Topic: Game Journalism

[NWR_DrewMG]

Well my opinions haven't exactly gone over well in this thread, have they?     

And of course I don't think my opinion is wrong.  It's MY opinion.  I just know it's not shared. 

[Chozo Ghost]

Jerks?  Really?  If you don't like it don't buy it.

Um, that was actually my point. We DON'T like shovelware, so we shouldn't buy it (ie: boycott it). If enough of us did that sales would plummet and it would send a message to these (insert word other than jerks here).

[UncleBob]

The sales are already low - that's what third parties are crying about... And besides *we* already don't buy the shovelware. A boycott by us isn't going to hurt their sales much.

[Kairon]

Jerks?  Really?  If you don't like it don't buy it.

Um, that was actually my point. We DON'T like shovelware, so we shouldn't buy it (ie: boycott it). If enough of us did that sales would plummet and it would send a message to these (insert word other than jerks here).

Well, didn't Ubisoft and others recently start receiving the message? Several companies have mentioned weakening casual market conditions.

[ThePerm]

http://twitter.com/mesattack

Zoo Games Ceo's Twitter page



http://in.us.biz.yahoo.com/e/091221/zooe.ob8-k.html

[Nemo]

I really like this thread as a whole. I like to remain optimistic, and still am, but the wall speaks truths deeper than any words really can. I really feel that comparing the Wii Wall-O-Shame against GameCube (previous Nintendo gen), PS2 (previous market leader) or PS3/360 (current console competition), the Wii's line-up would be unfavorable. I really think that there are lot of negative implications on game publishers and casual buyers that I had not considered before reading this thread (I'm a casual forum-goer, so I haven't read other threads where this has been discussed). The good thing for you-and-I, we're not casual buyers. We know to check out reviews to see what's good and what's not before considering a purchase. Also, even if there's an astonishingly higher percentage of bad games than ever before, I think there's still enough fun games for any reasonable gamer.

Here's what I've got from the wall:

UbiSoft
No More Heroes
NitroBike (I kind of regret buying this one)

Activision
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Guitar Hero III
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith

Electronic Arts
Boom Blox
Beatles Rock Band

THQ
de Blob

Sega
The Conduit

Capcom
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
Zak & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure

Zoo Games, Majesco, Konami, Take-Two, Namco-Bandai, Square-Enix
none

That's eleven games off the wall of shame... that I bought.

I also have bought some third party games not on the "wall." 

Other Publishers
Pinball Hall of Fame: Williams Collection (Crave Entertainment)
Geometry Wars: Galaxies (Sierra)
Ghostbusters: The Video Game (Atari)

I did the math, and comparing my GameCube and Wii libraries. GameCube was 58% third party; Wii is currently 60% third party. So, I'm still buying a similar ratio of 1st to 3rd party games. There's just also a lot more bad games that I'm not buying (bad or just don't appeal to me).

I don't expect things to change much this generation. It's been 3 and 1/4 years since the Wii first came out. We could expect that the Wii's healthy life cycle is more than half finished. Chances are, a year or two from now, the Wii store shelves still won't be third party gaming heaven. I accept it and I'm fine with it. I'll just keep buying the excellent games that get released.

Games from the Wall that I'm interested in/might buy
Dead Space: Extraction
Tiger Woods: PGA Tour '10
A Boy and His Blob
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Monster Hunter Tri

Additionally, although I don't own it, I beat Dragon Quest: Swords with a friend. Then, later, I borrowed it and played through it again. (I also intend to buy Dragon Quest X when it comes out.)

Anyhow, I conclude that the Wii is a strange phenomenon with regard to third parties. I, however, find there to be enough games to keep me busy.

[Kairon]

I really think that there are lot of negative implications on game publishers and casual buyers that I had not considered before reading this thread (I'm a casual forum-goer, so I haven't read other threads where this has been discussed).

Yeah, I think this is true.

The "Wall" isn't so much a situation dealing with extremely educated gamers like us, nor would I argue that it's any definitive proof of quality or lack thereof, but rather it's supposed to illustrate the negative effect that a lack of attempt at differentiation, communication, or education can have on the greater number of less hardcore end consumers.

I think the argument here is that you need to make an effort to have your game stand out from the wall. Whether that effort be in ensuring that your packaging pops (bad cover art is...why god why... T_T), advertising in visible areas (Yes:Life Unexpected, No: Web Ads), generating word of mouth(Alpha Moms anyone?), or simply going out into the real world and having people try your game (like Nintendo has done more than a few times), you need to do more than release a game to market and expect your consumers to do all the work for you. They're the ones spending hard-earned cash on your titles. They need to be wooed a little bit.

[KDR_11k]

The 3rd parties are bringing a literal feast to the table of the HD gamers

You mean these discs are edible?

[Stratos]

The 3rd parties are bringing a literal feast to the table of the HD gamers

You mean these discs are edible?

