Author Topic: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'  (Read 217364 times)

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Offline Urkel

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #375 on: July 09, 2009, 05:48:37 PM »
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #376 on: July 09, 2009, 07:19:02 PM »
He can kiss his professional journalism ass good bye.
No self respecting publication is gonna hire someone who is proven to be a  plagiarist, whether it is in print or online.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #377 on: July 10, 2009, 02:51:02 AM »
http://gparcade.blogfaction.com/article/109149/following-the-plagarism-issue/

pwnt

Now Water Warfare no longer has an aggregate score on Metacritic... maybe NWR wants to review it? Sure, it's not high art but it's near the top of the sales charts even in the US so maybe a review would be relevant.

Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #378 on: July 10, 2009, 03:09:54 AM »
Quote
He can kiss his professional journalism ass good bye.
No self respecting publication is gonna hire someone who is proven to be a  plagiarist, whether it is in print or online.

He could always get work at GoNintendo.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #379 on: July 10, 2009, 04:01:45 AM »
Quote
He can kiss his professional journalism ass good bye.
No self respecting publication is gonna hire someone who is proven to be a  plagiarist, whether it is in print or online.

He could always get work at GoNintendo.

Offline Djunknown

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #380 on: July 17, 2009, 02:17:47 AM »
Everyone loves lists.

A contrary opinion. Its a two-pager.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #381 on: July 17, 2009, 04:41:07 AM »
Great, use one article to generate traffic, then make a second article that's SPLIT to generate traffic AND help the first article genereate traffic.

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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #382 on: July 18, 2009, 02:00:49 PM »
Wow, this thread really has turned into the Hall of Shame you guys talked about.  I haven't checked it in a while, but the stuff you guys are finding here really blows my mind.  Rampant bias, reviewers not even playing games...it's terrible.

What I really dislike is that there are so many game reviewers out there that are openly hostile to the Wii platform, and to a lesser extent Nintendo in general.  When I looked around and read other reviews of The Conduit, I couldn't believe how many reviewers treated the task of reviewing the game as secondary, instead preferring to use the review as a soapbox to rant about how the Wii hardware is ill-equipped to handle first-person shooters.  I've always felt that it's a reviewer's responsibility to put any personal feelings about a platform, game, or developer aside and review the game vis-a-vis with the hardware that it appears on.  The kinds of questions that a review of a Wii game should be answering are:

How does this game stack up against the best on the Wii?
Did the developer use the Wii hardware and featureset to its full potential?
Are the Wii's controls used effectively and judiciously?
Is the game design sound?
Is the game fun?
Will this game please its intended audience?

These are the questions that every Wii review should be answering, not questions like, "How much better would this game be on 360, PS3, or PC?"  Readers don't want to know that, unless they're reading the review for the express purpose of reaffirming their inner conviction of Wii Inferiority.

No wonder gaming "journalism" gets a bad rap...most of it is amateur, biased, and irresponsible.
Jon Lindemann
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #383 on: July 18, 2009, 02:31:56 PM »
Wow, this thread really has turned into the Hall of Shame you guys talked about.  I haven't checked it in a while, but the stuff you guys are finding here really blows my mind.  Rampant bias, reviewers not even playing games...it's terrible.

What I really dislike is that there are so many game reviewers out there that are openly hostile to the Wii platform, and to a lesser extent Nintendo in general.  When I looked around and read other reviews of The Conduit, I couldn't believe how many reviewers treated the task of reviewing the game as secondary, instead preferring to use the review as a soapbox to rant about how the Wii hardware is ill-equipped to handle first-person shooters.  I've always felt that it's a reviewer's responsibility to put any personal feelings about a platform, game, or developer aside and review the game vis-a-vis with the hardware that it appears on.  The kinds of questions that a review of a Wii game should be answering are:

How does this game stack up against the best on the Wii?
Did the developer use the Wii hardware and featureset to its full potential?
Are the Wii's controls used effectively and judiciously?
Is the game design sound?
Is the game fun?
Will this game please its intended audience?

These are the questions that every Wii review should be answering, not questions like, "How much better would this game be on 360, PS3, or PC?"  Readers don't want to know that, unless they're reading the review for the express purpose of reaffirming their inner conviction of Wii Inferiority.

No wonder gaming "journalism" gets a bad rap...most of it is amateur, biased, and irresponsible.

