Hantzopoulos said, "But that begs the question, are we going to do more mature titles for the Wii? And it's like, probably not. Look at Dead Space. We were stunned. That was my litmus test. Basically, it's like, okay, you got EA, who can put all the marketing muscle behind this, an established franchise that scored quite well on 360 and PS3. They should be able to actually hit this out of the park, right? We get numbers, real numbers aside from NPD, and I'm like, 'Woah'."
Adding his thoughts on the differences between Nintendo's platforms and other consoles, Hantzopoulos added "Conduit's done quite well for us. It's been slow burn. That's the other thing you find out about the Wii. It's not necessarily first three weeks like most titles. And DS. It's a longer burn, actually."
In an interview last August with Wired, Sega President and COO Mike Hayes had stated that it would be arrogant for Sega to pull out of the market for Mature-rated games on Wii. Hayes said "Sega would be extremely arrogant to have a title that didn't do as well as we thought on a platform and then say, 'Those kind of games don't sell on that platform.'"
Hantzopoulos said, "But that begs the question, are we going to do more mature titles for the Wii? And it's like, probably not. Look at Dead Space. We were stunned. That was my litmus test. Basically, it's like, okay, you got EA, who can put all the marketing muscle behind this, an established franchise that scored quite well on 360 and PS3. They should be able to actually hit this out of the park, right? We get numbers, real numbers aside from NPD, and I'm like, 'Woah'."
They forgot the part where EA didn't actually put any marketing muscle behind this other than the initial announcement.
say what you will about the marketing of the game... but it's not like Dead Space was a no-name series.
In October 2009, Demon Souls for PS3 made the top 20, and I've to this day never seen a single advertisement for it. Same goes with Borderlands. On the HD systems, these types of games tend to sell more than 9000 copies without any more help than EA gave DS:E.
Hantzopoulos cited Dead Space Extraction as an example of a Mature-rated Wii game from a major publisher, EA, with a strong marketing push that was unable to sell strongly. Dead Space Extraction sold only 9000 copies (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/../specialArt.cfm?artid=20225) in its release month of September 2009.
Adding his thoughts on the differences between Nintendo's platforms and other consoles, Hantzopoulos added "Conduit's done quite well for us. It's been slow burn. That's the other thing you find out about the Wii. It's not necessarily first three weeks like most titles. And DS. It's a longer burn, actually."
Oh noes, shoddy games aimed at a niche audience fail! Who would've thought! Everybody always points at garbage like The Conduit while ignoring the sales of the Call of Duty games on the Wii.Seriously, does this surprise us anymore? The Sega guy's comments just make me face palm.
In October 2009, Demon Souls for PS3 made the top 20
Same goes with Borderlands.
On the HD systems, these types of games tend to sell more than 9000 copies without any more help than EA gave DS:E.
the 80% of the people out there who go out and buy a Wii box are happy with Wii Sports and they don’t really need another game.
I just realized something.
Sega Studio. How many development studios does Sega of America have internally? If this is the case, then why the hell are we getting bent out of shape over thiswell, most of us are not but still.
I pray that this doesn't piss Nintendo fans off enough for them to boycott Monkey Ball Step & Roll.
Does Sega even produce 'mature' games internally anymore? I thought they merely published them.
Just out of curiosity, how many of you actually played Dead Space Extraction?
Definitely not I -- the product does not perform a job I want done, so my interest had evaporated.
Just out of curiosity, how many of you actually played Dead Space Extraction?
I certainly have and still own it, actually. I'm currently trying to decide whether it (along with New Super Mario Bros. Wii) will be a sacrifice at the altar of Bioshock 2 in a month, but I did like the game. It has a truly abysmal number of easy user path bugs, many leading to crashes, pacing issues and a complete lack of extras (on top of a very short runtime) that mean you'll never want to replay it...but it is a good game. It's completely blown out of the water by Darkside Chronicles, though.
Just out of curiosity, how many of you actually played Dead Space Extraction?
I believe SixthAngel is with me on this one, but it's not the "rail shooting" i'm interested in, it's the physical TARGET PRACTICE that I want, using calibrated line-of-sight aim; a simple firearms simulator. All of Sega's Wii shooters succeed in this regard. My whole attraction to arcade shooters has everything to do with wielding some "toy" gun and applying a high level of hand-eye coordination and a little shoulder stamina. My aim is my own, not some glorified presentation pointer.
