Poll

Who Should Be Added in the Second DLC Wave?

Shrek
1 (2.5%)
Godzilla
1 (2.5%)
James Bond
1 (2.5%)
James Jones
1 (2.5%)
Super Kong
1 (2.5%)
Tutorial Pig
1 (2.5%)
Who cares? Fox Only, No Items, Final Destination
1 (2.5%)
Your Mom
2 (5%)
Malon
3 (7.5%)
Geno
2 (5%)
Funky Kong
4 (10%)
Reggie
2 (5%)
Iwata
1 (2.5%)
The Playstation All-Stars
1 (2.5%)
Goku
1 (2.5%)
The volleyball from Dead or Alive Xtreme Volleyball
2 (5%)
Nintendo Characters!
6 (15%)
The Mon-Stars from Space Jam
2 (5%)
More 3rd Party Characters!
5 (12.5%)
Sakurai
2 (5%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 21, 2020, 02:36:44 PM

Author Topic: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC  (Read 126942 times)

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Offline Khushrenada

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I get exactly what Adrock is saying and agree. Sure, there are a few more characters I think would be great editions. I feel somewhat sad at how Chibi-Robo has been somewhat overlooked at being included much in this series. He can't even rise to an Assist Trophy or Mii Costume. All he's had for representation is a trophy and three stickers in Brawl and a trophy in 3DS Smash. Even Steel Diver got a sub included as a weapon in 3DS Smash. He clearly doesn't warrant much attention at Nintendo which is too bad since I'll keep pounding the drum that I think he's got great potential at being an actual fighter. But do I feel that is a glaring absence from the roster? Unfortunately, no. He just doesn't have that much clout or following that a lot of other characters that weren't included before have.

It felt wrong when Roy was missing in Brawl after his popularity in Melee. It felt wrong when Wolf was left out of Smash 4 since I liked the inclusion of more villains. Same with Lucas but he got brought back pretty quickly as DLC. Like Adrock alluded to, I think Wario was 1 of the top 3 most wanted inclusion in Brawl from the moment it was first announced because it felt like he was a character who should be included in this series. In the past few iterations, there has been a lot of ongoing requests for Ridley and K. Rool and many of the third party characters now involved that there it doesn't feel like there is a really major character that's being overlooked still. With K. Rool, everything else feels like gravy.

That's why I don't even care that Chrom was included this go around. What do I care when I've got these other fighters I've always wanted to play as?
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Offline Mop it up

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Offline King of Twitch

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at this point the only major omissions from the roster are Banjo, Spyro and Crash and those are third party characters.

We're trying to limit it to characters that have been in good games.

-RFA
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Offline Khushrenada

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at this point the only major omissions from the roster are Banjo, Spyro and Crash and those are third party characters.

We're trying to limit it to characters that have been in good games.

-RFA


Thread over.
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Offline King of Twitch

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Overall, this game was probably the one that convinced naysayers that GameCube is the system for games.

That is to say if the online is actually adequate this time around. >_>

That's pretty much the dumbest comment ever made about the roster.



The Subspace Emissary is a surprisingly lengthy adventure that weaves (almost) all of the game's characters into an inexplicable but utterly awesome series of platfomer-esque stages and battles.



Mario: Go back to the cape, get rid of F.L.O.O.D


NO new Mario, Zelda,, Pokemon, or Kirby characters, and no more star fox clones.  There are more than enough of those already.  Time to give some other series more of a chance.



think how much fun it would be to play multiplayer smash on the go. This game could probably even sell thousands of Gameboys. Why doesnt nintendo see this great possibility!!!!!!!!!


Nice writeup, but shouldn't you guys have a REview by now? :)

I kid. Not that it matters, we all know what to expect anyway.



I just hope that if this game comes around there will be more diverse characters.  No more clones.  And more overall characters, that'd be nice.

Oh, I know most of what I say is unfeasible.  I'm an idea man, not a game designer.
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Offline Krushrenada

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The roster has never really been all that important to me, what I'm really hoping for is more good single player content. It's how I've mainly played Smash games and I've always enjoyed the challenge of acquiring all the trophies and unlocking all the secrets and other collectibles including playing through all the modes with each character because I like to be showered with the appreciation that I so rightly deserve. It's part of the reason why I liked Melee so much. A lot of characters and stages required some effort to unlock and gave motivation to keep playing through different modes and being surprised by their addition. It isn't like today's games where a majority of the "rewards" are just messages that pop up on the screen informing you of your accomplishment which are typically handed out for things like simply beating the game or jumping 500 times or other such nonsense. Some achievement that is.

