Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Chozo Ghost]

Guitar Hero and Call of Duty were their big franchises this gen and both appeared on the Wii.

Activision is going to port every Call of Duty game to every platform available.

I see your point about Activision doing more to support the Wii with actual quality games than most 3rd parties. But it should be said that MW2 didn't come to the Wii. That was the biggest game of 2009, and completely absent from the Wii. COD 3, World at War, Black Ops, MW1/Reflex, and now MW3 all came to the Wii, but MW2 is a very noticeable absence. I guess that's probably more the fault of the developer Infinity Ward, though, than Activision.

It also needs to be said that we have not yet seen any COD game at all on the 3DS hardware. MW3 came out in November, so it could have been released on the 3DS. Maybe they just felt the install base isn't large enough yet to warrant the effort? Whatever the reason, I hope they will bring COD to it sooner or later. For the 3DS to become the de facto dominant handheld system, having the best selling series of all time on it is essential.

[Kairon]

Dear Activision,

I will be there on day 1 for COD Wii U, just like I was for every COD for the Wii.

[Stogi]

I wouldn't get MW3. That game is a tragedy.

[Caterkiller]

I wonder if COD will be the outrageous seller next gen as it is today. What was it last gen for home consoles GTA?

What ever the case I will undoubtedly get my first COD on Wii U and contribute to the madness.

[Chozo Ghost]

I wonder if COD will be the outrageous seller next gen as it is today. What was it last gen for home consoles GTA?

What ever the case I will undoubtedly get my first COD on Wii U and contribute to the madness.

GTA is still huge, in fact Michael Pachter (if you can believe anything he says) has said there is a good chance GTA V might dethrone COD this year.

[Kytim89]

With Resident Evil Revelations being as finacially successful as it is right now the chances of Resident Evil 6 being on the Wii U have went dramtically up.

[Spak-Spang]

I have been thinking about the Nintendo image problem and how sometimes "hardcore" games don't come over the Nintendo or don't sell well.  Everyone starts by blaming Nintendo for this...but actually I am beginning to think Developers have a lot of the blame.  From making games inferior on Nintendo's platform, from making the games come out after the other systems games have come out and basically making the games gimped.

Well developers, if you want to change the image of Nintendo for traditional gamers, it can easily be done at the launch of the Wii U.  Bring your A game from the beginning and don't just bring out ports of games already out. 

If Wii U launches with RE6, GTA 5, COD, Arkham City with some juicy exclusive content (several new levels and bosses)

And if Nintendo gets Pikmin, and a good racing game (F-Zero please)...We could have a fairly good launch lineup.

But if all we get is mini games again, and half arced crap...then developers you did this to yourself again.

[Chozo Ghost]

I remember when Reggie managed to talk Rockstar into making GTA: Chinatown wars on the DS. From what I understand the sales of that game failed to meet expectations, and consequently Rockstar later ported the game to the PSP. With that experience in mind, I wonder if Rockstar would ever be willing to bring a GTA game to Nintendo hardware again. By all rights the game should have sold better than it did. Its not like the DS doesn't have an enormous install base or anything...

I personally bought the game when it came out and it was an awesome game. It wasn't until recently that I was able to play GTA IV and compare the two, but aside from the graphics, the DS version does an extremely good job of replicating the experience in handheld form. So it was a great game. I can't think of any good reason why the game didn't sell better than it did. Maybe the marketing wasn't good enough. I don't know.

[noname2200]

I remember when Reggie managed to talk Rockstar into making GTA: Chinatown wars on the DS. From what I understand the sales of that game failed to meet expectations, and consequently Rockstar later ported the game to the PSP. With that experience in mind, I wonder if Rockstar would ever be willing to bring a GTA game to Nintendo hardware again. By all rights the game should have sold better than it did. Its not like the DS doesn't have an enormous install base or anything...

I personally bought the game when it came out and it was an awesome game. It wasn't until recently that I was able to play GTA IV and compare the two, but aside from the graphics, the DS version does an extremely good job of replicating the experience in handheld form. So it was a great game. I can't think of any good reason why the game didn't sell better than it did. Maybe the marketing wasn't good enough. I don't know.

If memory serves, the two PSP GTA ports prior to CT did pretty well, but CT itself sold like octogenarian porn at a pedo convention. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but judging from the game's sales across all systems, you're in the minority. Not a huge surprise though, since it harkened back to the style of the first two titles, whereas the series only got big starting with the shift in III.

