Author Topic: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?  (Read 40803 times)

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Offline Evan_B

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #125 on: June 09, 2015, 08:57:05 AM »
Asynchronous multiplayer was really quite amazing, in my opinion. I was kinda hoping for a Nintendo Land 2.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #126 on: June 09, 2015, 12:56:59 PM »
Yes, I understand gaming budgets have gotten higher, and with production values basically making interactive movies games are incredibly expensive to make.  But you know what...movies are incredibly expensive to make too...and movies often have higher budget.  If people had to pay $20-30 dollars to see a movie they would stop going.  There is a point where gaming becomes too costly, and paying $60.00 for a single game is that rate for me.  I just won't do it anymore.  The sweet spot is where portable gaming was/is with the DS/3DS.  $29.99-39.99 is a fair price for a full game.  I don't mind DLC and additional content costing more, if the original price includes enough game to justify the price. 

Movies can charge less and cost more to make because they're passive entertainment and thus much more accessible.  Videogames simply cannot have the same level of mass market appeal to match those figures.

While I get that Nintendo may want to lower the cost of game development the problem is that the genie has been let out of the bottle and you can't put it back in.  The other guys have these big blockbusters and it all costs around the same to us consumers so why should we settle for less?  Nintendo is still charging the same price for console games that look last gen.  The difference between graphics these days is not as great as it was between generations in the past but still.  Nintendo's is charging $60 for games that look like titles that are now quite a few years old and go for $30 in cheap bins.  They launched with NSMB U which had 1988 style gameplay with 2006 graphics being sold for full price on a brand new console in 2012.  No wonder no one bought it.

Nintendo acts like Sony and Microsoft aren't their competition, like Nintendo is there own different thing.  That might be the goal but it's not reality.  The target audience has too much crossover so a potential Nintendo customer sees a purchase of their product as a decision over buying a Sony or MS one.  Most people only buy one console.  They're in competition regardless of what Nintendo wants or deludes themselves into thinking.  So they have to do well in a direct comparison.  Last gen hardware with an expensive controller that doesn't really even get used much and a game lineup that initially consisted of a disproportionate amount of games that are basically NES sidescrollers with fancier graphics and virtually no third party support does not compare well.  Being able to withstand a direct comparison with competing consoles is a requirement.  If Nintendo does not wish to meet that requirement then they shouldn't be making consoles anymore and the market will ensure that if Nintendo insists on trying without meeting this requirement.

Though in regards to running out of ideas for the Gamepad I don't know if Nintendo ran out of ideas or saw that it didn't have that Wii Sports kind of success and so just stopped pushing the feature.

Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2015, 02:41:17 PM »
The ideI just a of the Gamepad is solid, I feel like the hardware isn't robust enough to fully push the ideals of the vision. ZombieU was on the right track.

Offline Soren

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #128 on: June 09, 2015, 03:17:34 PM »
Nintendo is still charging the same price for console games that look last gen. 


No they're not. And no, they don't. Nintendo has probably been the most flexible in their pricing, with plenty of $50 and $40 dollar game offerings and good graphical fidelity. But please, go right ahead.
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Offline ejamer

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #129 on: June 09, 2015, 03:19:42 PM »
Nintendo is still charging the same price for console games that look last gen. 

No they're not. And no, they don't. Nintendo has probably been the most flexible in their pricing, with plenty of $50 and $40 dollar game offerings and good graphical fidelity. But please, go right ahead.


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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #130 on: June 09, 2015, 05:00:35 PM »
Nintendo is still charging the same price for console games that look last gen. 

No they're not. And no, they don't. Nintendo has probably been the most flexible in their pricing, with plenty of $50 and $40 dollar game offerings and good graphical fidelity. But please, go right ahead.

Splatoon, Mario Kart 8 and SSB for Wii U all cost... $60 and they're on glorified PS3 hardware in a world where the competition is the PS4.  Graphically they still look nice but realistically Gamecube games look nice too.  You're making the same excuses Nintendo makes.  "Well they have some cheaper games and it all looks pretty good to me."  Could we all make do with Wii U hardware?  Sure.  Do we HAVE to when two other companies offer something fancier?  No.  That's the point.

My three examples are also online games.  Nintendo is notoriously behind the times with online gaming (no voicechat in Splatoon for example).  Why should any gamer be expected to put up with that?  The other guys have set a standard and Nintendo fails to meet it.  Is there a discount for archaic online?  No.  Pay the same for Splatoon as you do for other online games with more robust features.

