Poll

Who Should Be Added in the Second DLC Wave?

Shrek
1 (2.5%)
Godzilla
1 (2.5%)
James Bond
1 (2.5%)
James Jones
1 (2.5%)
Super Kong
1 (2.5%)
Tutorial Pig
1 (2.5%)
Who cares? Fox Only, No Items, Final Destination
1 (2.5%)
Your Mom
2 (5%)
Malon
3 (7.5%)
Geno
2 (5%)
Funky Kong
4 (10%)
Reggie
2 (5%)
Iwata
1 (2.5%)
The Playstation All-Stars
1 (2.5%)
Goku
1 (2.5%)
The volleyball from Dead or Alive Xtreme Volleyball
2 (5%)
Nintendo Characters!
6 (15%)
The Mon-Stars from Space Jam
2 (5%)
More 3rd Party Characters!
5 (12.5%)
Sakurai
2 (5%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 21, 2020, 02:36:44 PM

Author Topic: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC  (Read 129558 times)

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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2018, 02:52:08 AM »
I really like the stage hazards.  It's kind of like a different game where it's a contest to avoid getting killed by the stage.

I am very much a tournament style player and love 1vs1's on fairly neutral stages but yes this right here! My little brother and I are(or were) very close in huge part because of Smash Bros but gosh darn it, it was Smash Wii U/3DS that tore us apart. I just won't play the game with him. We would actually get in heated arguments over the game in large part due to what Ian said above.

As I said I love tournament style play but I also love things like Poke Floats, Orbital Assault, Saffron City, and Mario Bros. Some of these its just the terrain never being consistent and for others things are trying to hurt you at every turn! I love trying to fight and survive the environment at the same time! Now I don't like it all the time but alternating from the usual ultra safe tournament play to balls to the wall nuts play is great for me.

My bro insists stages like Orbital Assault and Mario Bros Arcade(brawl) are inherently not fun. Like its a scientific impossibility for those stages to be fun because there is so much trying to kill you that you are fighting against the stage and its no fun for people to die like that. His reasoning is no one likes to lose. He can't even fathom why I would enjoy stages like those.

He even views walk off stages as inferior and unfun because it doesn't make the game fair and goes against what Smash is all about. I'm like what the heck is Smash all about?! I mean walks offs usually account for such a small fraction of the over all stages why not have a few for the cool novelty and alternate way to play? Man I love the Wii Fit Studio and Mario Maker.

I'm even embarrassed to say that our conversations concerning these two stage topics and Dixie Kong actually had me raising me voice ready to knock his teeth out. When I read topics and Smash fans are going at it in really heated discussions I see an ugly side of my personality I didn't even know I had in all of them. Only when I argue about the inclusion of randomness, walk offs and stage hazards I make it very clear I don't want every stage like that. Just some. Some stages should be really neutral, some should be nuts, and then others in between the extreme ends. My bro is like "Dixie is no body who brings nothing to the table, walk offs go against Smash's style of play, stage hazards ruin the game for reasons."


And I think to myself, as a kid and teenager he used to love all that crazy stuff. We would laugh and have such a good time and now its as if those things only had merit when he was young and stupid enough to believe they were fun.

I don't particularly like 3rd party characters in Smash. I've warmed up to them but personally wouldn't mind them gone. At the same time I know a jillion people love them and I am happy they got the ones they love and hope they get to keep them for their sakes. I don't go around telling people what they should and should not like in the game the way my brother does.


Huh... Now that I think about it, I don't play anything with him any more. His smug and condescending attitude in regards to what I like in Smash has completely ruined our relationship which was built on gaming together.


*sigh* I need therapy.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2018, 09:01:54 AM »
I like the variety of stages with hazards, and I’ll select them occasionally to break things up. Some hazards, however, are perhaps too intrusive. For example, I like Wiley Castle with the moving platforms, but I don’t always feel like dealing with the Yellow Devil. I’m not saying I don’t want them in the game. That would be silly as random elements are major hallmarks of the series. Rather, I just want the option to play on a stage without the boss/hazard that isn’t just Final Destination. That’s an important distinction.

As for third party characters, I like them particularly if they bring something new to the table that wouldn’t make sense with a Nintendo character (e.g. Ryu’s controls, Bayonetta’s combos, Cloud’s Limit Break). I definitely want Sakurai to keep building on that.