[Ian Sane]

I remember when Reggie managed to talk Rockstar into making GTA: Chinatown wars on the DS. From what I understand the sales of that game failed to meet expectations, and consequently Rockstar later ported the game to the PSP. With that experience in mind, I wonder if Rockstar would ever be willing to bring a GTA game to Nintendo hardware again. By all rights the game should have sold better than it did. Its not like the DS doesn't have an enormous install base or anything...

I personally bought the game when it came out and it was an awesome game. It wasn't until recently that I was able to play GTA IV and compare the two, but aside from the graphics, the DS version does an extremely good job of replicating the experience in handheld form. So it was a great game. I can't think of any good reason why the game didn't sell better than it did. Maybe the marketing wasn't good enough. I don't know.

Personally I wasn't in the mood for a DS GTA.  I wanted the REAL GTA games on the Wii.  Handheld versions of popular consoles series always come across as unessential filler product, even if they turn out decent.  When Nintendo fans said "we want GTA" what they were saying was "hey, we're missing out on this series which is on every system but the Gamecube (and then later the Wii).  What the ****, Nintendo?"  Reggie interpreted this as a GTA game on the DS.  Who the **** wanted that?  Hell, there was a GTA Advance but exactly ZERO Nintendo fans were satisfied by that.  The DS has good third party support and we're cool with it.  But the Wii is getting jerked around like the Gamecube was with numerous games coming to Sony's and Microsoft's console but not ours.

Chinatown Wars came across as a token effort to pacify fans complaining about weak third party support.  It was not what I wanted and it could have gotten perfect 10s all around and I still would not have bought it because I buy what I WANT not what Nintendo or Rockstar decides to give me.  I didn't buy Dead Space: Extraction for the same reason.  In retrospect I probably would have felt the same about The Twin Snakes on the Gamecube (PS2 gets a new MGS and we get a prettier port of a PS1 game, what the ****?) but at the time I had not been worn out by this kind of nonsense yet.

Reggie blew Nintendo's big chance to be chummy with Rockstar by asking for a game no one wanted.  He should have gotten a Wii GTA game made - one that plays like the main GTA series.  And even if he did that he should have done it years before when everyone who wanted GTA on a Nintendo system had not already given up on the Wii and bought another system.  Timing is everything.

[Adrock]

Personally I wasn't in the mood for a DS GTA.  I wanted the REAL GTA games on the Wii.  Handheld versions of popular consoles series always come across as unessential filler product, even if they turn out decent.

I respectfully disagree with this statement. It sounds more like your issue is with handheld games being on a handheld than the actual games being "unessential filler."

When Nintendo fans said "we want GTA" what they were saying was "hey, we're missing out on this series which is on every system but the Gamecube (and then later the Wii).  What the ****, Nintendo?"  Reggie interpreted this as a GTA game on the DS.  Who the **** wanted that?

I really don't think that's how it went down. What Reggie did was nothing short of a miracle. The alternative was nothing. Of course, he would have wanted a major seller like GTA on the Wii. He's a businessman and GTA is a big deal. I'd bet the issue came up but he has no say in what Rockstar develops. Selling Rockstar on releasing a game on the more popular and cheaper to develop for DS was probably the backbone of Reggie's pitch. It was that or nothing. Reggie was probably banking on Nintendo fans to support the game which would give him leverage in negotiating a Wii title. If there was an audience for mature titles on Nintendo hardware (which seems to be a major concern for 3rd parties), Reggie would have some leverage in negotiating a more expensive production.

There's a limit to what one man can accomplish when the odds are stacked so highly against him. You said Reggie should have "gotten them to make a Wii game." How? Unless he convinced Iwata to fund the game for Rockstar, that was probably not going to happen. Using DS as a springboard for future support was a logical tactic. It just didn't work because despite the quality of Chinatown Wars, the game didn't sell well enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if Reggie negotiated GTA V for Wii U. The console has at least a year or 2 with comparable hardware specs. Rockstar doesn't have to make an entirely separate game for Nintendo nor does Reggie have to sell them on making one. Selling Rockstar on a port of the game should be easy for a businessman of Reggie's caliber. It's low risk, high reward. Core Nintendo fans need to respond by supporting these games. I know I will. I plan on getting Wii U at launch and even though I have a PS3, I'll probably pick up a Wii U version granted one is available.

[Kairon]

Dear Rockstar,

I will be there Day 1 for GTA 5 Wii U.

P.S. I'm sorry I didn't buy GTA:CTW for the DS...

[Spak-Spang]

Dear Rockstar,

I really want to see GTA on the Wii U.