The problem is that Nintendo is asking the consumer to put up with all sorts of inadequacies in comparison to competing products.  The only person that would go for that is someone for which Nintendo's first party games are worth the trade-off and that's exactly who owns the Wii U - the most dedicated Nintendo fans.  But for most people Nintendo is just one of many videogame companies that make good games and are not deserving of any special treatment.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who would buy Nintendo games if they were on their console of choice but who otherwise doesn't have any specific fandom in Nintendo.  What sort of Nintendo console would that person buy?

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #131 on: June 09, 2015, 07:19:27 PM »
Nintendo is still charging the same price for console games that look last gen. 

No they're not. And no, they don't. Nintendo has probably been the most flexible in their pricing, with plenty of $50 and $40 dollar game offerings and good graphical fidelity. But please, go right ahead.

Splatoon, Mario Kart 8 and SSB for Wii U all cost... $60 and they're on glorified PS3 hardware in a world where the competition is the PS4.  Graphically they still look nice but realistically Gamecube games look nice too.  You're making the same excuses Nintendo makes.  "Well they have some cheaper games and it all looks pretty good to me."  Could we all make do with Wii U hardware?  Sure.  Do we HAVE to when two other companies offer something fancier?  No.  That's the point.

This is a fair point.  Which is why I think Nintendo should radically think about changing the pricing of gaming again.  I like Nintendo creating cheaper/budget hardware.  I think personally it is a good idea, though they need to be smart about the tools and resources for creating games...and they need to be somewhat comparable to the current generation.  So a Wii in today's market is unacceptable.  A Wii U is ALMOST acceptable, if publishers found it easy to program for and easy to port games over. 

However, I think if Nintendo approached console games with the logic that games need to be priced like portable games used to be priced, then Nintendo could easily get back into the game.  Nintendo could carve out a STRONG market being the secondary console, and make money.  But to do that, they need to change their thinking.  They need to find ways to make being a secondary console work.

Here are some ideas:

1)  Allow 3rd party controllers to work on your system. 
2)  Allow your controllers to work on the 3rd party system. 
(This minor thing, might scare some people away, but the good will of knowing I can buy either Nintendo controllers to work on my Xbox One, or vice versa would help ease the cost of gaming, and buy goodwill for purchasing Nintendo as a secondary console.)

3)Cheaper Games:  Create a new pricing scale for games.  $19.99 Budget games $29.99 Mid-tier games $39.99 Big Budget Games

So the pricing above would help push software sales, because more games could be bought.  $39.99 would be a great price for Mario and Zelda games.  $29.99 Star Fox/Kirby/Splatoon type games.  $19.99 I dunno someone else could give me an example...maybe a Wii Sports type game, or Wii Party.

4) You can embrace DLC and extending content...as long as you give people a fair product from the beginning.  It can even be slightly overpriced.  Example:  I know people are complaining about the cost of new characters for Smash Bros.  However, I feel that cost is fair for a bonus.  The content in the original purchase is more than enough...and if you want more buying it is fine.

5)  Universal Account System Linking Up to 3 devices (Portables and Consoles)  I think having an account based system that links game purchases to more than one account would be great.  It would work much like Apple does it.

If Nintendo took this approach for the consumer end, and made the appropriate adjustments to the backend of the business to make this work, I think they would rise again.

Offline Adrock

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #132 on: June 09, 2015, 07:33:53 PM »
Nintendo could carve out a STRONG market being the secondary console, and make money.  But to do that, they need to change their thinking.  They need to find ways to make being a secondary console work.
If Nintendo really wants to do this, it can't have a $300+. I think $200 is the sweet spot for that. However, Nintendo would have to sacrifice a lot to get the price that low. I believe there's a better solution, but I'd rather start a new thread for that.
Quote
I know people are complaining about the cost of new characters for Smash Bros.  However, I feel that cost is fair for a bonus.
Honestly, I think the price is a little high, but at the same time, I'm practically waiting to give Nintendo my money. I find that DLC in multiplayer games tend to get more milage for me. I've yet to purchase single-player DLC.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 07:36:25 PM by Adrock »

Offline Mop it up

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #133 on: June 10, 2015, 06:49:41 PM »
I'd like a system that offers better value, lowers game prices and makes everything more affordable.

A smartphone?
Nice try, but smartphones don't cover the "value" condition since most of the games are junk, and there are still plenty of overpriced games on there too (see Square's stuff for one example). Smartphones themselves are also very expensive.