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2018, 11:08:10 AM »
I should have clarified myself. I do like hazards but there are some that go too far even for me. Yellow Devil and Ridley being two of the biggest offenders. I think for me it's because they appear on a stage that would otherwise be perfect in a competitive setting. If they appeared on a more wacky or bigger stage like Metal Face I probably wouldn't be so against them.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2018, 07:54:34 PM »
Metal Face is a really good stage hazard. He's disruptive but at the same time he has established rules and such that make him seem more tame than something like Ridley.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2018, 08:03:24 PM »
Caterkiller's brother reminds me of my other brother, the one I didn't play Melee with, who is very stuck in his ways and never liked videogames switching to 3D.  Like he talks about polygons like they're some fad.  I think you can count the amount of videogames he's played that were released after 1996 on one hand.  On one hand if someone wants to deprive themselves of something fun by being irrationally stubborn that's their loss.  But I also lose something in that when we were kids I enjoyed playing games with him and that's not really a thing now.  If I ask him to play Super Mario Kart he's game, but no Mario Kart 8.  Like what's the real difference there?  Super Mario Kart is a 3D game, it just uses sprites instead of Polygons.

In regards to SSB in a tournament/eSports approach, my feeling is that if I want that I have games like Street Fighter right there.  SSB with it's one button special moves seems like an overly simple fighting game engine for "serious" play when there are games with complex button inputs and combos available.  If you want a serious fighter why aren't you playing Virtua Fighter or the Last Blade or something that is specifically designed as such.  To me it's like your ideal game would be Gran Turismo but you're sticking with Mario Kart for some reason.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2018, 08:11:40 PM »
I think Yellow Devil is kind of annoying.  He "shrinks" the stage dramatically.  He, and other boss hazards, are cool because they really change how you play since now there's a mutual enemy for everyone involved.  However, that's more fun to me on paper (read:typing it out on a Nintendo forum) than in actual practice for some reason.  Those are the kind of stage hazards I'd want a toggle for.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #81 on: March 15, 2018, 09:27:24 PM »
In regards to SSB in a tournament/eSports approach, my feeling is that if I want that I have games like Street Fighter right there.  SSB with it's one button special moves seems like an overly simple fighting game engine for "serious" play when there are games with complex button inputs and combos available.  If you want a serious fighter why aren't you playing Virtua Fighter or the Last Blade or something that is specifically designed as such.  To me it's like your ideal game would be Gran Turismo but you're sticking with Mario Kart for some reason.
Because fighting games come in all shapes and sizes, and Nintendo essentially created a subgenre thanks to Smash Bros. design. There's no reason people can't enjoy and invest time into a platform fighter if combination-input fighters don't appeal to them.
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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2018, 12:59:15 AM »
Yeah, I am not a fan of combo-input fighters. I can have some fun dicking around with other people who don't know what they're doing, but I have zero interest in actually "learning" how to play them. Smash Bros. is much more intuitive and dynamic.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2018, 08:06:54 PM »
So, how much do you guys want to bet we’re getting another tease of this game in the next Direct? I assume they’ll want to build up all the hype they can before blowing their load at E3.
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Offline Order.RSS

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2018, 08:41:27 PM »

So, how much do you guys want to bet we’re getting another tease of this game in the next Direct? I assume they’ll want to build up all the hype they can before blowing their load at E3.


Well OBVIOUSLY Super Smash Bros for New Nintendo 2DS XL 2 (working title) will include indie gaming characters too right? So it's only natural for them to do a Nindies Direct... and then end it with a whole bunch of character reveals!!!

LEAKED RUMOURS FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE
Shovel Knight is in, can you dig it?!
And along with him, the King of Cards plays his ace!
Owlboy & Sakurai are in ca-hoots!
Hollow Knight joins the fray!
Shantae lifts the pirate's curse!
Miriam from Bloodstained arrives, before Bloodstained itself does!
Fé's creature sings a song of victory!
Moonlighter moonlights as a Smash champion!
A car from FAST RMX? GOOOOO
Anyone from Runbow dashes for the finish!
Sasha from Severed cuts her way through the competition!
A cow from Stardew Valley? Immediate S-Rank on the tier list.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #85 on: March 19, 2018, 08:56:59 AM »
I don’t consider the nindie showcase to be a Direct, but okay.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #86 on: March 19, 2018, 07:30:10 PM »
I don’t consider the nindie showcase to be a Direct, but okay.

I thought that's what you were referring to and my response would've been "only if Shovel Knight is in".

Been playing Star Allies and I don't know why, but this game is making think Bandanna Waddle Dee might be in.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #87 on: March 19, 2018, 07:42:06 PM »
I would like to see some Kirby representation but its kind of hard since they haven't really fleshed out the side characters much and you almost have to go with bosses to get characters with a bigger move set. That said, I think Marx could be made to work and I still pine for Gooey representation. But if Bandana Waddle Dee does get included then one of the alternate costumes better be Banana Waddle Dee with a banana on his head in place of the bandana. Then I will consider making him one of my top choices as a fighter.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #88 on: March 19, 2018, 09:26:51 PM »
This could just have just as easily been a Smash trailer for Chef Kawasaki:
https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/975846880675418112
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #89 on: March 19, 2018, 09:31:27 PM »
Shovel Knight should never ever ever be in Smash Bros. But I have no love for that game so disregard me.