I wasn't a huge fan of Subspace Emissary compared to Adventure Mode in Melee although I did like playing through it to unlock some of the fighters and see their entrance videos that played with them. They clearly put a lot of effort into the brilliant cutscenes which I did not want to ruin by simply watching them on YouTube like so many people apparently did. What I disliked about the mode is that Adventure Mode inspired this idea of interesting shared mash-up of all the Nintendo Franchises and characters together. It felt like an actual cross-over, the kind of thing that people write fan-fiction about except it's of much better quality, similar to my own fan fiction that I play out on the forums every day. That's nothing but quality.

With Smash Run on the 3DS, it felt like a blending of the two. I liked racing around to collect as many treasure chests as I could and getting myself powered up for an unknown final battle that could just be a race to the finish or climb as high as you can. It isn't unlike how I play things here on the forums except here, everyone else won't know it's a game until it's too late and I'll already be far too powered up for anyone to stop me. I got a lot of play out of the 3DS as a single player experience thanks to Smash Run and liked it way more than Smash Tour. Can't really comment much on Special Orders since I have hardly played Smash Wii U since the Wii U is a toilet fire and I have a tendency to avoid anything trashy as to keep up my level of high class.

In Melee, it was about working to unlock all the characters, stages and trophies by playing through the various modes and meeting certain objectives. I loved it then and I still do as I'm the biggest fan of the GameCube you ever did see. Some people have been foolish enough to challenge my GameCube fandom but they were quickly obliterated by just how much I love that little purple cube so I hope you'll just accept that and not try to challenge it here. Scratch that, go ahead and challenge me, I'm confident no one here even comes close to my GameCube admiration. Getting back on track, I've been working on the trophy and achievement hunt with Melee again after losing all that data in a corrupted memory card. Okay so the GameCube isn't perfect and the memory cards are a bit of an issue because of this problem. But at the same time on a modern system corrupted memory would make the entire system unusable whereas here, I can just pop in a new memory card and be good to go. There's something special about that game which still holds up, which isn't surprising since there is something special about every GameCube game and pretty much any one is better than modern games.

With Smash 4, characters weren't really hidden away. Every 10 Smash battles gave you a chance to unlock the next character in the unlock rotation. Stages also weren't really hidden away that much which kind of disappoints me, though I'm used to disappointments as one has to be as a member of the NWR forums. I understand about tournaments and needing save files with characters and stages unlocked but these nerds are kind of missing the point of the game by having tournaments anyway. They should instead hold a tournament to see who can unlock all of the content the fastest, that would be far more dynamic and interesting to watch that some 1v1 snoozefest. At the moment, Smash Ultimate seems to be taking the approach that characters and stages are all there up front with nothing to find or unlock. That's the kind of thing lousy modern games do but I guess at this point in time Smash may have no choice but to cater to modern day gaming babies who need to have everything spoon-fed to them because they can barely figure out how to sit up without the game telling them to. I realize not everyone can be as intelligent as me but at the same time I didn't think I was that far above the rest.
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Offline Adrock

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So I've been mulling over Dark Samus' Echo status since the recent Nintendo Direct. Conclusion: she is appropriately an Echo fighter given she made her first full appearance in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. That's just corny enough for me to find endearing. Still, it would have been cool if she was more of a partial clone like Chrom who has some of Ike's moves or Ganondorf who has Cloud's Down Smash etc. Dark Samus had three moves as an Assist Trophy: scattershot, homing energy/Phazon orbs, and Phazon "tentacles" (for lack of a better word) which should have been integrated into her moveset.

Neutral Special: Scattershot, charge for Phazon tentacles (basically Ike's Neutral Special, Eruption)
Forward+Special: No change, she has missiles in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Up+Special: High jump with shockwave landing (basically King Dedede's Up+Special, Super Dedede; Dark Samus does the shockwave landing in Echoes and Corruption)
Down+Special: Clone (basically Zelda's Down+Special, Phantom Slash)
Up Smash: Energy/Phazon orbs (no longer homing because that'd be cheap as hell)
Final Smash: Transform into Metroid Prime (final form without exoskeleton), wreak havoc. She doesn't do this in the games, but who cares? It’d be a cool Final Smash.

