Author Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately  (Read 660847 times)

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Offline Mario

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2675 on: January 12, 2009, 07:43:30 AM »
So if somebody do
Yeah rehashed clones of other big games sure are some of the best games around. Maybe just MAYBE the reason why they don't speak to anyone beyond the Sony faithful is they can find those experiences elsewhere in another (usually better) form? Also when did MGS become a Sony franchise? The only unique game in that list is LBP. What is funny even the "Sony faithful" aren't even buying games like Resistance 2!

Blah blah blah you hate Resistance 2...congratulations.  Maybe you're rather play Animal Crossing: City Folk, or Mario Super Sluggers, or the GameCube games that literally being re-released on the Wii, since they aren't rehashes whatsoever.

I guess that by default anybody that owns an HDTV - even people that don't play video games - are automatically hardcore and could never be casual.  Because HD anything is automatically hardcore.  Just making sure I know The Rules.
Difference is Animal Crossing and Mario Baseball were actually good games to begin with. Resistance is worse than Perfect Dark Zero. Motorstorm 2 is also the worst racing game i've ever played, but hey I haven't played the first. Sony are benefiting from less people playing these crappy games because then they'd have an even worse image and nobody would ever come back. Sony KNOWS they have **** all for games and their best bet is to advertise illusions and promises. They're smart, but this generation consumers are smarter.

Offline Deguello

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2676 on: January 12, 2009, 08:11:01 AM »
I'm now sure what you meant by "the best games you'll never hear about," Lindy.  I heard about most of those games plenty, particularly LittleBigPlanet, which was billed as a "Mario-Killer" or something.  Just because most of them flopped doesn't mean that didn't have any hype.
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Offline Pale

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2677 on: January 12, 2009, 10:18:35 AM »
I never once heard Little Big Planet called a "Mario Killer".

I will say it's the best 2D platform game I've played since Mario World though.  I'll never understand why you guys hate on the PS3 soooo much.  Obviously there are reasons to be frustrated, but it does have a TON of great games.  The only way I'd buy the "it has no games" argument is if its coming from a 360 owner, as many of the best games are multiplatform.
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2678 on: January 12, 2009, 10:43:30 AM »
Sony's "casual" efforts come off as one trick ponies, they lucked out and got a design that people liked and because they are in birdman mode (they treat the market as a black box and only see what inputs led to good outputs so they replicate those inputs while Nintendo learned the inner workings of the box and uses those to determine which inputs are likely to see favourable outputs) they just endlessly sequelize it by releasing tons of different data sets for these games. What's worse is that their current hardware policy goes into the completely opposite direction with better graphics, online play, computer-like stuff, etc. The PS3's hardware does nothing to improve these games, they don't need more hardware than the PS2 offered and they're "party" games (i.e. not really for people who play alone in their room) so online play isn't a major addition. The 100€ PS2 and the 400€ PS3 are competing with basically the same performance for these markets.

I think the PS3 hardware has helped a lot, maybe not in the ways you appreciate, but the experience of playing all of those games is expanded greatly by what the PS3 can do.  Resistance 2's multiplayer is crazy, 60-player deathmatches, 8-player co-op...if anything, the PS3's hardware allows the games to have more value for my gaming dollar.

Lindy, one difference is that Nintendo rehashes from their earlier consoles, while the same experience is available elsewhere that elsewhere is in the past. What I think GP accused R2, SOCOM, MS: PF and DF: U of is that they're too similar to experiences one can get on a current system with different games.

I still think rehashing is rehashing.  I think people are way to easy on what they'll accept from Nintendo; they give us the same things over and over like anybody else.  Of course, one of the reasons for Nintendo's recent success is that they've made all of their hardware proprietary so that their games literally can't be replicated elsewhere.

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Offline Deguello

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2679 on: January 12, 2009, 11:05:08 AM »
Quote
I think people are way to easy on what they'll accept from Nintendo; they give us the same things over and over like anybody else.

Except when they don't and we call them "non-games." :D
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2680 on: January 12, 2009, 12:25:53 PM »
I think the PS3 hardware has helped a lot, maybe not in the ways you appreciate, but the experience of playing all of those games is expanded greatly by what the PS3 can do.  Resistance 2's multiplayer is crazy, 60-player deathmatches, 8-player co-op...if anything, the PS3's hardware allows the games to have more value for my gaming dollar.

