Topic: Sega to Scale Back M-Rated Wii Games

[Peachylala]

back on topic... for now
 
While I can imagine most of the gaming media is loving all this Wii getting denied M rated games (because M rated games are awesome lolol!11), this in some sick twisted sort of way may be good for Nintendo. I don't know why I am thinking this, but if third parties put hardly any effort into their games, Wii owners will buy more Nintendo games, giving Nintendo more money which equals a wider range of products for their two systems.
 
Christ, what is wrong with me?

[Kairon]

back on topic... for now
 
While I can imagine most of the gaming media is loving all this Wii getting denied M rated games (because M rated games are awesome lolol!11), this in some sick twisted sort of way may be good for Nintendo. I don't know why I am thinking this, but if third parties put hardly any effort into their games, Wii owners will buy more Nintendo games, giving Nintendo more money which equals a wider range of products for their two systems.
 
Christ, what is wrong with me?

This is scary. If the perception by players is that third parties have given up on them, players might give up on third parties as well.

[King of Twitch]

Sounds like the Game Cube.

[ShyGuy]

What is Kairon doing to save third parties on the Wii?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

back on topic... for now
 
While I can imagine most of the gaming media is loving all this Wii getting denied M rated games (because M rated games are awesome lolol!11), this in some sick twisted sort of way may be good for Nintendo. I don't know why I am thinking this, but if third parties put hardly any effort into their games, Wii owners will buy more Nintendo games, giving Nintendo more money which equals a wider range of products for their two systems.
 
Christ, what is wrong with me?

No, that is perfectly valid.  When Nintendo commands more cash in this industry, their Pac-Man shape on the Industry Pie Chart becomes more dominant, which certainly means the 3rd parties aren't doing as well as they could be (minus Nintendo, the remaing software market is confirmed to be in decline).  Publishers and devs will go belly-up or be "acquired" (hopefully by Nintendo dollars).  Good riddance, hardtard game companies.

If this Industry will be destroyed, it should be crushed under the weight of a Wii Fat Plus-sized Nintendo.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

back on topic... for now
 
While I can imagine most of the gaming media is loving all this Wii getting denied M rated games (because M rated games are awesome lolol!11), this in some sick twisted sort of way may be good for Nintendo. I don't know why I am thinking this, but if third parties put hardly any effort into their games, Wii owners will buy more Nintendo games, giving Nintendo more money which equals a wider range of products for their two systems.
 
Christ, what is wrong with me?

This is scary. If the perception by players is that third parties have given up on them, players might give up on third parties as well.

This is fantastic because we know the Expanded Audience is hardly invested in the 3rd parties including the software of the declining platforms.  3rd parties don't have anywhere to turn but their declining "fanbase."

Gaming's 2012 is approaching faster and faster.

[BlackNMild2k1]

If you want, I ran across a list of all/most the 3rd party studio closure/acquisition/downsizings and will start a new thread listing them all.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You'd do that for us?  Such a darling.

DEATH TO THE INDUSTRY

[BlackNMild2k1]

Done

Games Industry Death Watch 2009

[broodwars]

No, that is perfectly valid.  When Nintendo commands more cash in this industry, their Pac-Man shape on the Industry Pie Chart becomes more dominant, which certainly means the 3rd parties aren't doing as well as they could be (minus Nintendo, the remaing software market is confirmed to be in decline).  Publishers and devs will go belly-up or be "acquired" (hopefully by Nintendo dollars).  Good riddance, hardtard game companies.

If this Industry will be destroyed, it should be crushed under the weight of a Wii Fat Plus-sized Nintendo.

Hopefully not.  Nothing good can come of an industry controlled by Nintendo alone.

[Peachylala]

Nothing good can come out of an industry making the same old crap, just with an HD coating.

[broodwars]

Nothing good can come out of an industry making the same old crap, just with an HD coating.

Instead you'd rather have an industry controlled by a company that just makes the same old crap, just with motion control waggle?  I'll take a balanced industry with Nintendo producing games other companies don't, and in turn them producing games Nintendo doesn't.  Everyone gets the kind of games they want, and we continue to see the rise of new ideas in the industry through competition.

[Peachylala]

Instead you'd rather have an industry controlled by a company thatjust makes the same old crap, just with motion control waggle?

Exercise is always a good thing, no?

Would you rather have Nintendo release a Metroid game where the plot is explained by nanomachines? Would you rather have Nintendo release just FPS games with space marines? Would you rather have Nintendo give out money hats to game reviews?

Well?

[broodwars]

Would you rather have Nintendo release a Metroid game where the plot is explained by nanomachines?

They already did.  It's called Metroid Fusion.

Would you rather have Nintendo release just FPS games with space marines?

Of course, those games are the vast majority of games released on the other consoles.

Would you rather have Nintendo give out money hats to game reviews?

They don't have to.  All they have to do is slap the "nostalgia" sticker on a game, and reviewers will trip over each other to give out high scores

*eyes New Super Mario Bros. Wii*

[Peachylala]

*eyes New Super Mario Bros. Wii*

Sure didn't stop them from docking review points!

