Author Topic: Kickstarter WiiU game Thread. Yooka-Laylee. Reven. Hive Jump. Hex Heroes.  (Read 18558 times)

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Offline Evan_B

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I missed a few of those, but I really appreciate the hard work of the Soul Saga dev even if he's taking forever with development.

As for Cosmic Star Heroine, that is again from a dev I trust and enjoy. There are tons of novel ideas put out on Kickstarter but unless there is substance in what they're showing or they're a name I trust I would rather wait for the game to show up finished and pay then.
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Offline Adrock

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I feel much the same way. I've supported a few Kickstarter projects, but only one game: Shantae: Half-Genie Hero. I probably could have waited to buy it upon release, but having followed the character and the company for so long, I appreciate how long Wayforward has been trying to support Shantae and I wanted to help the team. Having played a Shantae game in the past, I considered that a proof of concept. I know it isn't the same thing. I just have very little doubt the game won't be familiar. And that's all I want from the project. I want a new Shantae game with HD sprites.

I have similar feelings toward Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night though I haven't committed to backing the project. Proof of concept? There are six of them. This game is Castlevania in all but name only. Odd as it sounds, I'd be more skeptical if IGA was pitching a non-Metroidvania game. He has made a career of making the same kind of game. As far as Castlevania is concerned, he's only struggled when stepping away from the formula (e.g. Lament of Innocence, The Dracula X Chronicles). I'm interested because he's pitching the only type of game he's excelled at making. Still, the Kickstarter is meant to show interest in the project as IGA has a very vague "backing investment." Additionally, the project has crushed its initial goal. The team doesn't need my money, but I don't think that's the right attitude to have.

Offline Luigi Dude

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On the one had I'm interested in backing the game but I kind of worry about the quality of this one since IGA hasn't made a Castlevania like this in over 7 years.  Not only that but it's not like the quality of his previous games all remained at a consistent level.  Since IGA might be kind of rusty, Bloodstained could end up being on the lower end of this Castlevania developed games.  I mean, if the game is Harmony of Dissonance or Portrait of Ruin level quality, I'll still find enjoyment in it but it's not something I feel like spending money to fund.
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Offline broodwars

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I have similar feelings toward Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night though I haven't committed to backing the project. Proof of concept? There are six of them. This game is Castlevania in all but name only.

No, I'm not giving him that. He hasn't made a game in ages, when he did make those games it was largely with recycled assets as old as Rondo of Blood, and it was with an entirely different development team. Plus, the gaming landscape since his last copy & pasted Castlevania game has greatly changed: games of this style are now incredibly common in the Indie scene, so what's Bloodstained going to do that I can't get from games already on the market? How is it going to stand out, aside from having the name of a developer associated with regurgitated sequels? Hence why I want to see proof of concept footage of the actual game he wants to make. Instead, his entire Kickstarter pitch is focused on his legacy, not what he's going to be doing for us lately. It's smoke & mirrors of the highest caliber.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 03:49:58 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Spak-Spang

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I have similar feelings toward Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night though I haven't committed to backing the project. Proof of concept? There are six of them. This game is Castlevania in all but name only.

No, I'm not giving him that. He hasn't made a game in ages, when he did make those games it was largely with recycled assets as old as Rondo of Blood, and it was with an entirely different development team. Plus, the gaming landscape since his last copy & pasted Castlevania game has greatly changed: games of this style are now incredibly common in the Indie scene, so what's Bloodstained going to do that I can't get from games already on the market? How is it going to stand out, aside from having the name of a developer associated with regurgitated sequels? Hence why I want to see proof of concept footage of the actual game he wants to make. Instead, his entire Kickstarter pitch is focused on his legacy, not what he's going to be doing for us lately. It's smoke & mirrors of the highest caliber.

I agree with this.  If you are going to come to fans and ask for money, you should have at least a demo or mock up video showing proof of concept of the game you are asking to make.  You need to have put enough effort and sweat (and money) into the project to show here is some prototype animation, and concept art, and level design.  Here is the new hook or gimmick that makes MY game different.  If you don't do at least that, then you can't be trusted.  And even if you do that (bare minimum) in my book...then you don't get money. 

The last two kickstarters I supported were for Pinball Arcade to get a cool board.  There kickstarter explained why they needed the money and oh their game was already released as a proof of concept.  And Shovel Knight, which had a video that showed assets and how the game should/could play. 

Offline Evan_B

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Bloodstained aside, I'll admit it has been pretty cool to see Kickstarted games pop up on the eShop and elsewhere. The only problem is, I've never really felt satisfied by one of them.