I was talking about games like Buzz and SingStar which are definitely aimed at different audiences than Resistance 2. Would you say the PS3 is improving these two games in any way the PS2 is not capable of?

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2681 on: January 12, 2009, 12:57:00 PM »
I don't know either one of those series from a hole in the ground so I couldn't tell you.  But my guess is that the PS3's integrated online capabilities greatly expand what they can do in terms of DLC and online functionality, and the Blu-Ray discs likely allow the audio/video to be a higher quality as well.  It expands what they can do with any concept, like the SNES hardware did with Super Mario World vs. Super Mario Bros. on the NES.  Changing control input isn't the only way that hardware can help a series innovate.  It's just the most obvious.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2682 on: January 12, 2009, 02:44:05 PM »
Changing control input isn't the only way that hardware can help a series innovate.  It's just the most obvious.

*looks at Sony's controller history*

I'd say it's the least obvious, actually.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2683 on: January 12, 2009, 03:12:48 PM »
Buzz and Singstar are quiz and karaoke games respectively. They're played in the same room so online play won't add much. DLC might be a possibility but I wonder how many casual gamers actually hook their console up to the internet. Both games have about as many releases as The Sims. Video improvements would be very minor and I don't think the DVD capacity is in any way limiting for a game that only shows quiz questions or plays music. I'm saying Sony's casual offerings will not be able to get the PS3 many sales especially when the PS2 costs 100€ and is more than adequate for these.

Speaking of controller innovation, both games come with special controllers (Buzz comes with four TV-style buzzers with buttons corresponding to the anser options underneath and Singstar uses a microphone).

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2684 on: January 12, 2009, 04:12:47 PM »
I don't know either one of those series from a hole in the ground so I couldn't tell you.  But my guess is that the PS3's integrated online capabilities greatly expand what they can do in terms of DLC and online functionality, and the Blu-Ray discs likely allow the audio/video to be a higher quality as well.  It expands what they can do with any concept, like the SNES hardware did with Super Mario World vs. Super Mario Bros. on the NES.  Changing control input isn't the only way that hardware can help a series innovate.  It's just the most obvious.

I have friends who only own a PS2 for these games, and, having played them myself, I can assure you that the PS3 isn't going to improve them in a way that matters to their fans.  Buzz in particular could theoretically benefit from the larger storage medium, but filling all that space would take costly effort that is demonstrably unnecessary based on the huge number of questions already in the DVD based version.  Higher quality isn't necessary in SingStar, since it's a game about hearing your own friends and family sing badly.  There's some opportunity for DLC, since we're talking about a market that has already proven itself willing to buy multiple editions of the same game at full retail price, but that's not going to be enough to convince anyone to upgrade.  Processing power is already wasted on the PS2.  Online play would be a joke.  These things are broken out at actual parties with snacks and everything, after all.

Even if Sony did everything else right, I still can't see the SingStar crowd upgrading until they can get a PS3 for $199 or less.  Even then, they'd only upgrade if they both still cared for the series and didn't hate Sony for "forcing" them to upgrade by not making PS2 games anymore.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2685 on: January 12, 2009, 04:48:21 PM »
And the lack of hardware pushing is a problem for Sony because they only have known inputs to go with, not the formula. They can only clone the games, not create a new one that could then be used as a killer app. Nintendo figured out how the formula works and can thus make new designs that can serve as a killer app because they are different from what other systems offer. That's why Sony's casual aspirations are doomed to failure.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2686 on: January 12, 2009, 09:51:00 PM »
Yawn.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2687 on: January 13, 2009, 08:11:48 AM »
Well, you're the one who ignored those casual series. Either way, yeah, saying these are the best games "you never heard about" is silly, these were some of the most hyped games for the system. The hype may have disappeared quickly after release but that doesn't mean they haven't been advertised everywhere. They aren't games noone knows about, everybody knows them. They just didn't care.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2688 on: January 13, 2009, 06:10:41 PM »
That's my point, all of those games were targeted solely at Sony diehards to begin with, so their buzz outside of that community is pretty much nil.  Their equivalent on the Wii would be World of Goo and Zack & Wiki, high-quality games that will never do huge mainstream numbers.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2690 on: January 16, 2009, 02:22:17 AM »
Have you guys seen the latest NPD sales data for the month of December? It seems the Playstation Familyâ„¢ has managed to outsell the Wii to become the market leader once again!