Get rid of the Grapple Beam; everything else can be copied from Samus. Dark Samus was essentially Nintendo's Venom in which she copied/got stronger versions the hero's powers so I don't mind her having most of Samus' moves. I still think Sakurai and co could have taken more from the source material.
The roster has never really been all that important to me, what I'm really hoping for is more good single player content.
I definitely don't buy Super Smash Bros. for single player content, but I think there's a great opportunity in Ultimate to do something special with the single-player mode. The reveal trailers could be a few different CGI cutscenes edited together to look like they're the same clip. So maybe the CGI cutscenes we've seen in the reveal trailers are actually much smaller snippets in a story mode, and they're all loosely connected into a larger (hopefully not super-serious) narrative. So like, you play through a simple Melee-esque Adventure mode level, watch a short cutscene to set the stage, then have whatever Smash match/boss fight was established in the cutscene. Rinse, repeat.

Let's use Simon's reveal trailer.

1. Cutscene: Luigi is deep in Dracula's castle
2. Play through a short Castlevania stage as Luigi
3. Cutscene: Death murders the **** out of Luigi, Simon arrives at Dracula's castle
4. Play as Simon through a different Castlevania stage, fight Death
5. Cutscene: Richter saves Simon
6. Play as Richter and help Simon defeat Death

This idea would require a lot of cutscenes so I don't know if that's possible in every sense of the word. Additionally, I wonder how many Adventure levels would be needed to make it worthwhile. 20? 30? One for each character? One for each non-Echo fighter? They wouldn’t have to be super long or anything. However, it’s imperative that each level be designed with a specific character in mind, or they’ll feel generic and boring like The Subspace Emissary. I don’t know if we can have a stage that takes advantage of say, both Kirby and Little Mac’s strengths and still be fun. I realize this would be an absurd amount of work thus probably asking too much. Either way, I think it would be best to nix co-op in an Adventure Mode because it doesn’t work unless it was only via Switch handheld mode.
Quote
With Smash Run on the 3DS, it felt like a blending of the two. I liked racing around to collect as many treasure chests as I could and getting myself powered up for an unknown final battle that could just be a race to the finish or climb as high as you can.
Smash Run worked pretty well as a single player mode. However, I think it's true potential is as an 8-player online/local battle royale with everyone on the same map.
Quote
At the moment, Smash Ultimate seems to be taking the approach that characters and stages are all there up front with nothing to find or unlock. That's the kind of thing lousy modern games do but I guess at this point in time Smash may have no choice but to cater to modern day gaming babies who need to have everything spoon-fed to them because they can barely figure out how to sit up without the game telling them to.
I believe the stages are available from the start but the characters aren't. I'd rather unlock the stages but have all the music from a series once at least one stage from a series is unlocked. I don't like unlocking music and never bothered to in Brawl and For Wii U.

I'm hoping Ultimate is the Super Smash Bros. title in which the Stage Builder isn't a generic miserable pile of secrets.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 09:28:02 PM by Adrock »

Offline Mop it up

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Looks like Adrock has his completed roster, anyone else?
I don't think mine would be complete unless they made a Mario edition of Smash. But I'm crazy like that. That's just my personal preference though, I'm not going to fault the game especially when it does a good job covering lots of franchises.

Offline Adrock

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Yesterday, I managed to snag a pre-order for the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Pro Controller. I’m undecided on whether to keep the Special Edition (steel case and Pro Controller) or the game and controller separately. Amazon didn’t make the Special Edition available until the literal day after scuttling the 20% Prime discount for game pre-orders (the discount being the only reason I ever pre-ordered games) so I don’t get a discount there. I did pre-order the standard game with the Prime discount so the cost differential between the two options is about $18 after tax.

I’m ambivalent toward special/limited editions these days. I mainly pre-ordered the Special Edition to ensure I could get the Pro Controller. I don’t even really care for the controller itself except that I need an additional one for multiplayer, and it just happens to be a different color so I can tell them apart. I kind of feel like if I’m going to make a big to-do about physical releases all the time, I should probably care more about the steel case that comes with the Special Edition. I’m aware that this is run-of-the-mill first-world problem bullshit. However, I’m curious what others would do.

