Author Topic: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS  (Read 3130 times)

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Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« on: September 15, 2017, 11:18:22 AM »
The forums seemed to have slowed right down again today. Is everyone too busy playing this or something?  :-\

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Offline Adrock

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 08:40:09 PM »
Metroid: Samus Returns is good. There's an over-reliance on the Melee Counter. I've died a few times because I've entered rooms without realizing it's a boss or Metroid fight so I was low on health. Not sure if bosses can be countered because I also died waiting for a counter opportunity that never came.

The graphics are not good. Okay, the graphics "good for a 3DS game." Still, it's almost 2018 and I'm getting tired of using that qualifier. Games just don't look good in 240p anymore. Metroid: Samus Returns has the same muddy textures most "realistic" 3DS games have. The character models look good though there are way too many green lights on the Varia Suit now. If/when Metroid: Samus Returns comes out on Switch, higher resolution textures would do wonders.

Honestly, I would rebuy this game on Switch if only to use a regular analog stick. The game controls as well as it can with a Circle pad, but it would greatly benefits from the Pro Controller.

I'll write more once I finish the game.

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 08:13:34 PM »
I finally got a chance to play it for about about 2 hours and I'm loving it so far.  As a fan of action games I like the addition of the counter and the fact normal enemies are tougher now.  It's certainly a more engaging experience then previous 2D Metroids.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 02:04:45 PM »
I'm still pretty skeptical, so it'll probably be a while.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 02:11:50 PM »
I'm a little bit in and really liking it. My only issue is I'm having a bit of trouble with the timing of the melee counter. It seems to really want you to press it as soon as the enemy starts its motuon, but in my mind it looks like that's too soon and then I miss. Hopefully I'm able to adjust to that soon.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 02:44:40 PM »
I had the same problem as Insanolord.  I eventually got used to the timing.  Samus's swing is kinda slow and lingers after the motion, so I had to keep that in mind while playing.

Loving the game so far.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 05:15:42 PM »
I'm still pretty skeptical, so it'll probably be a while.
I’m curious. Why? Because Other M?

I’ve read reviews that say Metroid: Samus Returns isn’t better than Super Metroid (and it isn’t). Contextually, that isn’t really a bad thing. Super Metroid was transcendent. It’s okay for a game to be regular-good. Comparing Metroid: Samus Returns to one of the greatest games of all time takes more away from it than I think is intended.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 08:22:45 PM »
For people having trouble with the melee counter, once you get the Ice Beam you don't need to rely on it as much.  Now I've only just gotten to the point where I've gotten the Varia Suit so it might change later but after getting the Ice Beam, I've just frozen most of the enemies I've come across and after being frozen they die after 1-2 missiles.  And considering the majority give missiles back once killed I've never once come close to being low on missiles and I've been spamming them like crazy.  It's been like a normal 2D Metroid for me ever since for the most part except for the Metroid fights but I love doing the counters during those fights anyway since they literally take off the majority of the Metroids health in one counterattack.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 05:18:31 PM »
After Amazon dropped their 20% off for new games I cancelled my pre-orders I had through them. My GCU membership is also ending soon so, in light of the new school year starting, I am halting the majority of game purchases. Also, this game falls into the category of "wait for a Switch up port". Just can't enjoy games on the 3DS like I used to now that I have the Switch, especially games that heavily use the C-stick. I modded my system to use a PSP nub, but it is a little too loosey-goosey for me to be able to stand for long (even though it is far and away better that the c-nub).
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 06:26:34 AM »
There’s another Ridley fight; this time as the final boss which means Sakamoto doesn’t know what to do with Metroid: Other M. The Metroid larva helps Samus fight this incarnation of Ridley which connects really well with Super Metroid and also explains why Samus would care so much about “the baby” in Other M.

The problem is it makes that PTSD scene in Other M make even less sense. Even if you ignore the Prime games, Samus has now fought living, fire breathing Ridley in every mainline entry before Other M. In Samus Returns, Samus sees Ridley grab the Metroid larva then jumps off a cliff to engage him. No flashback, no PTSD, no hesitation, no “Goddamn you again?! Didn’t I already murder you?”