I don’t really feel that you need any more representation of the Kirby series than there already is, but if any characterwere to make it, it would likely be Bandana Dee.

I think that a more relevant topic when discussing potential roster picks is what games/series don’t need more representation in Smash, or have no more roster potential. Like, the only two characters I can see from Mario are Captain Toad and Waluigi, but that’s scraping the bottom of the barrel. As much of a Metroid fan as I am, Ridley doesn’t work and there haven’t been any landmark, iconic characters out of that series other than he and Samus. Zelda is mega popular right now but any other additions aside from Tingle would be single entry characters. They could capitalize on Hyrule Warriors giving some more representation and moveset potential (Midna, Ganondorf, [and Ghirahim pleeeease!]), which I think would be a bold move. The boldest of all would be adding that game’s titular character, Lana.

Donkey Kong needs another playable character, whether it’s Dixie or Cranky. These are characters I feel deserve a spot, unlike King K. Rool who doesn’t have one distinct personality. Personal opinion. The return of Wolf would be the only entry Fromm Star Fox I could imagine, unless you’d let me to do something with Slippy and his Star Fox Guard appearance. Kid Icarus certainly doesn’t need any new characters, but since it’s Sakurai’s baby I could see another one. I’d want something more unique fromit, like Hades or Medusa, as Smash lacks villains (and yet, I don’t want King K. Rool...). Kirby is fine. Earthbound could use more variety but it’s still too niche to get anything more than what it has.

Then, there’s the two elephants in the room. Pokemon won’t lose its potential additions until a Smash game with ONLY Pokemon exists, but I really feel they should try to be conservative with this series and reserve spots for truly iconic and popular Pokemon. Everyone who is wrong and stupid seems to want Decidueye but I would prefer other grass-types. And then there’s Fire Emblem, which is such a frustrating series in general. With games that feature such a wide variety of weapon types and fighting styles, it baffles me as to why every Fire Emblem character wields a sword. If they were to add another character, I’d pray for an axe/lance user, although to me, I feel you could give a nod to ATLUS and cover your bases with one of the characters from the criminally underrated and under-exposed Tokyo Mirage Sessions. I mentioned this on Twitter.

Outside of that, there’s lots of one-off characters from Nintendo games that don’t need any more entries. The potential of new series being included is much more appealing to me than anything, but I understand that, at its current size, representing Nintendo series is going to be slim pickings. There are certain games that would work better as stages than fighting characters, like Pushmo and Captain Toad, and new series- with the exception of Splatoon- are extremely niche, like Dillon’s Rolling, ARMS, and Code Name STEAM. I don’t think a universe exists where this next Smash will have more third-party additions than first-party entries, but I do wonder if Nintendo will extend a hand to smaller indie developers who have really made an impact on their consoles. There are some universally popular indie titles like Cave Story, SteamWorld, Shantae, and as much as I hate to admit it, Shovel Knight who have honored some traditions that Nintendo has established, and perhaps deserve a spot among the heavy hitters. I don’t see this happening, but hey, no one believed Cloud would ever be in Smash, either.

Also, please leave Kingdom Hearts out of Smash Bros..
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #90 on: March 19, 2018, 11:28:14 PM »
Zelda is mega popular right now but any other additions aside from Tingle would be single entry characters. They could capitalize on Hyrule Warriors giving some more representation and moveset potential (Midna, Ganondorf, [and Ghirahim pleeeease!]), which I think would be a bold move. The boldest of all would be adding that game’s titular character, Lana.

If we get a new Zelda character I'd put all my money on Impa.  She's been in the majority of Zelda games, and is the most iconic character behind Link, Zelda and Ganon as this point.  Yeah she's usually an old women but has been younger in Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword, with her Hyrule Warrior design being a modified version of the Skyward Sword one and would be perfect for Smash.  Hyrule Warriors also gives her a ton of moveset potential with the different weapons she uses in that game.  Plus with all the Sheikah technology in Breath of the Wild, Sakurai could easily borrow some things from that game to give to Impa to use since she is the head of the Sheikah so it would make sense.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2018, 04:04:35 PM »
the only two characters I can see from Mario are Captain Toad and Waluigi, but that’s scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Waaahhh! You lousy! Waluigi number one!


