Topic: Super NES Classic Edition Announced, Includes Unreleased Star Fox 2

[Mop it up]

My SNES is on the fritz, so this would be a great way to be able to replay most of my faves. And Star Fox 2 is a serious surprise, I'm curious if it's going to be the final version of the game, and have content not seen in the leaked prototype.

Let's be honest though, can I realistically find one of these?

[nickmitch]

What if the Switch production has been constrained because the factories are all making SNES classics?

Not generally how production works.  It's more likely they shut the valve on the NES classic and used that production bandwidth to focus on the SNES Classic than them lowering their Switch production in order to give this product daylight.


Not only that, but the articles I've read stated the Switch's commonality with components in Apple products are creating a shortage of the components they need, not necessarily production bandwidth. 

I'd imagine if Nintendo has certain amount of factory space to make Switches, that factory space would already be operating at less than capacity due to the limited supplies, which gives them some excess room to make something else.  The SNES Mini would be then be that something else.  So, it wouldn't be eating away at Nintendo's capacity to manufacture the Switch, but instead using some that the Switch is leaving unused.  If that makes sense.

[Ian Sane]

The more I read about the SNES Classic the more interested I am in it and figure if by some miracle I happened to come across one in the wild I'd buy it.  But then I have that same feeling about the NES Classic.  It's very frustrating to be interested in a product and yet I just ASSUME that Nintendo will underproduce them and I'll never even see one in real life.  It's so stupid!  When the NES Classic was announced there was excitement about it.  With this there is bitterness over an assumption that Nintendo will botch it.

I mean they already announced a discontinuation date.  If they learned from the NES Classic they wouldn't have a fixed end date in mind.  That's what's so offensive about the NES Classic.  Waiting is an inconvenience but it's a punch in the gut to know you'll NEVER get a product you had every intention on buying without paying a ridiculous mark up.  If you want a Switch, you're going to have to wait but at least you know you'll get one eventually.  Nintendo isn't going to ubruptly discontinue it before the demand is met.

What I find interesting is despite Reggie saying they've increased production I don't really see too many people on different game forums clinging to that.  In the past you could always rely on fanboys to come out of the woodwork to defend Nintendo but I see that so much less now.  We're at a point now where cynicism in Nintendo, even while being a big fan of their products, is normal.  You can like them overall and still acknowledge that there are many things they always screw up and no one says you're not like a true fan for thinking that way.

Of course that's not good for Nintendo.  If they had half a brain they would notice the bitterness that's coming out in reaction to the SNES Classic and maybe re-release the NES Classic and not come in to the SNES Classic with a set discontinuation date and fixed amount of manufactured units in mind.

[Adrock]

I mean they already announced a discontinuation date.  If they learned from the NES Classic they wouldn't have a fixed end date in mind.  That's what's so offensive about the NES Classic.

The lesson Nintendo learned was to announce that the SNES Classic is a limited edition item meant only for this year, something it wasn't clear about with the NES Classic last year. Granted, it's the wrong lesson but a lesson nonetheless.

Nintendo can fix this easily by announcing legacy titles on Nintendo Switch. Sure, the actual SNES Classic hardware is a nice thing to have. However, I think most people can live without it if there was a legal way to have access to these games.

[NWR_insanolord]

They should just sell the software side of this as a Switch game. All the same games, with the same interface and everything, as a package on Switch. That would sidestep the issue of how to handle selling individual retro games on the system, but still let people have access to a lot of the top titles.

[lolmonade]

What if the Switch production has been constrained because the factories are all making SNES classics?

Not generally how production works.  It's more likely they shut the valve on the NES classic and used that production bandwidth to focus on the SNES Classic than them lowering their Switch production in order to give this product daylight.


Not only that, but the articles I've read stated the Switch's commonality with components in Apple products are creating a shortage of the components they need, not necessarily production bandwidth. 

I'd imagine if Nintendo has certain amount of factory space to make Switches, that factory space would already be operating at less than capacity due to the limited supplies, which gives them some excess room to make something else.  The SNES Mini would be then be that something else.  So, it wouldn't be eating away at Nintendo's capacity to manufacture the Switch, but instead using some that the Switch is leaving unused.  If that makes sense.

Without doing a google search, I'm going to make an educated guess that Nintendo does not own any manufacturing space of their own.  Rather, they make a purchase agreement with a manufacturer such as Foxconn, who manufactures a large variety of different electronic products for various manufacturers.  Lead-times from purchase orders to quantify available to ship isn't just about component availability, but also issues such as if other production jobs are staged ahead of Nintendo's next production order on the production line. 