That infamous scene in Other M is the worst thing in the entire series. It’s indefensible, characteristically inconsistent, and narratively nonsensical. Remaking Metroid II: The Return of Samus gave Sakamoto the perfect opportunity to justify that scene. Had Samus reacted similarly in Samus Returns, Super Metroid would be the outlier and one could argue a remake could address it. Instead, Sakamoto walked back on Other M’s characterization of Samus. It’s more consistent with the rest of the series and honestly, better for it. Samus’ attachment to “the baby” is as subtle as it is in Super Metroid.

I’m not one of those people who thinks Metroid shouldn’t have voice acting or cutscenes. Narratively, Samus Returns works the same way the older games work. If Nintendo is going to do cinematics, it has to do better than Other M.

More impressions later. Instead of Ridley returning, I think it would have been cool if Kraid was the final boss.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 08:18:04 AM by Adrock »

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2017, 09:01:46 PM »
Now that I've played the game more and gotten more used to the melee counter move I'm finding it really satisfying to pull off, and I think I'll miss it next time I go back and play one of the previous 2D Metroids. It, combined with the higher difficulty, makes even the smallest enemy encounter interesting.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 12:04:59 PM »
Been playing this slowly over the past few days. Latest upgrade I've achieved is the Grappling Hook and am in Area 3 with 27 metroids down. I'm surprised that with still over half the metroids to hunt down that I've gotten so many upgrades at this point.

The game is a bit odd for me. I'm loving being back in this series and sci-fi atmosphere yet the game is coming off across as a bit linear. I just keep travelling deeper and deeper into SR388 and even though I could go back to some starting areas to get some upgrades I was locked out of before by not having the necessary upgrade at the time, I haven't seen the need to do so or felt it necessary to go back to them. Even though you enter into areas with no map, using the Aeion ability to slowly piece it all onto screen doesn't require much searching or wondering where to go next. Plus, it also reveals where items and "hidden" rooms would be to access them or get around which doesn't require much searching through the maps and levels to find hidden secrets.

I, personally, really like the look of the game. This is a true 3D screen gem. I love the depth and distance and care that was made in the backgrounds of the game to give the 2D plane you are operating on make sense and feel more organic. It's a shame the map just has generic names like Area 1 or Surface. I miss the Prime touch of every room having its own name and description. I was also impressed with Area 2 and getting to the water caves near it's bottom portion of the map. You can see these alien beasts drinking out of them and one even seemed to notice me in the foreground and retreated. I was wondering if it was going to be a boss I'd have to fight but, nope, it was just background eye-candy. There was another room that had some pillars falling in the background to emphasize the decaying structure. Again, that just comes across as, shall we say, very Prime-esque. I'm expecting different types of visors to come into play because of that vibe but I don't think that's going to be happening.

Another thing I'm surprised about is the lack of boss fights. I guess every Metroid is like a boss fight but they feel more like sub-bosses. I'm expecting huge alien monsters I need to defeat to unlock a necessary upgrade or move onto another portion of the world but there hasn't been anything I've encountered so far that feels like that. It's just hunting down and finding all the metroids in the area to unlock the seal and move on to the next world. It might seem a minor thing but it's like a sign of progression for me of beating the major enemy for an area which means the rest of the area should just be mopping up for any remaining upgrades.

The game has been pretty challenging and there's been a learning curve with new type of metroids I encounter to learn their attacks and how to counter or fight them. I'm probably around 20 deaths or so. Again, it is a bit surprising that I've gotten probably half the suit upgrades already and 13 metroids down yet have only recently gotten my fourth energy tank. I wonder if this game is still going to have the traditional 14 energy tanks or not. Keeping the energy amount low is helping keep the difficulty level a bit higher, I suppose, and maybe that's why I'm mostly facing a lot of the same enemies from the Surface down into Area 3 instead of more powerful ones. That is another minor gripe in that I'm getting tired of facing a lot of the same creatures over and over in every room. Changing the color of the enemy with a slightly new attack isn't really fooling me into thinking this is some kind of new enemy. Combined with the lack of a major boss, it just feels like I'm still playing the first or opening level of a game. However, even though I may be tired of blasting all these flying monster bats, it definitely has helped me get used to the melee counter technique so I'm a lot more comfortable with the control scheme and gameplay ideas for this Metroid game than I was when I first started playing.

