Author Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread  (Read 664070 times)

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Offline Oedo

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1175 on: April 30, 2016, 01:40:37 AM »
You do need games like Metroid as part of a truly stellar lineup and Nintendo knows this. I seriously doubt they backed something like Bayonetta 2 because they thought it was going to move a ton of units. Nintendo backed it because the Wii U's library needed diversity.

Looking at software sales isn't a good way to evaluate the importance or need for a game in general. Donkey Kong Country outsold Xenoblade Chronicles X, but I'd say the latter is a much more important game for Nintendo when it comes to making their platform appealing. Something like Metroid or Xenoblade Chronicles X might sell to a smaller crowd, but it has a significant impact on their purchasing decision when it comes to actually getting the console.

Offline Adrock

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1176 on: April 30, 2016, 02:30:22 AM »
There are other priorities. Metroid is a game Nintendo should release when it already has a stellar lineup.
Ehh, that still stands in regards to your response.

Software sales are a good indicator of whether a company should prioritize a specific series or type of game. Metroid is a great supplementary title. However, Nintendo needs something to supplement first. Metroid will always have its dedicated fanbase, but that audience, unfortunately, isn't big enough to be worth catering to first or even second. If Nintendo wants to diversify its lineup, it needs games a broader group of people care about to actually buy its console. Then, it can concern itself with games like Metroid, Bayonetta, Xenoblade etc.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1177 on: April 30, 2016, 07:25:52 AM »
Metroid is going to do differently on different platforms. If NX is as powerful as rumored then I want to see what new Metroid looks like. Obviously, the biggest problem with Nintendo is their level of planning. They plan systems well, they just don't have much of an agenda on what games they want to make. They may not have even started on a Metroid game.

If I were launching NX I'd have started on the F-Zero, and Metroid games two or three years ago.

There is some discussion on whether or not sales are a good indicator of whether or not a company should make a game. They are not. Sometimes the fanbase of a franchise exceeds the sales. I rented a bunch of games I never bought. I borrowed games. I inherited hand-me-downs. I got some games given to me. I know a bunch of people who first played all the snes games on an emulator before turning around and buying it on wii and wii u for laziness convenience. Sometimes the initial sales of a franchise are low and jump up considerably when the technology has matured enough to where they become mega hits. Look at gta or metal gear, both franchises were moderate successes initially, but then became massive hits when they became 3d.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1178 on: April 30, 2016, 12:41:43 PM »
There is some discussion on whether or not sales are a good indicator of whether or not a company should make a game. They are not. Sometimes the fanbase of a franchise exceeds the sales.
Mmmmmmyeah? No. Sales seem to be the driving philosophy behind everything. Metroid doesn't sell. New Super Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong Country do. Pokemon does.

I remember how Platinum fans raged at the inhumanity of Bayonetta 2 being a Wii U exclusive. I don't think it won over anyone that caused a significant boost in the Wii U's sales. Just because people are loud and obnoxious doesn't mean things will change or improve. Look at me with Paper Mario.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1179 on: April 30, 2016, 02:49:19 PM »
There is some discussion on whether or not sales are a good indicator of whether or not a company should make a game.
Ladies and gentleman, here's an example of how to completely misconstrue someone's point.

I'm going to stop you right there, Perm. Let's go back to what I specifically said.
Software sales are a good indicator of whether a company should prioritize a specific series or type of game.
Making something and prioritizing it are entirely different things. The former is about that thing's existence, the latter is about when that thing should exist. A niche game with a small but loud fanbase has no business being a priority, especially for a company like Nintendo that is coming off its weakest home console. Metroid can't carry a holiday season, doesn't sell, and generally doesn't appeal to anyone except its own fanbase. It isn't the kind of series Nintendo should try to sell a console with. Metroid isn't an appetizer; it isn't the first thing people generally eat at a restaurant. And it sure as hell isn't the meal they went out for. If anything, it's the dessert most people can talk themselves into buying after getting their fill. For some, they go out specifically for the dessert, and that's great for them, but they're the outliers.

And again, Metroid is my favorite series. Of course, I'd want a new game. However, what I want and what I think should happen are entirely different things. Metroid isn't going to help Nintendo sell NX in any significant way. I'd rather wait for a new Metroid game if it means Nintendo gets off to a much better start in part because Retro Studios worked on the next Splatoon-esque success instead. Release a new Metroid when NX is rolling. And if it doesn't and Nintendo doubles down on its own fans again, release it then. Launch, near launch, or even the first year is really not the time for it.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 07:21:53 PM by Adrock »

Offline Oedo

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1180 on: April 30, 2016, 03:11:03 PM »
There are other priorities. Metroid is a game Nintendo should release when it already has a stellar lineup.
Ehh, that still stands in regards to your response.

