Author Topic: The DEEPEST. STRANGEST. TENSEST. (Official Shin Megami Tensei Thread)  (Read 22079 times)

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Offline Evan_B

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As I'm sure some of you are already aware, Shin Megami Tensei IV Final was announced this week and is quite different from what happens traditionally with the "Final" entries in the series. Rather than being a definitive version of the original SMTIV with added content, Atlus has decided to make a completely new story set within- or should I say, close to- the timeline and events of SMTIV. Judging by how they have been talking about this narrative, it's a little unclear whether or not Flynn's actions from the original game have occurred. There's much talk about factions rising up led by demons during the wars under Tokyo Dome, but also that those events have ended and a new faction never discussed in the original narrative is making an appearance.

The character design of the game looks a bit less reserved than that of IV, which I see as a welcome change. There are also characters returning from IV's narrative (see the green ghost from the initial reveal [warning: spoilers are big if you have not played the original!]). Gameplay tweaks seem to be important in this title as well, such as a refinement of the ally system from the original game, where the player can choose one member from a party of non-demons to assist them in battle, with each member acting as a specific role (one focuses on healing, another on using purchaseable items in battle), and a skill learning system for those characters, too.

If you have nothing to look forward to over the next few months until Atlus announces a localization, you might want to check out the original SMTIV, which is a massive RPG for the 3DS and one of the handheld's best titles. While it has a few flaws (none of which are fatal), it's a long and very impressive game with great scope and scale. Whether you enjoy the narrative of the game or not, you will certainly get your money's worth (even more now that the game is being discounted on the eShop!). I made his thread, of course, to talk about the Final version but I thought it might be a good way to spark up some conversation on the original title as well, which I feel I missed out on a bit after it released.

I'll post some of my impressions of the game shortly.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 07:36:12 PM by Evan_B »
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2015, 05:09:54 PM »

SMT 4 Spoliers Played through 4 and got the law ending, ideally I would have wanted to get the neutral ending (I'm so sorry Isabeau :'( ) but the way you get the neutral ending is so mindbogglingly stupid I didn't bother. I suspect Final takes place very close to the end of the events of SMT 4 but has a slower place, such that on the timeline both games end at around the same place, which would make sense since time moves slower in Tokyo than it does in Mikado. I remember very close to the end there is a quest you can do for some Mikado citizens where you escort a Navarre gone mad from the Kiccigiorgi Forest through Naraku to Cafe Florida where he can live in peace. I assume he died shortly thereafter and became a spooky scary ghost. From the artwork I recognize Noizumi, she was in a few quests and I quite liked her personality, she was practically the only person in the story I felt comfortable being around that wouldn't betray me at earliest possible opportunity. At the last quest in the quest line you save some fairies from a demon and encourage Noizumi to join the fairies and become the Queen of the fairies, I'm not sure if this will feed into the new game, maybe her ability will have something to do with fairies like healing or somethin', or it could be set before this happens.

Despite the neutrality BS I really liked the moral choices in the game, and that unlike Mass Effect where you are either a good guy or just a heartless bastard, in SMT 4 there was a bit more moral ambiguity with God's dictatorship or the freedom of Lucifer's chaos where anyone can become a God if they are strong enough, I tend to lean towards God if there is no neutral option but I know some people swear by chaos. The passage of ethics was an refreshing replacement for a dungeon boss. I went with allowing the abnormally tall person to compete in the competition, accepting the technology into the village and stay with my loved one for the rest of my life in the hope of their recovery.



I didn't get any of the dlc for the game because it didn't seem like a good value proposition but I would be willing to go back to it if someone could argue otherwise. If Final was just a compilation I may have still got it but what we have now is literally the best case scenario. Thing I'm most looking forward to is the music though, 4's soundtrack is phenomenal, far too many good tracks to list all of them but my favourite is the Underground Ikebukuro theme.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2015, 06:51:19 PM »
I haven't bought this game yet. Should I wait for this version instead?

