Topic: Episode 362: The Day the Music Died

[ClexYoshi]

Okay... I've finally given myself some time to let this simmer a bit.

First off, I would like to say that this is a great episode of RFN and one I have even been showing off to others who tried to convince me that I'm a stupid stupidhead for wanting a Wii U.

The problematic nature of this... thing that Nintendo has put out is really, REALLY showing now. I often don't know how the hell to explain this thing to people and why it has the potential for greatness, and now I don't think I really could if people are openly making the Virtual Boy and Sega Saturn comparisons.

the idea of plans accelerating for the next bit of hardware doesn't set me at ease either. If anything, the fat would really need to be trimmed and the backwards compatibility needs to go right out the window in lieu of just making something with a very acute focus. Miiverse could maybe stay as it's a rather elegant way to do things without drawing you away from your game too far with using a separate device for like... GameFAQs or something, but... this blanket spread of ideas that don't gel well needs to go and they just need to have a device that gets the job done without complicating the process with multiple control schemes, dodgy online services, or... really, anything that they've really failed to showcase in a meaningful fashion with the Wii U.

This is something I wouldn't normally want, but usually they're good about the whole idea of making the software fit the hardware, and that hasn't been happening outside of... ZombiU? Maybe Nintendoland? I think of they just had this straightforward "It plays games with some sticks n' buttons!" kind of device that they'd at least be forced to like... do innovative stuff on a software level first instead of having hardware that they have no idea of what the crap to do with it on any tier of their corporate structure.

I think rather than Super Mario 3D world that we needed something that at least would have proven the Game Pad's worth that wasn't in Mini-game collection territory. something that's similar to say... Kirby Canvas Curse or Contact or Henry Hatsworth or... SOMETHING! a port of the PS3 version of Ni No Kuni where a PDF of the spellbook is on the Gamepad? That Mirror's Edge sequel that EA teased where the Gamepad is just a view of what's at your feet that you can look down at when you're unsure about your footing?

I am rambling. it is 2 AM. I think I'm still kinda pissed off about this and how my friends are not going to let me hear the end of how much of a stupid person I am for drinking the Nintendo Kool-aid the moment before the populace knew that it was arsenic-laced.

bleh...






Also, the idea of depth perception in Space Harrier does excite me. I might have also picked up 3D Sonic 1 if it were based on the Christian Whitehead port for iOS and Android.

... and then my tired mind went to the idea of 3D Sonic 3D Blast.

I hope I just made James' head explode.

[Pixelated Pixies]

@Webmalfunction

My 'Huh?' was in regards to your use of the word 'exponentially'.

What do you mean by 'the issues go exponentially beyond price'? Are you saying that beyond the issue of price other issues are increasingly important? Exponential is normally used to indicate that something becomes more rapid or pronounced as a result of a factor. Are you saying that the Wii U's issues are becoming increasingly pronounced and that the factor which accounts for that increase is price?

Or are you simply saying that Price is the least of Wii U's issues. If the latter, I don't think 'exponentially' really makes any sense.

Not trying to be the grammar police. I legitimately want to understand your intent.

[brianblivesay]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/12/wii_u_hardware_sales_take_a_significant_leap_in_japan

[ResettisCousin]

There was always a good chance they were going to fail this generation after the corner they put themselves in with Wii (and I LOVE Wii). I thought they were in a fair position leading up to the launch. Then I waited a year to buy one until it was $100 cheaper and there were 3 or 4 'must get' games and 5 to 8 'solid' games. Now, I'm glad to have it and if it died with the day after MK 8 would be released, it wouldn't be the worst $250 I've spent. (And I got an HDMI Wii out of it!)

[Ceric]

One of the problems the WiiU has is epitomized with Wii Fit U.  To Many Options.  Simply put you can control a game with, GamePad, Classic Controller, CCPro, WiiMote, WiiMote + Nunchuk, Balance Board, etc.  That's a full what 5 straight up controllers with different buttons amounts and layouts.  Thinking about it.  Sort of intimidating for me.

Sometimes too much Freedom is worse than being limited.

[lolmonade]

One of the problems the WiiU has is epitomized with Wii Fit U.  To Many Options.  Simply put you can control a game with, GamePad, Classic Controller, CCPro, WiiMote, WiiMote + Nunchuk, Balance Board, etc.  That's a full what 5 straight up controllers with different buttons amounts and layouts.  Thinking about it.  Sort of intimidating for me.

Sometimes too much Freedom is worse than being limited.