[Mop it up]

What I wonder is what kind of sales they would expect from a game like House of the Dead Overkill on another system. It's an arcade light-gun shooter, meaning there already isn't a big market for it to begin with. But Wii is the best system for that type of game because it can already be a light gun without the need of a peripheral, so if Sega wanted to produce another game in that series then it would probably be unwise to release it on another system.

As much as people try to contend it, it would seem to me that The Conduit is a good indicator of what sells on Wii. It may be a new IP but it received generally favourable review scores, regardless of the actual quality of the title. New IP's can seemingly sell well on other platforms; recent million + sellers I can think of are Borderlands, Battlefield Bad Company, Left 4 Dead, Batman Arkham Asylum, Prototype, Army of Two, InFamous, Dead Space, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, and Gears of War. Looking at a list like that, and the sales figures for "mature" games on Wii, it would seem to me that the majority of people with a Wii have already moved on to another system to satisfy their wants for that kind of game.

People also claim that games like No More Heroes and MadWorld are niche games. Once again, these are "mature" games which received favourable reviews, something which seems to sell on PS360. So what makes them niche? The fact that they're not shooters? Neither are Fallout 3, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, etc. They're niche because the market for "mature" games on the Wii is minuscule.

I know there are "mature" games like Call of Duty and Resident Evil which sell more than a million. I think that just goes to show that only "mature" games (and third-party games in general) which are a part of an established franchise have any real chance of selling on Wii. So it wouldn't be wise for any company to create an exclusive "mature" game for Wii as it'll post better numbers on the other systems, which means from here on out we'll likely see nothing but (possibly late) ports.

I think the only reason we try to refute these claims is because we want more games released for our favourite system.

It's amazing how a Nintendo game can sell 8 million worldwide and be considered a mediocre performance.

It isn't that it is a Nintendo game, but rather that it is a Mario game. If you go by percentages then Super Mario Galaxy is a slight under-performer based on the previous two 3D games. Super Mario 64 sold about 11 million worldwide, which is approximately 1/3rd of the system's userbase. Super Mario Sunshine sold 5.5 million worldwide which was 1/4th of the system's userbase. Super Mario Galaxy's 8 million isn't even 1/5th of the system's userbase. This goes to show something, though I'm not sure as to what.

[BlackNMild2k1]

People also claim that games like No More Heroes and MadWorld are niche games. Once again, these are "mature" games which received favourable reviews, something which seems to sell on PS360. So what makes them niche? The fact that they're not shooters? Neither are Fallout 3, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, etc. They're niche because the market for "mature" games on the Wii is minuscule.

I know there are "mature" games like Call of Duty and Resident Evil which sell more than a million. I think that just goes to show that only "mature" games (and third-party games in general) which are a part of an established franchise have any real chance of selling on Wii. So it wouldn't be wise for any company to create an exclusive "mature" game for Wii as it'll post better numbers on the other systems, which means from here on out we'll likely see nothing but (possibly late) ports.

I think the only reason we try to refute these claims is because we want more games released for our favourite system.

When did they get to you? It's not too late to come back to your senses.

Those games are niche because they are highly stylized and under-advertised, especially Mad World. The game was in freaking Black & White for crying out loud. I can barely watch B&W movies and this game is supposed to appeal to the mainstream?

& if 3rd parties had put in the effort from the beginning and not soiled their own reputations by regularly releasing garbage instead of what was implied or asked for, then people wouldn't be so hesitant to purchase something that doesn't have the Nintendo  branding on it when being released on a Nintendo system.

[Kairon]

A Suda51 game managed to sell 300,000 copies on the Wii.

It obviously goes beyond "mature" or "not mature." I think that the wii fanbase has a value system that is just different from what you'd expect. You can't keep using the traditional and increasingly hardcore idea of a "gamer" when looking at the Wii. This entire console is built around challenging that perception.

[ShyGuy]

The dirty little secret of this generation's "hardcore players" is they are greatly made up of a group that was looked down upon last generation. They are the frat boys and dudebros who only played GTA, Halo, and Madden. They don't branch out to try new things. During the days of the PS2/Cube/Xbox they called them jocks and softcore players.

Look at where the Japanese RPG market is this generation, the "hardcore" don't want those game on their HD systems. They want first person shooters, third person shooters, and the occasional third person melee combat.

They didn't want Madworld because it has a bizarre and scary art style. They didn't want Deadly Creatures because bugs are for little kids. Rail shooters don't fit their criteria either. No more heroes despite being too weird for most of them was a modest success for Suda51 and I expect the 360/PS3 port to do decently.

[BlackNMild2k1]

As a continuation to my last post;

Ubisoft is a good example of good will gone sour. They started off with a genuine good solid effort in Red Steel even though it seemed a little rushed. THen they followed it up with Raving Rabbids. Everything was still good at that point. Many Petz, Babiez, Horsez, and two Rabbid party games later, most of us have pretty much stopped looking at Ubisoft games.
Rabbids Go Home suffers because of this.