Offline Mop it up

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Myself, I could pre-order the Special Edition at Best Buy and get 20% off plus an extra $10 in credit, but I've chosen not to. That deal's offered for the regular game so that's what I've gone with. I don't particularly care for the design of the controller nor the steelbook, with the steelbook in particular seeming rather uninspired. It's just a black case with the Smash logo on it. There are so many more interesting things they could have done than that.

So yeah, if you're asking me, I don't find the special edition to be... special enough to buy.

Offline Adrock

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Yeah, I’m not really digging the steelbook design either. I’m hoping it’s a placeholder (the inside is apparently just Battlefield). It should have been that huge mural of all the characters that’s on the website when opened. Thanks for the feedback.



Offline Adrock

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Offline Luigi Dude

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Its funny how so many people including myself though Isabelle would be an Echo and then she ends up looking more of a Lucas/Wolf style character instead.  Of course it makes sense now when you really think about it.  Animal Crossing: New Leaf was the biggest Nintendo game last gen in Japan, selling even more then Pokemon on the 3DS over there.  It's also really huge in the West as well, so it makes sense Sakurai would want to make the second Animal Crossing rep more unique since there's a huge fanbase for this series.

In comparison to character like Daisy and Dark Samus where the series they're from already have several unique characters, it's understandable why Isabelle got more work put into her.
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Offline Mop it up

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Yeah, I'm okay with Isabelle being a Luigi-fied Villager if that's what she is. Animal Crossing just had the one character before so there's still more to draw inspiration from the series.

Also, back to that special edition: if the steelbook case had the Switch dock design on it, then it'd be neat.

Offline nickmitch

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CoroCoro is saying there are 108 stages total, up from 103 per the last direct.

Link
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Offline nickmitch

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That's room for 5 more franchises to be represented, which would be insane.
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Offline Khushrenada

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There are currently 103 stages yet the picture of Stage Select shows that there is a possibility of another 6 that could still be added based on the black gap on the bottom row.



Makes sense. Based on the pic of stages shown earlier, it was assumed there might only be about 6 more to come and they'd probably be new. However, if it's only 5 then that leaves a black gap in the bottom corner. Some people are now speculating that it could be an arrow for future DLC. Perhaps though maybe Sakurai has something else in mind. It will be wait and see now.
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Offline nickmitch

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I'm thinking it'll be an arrow for future DLC.  That makes the most sense, even if Sakurai takes a much needed break, I'm sure Nintendo will want to milk the franchize some more.


Edit: a popular theory floating around is that there are two more characters left to be revealed: one new, one echo.  This is based on the box art of the special edition.


Video link
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 08:24:39 PM by nickmitch »
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Edit: a popular theory floating around is that there are two more characters left to be revealed: one new, one echo.  This is based on the box art of the special edition.

I wouldn't put much thought in the box theory.  The promotional material can be easily edited for the final product.  Plus we'll still get another Smash Direct before the game is released.  In the last one they revealed 5 new characters, 2 unique and 3 Echo fighters.  If they only had 3 characters left to reveal after the August Smash Direct, they wouldn't have shown that many during it.  This would mean there's only 2 new characters left with one being an Echo which I find hard to believe.

I just don't see Sakurai allowing 5 characters to be revealed in the August Direct if he's only going to then show 2 in the final Direct where everything about the game is revealed.  Even if it's a huge Adventure mode that blows people away, he would know that showing that many characters in one Smash Direct would set up people's expectations for the next.

Of course this is assuming it's just one more Smash Bros Direct as well.  There could be one in October and another in November with how big the game is in which case I doubt they'd have only 1 in each, especially if one is just an Echo.  Plus will probably be a Pokemon Direct in the near future to cover Let's Go in more detail before launch which could be when a new Pokemon is shown as well. 

Now I don't thing the final roster will be that much bigger then what's been shown but I think 5 more characters is a more realistic number to expect then just 2 considering how much time we still have before release and how Nintendo and Sakurai will probably want to really go all out closer to launch.
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Offline nickmitch

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I agree that the box theory doesn't hold too much water.

We should expect at least one more Pokemon to represent Gen 7, and I doubt Sakurai would save that for the last announced character, since it wouldn't have that surprise factor.
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Offline Adrock

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I don’t remember if Melee characters were formally announced. My first exposure to the game was probably like E3 footage on TechTV (before it was G4). Peach was the first newcomer I remember seeing. We didn’t get newcomer trailers back then. Mewtwo was probably the final character most people unlocked because it took 20 hours in Vs. Mode.