I've played The Fall and Shovel Knight, and while Shovel Knight is at least a well-presented game with minor flaws, The Fall was so painfully mediocre that I felt pretty annoyed by the time I finished it and the developers urged me to look forward to the next part of the trilogy. There's a few other instances I could note, but I guess I wanted to say that even the best of the Kickstarted games I've played (Shovel Knight) still felt dissatisfying to me in a lot of ways.
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Offline Adrock

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No, I'm not giving him that. He hasn't made a game in ages, when he did make those games it was largely with recycled assets as old as Rondo of Blood, and it was with an entirely different development team. Plus, the gaming landscape since his last copy & pasted Castlevania game has greatly changed: games of this style are now incredibly common in the Indie scene, so what's Bloodstained going to do that I can't get from games already on the market? How is it going to stand out, aside from having the name of a developer associated with regurgitated sequels? Hence why I want to see proof of concept footage of the actual game he wants to make. Instead, his entire Kickstarter pitch is focused on his legacy, not what he's going to be doing for us lately. It's smoke & mirrors of the highest caliber.
It sounds like your issue is that you didn't like IGA's Castlevania games to begin with (or at least the later ones) which is your right. I'm not arguing that. However, it doesn't seem like a proof of concept would have changed your mind anyway. This project is, for all intents and purposes, the Castlevania game Konami refuses to make because "mobile is the future" or some other such nonsense. It isn't even continuing the Lords of Shadow reboot (though I'm glad since the last installment was subpar). As previously stated, I haven't backed the project yet. If I decide to, I, personally, don't need a proof of concept. I'm not an IGA super-fan, but I've played his games. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect. It kind of seems like you do too which is what makes this unappealing. What makes this stand out? Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but what I really want is Castlevania. I can't get that anymore so this is probably as close as I'm going to get.

Offline broodwars

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It sounds like your issue is that you didn't like IGA's Castlevania games to begin with (or at least the later ones) which is your right. I'm not arguing that.

I liked IGA's Castlevania games just fine at first...until it became very clear that they were all the same game (namely Symphony of the Night, a game I find rather overrated anyway) with minor differences. But Aria of Sorrow & Dawn of Sorrow are classics. Hell, I even liked Portrait of Ruin for the way it tried to break out of the mold & try something new. Order of Ecclesia was offensive, though, for what it did to what was allegedly a "strong female character".

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I have a pretty good idea of what to expect. It kind of seems like you do too which is what makes this unappealing. What makes this stand out? Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but what I really want is Castlevania. I can't get that anymore so this is probably as close as I'm going to get.

My issue with Igarashi is that he's always struck me as an incredibly lazy developer. All his Castlevania games are permutations on the same damn formula, and most of those use stock sprites from far older Castlevania games.  So yeah, when it comes time to go to the internet and beg people for money because no one wants to give you a job (because no one thinks you're reliable or noteworthy), I expect to see some goddamn effort. Instead, all his Kickstarter is is "hey, look at me! I was relevant once! Give me money because of that, and because **** KONAMI!!" He even has the sheer ego to call the game an "Igavania", as if he and he alone were creative enough to add RPG elements to the Metroid formula.

So yeah, I don't like the guy, I don't think he belongs on Kickstarter, and I don't think he's justified his project's existence. I'm inclined to be sympathetic towards his project because I'm also of a "**** KONAMI" mindset due to how they gutted Silent Hills, but he has to earn that money and so far he's skated along by doing very little. It's a small amount of flash and name recognition trying to divert from the fact that there is no substance. He has nothing to show after all these years of working on nothing since leaving Konami. If you ran a video game publisher, and he walked into your conference room with that as his pitch presentation, would YOU give him money? I sure wouldn't. Yooka-Laylee's? I'd consider it.

And, incidentally, Bloodborne is a far better Castlevania game than most of Igarashi's games. There, I said it.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 01:39:10 AM by broodwars »
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Offline Evan_B

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Oh, I think he definitely deserves to be on Kickstarter. The majority of projects there are filled with empty promises and claims.

What disappoints me about this and Mighty Number 9 is that there's no promise of hope of future. IGA doesn't want to assemble a studio, he wants to work with Inti Creates. At least with Shovel Knight and Half-Genie Hero there is pedigree and will be an example of the studio's efforts in the future. One I the reasons I was skeptical of that project featuring the FFTactics director was because the rest of the team was a group of mobile Devs with no experience making a title in that vein. Hey, it still got funded, so we'll have to wait and see, right? Another project was the slightly embarrassing Cult County fiasco- Renegade Kid isn't a prolific or beloved enough dev to have asked for the amount of money they did, which was, in Watsham's opinion, a realistic amount for the game they hoped to make. It even had a proof of concept. Just shows what realism actually gets you on Kickstarter.
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Offline Evan_B

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Ah, see, you've lost me on the Bloodborne thing.
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Offline broodwars

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Ah, see, you've lost me on the Bloodborne thing.

It's a gothic-style character action game where you can run around with a chain whip killing ghouls and vampires with a focus on deliberate action, and the developers show no mercy on difficulty. You have the ability to level-up your stats & acquire bigger & better gear. It's pretty much a 3D IGA-style Castlevania game...only he never figured out how to make that work in 3D.
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Offline Evan_B

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I know what Bloodborne is, I just think that's not really applicable. IGA probably didn't want to make a 3D Metroidvania. Then he'd have to worry about making new art assets.