Overall, it's a bit of a mixed bag for me. I'm still quite positive on the game and I'm glad to be playing another 2D Metroid after a decade but I'm not over the moon positive nor has the game gripped me so that I want to just keep playing it non-stop like Super Metroid, Zero Mission or Prime 1 and 2 did. It can be a bit hard to tear myself away from it but, once I have, I don't find myself suddenly hurrying back to it the next chance I get. Guess we'll see if things change more the further I get into it.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 12:25:46 PM »
I'm still pretty skeptical, so it'll probably be a while.
I’m curious. Why? Because Other M?
Nah, I'm one of the crazies who didn't think Other M was a bad game (outside of story). This'll probably sound strange to most, but the game seems to focus more on action than anything, which I don't particularly care for. The original Metroid II is also my least-fave game in the series, so even if it's vastly improved a remake of said game still isn't that interesting to me. Lastly, I find something off about the look of the game, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

Maybe everything has a weird glow because of too many green lights on Samus's suit.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 12:37:21 PM »
I've found some levels will have a glow to them if there is something special to them. For instance, Chozo seal rooms have a purplish glow about them (perhaps from the purple acid water) but when the seal is unlocked then the room loses that glow and becomes normal. Entering a room with a metroid will have a hazy green glow but when the Metroid is defeated then the room loses that glow and looks like any other normal room. The hot lava levels have a bit of a red glow to show heat but that particular glow doesn't seem to go away.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 03:08:15 PM »
Nah, I'm one of the crazies who didn't think Other M was a bad game (outside of story). This'll probably sound strange to most, but the game seems to focus more on action than anything, which I don't particularly care for. The original Metroid II is also my least-fave game in the series, so even if it's vastly improved a remake of said game still isn't that interesting to me. Lastly, I find something off about the look of the game, but I can't quite put my finger on it...
I can get behind that. I, too, didn't think Other M was a bad game. It was like three design choices from being something special though I can't comment on how well Other M has aged since I haven't played it in like six years.

The Melee Counter is reminiscent of SenseMove+Overblast from Other M. When you're tasked with hunting and exterminating Metroids, I suppose it makes sense to be a bit more action-oriented. Exploring labyrinthine caves can be daunting so I think the risk/reward structure of Melee Counter gives players something to latch onto when they get lost. At the same time, I think there were other ways to make Metroid II: The Return of Samus more accessible and fun. The areas don't feel as connected as past games (or really, Super Metroid) so getting lost likely won't happen as often. There are even warp points which is one of the most anti-Metroid things in the game. Ultimately, Samus Returns could have worked as a sprite-based remake like Zero Mission.

There is something about the look that is off to me. I talked about the graphics in an earlier post, and part of it is the low resolution. Samus Returns feels like it's missing something like Breath of the Wild without the cel-shading glitch. If Nintendo ever gets around to a sequel or insists on remaking Super Metroid, I'd like to see sprites again or really, just something braver with the art direction.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2017, 06:41:40 PM »
I get the logic behind putting teleport rooms in the game, the world structure is a lot more linear than most Metroid games and it makes going back to earlier areas for collectibles a lot less annoying, but it just feels wrong to have them in a Metroid game
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2017, 01:11:20 PM »
I get the logic behind putting teleport rooms in the game, the world structure is a lot more linear than most Metroid games and it makes going back to earlier areas for collectibles a lot less annoying, but it just feels wrong to have them in a Metroid game

If you guys want more Metroids then you better get used to them.  Like Casual Mode in modern Fire Emblems, it's something designed to help make a niche series more accessible to the masses.  Of course like Casual Mode in Fire Emblem the teleport rooms are 100% optional, so Metroid purest can just ignore them and aren't required to use them at all.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2017, 11:40:24 AM »
Metroid purest can just ignore them and aren't required to use them at all.
I cringe every time I see this reasoning. It’s classic Nintendo apologism. Suggesting people should avoid or ignore things developers put into their games is asinine.

I accept that few games are as expertly designed as Super Metroid. Samus Returns is decidedly worse than its canonical sequel in almost every way, and that’s okay. It’s still good. However, Nintendo and MercurySteam don’t get a pass for designing extremely linear levels and adding warp points in the latest entry of a series known for exploration. Navigating a foreign space and slowly building up an arsenal so everything doesn’t kill you was the entire point. If this is how they wanted to design the game, fine. A Metroid purist won’t get exactly what they want which is also fine.