1020k PSP units + 726k PS3 units + 410k PS2 units = 2156k total!

The Wii managed to sell 2150k units, so it was a REALLY close race, but unfortunately for Nintendo, Sony is now the market leader once again. And as for the poor Xbox 360? Well, it is in a DISTANT third place with 1440K units.





Hmm, but on the other hand, let's remember Wal-Mart and other stores aren't included in NPD, so it may be possible the Wii actually did beat the Playstation Familyâ„¢ after all. I demand a recount!
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2691 on: January 16, 2009, 02:43:05 AM »
That's my point, all of those games were targeted solely at Sony diehards to begin with, so their buzz outside of that community is pretty much nil.  Their equivalent on the Wii would be World of Goo and Zack & Wiki, high-quality games that will never do huge mainstream numbers.

I don't understand, are you talking about Buzz and Singstar? Because these two franchises have reached outside the "Sony diehards," and Buzz has actually exhbited a very Brain Age like long-term sales cycle, at least from the Presentation I sat in on last GDC.

I understand that these two games aren't quite in tune with the PS3 hardware initiative, but it's still Sony's loss that it they haven't tied these successful brands to their console.
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Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2692 on: January 16, 2009, 08:42:40 AM »
Have you guys seen the latest NPD sales data for the month of December? It seems the Playstation Familyâ„¢ has managed to outsell the Wii to become the market leader once again!

1020k PSP units + 726k PS3 units + 410k PS2 units = 2156k total!

The Wii managed to sell 2150k units, so it was a REALLY close race, but unfortunately for Nintendo, Sony is now the market leader once again. And as for the poor Xbox 360? Well, it is in a DISTANT third place with 1440K units.





Hmm, but on the other hand, let's remember Wal-Mart and other stores aren't included in NPD, so it may be possible the Wii actually did beat the Playstation Familyâ„¢ after all. I demand a recount!

lulz

It was only a matter of time before they tried to skew numbers by throwing everything in a blender and calling it sales numbers.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2693 on: January 16, 2009, 11:34:34 AM »
Why kill tradition?
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2694 on: January 16, 2009, 06:59:35 PM »
Can we get the numbers of Wii and DS sales together...to see if the Nintendo family is still top dog.


Offline matt oz

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2695 on: January 17, 2009, 12:37:26 PM »
I really REALLY hate Sony and their fifty million SKUs and models for each system.

I recently bought Sony brand component cables for my PS2, since it now looks like crap on my LCD HDTV.  The box says "For Playstation 3 and Playstation 2."  Call me crazy, but I took this to mean that the cables worked on all PS2s.

Turns out, my PS2 is one of the very few older models that doesn't support progressive scan.  Are you kidding me?  What is with Sony and making so many goddamn iterations of their consoles that they have wildly different features?

Something like this would maybe make me consider purchasing a PS3, if they still even had backwards compatibility.  At least then I could get the 3 PS3 games that interest me and play my PS2 games upscaled.  But that's not even possible anymore.  WTF?

I purchased the cables online, so I'd have to pay shipping to return them, and I really hate doing that.  I e-mailed Sony, so I hope they can do something about it.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2696 on: January 19, 2009, 02:07:59 PM »
I e-mailed Sony, so I hope they can do something about it.

You can buy more of their ****.  Preferably the more expensive stuff.
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Offline matt oz

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2697 on: January 19, 2009, 02:17:40 PM »
I e-mailed Sony, so I hope they can do something about it.

You can buy more of their ****.  Preferably the more expensive stuff.

That's actually what they told me.  They said, "we would recommend trying another set of licensed component cables."  Why on earth would I spend more money on something that won't work?  I e-mailed them mainly to notify them that their packaging is misleading regarding older models of the PS2, and I also asked if they could refund my money (I don't expect them to, but I figured it was worth a try).  Now they've gone and tried to swindle me into buying more of their crap.  Unbelievable.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2698 on: January 22, 2009, 12:18:16 PM »
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Offline Arbok

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Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately
« Reply #2699 on: January 22, 2009, 03:32:15 PM »
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