That's a major deal with this game, too. But they'll only be seen from one angle.
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Offline broodwars

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I know what Bloodborne is, I just think that's not really applicable. IGA probably didn't want to make a 3D Metroidvania. Then he'd have to worry about making new art assets.

You'd think so, but he tried. Twice.

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Offline Evan_B

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Huh. My apologies.
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Offline Adrock

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Jebus, broodwars, put down the hatchet. You're so anti-IGA that you're altering the narrative just to hate on the guy.
My issue with Igarashi is that he's always struck me as an incredibly lazy developer. All his Castlevania games are permutations on the same damn formula, and most of those use stock sprites from far older Castlevania games.
Not sure it's fair to place the blame entirely on IGA. Konami set the budget. Hindsight is 20/20. Look at what Konami is doing today.
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So yeah, when it comes time to go to the internet and beg people for money because no one wants to give you a job (because no one thinks you're reliable or noteworthy), I expect to see some goddamn effort. Instead, all his Kickstarter is is "hey, look at me! I was relevant once! Give me money because of that, and because **** KONAMI!!" He even has the sheer ego to call the game an "Igavania", as if he and he alone were creative enough to add RPG elements to the Metroid formula.
He's admitted to having trouble finding a publisher though this seems to be due to lack of interest in the project rather than unreliability. He made moderate hits for Konami on a limited budget and short deadlines. And I wouldn't say he's necessarily begging for money on the Internet as that sounds worse than it actually is. From a Gamasutra interview:
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"All I can say right now is that after over a year of talking with just about every publisher out there, I was able to secure funding for about 90 percent of the game with the condition that I prove the market still wants an Igavania game."
Kickstarter is a really good asset for what he needed to do. The reception has been astounding. People want this game.

And from the same interview regarding "Igavania"
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"If we felt it would have been okay with Nintendo to use a name like "Metroidvania" in an official capacity like this, we probably would have. But we wanted to be sure to respect them. When building out the campaign, we needed a new genre name that would help describe this specific type of game, and one of the team members suggested "Igavania." I worried it sounded vain, but assumed it was a temporary placeholder and didn't pay much mind. So yes, now I feel quite a bit of pressure"
My guess is that he didn't want to ruffle any feathers at Nintendo (who may even have turned down the project when IGA was searching for a publisher) since the game, rightfully from a business perspective, was initially skipping Wii U.
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He has nothing to show after all these years of working on nothing since leaving Konami.
Years? He left Konami last year. His last game was released in 2011 (which I don't really think is that long ago). Eventually, Konami began shifting toward mobile games. He joined a mobile team and it didn't work out. From a Wired interview:
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“Two, maybe three years ago, Konami had slowly shifted its culture, as well as its business model. They started to have major success in the mobile space, and that was starting to be seen by the company as the future.â€

Offline Evan_B

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Adrock- cutting through the gossip with clear cut FACTS.

I guess.
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Offline Triforce Hermit

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Instead, all his Kickstarter is is "hey, look at me! I was relevant once! Give me money because of that, and because **** KONAMI!!"
It worked for Keiji Infanue with Capcom
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Instead, all his Kickstarter is is "hey, look at me! I was relevant once! Give me money because of that, and because **** KONAMI!!"
It worked for Keiji Infanue with Capcom

And the Yooka Laylee guys, and the guy doing Star Citizen, and a ton of others.

"Hey, remember that old thing I/we did? Give me/us some money so we can make a new one of those" describes like half the games on Kickstarter.
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Offline Triforce Hermit

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I was referring more to "Y'know how [insert company here] isn't making [insert game franchise here] anymore and how I was so good at making it? Well throw money at me and I'll make a new game as a big middle finger to [insert company here]." Which is basically how I saw Mighty Number 9. And that seems to be what Igarashi is doing.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Yes, and Mighty Number 9 looks terrible.  It looks like it is progressing in all the wrong ways.  Art Direction, play mechanics, animation and movement...everything looks off.

I hope the game turns around though...I just don't think it will.  These crowd source games are never getting enough money and time to make a great game with the polish a publisher would expect from their games. 

Offline Evan_B

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Mighty Number 9 does look quite lackluster. That entire scheme jumped the shark the minute Inafune went back to Kickstarter for DLC money.
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Offline azeke

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That castlevania nostalgia pandering game seems like it was picked up by a big publisher.

Each time i see a kickstarter game taken by publisher i shake my head. Kickstarter was supposed to be how you eschew publishers, not attract them by securing all the funding, so that they can get a game by spending literally nothing on it.
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Offline Evan_B

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I think it's important to remember this game would be 90% funded if IGA even proved there was interest in the genre. So probably a ridiculous amount of the Kickstarter is going to go towards polishing the project and hopefully reaching the stretch goals.
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Offline Shaymin

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To be fair, Deep Silver isn't what I'd call a "big publisher".
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Offline Evan_B

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Wii U stretch goal reached. Physical discs, too.

Whoo.
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