Something can be different and good at the same time. However, it’s the developers’ responsibility to meet the player’s expectations, not the player’s responsibility to change or lower their expectations because the developers made a worse thing so I won’t sanction the idea that one should alter the way they play a game because developers walked back on certain things that made a series what it is.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2017, 12:31:34 PM »
I know teleportation sounds like an anti-Metroid idea but it really hasn't bothered me or seemed out of place. To me, teleportation just comes across a bit like elevators or the Space Pirate subway of Metroid Prime 3. Yes, there is a bit of difference in that you can change your end destination each time but it hasn't felt as out of place as it would initially seem, at least to me. There have also been a couple times where I checked my map and heading to a warp point to get to another warp point and go from there to my destination seemed just as long as going to the destination from where I was already at so I didn't bother.

Other times, it was nice not to have to back track the whole way. That is something which does annoy me in some Metroid games (particularly the Prime games). I'm just running through room after room and trying to pass by enemies and not engage them just to get to a location for some artifact or last power up. Going to the end of Phendrana then taking half of Magmoor to get back to the Tallon Overworld can get tiring.

Ultimately, it's the design of Metroid 2 that holds it back from Super Metroid, Zero Mission and even Fusion. The original game, like this one, is to just keep burrowing down and down into SR388 to get to the last Metroid. There are a lot of dead ends because once you eliminate the Metroid at the end of the path, there's not much reason to continue on. Each area is just a bunch of paths to different metroid nests and then you move to the next area deeper in the planet. Because of the up-down map structure, the areas don't really connect well allowing you to start busting through them for faster navigation in new paths like you could near the end of Fusion, Zero Mission or Super Metroid. Is it better than the original? Absolutely! Is it better than Super Metroid or Zero Mission? No but that doesn't make a bad game. Like Adrock has mentioned, that's a tough bar to clear for any game really and not just the Metroid series.

I do like the different type of mission the game has which helps make it a bit different and a more unique entry in the series. However, fighting some of the same metroid types over and over can get repetative. I think that's my biggest knock on this game. It can be a bit repetitive. Each area is the same goal. Eliminate all the metroids in it to unlock the next area to do the same thing.

Finally, as I was typing this, it suddenly occurred to me that Metroid Fusion may actually be the first sort of remake of this game. The task there is to eliminate the X parasite just like the mission here is to eliminate all the metroids. However, despite having seperate environments to do that task in, the designers figured out how to make them more inner-connected in that game while also throwing plenty of interesting diversions and boss fights into the mix.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2017, 09:52:41 PM »
I cringe every time I see this reasoning. It’s classic Nintendo apologism. Suggesting people should avoid or ignore things developers put into their games is asinine.

I accept that few games are as expertly designed as Super Metroid. Samus Returns is decidedly worse than its canonical sequel in almost every way, and that’s okay. It’s still good. However, Nintendo and MercurySteam don’t get a pass for designing extremely linear levels and adding warp points in the latest entry of a series known for exploration. Navigating a foreign space and slowly building up an arsenal so everything doesn’t kill you was the entire point. If this is how they wanted to design the game, fine. A Metroid purist won’t get exactly what they want which is also fine.

Something can be different and good at the same time. However, it’s the developers’ responsibility to meet the player’s expectations, not the player’s responsibility to change or lower their expectations because the developers made a worse thing so I won’t sanction the idea that one should alter the way they play a game because developers walked back on certain things that made a series what it is.

Oh give me a break, this is the kind of toxic attitude that gives gamers the negative sterotypes they deserve.  Does the fact that other people are able to enjoy a game better now really offend you?  Do you lose your **** like this when the Super Guide or Golden Leaf appears in a modern Mario game because people were able to skip hard sections without getting good at them now?  The game can still be played just like the previous installments, just now people who aren't as good as you have help to enjoy them better.

Seriously, the warp rooms in this game are some of the least offenses optional features to help people as you can get.  At least the Super Guide and Golden Leaf allowed players to outright skip sections or make the platforming much easier.  In Samus Returns the players still have to do everything themselves including kill all the bosses which the later ones are some of the hardest in 2D Metroid history.  It's not an easy mode or level skipper, it's literally just fast travel, that's it.

