Author Topic: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath  (Read 9082 times)

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Offline oksoda

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Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« on: February 02, 2013, 07:45:58 PM »

Fire Emblem: Awakening lets you turn off permadeath. Here's why you shouldn't.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/33199

Ricken was always looking for a way to prove himself to the others. The youngest member of the Shepherds, he was often overlooked when preparing for battle. “Stay here, it’s too dangerous for you,” he would hear time and time again. Still, he was a mage of remarkable skill, and, disobeying direct orders, he made his ability known by sneaking on to the battlefield during a particularly harrowing encounter. His mastery of wind magic turned the tides in the favor of the Shepherds that afternoon, and he was from then on welcomed into battle alongside his countrymen. Though he struggled with the idea of snuffing out the lives of other people, he willed himself forward in order to protect his friends. Ricken was a fiercely loyal, compassionate boy far beyond his years.

And I watched him die.

In my playthrough of Fire Emblem Awakening, I read the last words of a number of characters I had come to know, and each time I would do the same exact thing: close my eyes, tilt my head up toward the ceiling, let out an elongated four-letter word, and turn the 3DS off. Then, I would immediately turn the system back on and attempt to change the fate of the character I had charged into death’s grasp. For the first time in North America, players can choose to bypass creating their own similar ritual by turning permadeath off completely. Objectively, I applaud the decision to make Fire Emblem more accessible to those who might be scared off by the thought of losing characters forever. Personally, though, I think Casual Mode fundamentally strips Fire Emblem of its most unique feature: the tragedy and exuberance of choice.

I sat and stared at the stats of an attack and counter attack for minutes, literally minutes, with my thumb hovering over the A Button, completely frozen, countless times during the game. With less than a 100% chance to hit, there was a possibility I would fail to deliver the final blow to a weakened enemy. More worrisome was the chance he had to strike me back and kill me, causing me to perform the same order of actions I detailed earlier. I watched the percentiles display across the screen, immune to my will. I looked over the map, trying to see if other characters might possibly be able to reach the enemy and more assuredly kill him. With no luck, I settled back on those imperfect percentiles. Finally, I closed my eyes, pressed the A Button, and listened. Would I hear the sound of metal slicing through armor on impact, or the fleeting tune of an enemy sidestepping my advance?

Sure, I was angry if a strategy failed and I had to restart the level, but those lows never matched the absolute joy I felt when a gamble paid off. Each and every time one of my characters executed a low-chance attack or dodged a fatal strike, dread was instantly replaced by elation. I had survived. Eventually, I watched Awakening’s credits roll, and was given brief synopses of what each character went on to do after saving the world. Though the quality of each varied, I was able to give every character I met a future.

As great as Casual Mode is for being more welcoming to new players, it removes the weight of the characters’ lives from your shoulders, which Fire Emblem so expertly creates. Unlike StarCraft or Command & Conquer, which are built around losing countless identical soldiers, and even XCOM, whose losable troops are merely blank slates that level up, Fire Emblem features a variety of characters with distinct backgrounds and motivations. Moreover, the new relationship system allows you to learn even more about characters as they begin to trust, confide in, and even love each other. The death of a character is felt, not merely on the battlefield, but throughout the game. What conversations are lost entirely when one character fails to return home?

If you aren’t trying to protect your heroes while you play Fire Emblem, then why play at all? Sure, the main story is interesting, but Casual Mode eliminates the stories you create for yourself on the battlefield; the moments of uncertainty that miraculously unfold in your favor. And what of the tactical and strategic elements Fire Emblem is known for? Without the penalty of death, what’s to stop players from blindly marching their mass of resurrecting units down the map toward the enemy without any pause for concern? Casual Mode is a guided tour through the world of Awakening; you’ll see everything, but experience nothing.

If you absolutely can’t imagine playing Fire Emblem Awakening with permadeath on, then I’ll concede that you should go ahead and use Casual Mode. But, if you are flirting with the possibility of leaving it on, I wholly urge you to do so. The real challenge of Awakening isn’t simply beating the game, it’s protecting your characters through constant peril; literally shepherding the Shepherds. Awakening is an entirely unique experience when your every choice carries consequence. You are doing yourself a disservice by missing it.


Offline diaglyph

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 08:40:15 PM »
I just have to say that this will probably be the first Fire Emblem I'll be able to play!! I've tried playing the GameCube version, Wii version and DS version, but I encountered the same road block: permadeath. No matter how many times I tried I would always lose a person. There are so many times I can accept getting kicked in the balls!!
I will be playing this new one in Casual Mode. From what I read, when a character dies they won't be usable until you get to the next chapter. This still adds an element of difficulty.
In the latest Iwata Asks on Fire Emblem, it's obvious the developers have accepted and moved on with regards to permadeath. I just wish the more vocal fanboys out there would pipe down: permadeath is there, if you enjoy that option ignore Casual mode and enjoy. I can now turn it off and enjoy the game my way :)

Offline Vahne

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 09:34:03 PM »
Permadeath will always be the best way to play for me, it's one of the elements that makes Fire Emblem what it is, but if Casual mode brings more players then oh well. Fire Emblem fans like myself can continue to play Classic mode and enjoy the game the way it's meant to be played, while the newbies can still enjoy the game with the casual setting. Casual mode could also be good for those technical SRPG gamers who want to complete Reverse Lunatic mode without having to worry about TOO much difficulty caused by permadeath (it'll still be pretty hard).