[nickmitch]

True, but it does help for Nintendo to keep putting in large orders with their manufacturers since manufacturers like to prioritize the big spenders.  I was thinking more they "lease" the space, but that probably isn't the case.

[Adrock]

They should just sell the software side of this as a Switch game. All the same games, with the same interface and everything, as a package on Switch. That would sidestep the issue of how to handle selling individual retro games on the system, but still let people have access to a lot of the top titles.

This is a brilliant idea. I'd buy it.

[Stratos]

I just can't care. Until they stop with this limited crap and I am able to walk into a store and buy one for retail price, I just don't care. I have more valuable things to do with my time than wait in line for a plastic item that the company making it does not actually want to sell to me. As a long time fan, I am done. I'll just get working on my raspberry pi.

[ejamer]

I just can't care. Until they stop with this limited crap and I am able to walk into a store and buy one for retail price, I just don't care. I have more valuable things to do with my time than wait in line for a plastic item that the company making it does not actually want to sell to me. As a long time fan, I am done. I'll just get working on my raspberry pi.

I don't like this solution at all. Strongly prefer not just downloading games and emulating. But when you actively try to buy a current product and can't (without resorting to grossly inflated second-hand scalpers) I feel less bad.

[BeautifulShy]

From what I have been reading on how Nintendo is going to release this system is that they are doing preorders so hopefully the initial demand will be met.

[Stratos]

I just can't care. Until they stop with this limited crap and I am able to walk into a store and buy one for retail price, I just don't care. I have more valuable things to do with my time than wait in line for a plastic item that the company making it does not actually want to sell to me. As a long time fan, I am done. I'll just get working on my raspberry pi.

I don't like this solution at all. Strongly prefer not just downloading games and emulating. But when you actively try to buy a current product and can't (without resorting to grossly inflated second-hand scalpers) I feel less bad.

I don't like it either, but Nintendo has burned out a lot of their goodwill with me because of all the scarcity shenanigans. If it becomes available down the road for me I'll gladly buy it, but I'm not going to move heaven and earth to give a company money for a product they can make and won't go through the effort to sell it to me.

[ejamer]

From what I have been reading on how Nintendo is going to release this system is that they are doing preorders so hopefully the initial demand will be met.

Aww. That's sweet. You're so trusting and naive.

[BeautifulShy]

From what I have been reading on how Nintendo is going to release this system is that they are doing preorders so hopefully the initial demand will be met.

Aww. That's sweet. You're so trusting and naive.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/6/27/15875448/mini-snes-classic-pre-order-amazon-walmart-best-buy

Yep totally trusting and naïve. :rollseyes:

[Ian Sane]

If pre-ordering is a requirement to land one of these things then Nintendo is not making enough.  We should be able to see this in stores.  The average consumer that doesn't even know the NES Classic ever existed should see it on the shelf and pick it up as an impulse buy.

That really shows how they bungled the NES Classic.  That was the ultimate impulse buy for a 35 year old who hasn't played NES in 20 years seeing the product in store and being overwhelmed by nostalgia.  Nintendo wasn't even able to meet demand for the diehard gamer geeks that wanted it, let alone the casual audience.

[nickmitch]

That really shows how they bungled the NES Classic.  That was the ultimate impulse buy for a 35 year old who hasn't played NES in 20 years seeing the product in store and being overwhelmed by nostalgia.

Which was the exact audience Reggie claimed they were targeting.  The "lapsed gamer" he called them.

[Khushrenada]

That really shows how they bungled the NES Classic.  That was the ultimate impulse buy for a 35 year old who hasn't played NES in 20 years seeing the product in store and being overwhelmed by nostalgia.

Which was the exact audience Reggie claimed they were targeting.  The "lapsed gamer" he called them.

Sure but that doesn't take away from Ian's point. They may have been targeting the lapsed gamers but it was mainly the hardcore current gamers / collectors who were able to snag the copies available. A lapsed gamer probably isn't waiting for pre-orders to come up or standing in line before a store opens to grab the few in stock. It's not a focus for them. However, if they were to hear about it and look it up and find it available to order then they probably would or if they were just out shopping and a store had them on display then it could be an impulse buy. But if they never see them and can't buy them that way then Nintendo missed that target audience because a different one snagged them up.