That's a very good point.  Options are great for us gamers.  For non-gamers, more options means more confusion. 
 

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/12/wii_u_hardware_sales_take_a_significant_leap_in_japan

I don't think that articule disproves anything about what's been said either in the comments or on the podcast.  Technically, Wii U's November sales were a 300% increase over October, which makes it look more impressive than it actually is.  This article is using the same tactics to make a modest increase in sales look more substantial than it actually is.
 
We have to dig deeper and know the context of what's being reported if we want to get the full-scale truth from a Nintendo enthusiast website.
 
 

[nilcam]

The Wii U is a strange beast and that has been the biggest challenge. It's hard to explain to anyone regardless of their interest in video games. Nintendo has also dropped the ball on one of the console's most compelling features: backwards compatibility. The Wii U is the only console that can play last gen games and use last gen controllers. For those of us who like arcade sticks for fighting games, that is a big deal.


The other big problem is the Wii itself. By the end, many gamers didn't feel like that console catered to them anymore. I honestly abandoned the Wii platform after Wario Land Shake. There was a period of 6 months with not a single game that interested me. It seemed like a good time to sell off the system and get a PS3. Part of what made the Wii U a good purchase for me was the backwards compatibility. I bought the system for $200 and hit up a Gamestop used game sale and got 6 Wii games for less than $50. I had a lot to catch up on since I sold my Wii.


All that said, it comes down to content. For my money, the only must-have console on the market is the 3DS. The PS4 and Xbox One don't have a single game between them that I'm interested in. The Wii U gets a lot of play due to certain VC games (Earthbound, Mega Man X) and a few downloadable titles as well as Mario 3D World. I cannot even consider the Vita when the 3DS is in the picture. If Nintendo could learn to use the VC better as a crutch during the slow months, the Wii U would be much more attractive to retro gamers. Hell, putting more rare games out on the VC, like Earthbound, would help as well.

[Stoeff.at]

Great show once again guys!

To comment the first part of the show:

I think the day the music died was actually when Nintendo first teasered the WiiU on E3.
Everyone knew it was way to weak to compete with the comming console generation and even would be worse then the ps360 when it comes to ports - as always with Nintendo hardware.

When the final specs were out and the gamepad did clearly not come with a game to showcase what it would be worse, really everyone should have gotten it.


There are at least 5 hardcore Nintendo fans in my friendcircle and not a single one of them has a WiiU (a lot of them have 3DSs). I baught Gamecube and Wii on launchday and was not really sure to buy a WiiU.
What f*ed me up in the end was my experience with ZombiU at the Vienna "Gamecity" fair.
Bad graphics, unprecise motion controlls and the second screen on a TV based system sucked - even ZombiU making the most of it.
The only person I know that owns a WiiU writes reviews for a german internetcommunity and he will of course get a PS4.

As a hardcore Nintendo fan I feel like everyone who still bought a WiiU did not think about it twice. It is way overpriced (whatever Nintendo says it costs them to build it), was old when it launched and the promised 3rd party support is the same old Nintendo bullshit as always since the N64.


I will now go back to play awsome games on my 3DS - yeah there is a Nintendosystem with GAMES out there people!

[Rodrigue]

-Messaging/Advertising

Yes

-No games that are like nothing we have ever seen before

Same holds true for the other platforms, except it's even worse because of fewer (good) exclusives

-substantially underpowered while being overpriced because of its controller

So they should ship without a controller?

-even a good chunk of their own fans aren't excited about it

That's not an "issue" with the system

-an online situation that still needs an assload of work

It really doesn't

-multiplatform games that are laughably unsupported both by the developers and by the consumers

Many of those multiplatform games are better on Wii U than on other platforms and that didn't stop the DS Wii and 3DS from succeeding as the third party games always come mostly from Japan and after the platforms start seeing success instead of before. Anyway "unsupported by consumers" is also not an issue with the system and they are supported about as well as any other port by the developers, in some situations better.

-one of their biggest features (off-tv play) is now a check box on the PS4. While there are some differences like the fact that Wii U is only one cost and the screen is bigger, the Vita streaming works better across longer distances and supports a significantly higher percentage of PS4 games.

nowhere near comparable due to the points you outlined yourself and the fact that it costs 250 dollars while you claim the wii u controller is overpriced at 100 with better screen & controls (vita is missing buttons and requires the use of the inaccurate and obnoxious rear touch pad to compensate).

[Hey Einstein!]

Well.... I am surprised at how many are leaving positive comments about the Wii U discussion.