These days it is very affordable to be a gamer, provided you have enough willpower to hold off getting a game on day one.
Considering the high cost of things like DLC and sub fees for online services, I very much disagree with this notion. These practices are only getting worse.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #134 on: June 10, 2015, 07:58:27 PM »
I don't really want a secondary console from Nintendo and frankly I don't want one from anybody.  What I want is one console that supports a good 90% of the games I'm interested in.  That means either a Nintendo console with good third party support or someone else's console with Nintendo as a third party dev.  While I'm certainly not interested in paying $300 for a secondary console I don't really want to pay even $100.  No one else acts like they're so damn special that they can justify this, particularly when the real reason Nintendo won't offer a decent console is because they're too damn cheap and stubborn to even really try.

If we're talking a $39.99 Zelda what type of game is this?  Is it scaled down?  I like how they appear to be going all out on the Wii U Zelda.  That's part of the appeal.  I don't think they can make a game like that for $40.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #135 on: June 10, 2015, 08:48:34 PM »
If you wait a year to half a year you can buy a game for half price.  But that still isn't the point. 

First, if you do that you risk multiplayer aspect of the game being dead as a new more interesting game comes out.
Second, that logic also applies if games were cheaper to begin with...making it even cheaper if game prices drop.

But honestly, I think Nintendo is right, about price drops being bad for the industry.  I think it would be better to try and keep prices stable but lower. 

Offline Wah

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #136 on: June 10, 2015, 08:59:40 PM »
Wii U needs more....
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #137 on: June 23, 2015, 01:45:35 AM »
After reading a lengthy article on the development of the Game Cube and the transition into the Wii, I feel that I have a better idea of Nintendo's strategies at the time, something that carried into and most likely crippled the Wii U. Nintendo, or at least Miyamoto and Iwata, as well as a few other higher ups, seem committed to the idea that they need to bring new technology into people's homes at an affĂ´rdsble price, while also catering to a Japanese market pretty extensively. The problem is, their market study often leads them to make design decisions that make little to no sense. In the case of the Game Cube and Wii, it was the idea of creating a compact, semi portable device. With the Wii U, the focus on power consumption and the similarities with the Wii brand were probably key factors that ultimately don't mean jack-**** to an American consumer. Also, the tech they hoped to proliferate with the Wii U was particularly difficult to convey and already existed in more popular forms. The form factor probably also hurt it a bit, as well.

Nintendo has often stated that they aren't really competing with anyone, and their business approach certainly reflects that. While they have been more aggressive in targeting and promoting third parties with collaborations they make little to no effort to cultivate the market for third party releases outside of leaving software droughts for them to fill in gaps. They create games on their consoles in that way, they aren't really competing either. But their refusal to include, and in the Wii U's case, support multimedia aspects in their consoles has been a bizarre and stubborn choice that they continue to stand by for two reasons, basically- they don't know how, which further supports their second reason, which is that they make toys. This was, for a long time, a personal belief, but after seeing quotes from Yamauchi and Miyamoto that enforce and flat-out state this, I think it clarifies Nintendo's business decisions and recent success with Amiibo. It almost surprises me that Amiibo wasn't a key focus of Wii U in the first place. From the the toylike designs of their machines to the emphasis on gameplay foundation over story and presentational aspects, it's clear that Nintendo products are supposed to be inviting and charming, which is the exact opposite of what many western gamers desire in their products.

Maybe I'm just talking out loud, but while Nintendo has made several drastic changes in recent months, I don't think we'll see a difference in the structure of their console development with the NX, or their video games in the future. If I've realized one thing about the company, it's that they take baby steps towards any ideas that aren't their own and remain firmly roped in their ways.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #138 on: June 23, 2015, 06:17:49 AM »
The problem is, their market study often leads them to make design decisions that make little to no sense.
In hindsight. Many of Nintendo's decisions have made sense on paper but the execution was flawed.

I don't think catering to the Japanese market is necessarily a bad move. Nintendo just has to understand when it's appropriate. Things like Streetpass work well in that market. In North America, it doesn't, but 3DS still works very well as a personal gaming device which is why it's still successful. It was weird when Nintendo talked up changing "together alone" with Wii U when 3DS contributed to that concept. Understanding who and what a product is for can go a long way in determining how to design it. Building a handheld for the Japanese market in mind makes sense since that's where that market has trended for quite sometime. Alternatively, no company should build a home console with the Japanese market in mind for the same reason handhelds are so successful there. Unfortunately, there is no one size fits all. Design hardware based on the market that is most drawn to it. A home console should be designed with North American sensibilities because that's where it'll do the most damage.