Offline Oblivion

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 10:17:50 PM »
Kotaku brought up a good point a couple days ago: permadeath is completely pointless when 95% of people who'se characters die will simply restart their save file. "Casual mode" is the same exact thing, but without having to restart the level and potentially losing hours of work.


You should either do Casual Mode, or take it like a man when your characters die.

Offline Shaymin

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 11:05:16 PM »
As someone who has never played beyond the tutorial of a Fire Emblem, I must sadly disregard this advice for the sake of my own sanity.


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Offline broodwars

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 11:06:10 PM »
Kotaku brought up a good point a couple days ago: permadeath is completely pointless when 95% of people who'se characters die will simply restart their save file. "Casual mode" is the same exact thing, but without having to restart the level and potentially losing hours of work.


You should either do Casual Mode, or take it like a man when your characters die.

Indeed. Sorry, but over the course of beating 4 Fire Emblem games, I've probably wasted enough time restarting entire chapters due to character death to complete 2 Tales of _____ games.  I have neither the time nor the patience for that B.S. anymore, so if I play the new Fire Emblem I'm playing the game in Casual mode. I've already served my time in Hell playing Fire Emblem "the right way", thank you, but you can waste countless hours voluntarily torturing yourself if that's what you want.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 11:17:12 PM »
Permadeath doesn't mean anything if you're just going to restart the mission when it happens. Accepting that the character died and moving on without them is way more of a real emotional situation than cursing and starting again, which is just needless frustration. From what I understand, in the modern games there are enough characters that you'll be fine completing the game even having lost a few.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 11:43:16 PM »
Having permadeath on makes me a far more considerate commander. I will still restart if I lose somebody, but that happens so rarely it's not an issue. Even in the Advanced Wars games I try my upmost to keep casualties to a minimum even though the troops are the epitome of expendable.
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 12:08:36 AM »
I agree with others that the emotional punch isn't really there when you have the ability to just restart. But, from a gameplay perspective, it still makes you play more carefully. Not necessarily because you don't want someone to die, but because you don't want to have to restart too many times. Either way, you play more carefully, you weigh your options more heavily, and you try to exploit things in a smarter way. It may not be emotional, but it does sort of unlock the potential of the gameplay systems. It adds a greater depth simply because in casual moe you're ok with making mistakes. You don't mind if someone dies, and you don't necessarily care about getting through the match in a more tactical way.


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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 01:23:52 AM »
But permadeath is just overkill if thats what youre trying to give a player.
Should i be punished for losing 6 units in a battle, yes
should i be punished for losing one unit because that soldier over there got a critical hit or that i forgot to heal him when im dealing with fifteen other units as well
Permadeath is just a poor way to achieve that idea

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 02:57:37 AM »
You are being punished for being careless and taking on far too much risk. It really doesn't matter how many units are on the board as you have all the time in the world to consider your moves. I hope I never play chess with you seeing you throw such a fit over a videogame.
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Offline Nintendad

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 10:54:07 AM »
I've played through both both console Fire Emblem games and part of Sacred Stones. I can tell you the first thing I'm doing when I get this game next week is turning off the permadeath. I'm just like 90% of everyone else in that the first thing I did when I lost someone in the previous games was to reset the game. At times it was could be highly frustrating, especially if you had just played an hour. I don't need the aggravation, and would rather not waste the time by playing with permadeaths on. I'm going to enjoy it just as much as I did before, probably even more knowing I don't have that added stress.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 11:41:44 AM »
The bitterness of defeat makes victory that much the sweeter.
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 12:24:36 PM »
I've played through both both console Fire Emblem games and part of Sacred Stones. I can tell you the first thing I'm doing when I get this game next week is turning off the permadeath. I'm just like 90% of everyone else in that the first thing I did when I lost someone in the previous games was to reset the game. At times it was could be highly frustrating, especially if you had just played an hour. I don't need the aggravation, and would rather not waste the time by playing with permadeaths on. I'm going to enjoy it just as much as I did before, probably even more knowing I don't have that added stress.


And you should. If permadeath frustrates you that much you should definitely turn it off. Since Intelligent Systems wisely gave everyone the option, people should play it the way they'll have the most fun with it.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 12:47:46 PM »
What about permadeath in Zombi U? It's not a drastic as Fire Emblem, but you do feel it a bit.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 01:38:20 PM »
This will be the very first Fire Emblem game that I actually attempt to play, so while I can understand purist's point of views on permadeath, as an individual I can't wait to take advantage of casual mode.