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2015, 07:21:47 PM »
This is a completely different game than the first one, like say if the first game was Ocarina of Time this new game is like Majora's Mask. Shin Megami Tensei 4 is definitely worth playing and I think is on sale pretty much everywhere at the moment.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 07:41:01 PM »
Having played through the game myself, I have little to say about the side quests, which is unfortunate, since they're a nice bulk of the game. However, I became a bit drained by SMTIV as I played through it- the atmosphere and lack of character in the close party of characters made the surprisingly awesome story a bit difficult to trek through. I also took a bit of a break in the middle of the game which was a harsh blow to the momentum.

The opening moments of SMTIV are captivating, in my opinion. The fight through Mikado and revelation of the Overworld were so unlike anything I've seen from an RPG (apologies, I must admit I've never played 1-3) and the bleak tone of the world was very interesting to me. I also thought the story twists and turns were quite good, though the humor mostly fell flat in a majority of the localization. The main group of characters you interact with aren't very fascinating, they exist to serve as extremes to help you make your ultimate decision. It's the extended cast, really that of the entire Overworld, who are really full of character, and that's where the majority of the story takes place, so that's good.

The gameplay was wonderful, though I wish the game didn't assume players are familiar with all the possible demon fusions, because you can miss out on some awesome ones if you don't understand why certain demons are useful despite their pointlessness in battle. The press turn system is delightfully exploitable and punishing, and though it makes the game a bit cheap at times (I struggle to use the term difficulty because most of the hard parts are more trial and error, even with an excellent Flynn build), it also ensures that you are always on your toes, which is a good feeling.

Like TOP said, the soundtrack in this game is out of this world and really adds to the atmosphere, and I would argue the game has some of the best presentation you can find on the system, with glorious art and environmental design. The harshest flaw I can give the game is that, as soon as it opens up, it also becomes extremely ambiguous, and some of it's directions make sense for someone who knows what the Overworld is based off of, but for others might be a bit brutal. Even so, I enjoyed the game enough to lump praise on it and be really excited for this next installment.

I also got a Law ending and I'm looking to do a Neutral ending in my New Game+, which I really believe is exactly how Atlus wanted the game to be played.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2015, 09:11:26 AM »
Just finished watching the livestream, it started with a little trailer...
It appears moon phases are back for this game, where a full moon will make demons more aggressive and less negotiable. There seems to be a bit where Navarre is following you with a green bar on the left side of the screen, not sure what this is, and at least some of it is set in Mikado since you can see the barracks place at 0:55.

After that they went on to show off some gameplay, they fight Medusa and show off some of the new mechanics like the partner system and how demons can get +1,+2,+3 ect skills. Light attacks aren't one hit kill moves anymore just doing regular damage, and smirk has been changed somewhat although to what extent I am unsure.
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/11/shin-megami-tensei-iv-final-will-follow-a-neutral-route-with-multiple-endings/
Also Siliconera has translated some of the details of the livestream, such as Isabeau will return in final and to stay tuned for news about Flynn.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2015, 10:01:54 AM »
Ooooh, moon phases. Nice.

Demons were pretty easy to coerce in IV so I look forward to having to change my strategy.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2015, 06:34:06 AM »
Two tracks uploaded for the new game. Mostly inline with what was in the first game, not that that's a bad thing.



Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2015, 06:32:01 PM »
New trailer from the Japanese Direct 27:05
It's SMT 4 with a new story, new demons, new locations and rebalanced gameplay. Which is exactly what I wanted, can't wait.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 06:34:54 PM by TOPHATANT123 »

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2015, 11:44:57 AM »
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201511/17092881.html
Isabeau will return as a main character in SMT 4 Final. Flynn, Jonathan and Walter will also be featured but to what extent is unknown.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2015, 01:16:00 PM »
I think we're the only people that really care enough to post about this game anymore, but this announcement has me hella pumped.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2015, 02:35:43 PM »
My favourite bit about the first one is how it deceives you into thinking the game is more limited than it actually is. It gives you the standard set up of a dungeon to explore, shops to buy items and a place to get quests. The ball starts rolling when you find a handgun in one of the rooms, then one thing leads to another and you find your self standing on that bridge looking over the city. The music is sombre and gives off an air of dispair, but it's also eerily calm. The training wheels come off and the game stops telling you where to go, you want to know how to cross the bridge? Well work it out yourself bitch. The way it conceals it's hand until a fair way into the game then springs on all this atmosphere at once, from that point onwards I was completely engrossed and immersed in this world until the very end.