Plus it's not affecting the game in any single way.  The linear structure of the game is there because the original Metroid 2 was also a linear game.  This isn't a remake of Super which is what you seemed to have wanted.  Of course they made each area bigger and added in a lot more non-linear sections in each area to explore then the original Metroid 2 so it is a major improvement from the original game in that regard.  But at the end of the day they were still trying to be somewhat accurate to the original game in it's structure for better or worse, which is kind of what remakes do.
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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2017, 08:27:53 AM »
Does the fact that other people are able to enjoy a game better now really offend you?
That’s a straw man.
Quote
Do you lose your **** like this when the Super Guide or Golden Leaf appears in a modern Mario game because people were able to skip hard sections without getting good at them now?
And this is false equivalence for pretty much the exact reason you explain in your post: The Super Guide and Golden Leaf effectively play the game for people. These things aren’t remotely the same thing.
Quote
Plus it's not affecting the game in any single way.
It is. The warp points in Samus Returns are built in the level design. Nintendo and MercurySteam changed so much from Metroid II yet decided to keep the linear level design which is one of the worst design choices in that game. Levels designed in a way that backtracking doesn’t feel like a chore is good game design. There are parts in Metroid Prime where Retro Studios didn’t get that right, and it’s one of he best games of all time.

But I really don’t want to spend a lot of time on this, mostly because I’m just tired of your condescending tone.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2017, 08:40:59 PM »
Sorry to bump this, but 1) I didn't want to see this topic end on a negative note (hope you guys don't have animosity towards one another in our small, humble community), and 2) I wanted to share my review I wrote.

It's hard for me to get the formatting right when transposing my blog posts to NWR's forums, so I hope a link will do this time. Anyway, I didn't have a high regard for Metroid II, but that was only because I played it much later from its original release. This re-imagining was overall great to me, but the lack of being able to collect almost everything until the end of the game soured me. You needed to get the last thing in the game to fully explore the previous areas.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2017, 10:37:45 AM »
So, from what people have said about this game, is it safe to say it's more of a re-imagining than a remake?

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2017, 09:24:42 AM »
Sorry to bump this, but 1) I didn't want to see this topic end on a negative note (hope you guys don't have animosity towards one another in our small, humble community), and 2) I wanted to share my review I wrote.
1. I don’t have any animosity toward anyone on NWR. There’s too much going on in the world to hate randos on the internet. Still, I’m not a fan of condescension. Luigi Dude has a habit being aggressive and downright disrespectful, and I’m not about to sit here and let someone talk down to me. Homie don’t play that.
2. Nice review. It pretty much echoes how I feel about the game.
So, from what people have said about this game, is it safe to say it's more of a re-imagining than a remake?
This depends on how you’re defining those words and how much the definitions matter to you. They’re mostly interchangeable to me, and I use them as such depending on how much I’m paying attention. I suppose, as far as video games are concerned

Remake = completely updated graphics and/or sound (to separate it from a port), game is largely the same otherwise (e.g gameplay, level design, art etc.)
Reimagining = core concepts and some story beats carried over, everything else is completely updated
Reboot = kept the name, everything is different, may include cheeky references

With that in mind, I guess Samus Returns is a reimagining, but I think it’s still fair to call it a remake or expanded remake if you want to get more specific. Personally, I wouldn’t get caught up in the semantics. I think Samus Returns is meant to replace Return of Samus as the definitive Metroid II. It messes with the series lore and overall narrative.

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Re: Metroid: Samus Returns 3DS
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2017, 11:57:53 AM »
Luigi Dude has a habit being aggressive and downright disrespectful, and I’m not about to sit here and let someone talk down to me. Homie don’t play that.

Oh give me a break.  Your the one that started it this disrespectful remark toward me.

Metroid purest can just ignore them and aren't required to use them at all.
I cringe every time I see this reasoning. It’s classic Nintendo apologism. Suggesting people should avoid or ignore things developers put into their games is asinine.

All I said in my original post was teleport rooms were an optional feature that people can ignore.  I wasn't insulting anyone, just stating a fact that this feature is optional and going to be in upcoming Metroid games because it's there to make the series more accessible now.  Your the one that then decided to be disrespectful and condescending to me by saying my remarks were just Nintendo apologism.  If you're going to act that way then don't be surprised if I call you out for this kind toxic behavior.


Sorry to bump this, but 1) I didn't want to see this topic end on a negative note (hope you guys don't have animosity towards one another in our small, humble community)

I don't hold any animosity toward Adrock, but I will fight back if personally insulted which he decided to sadly do again in his most recent post.  But even after said insults, I still move on and still have no problem quoting and even agreeing with said members in separate topics.  To me that's the whole point of these forums, they should be where people can say whatever opinion they have.  Even if you violently disagree on one issue, I have no reason to hate the person when we might 100% agree on another.
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