I can't seen to find data on how well Silent Hill Homecoming did, but I did find a page on the internet (so it must be true) stating that Shattered Memories sold 47K in it's first week, which was in line with Homecoming.
I guess I do most of my TV watching these days on Hulu via PlayOn, so it's possible that I'm just completely out of touch on what's being advertised. I would say, however, that running ads on TV is only a very small part of what makes effective advertising. A better way of advertising, in my opinion, is talking with sites like ours, and the major gaming blogs, so they will run news stories about your game to keep your game in the public mindshare leading up to release. I remember reading lots of stories about Dead Space: Extraction in the months leading up to it's release. Likewise, I remember thinking very little about Borderlands until it was pretty much on the store shelves.Just like to remind you what website you write for here. :) The way you worded this, it sounded like you were surprised Take 2 didn't come here to advertise their game. :)
So considering giants like Galaxy are clearly not meeting their sales potential it makes sense for publishers to be weary about new Wii investments. Especially after three earnest attempts.3D Mario titles are not as accessible to newcomers as the 2D titles are, not matter how awesome (Galaxy) they are. It's also a known fact that no matter how good the 3D Mario games are, their overall sales will not make a dent in the long burn of the 2D Mario titles.
Metroid Prime 3 got the same advertising when it was first released, and it sold only a tiny bit less then Bioshock 1's overall sales on the 360. Then again, Metroid Prime is part of a established franchise.
Considering this is Silent Hill's first outing on a Nintendo console, I think it would be pretty incredible if it did sell as well as Homecoming did already (especially considering Konami's Dead Space Extraction-esque method of only advertising in web banners).
Considering this is Silent Hill's first outing on a Nintendo console, I think it would be pretty incredible if it did sell as well as Homecoming.
"Mature" is not a genre.
I wish someone would strap some dynamite to these rails and derail them. Rail shooters suck! :(Can't expect third excuse makers to use the last dying bit of their brain power to make something good. God forbid they do, it might sell well.
Its tough to blame Sega on this one. They spent a lot of time on three quality games, threw them at the wall, and couldn't get one to stick. Wii sales are just odd. Some great games tank and some games that should tank sell great. Galaxy is an interesting case study. While it's sales are certainely good they should be much higher. There are millions of Wii owners ignoring this title. Is it that they don't know about it or are they just not interested in 3D platforming? With the userbase at the size it is now it'll be interesting to see how Galaxy 2 performs if this new userbase see advertising for it.
So considering giants like Galaxy are clearly not meeting their sales potential it makes sense for publishers to be weary about new Wii investments. Especially after three earnest attempts.
QuoteSo considering giants like Galaxy are clearly not meeting their sales potential it makes sense for publishers to be weary about new Wii investments. Especially after three earnest attempts.
3D Mario titles are not as accessible to newcomers as the 2D titles are, not matter how awesome (Galaxy) they are. It's also a known fact that no matter how good the 3D Mario games are, their overall sales will not make a dent in the long burn of the 2D Mario titles.
So considering giants like Galaxy are clearly not meeting their sales potential it makes sense for publishers to be weary about new Wii investments. Especially after three earnest attempts.
Shattered Memories has flaws, but it is very enjoyable. Not bad for the first entry (and a re-imagining) of the very first Silent Hill game.
There are millions of Wii owners ignoring this title. Is it that they don't know about it or are they just not interested in 3D platforming?
It already has, from what I read.There are millions of Wii owners ignoring this title. Is it that they don't know about it or are they just not interested in 3D platforming?
The latter. I believe NSMBW has already beaten Galaxy in some territories.
lol, ive beaten SMB1 100s and 100s of timesAmazing it doesn't get old, no?
back on topic... for now
While I can imagine most of the gaming media is loving all this Wii getting denied M rated games (because M rated games are awesome lolol!11), this in some sick twisted sort of way may be good for Nintendo. I don't know why I am thinking this, but if third parties put hardly any effort into their games, Wii owners will buy more Nintendo games, giving Nintendo more money which equals a wider range of products for their two systems.
Christ, what is wrong with me?
back on topic... for now
While I can imagine most of the gaming media is loving all this Wii getting denied M rated games (because M rated games are awesome lolol!11), this in some sick twisted sort of way may be good for Nintendo. I don't know why I am thinking this, but if third parties put hardly any effort into their games, Wii owners will buy more Nintendo games, giving Nintendo more money which equals a wider range of products for their two systems.