The Conduit is an interesting one to note, because the developers themselves made the (ill-advised) decision to say their graphics engine can be compared to 360/PS3. My friend then said that "its fair to compare it to other platforms" because the developers opened the doors for that to happen. Plus on a platform that has, at most, a half dozen competent shooters it stands out considerably more than it would anywhere else.

He also just said that it set itself up for the criticism that came since because they claimed "Wii can do it too", when it well... can't. which is true.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 02:57:49 PM by Plugabugz »

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #384 on: July 18, 2009, 02:45:45 PM »
Lindy, you should do an editorial on this very topic. Take you time and make it quote worthy with lots of links to examples(wanna call out as many of these biased "journalist" as possible) and a link to this thread as inspiration.

You can use this article to help drive traffic to the site and spur discussion on the forums.
It can be known as one of the crowning achievements of you administration and a great push to NWR in general.

Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #385 on: July 18, 2009, 05:57:30 PM »
Quote
These are the questions that every Wii review should be answering, not questions like, "How much better would this game be on 360, PS3, or PC?"  Readers don't want to know that, unless they're reading the review for the express purpose of reaffirming their inner conviction of Wii Inferiority.

What's astonishing, Lindy, is that this only happened once before, when the NES came out.  Most computer game magazines railed against the NES and Super Mario Bros. and all that stuff.  They either ignored it completely or compared it to their graphically superior commodore 64 or Amiga games, like that was what people were reading computer magazines for.

It's also important to see when this didn't happen, and that's last generation when the PS2 was by far the weakest.  Graphical comparisons were verboten unless it was an all-encompassing review of three versions, and even then it was only to find the "superior" version of a game, which didn't fluctuate in score much.  Games liek State of Emergency which were ugly as all hell got high scores in graphics because "it's what the the PS2 could do."  And don't even say that "all three consoles were similar in power," because they obviously weren't. RE4 on the PS2 seemed to suffer no penalty after it's complete graphical and computational downgrade to the PS2.

Of course nowadays graphics are the only thing that matters, which is quite comical because this might be the last real graphical upgrade we'll ever see. (Nintendo's next may beat out PS3 and 360's gfx tech, if only because such tech is pretty cheap even now.)  What's funny about Conduit is that it somehow became a priority to review for some of these press outlets, even those most were cajoling the game beforehand.  My favorite was Gamepro's, which had to have been the most tortured review ever to write, because it had to simultaneously praise the game, praise the controls, damn the Wii and it's Wii-mote, praise the graphical design, slam the Wii's graphics, praise the developer, and damn Nintendo, all at the same time.

There just seems to be this feeling like they want Nintendo to fail, and this was reflected all throughout EGM's demise.  I mean, put yourself in a new customer's shoes.  You just got into games because of Wii.  You notice every magazine hates the Wii and you by proxy, whether they say you are a non-gaming grandma (which you either aren't, which makes you angry, or you are, which still makes you angry because they are using you as an insult) or belittle every game the Wii gets, even when it becomes the best-selling fighting game of all time or the best selling driving game of all time (SSBB and Mario Kart Wii).  Would you even care what they said about any Wii game after that?  Would you care what they thought?  Would you even shed a single solitary tear as their magazine goes out of business?

It's almost like the reviewers aren't even talking to you.   They are talking to either developers or their own little clique of Wii-haters.  And this shows in stunts like what EGM pulled with Endless Ocean.  I don't think games market journalism has ever been more tainted since the late-90's where they would essentially buy reviews with lavish trips to Jamaica and stuff.
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #386 on: July 18, 2009, 07:33:07 PM »
Lindy, you should do an editorial on this very topic. Take you time and make it quote worthy with lots of links to examples(wanna call out as many of these biased "journalist" as possible) and a link to this thread as inspiration.

I'm tempted to, but I don't want to get into any mud-slinging.  I don't know if I could write anything without coming off as sarcastically self-important.

Deg, I think that in some ways Nintendo is a victim of their own success in terms of how they are treated by the media.  They're so astoundingly successful that I think a good chunk of the media just gets sick of hearing about them and having to report on them, especially when Nintendo makes games that aren't catering to their tastes.  I also feel that there's a "Video gaming is my thing, I don't want to share it with anyone" mentality going on, with people wanting to portray themselves as more "real" by dissing Nintendo.  In other words, Nintendo has lost its "street cred".