Offline Soren

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #139 on: June 23, 2015, 07:22:52 AM »
How about an F-Zero game developed by Criterion, would that have saved the Wii U? Probably not, but enjoy your morning cup of tears...

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/06/exclusive_we_almost_got_a_wii_u_f-zero_created_by_burnout_studio_criterion

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Offline lolmonade

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #140 on: June 23, 2015, 08:40:25 AM »
How about an F-Zero game developed by Criterion, would that have saved the Wii U? Probably not, but enjoy your morning cup of tears...

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/06/exclusive_we_almost_got_a_wii_u_f-zero_created_by_burnout_studio_criterion

This makes me wonder why it had to be "all or nothing" on the timeline for a playable demo of an F-Zero game developed by Criterion....Why couldn't Nintendo have told them "if not by that soon, then let us know if you'd be interested as a next project". 

Nintendo needs to get it out of their head that every series needs a new hook to validate a game.  I get GX sold like Garbage, but F-Zero is a futuristic racer with by now very specific game mechanics that don't really deviate between iterations.  Frankly, just having a graphically updated game with a robust set of game modes and an online as functional as Mariokart is all you need.  Especially considering how they've seemingly recycled Starfox's gameplay mechanics mostly for the new one, this excuse doesn't hold water, and I'd be more accepting if a little disappointed if Nintendo just came out and said "hey, sorry, I know there are some fans of the series, but the last couple of F-Zero games did poorly, so we can't justify a new game at this time", then continue pitching the idea to outside publishers behind the scenes.

I half figured the inclusion of F-Zero levels & kart in Mariokart 8 was a "throwing a bone" at the F-Zero fanbase similarly to this year's Metriod reveal.  Disappointing regardless, because unlike Metroid, F-Zero seems completely dead in the water.
 

Offline Soren

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #141 on: June 23, 2015, 10:29:41 AM »
I'm pretty sure "It's in HD" is a pretty good hook for a new game. Maybe Nintendo is scared they can't do a 1080 60fps F-Zero like the series deserves. Maybe NOE just gave up after the initial pitch to Criterion, which sucks because Criterion really went out on a limb for the console with Most Wanted.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #142 on: June 23, 2015, 05:32:54 PM »
Or maybe they just respect Criterion enough to wait until they have time...or wait until the Nintendo NX. 

Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #143 on: June 23, 2015, 11:38:59 PM »
Legit: This sheds some light on "Unprecedented Partnership"  and I wonder what other handshake type deals they had worked out?

Offline ThePerm

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #144 on: June 24, 2015, 04:29:40 PM »
If Nintendo does it right they can have F-Zero, Zelda U-X, Mario Galaxy 3, Metroid Prime 4 all ready for the nx system at launch. I doubt that, they don't seem organized enough to pull that off at this point.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #145 on: June 24, 2015, 09:49:32 PM »
Nintendo would never launch with top tier games ready for launch.

However, Nintendo might consider Metroid and F-Zero not Top Tier. 

So I could see F-Zero, Zelda, and Metroid Prime ready for launch.  That would be quite a lineup, and if they take Prime into the direction the 3DS game...then you could have a shooter with multiplayer and team work, a Zelda Game and a racer game ready.  Get Sega to make a Monkeyball type party game, and have a fully functional Virtual Console with no dumb trickle down releases and you are ready.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #146 on: June 25, 2015, 12:15:24 AM »
It's time for the Nintendo fanbase to let go of the Galaxy sequel idea completely. There's noting unique about that series except gravity and that wasn't even implemented well.
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Offline Wah

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #147 on: June 25, 2015, 01:20:42 AM »
I think a built in thunderbox could have saved it...
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Offline Dasmos

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #148 on: June 25, 2015, 09:20:02 AM »
It's time for the Nintendo fanbase to let go of the Galaxy sequel idea completely. There's noting unique about that series except gravity and that wasn't even implemented well.

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Offline broodwars

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Re: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?
« Reply #149 on: June 25, 2015, 11:48:55 AM »
Gotta say, I kind of agree with him: the whole gimmick of the Galaxy series was supposed to be the odd gravity of the planetoids changing the way you look at platforming, but the games rarely used the changes in gravity for anything remotely interesting. For the most part, it was just used to replicate the "now you're walking on the ceiling!" gimmick we've seen in gaming as early as Gravity Man's stage in Mega Man 5.
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