Since then, Sakurai seems to front load the newcomer reveals in that the biggest ones occur well before release. In Brawl, I’d argue that Sonic was a bigger deal than Snake, but the latter was revealed with four other newcomers in the debut trailer. That always stuck out to me more. According to the Smash Bros. Dojo, the last Brawl newcomer revealed before the game’s release was R.O.B. I feel like that would’ve been a bigger surprise had he not been playable in Mario Kart DS first.

I can’t check Miiverse anymore so based on the YouTube trailers, looks like Shulk was the last newcomer revealed before Super Smash Bros. for 3DS was released. Cool though a lot of people probably missed his game. For me, Mega Man was the biggest surprise without counting Cloud since he was DLC.

Anyway, a new Pokemon is expected so it’d be anticlimactic to go out that way as far as surprises go. I can’t think of a first party character that would hit like Ridley or even King K. Rool. On the third party side, I’ve seen names thrown around such as Dante, Doom Guy, Banjo-Kazooie, and Master Chief. If Cloud made it in, the field is wide open.

Except Goku.

Offline Luigi Dude

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Anyway, a new Pokemon is expected so it’d be anticlimactic to go out that way as far as surprises go. I can’t think of a first party character that would hit like Ridley or even King K. Rool. On the third party side, I’ve seen names thrown around such as Dante, Doom Guy, Banjo-Kazooie, and Master Chief. If Cloud made it in, the field is wide open.

Except Goku.

I personally expect Geno to be the final newcomer shown before release.  He's right up there with Ridley and K Rool as long time requested characters by the hardcore fan who watch the Smash Direct as they air so his reveal would certainly make the core Smash community go insane.  Plus he'd be a huge WTF character to the general public who have either never heard of him before or might have just experience Mario RPG for the first time thanks to SNES Classic so it'd get the casual fans interested in such a strange character to them appearing.

If the tagline of the game is "Everyone is Here", Geno is like the perfect way to say to longtime Smash Bros fans that yep, literally everyone is here.
I’m gonna have you play every inch of this game! - Masahiro Sakurai

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
« Reply #372 on: September 18, 2018, 03:23:56 AM »
Obviously, no one is going to be able to crack the mind of Sakurai, the Joker of the video game development world. But, how can close can NWR users get to that madness?

So, let's have a friendly competition to see who can predict it best.

1. How many fighters will Ultimate end up having at release? Give me your number either based on unique fighters or total number of fighters including echo characters.

2. Who are the remaining characters you think will be announced? Don't forget to mention if you think they will be unique or echo.

3. If the rumor is correct, then what do you think the final five stages yet to be shown will be?

4. If the secret mode is called Spirits after all, what do you think the mode will contain. Shoot for 5 details.

5. If there is any other predication you want to make about the game, this is your chance for extra credit. Go for it!
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
« Reply #373 on: September 18, 2018, 01:27:45 PM »
My money is on Geno, because he had a Mii Fighter costume in the last game, just like K Rool, and Chrom, and Isabelle.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
« Reply #374 on: September 18, 2018, 11:45:22 PM »
Here is my theory, Sakurai said not to expect a lot of new characters.  He also explained that there is a difference between new and echo characters.  Yes, echo characters take up a new character slot in the game, but they are also not exactly new.

We have also seen that echo fighters can sorta have a mixture of moves not just from one character but several characters and this is the key to my idea.  I think there will be more than just a handful of echo fighters, where it will make sense.  But not every character will get an echo fighter. I also believe Sakurai is trolling us when he says we will know all the characters that will be in the game from the start.  I believe he MAY hide some echo fighters secret.  However this still doesn't mean we will be getting a great number of new characters.  Partially because I can see some characters just don't need another echo fighter.  So I am going to put my prediction down as 80 total characters including Echo characters.

I also would like to predict another Pokemon Trainer as an echo fighter.  They will have different Fire, Grass, water type Pokemon from a different generation and may play with the formula changing up which type takes which roll in the battle.

I believe Ken will be the Echo fighter for Ryu, but sense that is too easy instead I will predict Akuma will be the Echo fighter. 

Finally for the same reason instead of Shadow or Mecha-Sonic (which honestly if they did Shadow Mecha-Sonic could just be a skin) I believe Tails will be Echo fighter of Sonic, and he will have some hover move similar to Snakes or Princess Peaches.