Christ, what is wrong with me?
back on topic... for now
While I can imagine most of the gaming media is loving all this Wii getting denied M rated games (because M rated games are awesome lolol!11), this in some sick twisted sort of way may be good for Nintendo. I don't know why I am thinking this, but if third parties put hardly any effort into their games, Wii owners will buy more Nintendo games, giving Nintendo more money which equals a wider range of products for their two systems.
Christ, what is wrong with me?
This is scary. If the perception by players is that third parties have given up on them, players might give up on third parties as well.
No, that is perfectly valid. When Nintendo commands more cash in this industry, their Pac-Man shape on the Industry Pie Chart becomes more dominant, which certainly means the 3rd parties aren't doing as well as they could be (minus Nintendo, the remaing software market is confirmed to be in decline). Publishers and devs will go belly-up or be "acquired" (hopefully by Nintendo dollars). Good riddance, hardtard game companies.
If this Industry will be destroyed, it should be crushed under the weight of a Wii Fat Plus-sized Nintendo.
Nothing good can come out of an industry making the same old crap, just with an HD coating.
Instead you'd rather have an industry controlled by a company thatjust makes the same old crap, just with motion control waggle?Exercise is always a good thing, no?
Would you rather have Nintendo release a Metroid game where the plot is explained by nanomachines?
Would you rather have Nintendo release just FPS games with space marines?
Would you rather have Nintendo give out money hats to game reviews?
*eyes New Super Mario Bros. Wii*Sure didn't stop them from docking review points!
It's amazing how a Nintendo game can sell 8 million worldwide and be considered a mediocre performance.It isn't that it is a Nintendo game, but rather that it is a Mario game. If you go by percentages then Super Mario Galaxy is a slight under-performer based on the previous two 3D games. Super Mario 64 sold about 11 million worldwide, which is approximately 1/3rd of the system's userbase. Super Mario Sunshine sold 5.5 million worldwide which was 1/4th of the system's userbase. Super Mario Galaxy's 8 million isn't even 1/5th of the system's userbase. This goes to show something, though I'm not sure as to what.
People also claim that games like No More Heroes and MadWorld are niche games. Once again, these are "mature" games which received favourable reviews, something which seems to sell on PS360. So what makes them niche? The fact that they're not shooters? Neither are Fallout 3, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, etc. They're niche because the market for "mature" games on the Wii is minuscule.
I know there are "mature" games like Call of Duty and Resident Evil which sell more than a million. I think that just goes to show that only "mature" games (and third-party games in general) which are a part of an established franchise have any real chance of selling on Wii. So it wouldn't be wise for any company to create an exclusive "mature" game for Wii as it'll post better numbers on the other systems, which means from here on out we'll likely see nothing but (possibly late) ports.
I think the only reason we try to refute these claims is because we want more games released for our favourite system.
& if 3rd parties had put in the effort from the beginning and not soiled their own reputations by regularly releasing garbage instead of what was implied or asked for, then people wouldn't be so hesitant to purchase something that doesn't have the Nintendo branding on it when being released on a Nintendo system.I wouldn't disagree with that. In fact, I have a similar sentiment. Third-excuse-makers needed to give the Wii full support from day one in order to establish a market for their games, they're the ones who are responsible for a lack of market for "mature" games. I imagine most of the people who would buy their games have already gotten tired of waiting and own another system by now. For this generation, it is probably too late. I can only hope they've learned from this and will give Nintendo's next system full support from day one, though with their refusal to ever admit they've done something wrong, it isn't looking likely.
The Wii has become a shovelware, late-port, low-budget dumping ground; dozens of low quality titles pushed out every month, with only a short shelf life before disappearing into obscurity. It matters not to most companies because they probably need only a few thousand copies sold to break even and everything else is cash in the bank. But they seem to need to sell those few thousand relatively quickly before they disappear into the bargain bin, then replaced on the shelves by newer, cheaper dreck.
*raises hand*Wait, I thought you owned a PlayStation 3? Regardless, I find myself agreeing with pretty much every word you said.
Also, how can the 3rd parties be expected to put their full effort into a title on the platform that's not going to sell, no matter how good the game is, when Nintendo themselves clearly aren't putting their full effort behind their Wii titles?Show me these third-party games of which you speak which have the same effort as Nintendo's own games. The few that do exist seem to have sold pretty well. And maybe people wouldn't be weary of third-party games if they didn't release so much dross. Nintendo earned their reputation by creating great games.