PS.  I won't buy it but that is because I hate the series...
BUT I know other people will buy it, HONEST!!!

[Lithium]

i bought GTA CTW, it was good but i almost didnt buy it since I (and im pretty sure most nintendo fans) wanted a 3-d GTA in the style they had since 3 and not the top down 2-d ones on the wii.

[TJ Spyke]

I played the original GTA, and had fun for about 5 minutes before I got bored. I am not a fan of the top-down GTA, which is one of the reasons I didn't buy the DS game (or GBA one). I would strongly consider getting the Wii U version of GTA V if there is one (unless the Xbox 360 version is better).

[Chozo Ghost]

Chinatown Wars came across as a token effort

Ian, you said yourself you weren't interested in it just because it was on the DS so I take that to mean you never even played it, so with all due respect you are speaking about something you don't know anything about. I can assure you it was not a "token effort". Chinatown Wars is (or at least was at the time it was released) the largest DS game ever made. The huge map of Liberty City is there. It really pushed the envelope of what the DS hardware was capable of.

Did it have as good graphics as GTA IV on the PS360? No, it didn't. But there was no possible way it could because the hardware couldn't do it, but Rockstar did the best they could, and if you can get past the graphics and lack of voice overs, it really is a good game with a decent story. I have read customer reviews of the game on amazon and there were a lot of people who couldn't get past the graphics and bashed the game solely for that reason. Maybe you are one of them, and if so you probably should avoid the game, but if you can look past that and if you are a GTA fan then you seriously should give the game a chance. I'm sure you can pick it up for cheap these days.

He should have gotten a Wii GTA game made

It would have been pretty much the same thing. The Wii is capable of better graphics than the DS, but it still would have been inferior to the PS360 version. There is also the matter of the controls, which you would probably complain about.

Ian, have you ever played the Godfather on the Wii? That's probably the best sandbox game available for the Wii. Its not GTA, but hell maybe its even better than GTA.

[NWR_insanolord]

Adrock's right here: if Reggie could have gotten a Wii GTA he would have. It wasn't a choice between DS and Wii; it was a choice between DS and nothing. People (especially Ian) need to be careful with false dichotomies. These are complex situations, and it's very rare that it boils down to an either-or choice; sometimes Nintendo has to settle for the best they can get.

[ejamer]

Wow. GTA Chinatown haters out in force.


It's a shame that so many self-proclaimed gamers skipped a top-notch game that garnered consistent critical acclaim (#1 on DS according to Metacritic) because "they weren't in the mood" or were turned off by the graphical style. Going even further to suggest that Chinatown Wars was a "token effort" instead of a serious attempt by Rockstar to create a great version of one of their biggest IPs that would fit the platform limitations is laughable - especially coming from people who didn't bother to play the game.


Normally I'd say it's your loss for missing out on something special... but since Rockstar is unlikely to give two twits about Nintendo systems going forward due to abysmal sales of the games they have released previously, it might be a loss for me too.

If memory serves, the two PSP GTA ports prior to CT did pretty well, but CT itself sold like octogenarian porn at a pedo convention. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but judging from the game's sales across all systems, you're in the minority. Not a huge surprise though, since it harkened back to the style of the first two titles, whereas the series only got big starting with the shift in III.

Sales of Chinatown Wars on PSP were terrible by all accounts, but weren't the strong sales of earlier GTA games related to hacks that allowed gamers to unlock their PSP systems for piracy?  I vaguely remember hearing something about that.

[noname2200]

Sales of Chinatown Wars on PSP were terrible by all accounts, but weren't the strong sales of earlier GTA games related to hacks that allowed gamers to unlock their PSP systems for piracy?  I vaguely remember hearing something about that.

I've never heard that, but that doesn't mean it's not true. I'm skeptical though, because while that might explain the success of one of the ports, it wouldn't really explain the other port.



And as an aside for the general conversation, I'm also unsure why anyone would think that Nintendo, or Reggie specifically, passed on a Wii GTA in favor of a DS one.

[Ian Sane]

I'm just sick of spin-offs of existing franchises made specifically for the "Nintendo audience".  The Wii was full of that crap and Nintendo fans became hostile to that sort of thing really quick.  Remember the huge fuss about Dead Space: Extraction?  Those that play it say it's good but that game was doomed the second it was announced.  The rumour started off as if Dead Space was being ported to the Wii.  Then it became a spin-off and interest waned and then it was revealed to be an on-rails shooter and things got hostile.  We were sick of getting the on-rails shooter spin-off instead of the real thing.  It didn't matter that the reviews were positive or that those that played it said it was good.  The very idea was offensive and insulting.