I feel that if you're going to actually be a " professional gaming journalist", you actually have to BE a journalist, meaning that you should cover your material with as unbiased an eye as possible.  I mean, it's your JOB to do so, or at least it should be.  The problem with gaming journalism these days is that there's too much "gaming" and not enough "journalism".  Just because you know a lot about games doesn't mean you know anything about journalism, or how to do it right.

I wish that more people would take the journalism aspect more seriously.  I think guys like Chris Kohler and N'Gai Croal do it right, but a lot of people out there simply do it wrong.  You can't be an impartial observer if you're covertly rooting for one of the teams in the game.  You don't see ESPN's John Clayton saying, "The Bills are going to be pretty good this year.  Well, as good as you could expect from a crappy sports town like Buffalo.  If only they were owned by a real owner like Jerry Jones."  And that's because, as a journalist, his job is to put his personal interests aside.  I don't see how games journalism is any different...it should be afforded the same respect, honestly.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #387 on: July 18, 2009, 10:36:30 PM »
Quote
Deg, I think that in some ways Nintendo is a victim of their own success in terms of how they are treated by the media.  They're so astoundingly successful that I think a good chunk of the media just gets sick of hearing about them and having to report on them,

Well they can get jobs elsewhere, seriously.  Look, you don't get to choose what to report if you are a general video games publication.  You should report it all, period.  If anybody wants slanted hate they can go to a free blog instead of paying $20 a month for the privilege.

Quote
especially when Nintendo makes games that aren't catering to their tastes.

It doesn't matter what their tastes are.  It matters what the current readers and potential readers tastes are.  And when you are turning away a whole potential readership just to crack jokes with your ever-dwindling current readership, you asked for your own death.

Quote
I also feel that there's a "Video gaming is my thing, I don't want to share it with anyone" mentality going on, with people wanting to portray themselves as more "real" by dissing Nintendo.  In other words, Nintendo has lost its "street cred".

Yeah, represent!  Show that kiddie casual Nintendo who runs the LAN party in my parent's basement.  This has been going on ever since the late 90's.  They may just be bitter than their combined editorials for the better part of a decade did jack squat to deter Nintendo, especially when their chosen horse PSP got trampled by a another console that didn't have any "street cred," whatever the hell that means in regards to video games.  But if they don't want to be a part of video games journalism anymore, they are welcome to GTFO and let somebody who does care about covering the video games market and its defacto leaders, Nintendo.  It's only fair.  Nintendo fans had to put up with Playstation mania for a whole decade, all they while none of the media outlets had any problem with "being tired of Sony."  Whether because they are fanboys or Nintendo's not paying them bribes, they seem to have an issue now.  And they don't see how this hurts readership until they've been liquidated.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #388 on: July 19, 2009, 12:21:43 AM »
The reason videogame journalism has yet to grow up is because the industry itself is still pretty young. Yes its been around for ages, yes more people are gamers and yes videogames are slowly becoming more social. But the childish mentality is still around and its what prevents it from being professional.

Just look at E3, a TRADESHOW that seems to pander to the typical gamer despite being a show aimed at investors. Nintendo showed everything they have planned, including expanded audience games, and they get bashed for doing that. They get bashed for doing business at what is supposed to be a business thing.

Until the videogame industry realizes that they need to take themselves seriously videogame journalism will continue to be immature and unprofessional.
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #389 on: July 19, 2009, 12:27:17 AM »
Until the videogame industry realizes that they need to take themselves seriously videogame journalism will continue to be immature and unprofessional.

The internet will never be mature and proffessional.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #390 on: July 19, 2009, 12:30:41 AM »
Until the videogame industry realizes that they need to take themselves seriously videogame journalism will continue to be immature and unprofessional.

The internet will never be mature and proffessional.

This is a problem NOT exclusive to the internet. Sure it brought it to a bigger audience but elitism in videogames already existed back in the day. I certainly remember the claims that Gamepro loved Sony a little too much, and this was on their own reader's letters section.
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #391 on: July 19, 2009, 10:12:25 AM »
You can love whatever company you want.  Just don't let that color your news and reviews.
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Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #392 on: July 19, 2009, 01:26:54 PM »

The Conduit is an interesting one to note, because the developers themselves made the (ill-advised) decision to say their graphics engine can be compared to 360/PS3. My friend then said that "its fair to compare it to other platforms" because the developers opened the doors for that to happen.