Software sales are a good indicator of whether a company should prioritize a specific series or type of game. Metroid is a great supplementary title. However, Nintendo needs something to supplement first. Metroid will always have its dedicated fanbase, but that audience, unfortunately, isn't big enough to be worth catering to first or even second. If Nintendo wants to diversify its lineup, it needs games a broader group of people care about to actually buy its console. Then, it can concern itself with games like Metroid, Bayonetta, Xenoblade etc.

That seems backwards to me. If you want a broader group of people to buy your console, you need a diverse lineup (or at least the promise of one) first. When you devote a lot of internal resources to putting out New Super Mario Bros. U, New Super Luigi U, and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze within the first 1.5 years of your console's life, you're catering to the same audience over and over again. I'm not trying to say that Metroid should be a priority over New Super Mario Bros. U. It's blatantly clear which one of those should come first. I'm saying Metroid (or something like it) should be a priority over an expansion to NSMBU, or another 2D platformer from one of your best studios, even if these two things outsell Metroid on a software basis.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1181 on: April 30, 2016, 03:58:19 PM »
Metroid is great, Nintendo needs to make Metroid games. The gamepad really is a gimmick, but it could have been put to good use in a new Metroid Prime game.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1182 on: April 30, 2016, 07:45:59 PM »
That seems backwards to me. If you want a broader group of people to buy your console, you need a diverse lineup (or at least the promise of one) first. When you devote a lot of internal resources to putting out New Super Mario Bros. U, New Super Luigi U, and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze within the first 1.5 years of your console's life, you're catering to the same audience over and over again. I'm not trying to say that Metroid should be a priority over New Super Mario Bros. U. It's blatantly clear which one of those should come first. I'm saying Metroid (or something like it) should be a priority over an expansion to NSMBU, or another 2D platformer from one of your best studios, even if these two things outsell Metroid on a software basis.
New Super Luigi U isn't a good example considering it was made by a small team in under a year using another game's engine. It wasn't taking up too many resources, and Wii U's big problem at the time was lack of any content. I thought it was pretty obvious why Nintendo fast-tracked that game. It needed something out to release. Had Nintendo forced the game onto Retro Studios or something, I could see where you're coming from.

Additionally, I'm not sure why you're bringing up Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. This entire arm of the discussion was started from a rumor that Retro Studios isn't working on either Metroid or Donkey Kong. If true, I think that's a great thing as it shouldn't be working on either IP. As a Metroid fan, I'd be excited if Retro Studios was working on Metroid again, but I can, at the same time, state that Metroid is not the kind of game Nintendo needs right now, particularly from one of its best teams. Metroid wouldn't be a waste of Retro Studios' talent. Rather, it could be a potential missed opportunity to strike gold. We all know what to expect from Metroid. Despite Nintendo's best efforts, Metroid isn't a heavy hitter for the company, and it wouldn't bring anyone new to NX which is the opposite of what Nintendo should be prioritizing. Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon would largely take care of the Nintendo crowd at or around launch. Unless Retro Studios is working on one of those three, it should be working on something new to diversify the lineup and hopefully draw people to NX.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 09:56:52 PM by Adrock »

Offline Soren

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1183 on: April 30, 2016, 08:58:40 PM »
Agreed. Ultimately I need to see something new coming out of Retro Studios. They perfected the Metroid first person experience and delivered the best platformer on Wii U, bar none. This probably means Nintendo doesn't know what to do with Metroid right now, but I'm ok with that for the reasons Adcock stated above.
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Offline Oedo

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1184 on: May 01, 2016, 01:04:16 AM »
I'm not vehemently arguing for Retro to make Metroid specifically. My point is that saying it doesn't sell a lot (and let's not overstate that either; even if it isn't on par with Nintendo's A-tier releases, implying that the Prime games did not sell at all is unfair) isn't a good reason to say that games like Metroid aren't important or that they shouldn't be a priority over games that sell better. That's why I bring up DKC:TF. I'm sure it would have outsold Metroid on the Wii U, but it was selling to people who already bought the system for NSMBU. If you're trying to prioritize which one comes first, looking at software sales is misleading in that instance.

If Retro is making a new IP which fills a space that Nintendo's first party lineup usually doesn't, that's great. That's exactly what they need to do. But if we go by the logic that software sales should prioritize which kinds of games get made, that new IP should be a 2D platformer or a kart racer, and that's the part I don't agree with. Nintendo is most likely doing a 2D platformer and they're sure as heck doing another Mario Kart. So let Retro do something completely different; software sales potential alone shouldn't dictate the direction they go in.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1185 on: May 01, 2016, 01:34:07 AM »
*insert pro-Metroid post*
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1186 on: May 01, 2016, 01:51:34 AM »
*Insert aggressively anti-Metroid sentiment*
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Offline Enner

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1187 on: May 01, 2016, 03:42:02 AM »
I hope Retro's game is Raven Blade. Meaning, I would love to see an RPG out of them.