Capcom is another offender of this violation of trust. They brought over RE4 with promises of more to come if RE:UC does well and all we get after we all buy into the lies is RE:DSC while RE5 goes HD and ignores the entire Wii audience. Then the perfect chance for Capcom to redeem the mistake (RE5 Alternate Edition) and it is an exclusive to an unproven peripheral when it could be a multi release alongside the motion focused market leader.
But then everyone wants to lame the Wii for saggin sales and non-interest from "core" "mature" gamers when all we get are low budget, late port, mini-game focused, on-rail, unoptimized, afterthought shovelware projects that they couldn't even be bothered to bug test and advertise.

We aren't the problem, they are. Give us the same games you would make for the other systems only make them work on the Wii. That is all. We don't want the gameplay changed because you think you know what some fictional focus tested typical Wii user would be able to handle and would want to play. We aren't against the rail shooter, but we are against the Rail shooter in place of a real game that the other consoles got as some sort of consolation prize because Wii users are all casual and can't play regular regular games because their too hard, complicated or complex. [/rant.... for now]

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

My army is growing.

[Mop it up]

& if 3rd parties had put in the effort from the beginning and not soiled their own reputations by regularly releasing garbage instead of what was implied or asked for, then people wouldn't be so hesitant to purchase something that doesn't have the Nintendo  branding on it when being released on a Nintendo system.

I wouldn't disagree with that. In fact, I have a similar sentiment. Third-excuse-makers needed to give the Wii full support from day one in order to establish a market for their games, they're the ones who are responsible for a lack of market for "mature" games. I imagine most of the people who would buy their games have already gotten tired of waiting and own another system by now. For this generation, it is probably too late. I can only hope they've learned from this and will give Nintendo's next system full support from day one, though with their refusal to ever admit they've done something wrong, it isn't looking likely.

The Wii has become a shovelware, late-port, low-budget dumping ground; dozens of low quality titles pushed out every month, with only a short shelf life before disappearing into obscurity. It matters not to most companies because they probably need only a few thousand copies sold to break even and everything else is cash in the bank. But they seem to need to sell those few thousand relatively quickly before they disappear into the bargain bin, then replaced on the shelves by newer, cheaper dreck.

I sugar-coated that, of course. This isn't about what should have been, it is about what is. And what is would seem to be that there isn't much of a market for "mature" titles on Wii, especially compared to PS360.

[Kairon]

*raises hand*

I'd uh... just like to take this moment to say that even though, since I only own a Wii, I may never get the chance to own games like Mirror's Edge or Bayonetta... I'm fine. I've got a Wii backlog about a dozen games deep, filled with third-party titles like A Boy and His Blob, the collector's edition of Cursed Mountain, and well... okay, sue me, The Dog Island. It's an old game, but it caught my interest, it got decent reviews, and I just haven't had the time to find out what that's all about yet you know?

Wii gamers have a challenge when it comes to seeking out traditionally sensationalistic games (I got No More Heroes 2 pre-ordered though!), but the 3rd party offerings, taken on the whole instead of just one segment of the market, are better than they've been for quite awhile for a Nintendo-only owner like me.

[broodwars]

The Wii has become a shovelware, late-port, low-budget dumping ground; dozens of low quality titles pushed out every month, with only a short shelf life before disappearing into obscurity. It matters not to most companies because they probably need only a few thousand copies sold to break even and everything else is cash in the bank. But they seem to need to sell those few thousand relatively quickly before they disappear into the bargain bin, then replaced on the shelves by newer, cheaper dreck.

This is true, but you can't put the full blame for this on the 3rd parties, not when Nintendo designed the Wii to be like this by intentionally making it dramatically less powerful than its competitors and seemingly doing whatever it can to half-ass development on the console.  Releasing a console that's cheap to make games on means you're going to have cheap shovelware that only needs a relative handful of sales to turn a profit.  Nintendo chose to have that happen to the Wii.  Also, how can the 3rd parties be expected to put their full effort into a title on the platform that's not going to sell, no matter how good the game is, when Nintendo themselves clearly aren't putting their full effort behind their Wii titles?

That said, we have and are going to have good titles on the Wii.  They're just few and far-between, seemingly more so than on the HD consoles.

[BlackNMild2k1]

In response to Mop it up:
But that is the the point. The "mature" market is here, we just aren't getting the "mature" games we want. They instead get released on the HD consoles and we get "dreck" and unwanted compromises in their place.*cough*railshooter*cough*

Show me the GTA Wii or the RE5 Wii or the Assassins Creed Wii. Most of these games even get a DS version, yet a Wii version is not possible. WTF is that... i don't even. Where are all the Wii versions of the same "mature" games that are getting ported around to all the HD system? and we don't want to hear the "It can only be done on an HD system" BS because that wasn't stopping the exact same type of games from being made last gen or even on teh PSP & DS this gen.