I agree.  I was all for the Conduit when it was first announced, but over the course of the last 16 months I found myself growing more and more annoyed with the developers in listening to their ridiculous promises.  They brought the silly 360/PS3 comparisons upon themselves.  Hopefully it'll be a lesson learned, and they'll avoid claiming The Grinder will look just as good as Left 4 Dead.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #393 on: July 19, 2009, 02:10:42 PM »

The Conduit is an interesting one to note, because the developers themselves made the (ill-advised) decision to say their graphics engine can be compared to 360/PS3. My friend then said that "its fair to compare it to other platforms" because the developers opened the doors for that to happen.

I agree.  I was all for the Conduit when it was first announced, but over the course of the last 16 months I found myself growing more and more annoyed with the developers in listening to their ridiculous promises.  They brought the silly 360/PS3 comparisons upon themselves.  Hopefully it'll be a lesson learned, and they'll avoid claiming The Grinder will look just as good as Left 4 Dead.


First of all, HVS isn't the first and won't be the last developer that brags about their work. Nearly all developers brag about their game being "special" and tout amazing features. Sakurai did it with Brawl, Next Level Games did it with Punch Out Wii, Square Enix does it with nearly all of their games, so on and so forth.

Second, even if HVS did brought it upon themselves that still doesn't excused the biased, unfair reviews for The Conduit. The important thing is if the product is good regardless of personal preferences or what the developers have said or done.

If reviewers are going to bash a game simply because the developers have hyped it as the second coming of Jesus in digital form then they might as well underrate all games that received a big marketing push.
Pedro Hernandez
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #394 on: July 19, 2009, 02:20:32 PM »
Totally agree, Pap.  It's the reviewer's job to review the game outside of the hype machine to the best of their abilities.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #395 on: July 19, 2009, 02:29:56 PM »

The Conduit is an interesting one to note, because the developers themselves made the (ill-advised) decision to say their graphics engine can be compared to 360/PS3. My friend then said that "its fair to compare it to other platforms" because the developers opened the doors for that to happen.

I agree.  I was all for the Conduit when it was first announced, but over the course of the last 16 months I found myself growing more and more annoyed with the developers in listening to their ridiculous promises.  They brought the silly 360/PS3 comparisons upon themselves.  Hopefully it'll be a lesson learned, and they'll avoid claiming The Grinder will look just as good as Left 4 Dead.


First of all, HVS isn't the first and won't be the last developer that brags about their work. Nearly all developers brag about their game being "special" and tout amazing features. Sakurai did it with Brawl, Next Level Games did it with Punch Out Wii, Square Enix does it with nearly all of their games, so on and so forth.

Second, even if HVS did brought it upon themselves that still doesn't excused the biased, unfair reviews for The Conduit. The important thing is if the product is good regardless of personal preferences or what the developers have said or done.

If reviewers are going to bash a game simply because the developers have hyped it as the second coming of Jesus in digital form then they might as well underrate all games that received a big marketing push.

I haven't combed through too many Conduit reviews, but I haven't seen a lot of "bias" against its technical merits outside a little gentle ribbing over HV's hype machine.  The most I've seen is people mocking the generally PS2-quality environments after all the bragging High Voltage did about how great their game looked, which is not in the least unwarranted.  Most of the complaints I've seen with the game lie with the lackluster level design that leads to a boring singleplayer mode, something I can attest from my own experiences with the game is also not unwarranted.

I definitely agree, though, that games need to be judged on their own merits and not compared to others (especially on other platforms).  I don't dislike The Conduit because I can (and have) played better FPS games on my PS3 or PC, but because I genuinely did not find it fun to play among all the design flaws and bugs.  So long as reviewers can distinguish that from general Wii-bashing, that's fine with me.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 05:02:59 PM by broodwars »
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Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #396 on: July 19, 2009, 03:41:28 PM »

The Conduit is an interesting one to note, because the developers themselves made the (ill-advised) decision to say their graphics engine can be compared to 360/PS3. My friend then said that "its fair to compare it to other platforms" because the developers opened the doors for that to happen.

I agree.  I was all for the Conduit when it was first announced, but over the course of the last 16 months I found myself growing more and more annoyed with the developers in listening to their ridiculous promises.  They brought the silly 360/PS3 comparisons upon themselves.  Hopefully it'll be a lesson learned, and they'll avoid claiming The Grinder will look just as good as Left 4 Dead.