Chinatown Wars is the same idea.  We don't get the REAL GTA, we get a special spin-off made just for us.  That **** comes across as incredibly patronizing like Nintendo fans aren't capable of playing "real" games and have to have our own game suited for our specific needs.  By the time Chinatown Wars came out the idea of getting a Nintendo-only spin-off was insulting and the reaction was immediately hostile.  When it was debuted at whatever E3 it was the reaction was REALLY negative.  We were sick of having special Nintendo-only products and missing out on the real deal.  No one wanted Chinatown Wars.  It represents everything that pissed us off about third parties this gen, regardless of quality.

Maybe Reggie didn't screw up but Rockstar did by not realizing the hostility for third parties that this "for the Nintendo audience" philosophy had created.  Any third party that is stupid enough to try the same crap on the Wii U is going to have a big bomb on their hands.  The well is poisoned.  You give us some special Wii U version while everyone else gets the "real" game and we're going to throw it back in your face.  We get either the real deal or an exclusive that has no equivalent on the other systems.  Nothing else is acceptable and I am certain nothing else will sell.

[Chozo Ghost]

Chinatown Wars is not an on-rails shooter, or anything analogous to that. It faithfully recreates the GTA gameplay (albeit in top down perspective) as best as it possibly can on the platform. I guess it would be correct to call it a "spin off", but in this case that's not a negative thing. True, Rockstar could have done GTA IV on the DS using the same engine as Chinatown Wars and with the same story and all that, but that would have probably sold even worse because its the same thing most GTA fans already played just with worse graphics. Chinatown Wars is the same setting and gameplay, but with a fresh new story involving a different set of characters. So there is a reason to get it even if you had already played and beaten GTA IV.

BTW, Mario is technically a spin off of Donkey Kong. No one would argue Mario sucks and never should have gotten his own game. So why argue that Huang and the gang from Chinatown wars being a spinoff is a bad thing? Spinoffs aren't necessarily a negative thing. In some cases, spin offs are even better than the original thing they spun from. Another example would be the Simpsons which is a spin off of the Tracy Ullman show... or the Jeffersons which was a spin off of All in the Family.

I agree with your point about on rails shooters, because in cases like that the actual genre of the game is completely transformed. The gameplay is no longer the same. But Chinatown wars isn't like that. It legitimately deserves to be called a real GTA game, and I'm saying this as someone who has played both that and GTA IV. Obviously compromises were made in order for the game to work on the inferior hardware, but it still plays the same.

[Kairon]

I usually pride myself on being part of the solution instead of part of the problem with regards to third party sales on Nintendo platforms. Along these lines I've been rewarded with fun times playing Far Cry, Godfather, Red Steel 2, House of the Dead: Overkill and Dead Space Extraction. But not buying and playing GTA chinatown wars is a blemish on my record... I can't say exactly why! It just never seemed to... capture my excitement.

Could someone describe the gameplay mechanics and narrative themes of the game? Maybe late is netter than never...

[Ian Sane]

Chozo I'm not saying the game is crap, I'm just saying the very nature of it made it a product no one wanted.  Ignore quality, ignore stuff like how Mario is a spin-off of Donkey Kong.  All through this generation Nintendo fans don't get the real thing, we get spin-offs.  By the time Chinatown Wars was announced we were all sick of that ****.  We got burned too often by shitty product made "for the Nintendo audience".  Chinatown Wars was doomed to fail because of the resentment towards third party spin-offs that had built-up over the years.

Another thing to note is that Chinatown Wars was the lone carrot given to core gamers at the infamous Wii Music E3.  Never had Nintendo so utterly pissed off their fanbase.  Unfortunate timing on Rockstar's part (and nothing they could do about it).  At that E3 Nintendo basically told core gamers, the very audience for GTA, that Nintendo didn't care about them.  That's the moment Nintendo lost the core gamers.  So Reggie makes this deal with Rockstar to get this game made and at the E3 it debuts at he scares away the whole target audience.  That whole E3 lineup was grouped together and soundly rejected as a whole.  Core gamers were so upset about Wii Music that the GTA news was lost in the background.

[Adrock]

Ignore quality, ignore stuff like how Mario is a spin-off of Donkey Kong.  All through this generation Nintendo fans don't get the real thing, we get spin-offs.

How can one ignore something like quality? That's the entire point of a product designed to entertain. There's nothing wrong with a spin-off so long as it's fun.

[Kairon]

Dude. I LOVE WII MUSIC.