But that is the the point. The "mature" market is here, we just aren't getting the "mature" games we want. They instead get released on the HD consoles and we get "dreck" and unwanted compromises in their place.*cough*railshooter*cough*How do you know the market is still here? If you wanted the games you just mentioned, would you not have already went out and bought one of those systems? We're over three years into this generation (four years for the XBox 360) so I have a hard time believing that there are very many people left who would buy those games.
PS2 didn't have these types of problems and the whole SD vs HD argument is BS so I really don't care to hear it.The other two systems have more than just HD, they have so much more processing power and other specs I don't comprehend. I have no doubts that there are games on those systems which are not possible on Wii. But I haven't really played any games on either system so I can't really discuss what of them could be possible on Wii, or what kind of extra programming would be required to re-work games.
This is true, but you can't put the full blame for this on the 3rd parties, not when Nintendo designed the Wii to be like this by intentionally making it dramatically less powerful than its competitors
Also, how can the 3rd parties be expected to put their full effort into a title on the platform that's not going to sell, no matter how good the game is, when Nintendo themselves clearly aren't putting their full effort behind their Wii titles?
"the collector's edition of Cursed Mountain"
What the hell! Such an edition exists??
REAL Survival Horror seems to be another genre that the dudebros of the HD persuasion can't handle. That's why RE5 is all steroids and guns.
What store sold it? HOW DID I MISS IT?
Sales of Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles on Wii have been a"disappointment", the director general of Capcom France has revealed.
According to Antoine Seux, sales of other mature games, such asMadWorld and Dead Rising, on the platform have also suffered as coregamers have "obviously moved on".
Speaking in an interview with Gamekult (http://www.gamekult.com/articles/A0000081940/), Seux said that Darkside Chronicles had sold a disappointing 16,000 units by December 23 - lower than hoped. The sales, he continued, pointed to a very clear problem withcore gamers moving on from the Wii and its audience becoming a muchbroader one. Resident Evil 4 on Wii worked well, he added, selling over140,000 units. But as it was released in June 2007 the market "hadnothing to do". The situation has since "radically changed" he notes, with anoversupply of games in 2009. Core games are selling less and less onthe Nintendo console, he suggested, with sales of MadWorld, DeadRising: Chop Till You Drop and The House of the Dead: Overkill allfailing to make significant impact.
In contrast, games such as Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games andNew Super Mario Bros "work great", he added. But the Wii market isbecoming complex.
Seux's comments echo those made earlier this week (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/more-mature-wii-games-from-sega-unlikely) by SEGA studio director Constantine Hantzopoulos.
The poor performance of EA's Dead Space Extraction - a game with plentyof marketing muscle - "stunned" the company, said Hantzopoulos, whoadded that SEGA probably wouldn't release any more mature games ontothe Wii.
Sure is:
http://www.amazon.com/Cursed-Mountain-Limited-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B002M6VSOM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1262856536&sr=8-2
It may just be me, but I think 2D games are a lot harder than modern 3D games. I don't know why, but on the old NES games they seemed hard, and even playing them now I keep dying...
REAL Survival Horror seems to be another genre that the dudebros of the HD persuasion can't handle. That's why RE5 is all steroids and guns.
While everyone complains about the Wii they don't seem to notice the huge difference in the "hardcore" games this time around. FPS were small on ps2 compared to today. A lot of the games I liked last generation and the "gamers" loved are essentially nonexistent right now outside the ds.
REAL Survival Horror seems to be another genre that the dudebros of the HD persuasion can't handle. That's why RE5 is all steroids and guns.
While everyone complains about the Wii they don't seem to notice the huge difference in the "hardcore" games this time around. FPS were small on ps2 compared to today. A lot of the games I liked last generation and the "gamers" loved are essentially nonexistent right now outside the ds.
This man speaks truth.
Modern games almost seem designed to prevent the player from losing. They're still a LOT more confusing to newcomers because you've got movement in three dimensions to account for and usually more than the two buttons the NES had. They tend to add all kinds of special jumps and maneuvers whereas a 2D game would limit its physics to "if you're on the ground you can jump, if you land on something you can walk on it".
Already covered here (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=20726)