[Soren]

That really shows how they bungled the NES Classic.  That was the ultimate impulse buy for a 35 year old who hasn't played NES in 20 years seeing the product in store and being overwhelmed by nostalgia.

Which was the exact audience Reggie claimed they were targeting.  The "lapsed gamer" he called them.

That's not true at all. In the SNES Classic press release Nintendo stated that they're making this product for:

...the fans who show tremendous interest our classic content.

Those aren't "lapsed gamers". That's a pretty explicit dig at those who keep asking about Virtual Console. Lapsed gamers aren't going to refresh placeholder pages waiting for pre-order availability or stand in line the day of release in a futile attempt at getting this.

[Ian Sane]

I think for the SNES Classic they've changed the target audience after they realized who bought up all the NES Classics.

At the end of the day you know Nintendo could have sold more NES Classics, hell probably at least twice what they made, simply because there wouldn't be any scalper market if there wasn't a whole lot of potential customers that missed out.  Hell that even only covers the die hards who will pay the markup.  That doesn't include those that would have bought it at the retail price but are not interested enough to pay the scalpers.

My guess is that with the NES Classic Nintendo only negotiated the rights to those third party games for a set amount of time and then got caught with their pants down when they couldn't meet demand.  But they have a drop dead date here as well so they either didn't learn **** (always a fair assumption with Nintendo) or they had the SNES Classic all planned out well in advance and made the same limited time deal with the third parties before knowing the fate of the NES Classic.

[Adrock]

Nintendo doesn't like excess and consistently produces modest numbers when it comes to just about anything. All that talk of Nintendo intentionally withholding stock of Amiibo or NES Classic or Switch to drum up demand was always nonsense. Nintendo wants to sell things but doesn't want to be caught in a situation in which it has a bunch of units left over. That's fair to a point.

While Nintendo isn't twirling its mustache while plotting underhanded schemes to build hype, it's naive at best and incompetent at worst. Based on some cursory googling, fewer than three million NES Classics were sold in North America as of April 2017. That means, Nintendo somehow thought it may not sell out three million nostalgia machines. Really, guys? NES is one of the most beloved consoles ever created, and Nintendo actually had to be convinced to produce an additional run to still produce fewer than three million units overall. Playing it safe would be the understatement of all understatements in the video game market. Nintendo could have comfortably produced seven or eight million NES Classics. They were cheap enough that after the people who really wanted it got one, future scalpers would have scooped up the rest and made a killing in 10 years.

[Shecky]

Wasn't Secret of Mana's draw the three players?  Need that third controller...

[ejamer]

From what I have been reading on how Nintendo is going to release this system is that they are doing preorders so hopefully the initial demand will be met.

Aww. That's sweet. You're so trusting and naive.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/6/27/15875448/mini-snes-classic-pre-order-amazon-walmart-best-buy

Yep totally trusting and naïve. :rollseyes:

To be clear, I'm not doubting preorders in the least. I'm doubting that NoA will come anywhere close to meeting demand. There were preorders for NES Classic too - but not even enough product produced to meet all preorders as some people who put down preorders got turned away at the store afterwards. (Maybe this isn't Nintendo's fault - but it still stinks of incompetence.)


Surely things will be better this time... but if you think Nintendo is going to sufficiently meet demand at launch then you haven't been paying attention to their MO over the past decade.

[nickmitch]

That really shows how they bungled the NES Classic.  That was the ultimate impulse buy for a 35 year old who hasn't played NES in 20 years seeing the product in store and being overwhelmed by nostalgia.

Which was the exact audience Reggie claimed they were targeting.  The "lapsed gamer" he called them.

That's not true at all. In the SNES Classic press release Nintendo stated that they're making this product for:

...the fans who show tremendous interest our classic content.

Those aren't "lapsed gamers". That's a pretty explicit dig at those who keep asking about Virtual Console. Lapsed gamers aren't going to refresh placeholder pages waiting for pre-order availability or stand in line the day of release in a futile attempt at getting this.

I was referring to what Reggie said about the NES Classic:

When we looked at that proposition what we believed was the adults, 30-40 years old, who grew up playing NES as a kid, 10 years old or so but had stepped away from the gaming category--that was going to be the buyer

Can't find where he said "lapsed gamers".  Could've been about something else.

[Caterkiller]

So can anyone explain the Star Fox and Yoshi's Island emulation? Are these things becoming available because it's using some form of SNES architecture or is something else managed with a chance these games could come to the VC? I can't imagine anyone would really know anything but I figure I'd ask.