I've loved the show for years but this wasn't for me. My favorite part of the podcast is always New Business because I just like hearing the guys getting excited (or angry) about video games and the reminiscing it brings on (LOVED John's Altered Beast quip).


But for me the show is at it's weakest when the focus is on industry analysis and speculation, which is what the whole Wii U segment was really. Greg was very strong in this area but it's not something I feel the show currently does well.


The RFN crew certainly know a lot more about Nintendo then I do and I concede that the sales figures are alarming. But personally I won't be convinced that the sky is falling in until Nintendo officially pull support, Virtual Boy style. This is a company that regularly defy standard expectations. They have squandered their lead and emerged from the shadows before more than once. The only things I believe they do with any constancy is put out games I enjoy and frustrate fans with their impenetrable business decisions.


As for the WiiU, I wish the Game Pad had a higher spec and the virtual console was better curated,  but otherwise I love the console. I am clearly a minority but I feel like it was designed just for me. Off TV Play was what sold me and I have not been disappointed. I can't afford a PS4 and although I love my Vita the analog sticks and shoulder buttons aren't a patch on the Game Pad, so Remote Play doesn't do it for me.


let's the negs begin!

[ejamer]

...
But for me the show is at it's weakest when the focus is on industry analysis and speculation, which is what the whole Wii U segment was really. Greg was very strong in this area but it's not something I feel the show currently does well.
...

I viewed it less as insightful industry analysis than a cathartic release from a bunch of gamers that are invested (emotionally and monetarily) in a console that hasn't come anywhere near reaching its potential.  Frankly, I liked hearing it because I feel the same way a lot of the time.

... I concede that the sales figures are alarming. But personally I won't be convinced that the sky is falling in until Nintendo officially pull support, Virtual Boy style. This is a company that regularly defy standard expectations. They have squandered their lead and emerged from the shadows before more than once. ...

Not sure if this is sticking your head in the sand, or just showing tremendous patience.


The sky isn't falling, although being concerned about an extremely limited number of games (both from third parties who have abandoned the console, and from Nintendo of America who may choose not to bring out some games I would really like to pay due to small install base and limited appeal) is clearly a reasonable reaction.


Your comment about Nintendo possibly being able to "emerge from the shadows" is also borderline ridiculous if you are talking about the current generation of gaming consoles. Do you really believe they can shake off the lack of interest from consumers, developers, and retailers when going against major competition?


Anyway, no negs coming from me. I just wish I was as excited about my Wii U as you are about yours.
(IF the Xenoblade sequel comes out, I'll probably be right there with you. Until that time I'm rather nervous.)

[Crimm]

I don't think we did a whole lot of industry talk. I think we looked at the numbers and reflected a bit on why we are where we are and what they mean.


There is a larger industry discussion to be had there than that, and we could have it. We, however, were not prepared for it at that moment. Keep in mind, Jon and I saw the numbers for the first time before we started recording. This was emotion.

[Fatty The Hutt]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/16/which-console-should-you-buy-this-holiday-season/

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/12/03/why-nintendos-wii-u-and-3ds-may-be-your-best-bets-this-holiday/?__lsa=5b24-6406

http://techland.time.com/2013/12/04/10-reasons-id-pick-the-wii-u-over-the-playstation-4-and-xbox-one-today/

http://gizmodo.com/why-im-getting-a-wii-u-1469695384/1469879253/@stephentotilo

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Wii-U-Winning-Next-Gen-Gaming-Xbox-One-Or-PS4-61059.html

NOOBZ! 

[Shaymin]

And nobody's listening to those articles.

[azeke]

And nobody's listening to those articles.

Because there's no audio version available, right?

[Leo13]

There must be some disconnect where I live. I don't know a single person with an Xbone or a PS4, but I know plenty of people that own Wii U including 5 just in my office.

[Hey Einstein!]

Likewise, I don't know anybody who has taken the plunge on Xbone or PS4 but a couple of people in my circle do have Wii U now.
I always figure what matters most is not which console sells best but which one your friends have so you can lend games to each other, get excited about new releases etc. The most fun gaming fun I've had this year was exchanging Animal Crossing progress reports via text messages with a friend.

[Leo13]

I agree with the which console your friends have. I buy my Wii U games digitally so I can't loan them out, but I do enjoy playing a few of them online (NBA 2K13 has gotten the most online play from us) and also if my buddy gets a new game that I've been considering it's nice to be able to talk with him and get specifics about it to determine if I'm going to get it too.