Or an American Football game. That would be interesting.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1188 on: May 01, 2016, 12:54:54 PM »
With Retro doing a new thing, I guess we can just safely assume one of the EADs is making New Super Metroid.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1189 on: May 01, 2016, 01:39:04 PM »
I think it would be best for Nintendo to find Metroid's equivalent to Grezzo. Nintendo trusts Grezzo with Zelda who in turn do an admirable job. For a 2D Metroid, there are any number of companies that would jump at the chance at working on the series. Super Metroid's influence is found in dozens of games over 20 years later. The trick is finding the right team. I think Super Metroid is just about perfect, but in the interest of following Grezzo's path, maybe a remake of Super Metroid would be a good test to see if a team has what it takes to inherit the 2D games.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1190 on: May 01, 2016, 01:40:55 PM »
I hope Retro's game is Raven Blade. Meaning, I would love to see an RPG out of them.

Or an American Football game. That would be interesting.
Get ready for Mario Gridiron Football!

With RPG elements!

Offline Mop it up

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1191 on: May 01, 2016, 01:42:10 PM »
maybe a remake of Super Metroid would be a good test to see if a team has what it takes to inherit the 2D games.
I don't think that game needs to be remade. How about a remake of Metroid II instead? That one desperately needs it.

Whoops, I meant to hit the modify button.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 01:59:23 PM by Mop it up »

Offline Adrock

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1192 on: May 01, 2016, 03:02:04 PM »
I don't think that game needs to be remade. How about a remake of Metroid II instead? That one desperately needs it.
That's exactly why I think it should be Super Metroid. Grezzo got its feet wet with Zelda by mostly redoing textures and the inventory system in Ocarina of Time. Super Metroid's visuals mostly hold up. Like I said, the game is just about perfect. The only thing I'd change is the somewhat clunky item-switching. A graphics update would be expected if Nintendo is going to go back to the game at all.

For a Metroid II: Return of Samus remake, I'd rather see a Metroid: Zero Mission-esque overhaul in which the team just started over. The game hasn't aged well; it's really not that good. Hand the keys over once they handle updating a much better game.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1193 on: May 01, 2016, 03:43:34 PM »
That's exactly why I think it should be Super Metroid. Grezzo got its feet wet with Zelda by mostly redoing textures and the inventory system in Ocarina of Time. Super Metroid's visuals mostly hold up. Like I said, the game is just about perfect. The only thing I'd change is the somewhat clunky item-switching. A graphics update would be expected if Nintendo is going to go back to the game at all.
I don't think someone would need to start that small, but that's just me.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1194 on: May 01, 2016, 03:47:45 PM »
I think remaking Super is a dumb idea. What needs updating? Nothing.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1195 on: May 01, 2016, 04:59:47 PM »
I don't think someone would need to start that small, but that's just me.
Grezzo did.
I think remaking Super is a dumb idea. What needs updating? Nothing.
It was just a suggestion. You can disagree without flat-out calling it dumb, but sure. I'd update the item-switching. To each his own.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1196 on: May 01, 2016, 05:27:19 PM »
I don't think someone would need to start that small, but that's just me.
Grezzo did.
I'm aware they did, but I don't think a company (or them) needs to. Just my opinion, man.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1197 on: May 01, 2016, 05:31:58 PM »
I think remaking Super is a dumb idea. What needs updating? Nothing.

Super Metroid is a great game, but there are definitely things about it that I'd change. As Adrock mentioned, the item switching mechanic is just atrocious. I'd also overhaul the platforming mechanics, in particular the terrible implementation of wall jumping. At the same time, outside of a few aspects of the story, Zero Mission's already effectively a remake of Super Metroid with a lot of these improvements.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (#Team2017 Wins Again!)
« Reply #1198 on: May 01, 2016, 06:46:33 PM »
I'm aware they did, but I don't think a company (or them) needs to. Just my opinion, man.
Understood. I was only pointing out that it worked before. If Nintendo is being cautious (and it usually is), testing a small, third party development team with an arguably easy remake before handing them the keys to the entire IP isn't a bad plan. I'd certainly take a remake that rectifies Super Metroid's weird choices then a remake of Metroid II: Return of Samus that actually makes it a good game. By then, we'd definitely have a developer who "gets it." I mean, if that team can skip those steps, also awesome.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Team. Buttons. For. Life.)
« Reply #1199 on: May 01, 2016, 06:48:14 PM »
I'd like a Metroid II remake, but I don't think a Super Metroid remake is a bad idea.  MII needs it A LOT more.  That game was made with the caveat that the sprites wouldn't quite fit right.  There's a great game under there, but it's just buried under the decision to put it on the GB.
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