I doubt Final will be able to pull this off as effectively since I not going to fall for the same trick twice now, but I'm very interested to see what they pull off.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2015, 01:37:21 PM »
I enjoyed that part of the first game as well, despite having known about the early game plot twist. The atmosphere was enough to sell me on the whole package, and I actually enjoyed the later plot twists that I was not expecting. However, I'm looking forward to going into this one completely green (pardon the pun), and I'm also excited  to see how the characters of this game interact with those of the first title, and I'm really hope the game has a bit more personality in the dialogue, which was the weakest aspect of the order game, in my opinion.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2015, 01:27:05 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xWuJe9YKB8
16 mins of footage showing off some of the new additions, although I don't think a game like SMT comes across well in a video, if you want to understand what's so great about it you really need to play it for yourself.

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2015, 05:00:10 PM »

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2015, 01:23:36 PM »
I'm hoping we get a Mt. Silver going and have to face Flynn in the end.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2015, 09:20:01 AM »
Opening Cutscene
I recall 4 did actually have cutscenes but they were just still images and voice acting, like the gauntlet scene. For Final it looks like there will be much more animation.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2015, 02:39:11 PM »
Looks like it's trying to be just as bleak as the first, although the original had this feeling of "looking in from the outside," if you know what I mean.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2015, 07:40:40 PM »
Yes, at the start of your journey in the black samurai arc it reinforces the idea that it isn't your problem, that you have a mission to do and when you've completed it return to Mikado as fast as possible. It positions you as a clean man in the kingdom of filth. Then later in the game particularly in the reverse hills section as well as the blazing/ blasted sections, I sort of started to feel a responsibility for the city.

I got up to the RFN episode in my backlog where Guilllaume talks about SMT 4 and his annoyance with the river quest where you have to talk to the random guy in the bar to trigger the next story event, I had completely forgotten about that but yeah that was total bullshit and easily the worst part of the whole game. A dude asks a group dressed in samurai attire what they are up to, and so the obvious response as an outsider on a secret mission would be to lie and not tell him. But if you do that the demon you need to cross the river won't spawn and you have to go back and agree to tell him your story. That's just bad game design.



Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2015, 11:49:12 AM »
This epic is NOT sweet!


Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2015, 11:21:40 PM »
I found out Devil Survivor: Overclocked would be going on sale and...





Anyway... I realised I needed a palette cleaner for the monolithic beast that is Xenoblade Chronicles X or else I would go out of my mind, actually thinking I was on A WHOLE DIFFERENT PLANET. So I got Devil Survivor (aka DS haha very funny), I've put about 5 hours into it and have thoroughly enjoyed it thus far. It's a megaten strategy RPG that works surprisingly well with lots of depth. It doesn't have the quite the addictive simplistic brilliance of SMT 4 but I would say from what I've seen so far it has deeper more engaging combat than all of the megaten games I've played so far, you have to worry about spacing and how you want to divide up exp as well as lots of risk/reward stuff that encourage you to think more strategicly instead of going straight for the kill. The story has me hooked and has a really unique setup but I think saying anymore would spoil the experience for anyone who hasn't played yet. It's almost entirely voice acted which is a real treat for such an RPG especially on the 3DS. My only complaint is that the music seems mixed a bit too low and there isn't a way to change it, maybe it would sound better with headphones.

Offline Oedo

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2015, 08:02:19 PM »
I actually got Devil Survivor from the sale and started a few days ago too. I just got into the MegaTen series this year with Strange Journey and IV, and DS isn't hitting me the same way. Those games had me hooked instantly and wanting to go back for both the story and the gameplay, but the only reason I wanna play DS is to see how the story unfolds. The combat feels unsatisfying for some reason and I can't really figure out why. I'm still only on day 2 and maybe it'll become more satisfying once they ratchet up the difficulty (and using all the mechanics as effectively as possible becomes more important), but I think this style of MegaTen game just isn't for me. If nothing else it's made me realize how much I enjoy the dungeon crawling and combat of the other two games and has me more excited for IV Final.