First of all, HVS isn't the first and won't be the last developer that brags about their work. Nearly all developers brag about their game being "special" and tout amazing features. Sakurai did it with Brawl, Next Level Games did it with Punch Out Wii, Square Enix does it with nearly all of their games, so on and so forth.

Second, even if HVS did brought it upon themselves that still doesn't excused the biased, unfair reviews for The Conduit. The important thing is if the product is good regardless of personal preferences or what the developers have said or done.

If reviewers are going to bash a game simply because the developers have hyped it as the second coming of Jesus in digital form then they might as well underrate all games that received a big marketing push.

All games are hyped but The Conduit was certainly uniquely overboard.  It was latched onto immediately by the hardcore and HVS went beyond the normal hype machine PR in pushing their game as a "360 experience with Wii controls".  As a consumer, I want the reviewer to communicate if HVS was able to live up to this seemingly impossible guarantee.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #397 on: July 19, 2009, 04:59:52 PM »

The Conduit is an interesting one to note, because the developers themselves made the (ill-advised) decision to say their graphics engine can be compared to 360/PS3. My friend then said that "its fair to compare it to other platforms" because the developers opened the doors for that to happen.

I agree.  I was all for the Conduit when it was first announced, but over the course of the last 16 months I found myself growing more and more annoyed with the developers in listening to their ridiculous promises.  They brought the silly 360/PS3 comparisons upon themselves.  Hopefully it'll be a lesson learned, and they'll avoid claiming The Grinder will look just as good as Left 4 Dead.


First of all, HVS isn't the first and won't be the last developer that brags about their work. Nearly all developers brag about their game being "special" and tout amazing features. Sakurai did it with Brawl, Next Level Games did it with Punch Out Wii, Square Enix does it with nearly all of their games, so on and so forth.

Second, even if HVS did brought it upon themselves that still doesn't excused the biased, unfair reviews for The Conduit. The important thing is if the product is good regardless of personal preferences or what the developers have said or done.

If reviewers are going to bash a game simply because the developers have hyped it as the second coming of Jesus in digital form then they might as well underrate all games that received a big marketing push.

All games are hyped but The Conduit was certainly uniquely overboard.  It was latched onto immediately by the hardcore and HVS went beyond the normal hype machine PR in pushing their game as a "360 experience with Wii controls".  As a consumer, I want the reviewer to communicate if HVS was able to live up to this seemingly impossible guarantee.

So that is why it has a 7/10 average of metacritic? OMGZ overhyped.
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Offline D_Average

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #398 on: July 19, 2009, 05:21:42 PM »

The Conduit is an interesting one to note, because the developers themselves made the (ill-advised) decision to say their graphics engine can be compared to 360/PS3. My friend then said that "its fair to compare it to other platforms" because the developers opened the doors for that to happen.

I agree.  I was all for the Conduit when it was first announced, but over the course of the last 16 months I found myself growing more and more annoyed with the developers in listening to their ridiculous promises.  They brought the silly 360/PS3 comparisons upon themselves.  Hopefully it'll be a lesson learned, and they'll avoid claiming The Grinder will look just as good as Left 4 Dead.


First of all, HVS isn't the first and won't be the last developer that brags about their work. Nearly all developers brag about their game being "special" and tout amazing features. Sakurai did it with Brawl, Next Level Games did it with Punch Out Wii, Square Enix does it with nearly all of their games, so on and so forth.

Second, even if HVS did brought it upon themselves that still doesn't excused the biased, unfair reviews for The Conduit. The important thing is if the product is good regardless of personal preferences or what the developers have said or done.

If reviewers are going to bash a game simply because the developers have hyped it as the second coming of Jesus in digital form then they might as well underrate all games that received a big marketing push.

All games are hyped but The Conduit was certainly uniquely overboard.  It was latched onto immediately by the hardcore and HVS went beyond the normal hype machine PR in pushing their game as a "360 experience with Wii controls".  As a consumer, I want the reviewer to communicate if HVS was able to live up to this seemingly impossible guarantee.

So that is why it has a 7/10 average of metacritic? OMGZ overhyped.

Of course not.  It has a 7/10 average due to bland level/enemy design yet solid Wii controls.  Good, but not great.
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #399 on: July 19, 2009, 06:33:46 PM »
The posts that followed mine are interesting. So i'm gonna make a spin-off thread.