(For BnM if he wants to be included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SU0wxB1ASc)


Everybody knows that Waluigi is Charles Martinet's best voice work.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2018, 10:29:18 AM »

I think that a more relevant topic when discussing potential roster picks is what games/series don’t need more representation in Smash, or have no more roster potential.

This is an interesting approach to the "who should be in" question.  Not one I would've thought of.

But while the Mushroom Kingdom is thoroughly represented, I think Waluigi should be in as a fan favorite "fun" character.

Also, of the other franchises that seem fully represented, I can't think of one that couldn't add or change up the representation in an interesting way.  For Zelda, Wolf Link and Midna could be a really interesting addition.  Despite being niche, Poo or Flint from Earthbound could be fun additions.  And despite having a lot of representation, Fire Emblem needs some axe and lance users, but I'm not sure who you cut other than Lucina.

Actually, I think Pikmin having more of the other Captains as alts for Olimar would be the only extra representation that franchise needs.

But what about F-Zero?  I think it's time for a new game Samurai Goroh (or someone else) got in.

Also there's this:

source
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2018, 11:52:58 AM »
I just can’t get behind adding Waluigi. I feel like he should be playable in at least one non-sports Mario spinoff. I’ve been waiting for Super Wario Bros. for nearly two decades now.

When Brawl was announced, I was all for Midna and Wolf Link. However, I’d prefer Imp Midna independent of Wolf Link. I think there’s potential basing most of her moves on the Fused Shadow (only using Wolf Link for a special move if at all) and/or transforming into her true form.

If adding a ton of characters is too much work, I could get behind updating the older ones. No need to replace entire movesets (except Ganondorf). Use moves inspired by more recent games such as Mario getting Cappie and being able to dive onto him like in Super Mario Odyssey.

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #94 on: March 21, 2018, 02:56:41 PM »
I could see Paper Mario finally getting in.  He's had 5 games, with a wide variety of things to choose from for potential movesets.  You have all the paper transformations, stickers, partners and items that could be thrown in to make a very creative character.

When compared to other Mario related characters, Paper Mario has the most going for him.  He's had his own series that has gotten a new game for the last 4 generations now, with the last gen having 2 main games and a crossover game with Mario & Luigi.  There's also the creativity factor which I mentioned above which certainly gives him a lot more potential for a unique moveset then Captain Toad or Waluigi.  If Sakurai is looking for popular Nintendo characters who could still bring something new to the table, I'd imagine Paper Mario would be near the top of that list.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #95 on: March 21, 2018, 08:04:12 PM »
Wow! I never thought about a Paper Mario version. (Probably because having Dr. Mario never made me think of another Mario "clone"). There are two big moves of Paper Mario. The Jump attack which I don't really see translating unless done as a Final Smash perhaps but there are greater attacks which could be used for that. The Hammer could very well be like King Dedede and his side smash hammer attack. That said, there are other moves and attacks. He could even have helper friend attacks included as well. There is a rich vein of potential here. I would honestly knock out Dr. Mario then in place of Paper Mario even with the Doctor's inclusion in a couple games already at this point.

As much as I do like Waluigi, I can't argue against a Paper Mario being included in first if there is an expansion in the Mushroom Kingdom lineup.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #96 on: March 21, 2018, 10:17:51 PM »
Please don’t soil Paper Mario any more.

If he were in, I would main him. If he sucked, it would perfectly encapsulate my feelings on the series and crush me.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 10:25:12 PM by Evan_B »
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #97 on: March 21, 2018, 11:14:33 PM »
Hey, I still main Kirby in Melee even though his slower speed keeps me from doing as well as people playing other characters like Marth and Roy. Don't care. He's Kirby and he'll always be my main. Heck, even in Brawl and Wii U, he's not a top tier guy but I plug away and still see some success because I know his moves set so well.
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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #98 on: March 21, 2018, 11:27:44 PM »
I would drop all complaints about the development of the series if they made Jigglypuff good again. I still main it, but it ain't the same.

Waluigi should get in as an obnoxious Mario sports character with a grunge-preppy tennis-shorts style, smashes with different rackets or clubs, etc. He can even be a Wario clone, with a Tour de France bike instead of a motorcycle.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
« Reply #99 on: March 21, 2018, 11:41:23 PM »
Wow! I never thought about a Paper Mario version.
There was some discussion of Paper Mario in this Talkback thread nearly five years ago. I thought I brought up Paper Mario earlier, but that must have been on nChamber. Paper Mario would be awesome as long as Sakurai ignores Sticker Star.

Anyway, I don't think I've ever stuck with a single character as my go-to (really trying not to use "main" as a noun here).

OG: Samus
Melee: Sheik
Brawl: I don't even remember
Wii U/3DS: Lucina