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2015, 11:58:12 PM »
I'm up to day 3 so far and there does seem to be a gentler difficulty curve than IV, since there isn't an immediate push back from the difficulty it doesn't give you as much drive as IV would. My favourite part was the very beginning in Naraku where you had to fight tooth and nail to get a foothold, but that's not quite there at the start of DS:O. I have found that later in the game you do have to think more strategically though, I build a team that looks really powerful then I get out on the field and get torn to shreds, then scrape by with reinforcements.

It's important to consider the cracks, you want a good moveset for your characters for the long term but in the short term you could fail the mission because you were faffing about trying to get one guy in one place so that he could do a thing and not get killed doing it. You can destroy an enemy unit by going straight for the middle one, but if you do that you won't receive macca, exp or magnetite for the other two. You could always grind it out in free battle but you only fill up the magnetite bar in story missions, this resource allows you to put any skill you have previously cracked onto a demon.

I have found the racial skills like devil speed, bind, evil wave ect to be real tide turners especially when there are extra objectives. But when fusing demons the new demon will always be of a different race with a new racial skill so there is no straight linear progression where you get a demon and keep making it stronger, rather you have to bounce around different paths keeping your group balanced.

It also feels more stat orientated then other MegaTen games, like the difference between strength 5 and 10 feels larger. In SMT 4 if a demon had an elemental magic the demon would be universally useful since it could give you extra turns on the press turn bar, but in Overclocked you have to keep fusing until you get something with good stats and good abilities that complement the rest of your team.

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2016, 05:38:15 PM »
I've been just plowing away at Devil Survivor: Overclocked and Xenoblade X over the past few weeks and I feel like I am at the very end of Devil Survivor assuming there isn't some big twist or post game content.

I have found it to be the most challenging Megaten I have played so far out of SMT 4, Persona 1 and Persona 2: Innocent Sin. The moment to moment battles are perhaps less punishing than the other games but there is a massive time commitment to each strategic battle so ideally you want to get it right first time, in SMT 4 you could save after every battle and any battle wouldn't last more than a few minutes.

Another thing is just the number of moving parts there are in the design of the game that you as the player can influence to get past the trials presented to you, say in SMT 4 you had your own build that you had to manage with weapons and armour, and also had to manage a handful of demons that have a nice distribution of strengths and weaknesses so you could handle anything the game throws at you. In Devil Survivor you have like a minimum of 3 customisable leaders, at least 6 demons deployed at any one time with ideally plenty of backup if one gets knocked out, each has a racial skill which is incredibly valuable making letting go of demons for fusion really painful, MP gets really important later in the game and there isn't really a solution to getting it back, you have to micromanage the development of skills through the cracking system and plenty of different objectives it can throw at you. It's complicated and maybe loses the addictiveness of your typical dungeon crawler for this reason, but as I said in my opinion it is more challenging than it is hard, which is a good thing. I'd say Persona 1 is hard but not necessarily very challenging, Persona 2 Innocent Sin is too easy to be fun, and SMT 4 has a backwards difficulty curve.

I'm currently kinda stuck so if anyone who has beaten the game could help me out...

I'm at the battle with Belberith on the "server" route, In my party I have Atsuro, Yuzu and Amane, all around level 54ish. The dude just one shots almost everyone before I even get to him with his infinite range, the followers have difficult to deal with combinations of demons with lots of reflects and absorb abilities and just annoying racial skills that make progress slow all the while Belberith is one shotting fools left right and centre. I don't get what I'm even supposed to do,  he altleast has a weakness unlike some of the bosses so if I get to him I should be alright, but I can't even do that.

Edit: OK forget that I finished that battle quite easily using Phantasm and flight but now I'm stuck on the very last battle which is just a living hell. I don't know what to say this is just impossible Jesus Christ.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 08:36:12 AM by TOPHATANT123 »

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: The FINAL Shin Megami Tensei IV thread! (SMTIV/SMTIVF Discussion)
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2016, 06:47:08 PM »
OK forget about ALL that, the final boss is actually really easy if you know what you're doing. It had nothing to do with levels and was purely about strategy, if I could go back and tell myself how exactly to balance out offense and defence I would have finished it first try. Got 23% achievement-wise on my initial run and I'm considering replaying it, all in all a great game.