...but, I think I'm a bit bit of an odd duck in this case. I intend to play with casual mode off, but 95% of the time I'll probably restart my game if a character dies. I'm sort of the same way in Tower Defense games: I'll refuse to move forward in the game unless I can "perfect" a level even though that's not a condition of winning. I guess I don't want the finality of permadeath closing off my options. I will try to play the game without losing any characters, but if I do reach a point where some characters die, I want to restart the level as a matter of my own choices, obsession, and principles, not out of the game punching me in the gut.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 02:08:11 PM »
You are being punished for being careless and taking on far too much risk.

The vast majority of times I've lost a character in Fire Emblem, it's because I got RNG-screwed.  Things would be going just fine, and then an enemy would trigger their 10% chance of a critical hit while my character triggered their 10% chance of missing.  I've lost characters due to carelessness before, but most of the time it's been random chance that's perma-killed my characters after hours of play.  Yeah, I think I can do without that.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2013, 06:35:19 PM »
You are being punished for being careless and taking on far too much risk. It really doesn't matter how many units are on the board as you have all the time in the world to consider your moves. I hope I never play chess with you seeing you throw such a fit over a videogame.

excuse me if im sick of having to restart a chapter over because of a slight oversight.

i admire what they are trying to accomplish but it doesn't work, people dont just continue on in the game and build the rest of the team around that void they restart the chapter and keep hammering away until everybody lives

casual mode gets you to the same goal without such annoyances allowing you to save time.

and does it add to the strategic element, no.. it does not, i still want every unit on the field so they can gain experience. if a unit dies they lose the chance to gain experience. and if you drop your guys like flies every time soon enough you'll reach a point where only three-five of your units are worth a damn and everyone else is a level one meat-shield.

with permadeath the same thing would happen only without a bunch of meat-shields

like broodwars the rng has screwed me as well. along with.. i-dunno a lack of ability to keep 100% attention because its a PORTABLE GAME. do i need to make a little checklist for every turn?
____________________________________________
ch 15 move 13
-retreat erika to the armory
-have gilliam use pure water
-have joshua face the wyvern knight with lancereaver
_______________________________________________
believe it or not sacred stones is my third most played game on the system solely because of restarting chapters

and trust me, i am much calmer when playing the game. its just after a while ******** like that loses it's welcome

Offline Vahne

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2013, 08:44:37 PM »
Personally I think of it as this: Fire Emblem is a game. And since it's a game, I'm going to take advantage of the fact that I can restart. I know plenty of people find it frustrating to have to restart, and I do as well. However, I find that I can learn from my mistakes better if I can give it another go right away. Playing casual mode would make me a little more lax in my strategies and would risk suicidal tactics more often, since I know the character would come back.

Offline Stogi

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2013, 09:53:21 PM »
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how difficult it becomes to recruit a new character with permanent death on. And that's a good thing.
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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2013, 11:47:45 PM »
You are being punished for being careless and taking on far too much risk.

The vast majority of times I've lost a character in Fire Emblem, it's because I got RNG-screwed.  Things would be going just fine, and then an enemy would trigger their 10% chance of a critical hit while my character triggered their 10% chance of missing.  I've lost characters due to carelessness before, but most of the time it's been random chance that's perma-killed my characters after hours of play.  Yeah, I think I can do without that.
So, you play the game balls out. Interesting. Me? I'm a safe and sound kind of FE player. I hold back until I can strike at just the right moment. It's how I've done things since the very first North American release of FE, and it's how I intend to play Awakening, too.  With that said...

Permadeath ON. :)
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 12:43:46 AM »
Two words "Contingency plans".
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Offline pololmejor

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 01:00:05 AM »
I need RPG's in my life NOW!!!!!!!!!

Offline broodwars

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 01:04:09 AM »
So, you play the game balls out. Interesting. Me? I'm a safe and sound kind of FE player. I hold back until I can strike at just the right moment.

I'm pretty much the same way, actually, though the way Bonus Experience works in the GameCube/Wii versions required me to be more "run & gun" as it were. The problems come when the enemy masses at one or two particular allies & gets exceptionally lucky. Bosses too, for that matter (who seem to be the ones who always get the Critical Hit rolls).
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2013, 02:44:36 PM »
I highly doubt the original intent of permadeath was "then the suckers will have to restart the chapter from the beginning every time!  HA HA HA!"  The idea was that characters will die and it will be part of the experience, to add emotional weight.  You're supposed to lose characters.  But these things don't always go the way the devs want.  Gamers can be very dedicated completists and will restart things to get a perfect run.  So casual mode is really just accomodating that type of player.  If you insist on not losing anybody, then play with this mode and save yourself a lot of hassle.

Though I think permadeath is a better feature in a game of relatively short length, where you would be encouraged to play multiple times.  Fire Emblem is too long to really make the concept enjoyable to the player.

At the very least they did not get rid of it.  Options are good.  Nintendo could just as easily removed permadeath for EVERYONE.  This is the company that will force waggle and Blue Shells and tripping in SSB down our throats and they didn't do that here.