 I think Mop it up said something along the lines of that somewhere else a little bit ago. They make a great seasoning if you grind them up

I agree with Kairon and Nemo. I'm finding plenty of games on the Wii that are keeping me occupied, primarily from 3rd parties. My wishlist is jamb packed with released and upcoming games. I do expect to eventually get a 360 or PS3 because there are games I'd like to try on both systems that appear great, but I never seem to have the money or time because of all the great titles released  on Wii and DS with the occasional PC title thrown in for good measure. Maybe I just have more eclectic tastes than most Nintendo fans/Wii owners but the Wii has good games in every genre I enjoy and multiple choices that are good.

I find it interesting how people feel the need to boycott good games for peculiar reasons. Like how people were going to not buy No More Heroes 2 because the first one and or future titles might appear on other consoles. Does seeing a title spread out to be released on other systems really offend people that much?

[Chozo Ghost]

Does seeing a title spread out to be released on other systems really offend people that much?

It does if it is perceived as a stab in the back. I don't know if the NMH franchise really fits the bill for that because it not only stayed exclusive to the Wii for a long time, but also got a sequel before becoming multiplatform. But something like RE4 for the GC certainly was offensive. The game was promised as a GC exclusive, but then before it had even been released on the GC Crapcom announced it was also coming to the PS2 and with bonus content. That was a slap in the face to GC owners, and also a betrayal to Nintendo to whom I understand Capcom had made a deal for the game to be exclusive to their system. It was treachery, just like when Benedict Arnold handed over the fort to the enemy.

But AFAIK no promises were ever made about NMH being a Nintendo exclusive for any amount of time, and certainly not forever. It will be upsetting though if the NMH franchise NEVER returns to Nintendo hardware ever again. I think that would be a betrayal of sorts, since the Wii was the crib where that franchise was birthed and nurtured until it could crawl on its own. NMH can wander and explore other rooms, but it sure as hell better come back where it belongs at the end of the day. That's my 2 cents.

[Stratos]

It just seems like some people are ready to jump on the boycott bandwagon because of trivial things like that and I think it is a shame that they won't try a game for it's own merit.

[D_Average]

RE4 going to the PS2 was a slap to the face?  Ok. This is just getting weird now. RE4 is a video game. What's the big deal if more people have access to it?

[KDR_11k]

Well, Capcom made a big deal about how it would be Gamecube exclusive and all that and just before they released it they announced that the PS2 will get a port with additional content.

[Chozo Ghost]

RE4 going to the PS2 was a slap to the face?  Ok. This is just getting weird now. RE4 is a video game. What's the big deal if more people have access to it?

Because another console is getting what was promised as an exclusive, and also this other console is getting bonus content. And announcing this before it had even been released on the GC seriously damaged the sales, because most people decided to wait for the PS2 version. The GC needed quality M rated exclusives like that to bolster its sales, especially at that point in its life. It looked like they were going to get it with RE4, but then Crapcom pulled the rug out from under them.

[that Baby guy]

There's nothing wrong with a title going multiplatform, from the perspective as a normal consumer.  Looking from a financial perspective, though, the announcement that it would be released on the PS2 with exclusive content definitely should have been made after the GC release.

[Chozo Ghost]

There's nothing wrong with a title going multiplatform, from the perspective as a normal consumer.  Looking from a financial perspective, though, the announcement that it would be released on the PS2 with exclusive content definitely should have been made after the GC release.

Agreed. Capcom FUBARed their own game's sales by doing what they did.They should have pushed the PS2 version's launch back and sat on the announcement until the GC's version had been on the market for a few months.

[BlackNMild2k1]

You guys forgot one of the most important parts of the RE4 GC exclusive story.
Mikami promised that it was gonna stay GC exclusive and if it didn't, he would chop off his own head. 1 month before RE4 released on GC, Capcom had that press announcement that the PS2 version would have extra missions and whatever else and be out in 6-7 months.

There were lots of PS2 gamers that were contemplating purchasing a GC just for RE4 who were relieved when they didn't have to since the RE4+ was coming to the PS2.

As promised, Mikami cut off his own head (Capcom) and started his own company. He had no involvement in the RE4 port or RE5, he felt betrayed by his own company and shamed because he couldn't keep his word of exclusivity.

I do think he started a different company before he ended up at Platinum games though, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

[Chozo Ghost]

I admire that he kept true to his word. He was the real talent behind the RE franchise, and that's why RE4 was so awesome and why RE5 sucks ass.

[Peachylala]

I do think he started a different company before he ended up at Platinum games though, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Mikami started Platinum under a different name, but the name crosses my mind at the moment.
 
Still: Nintendo + Platinum = what might be the sexist game ever made.

[Halbred]

I admire that he kept true to his word. He was the real talent behind the RE franchise, and that's why RE4 was so awesome and why RE5 sucks ass.

It's the same game.

[KDR_11k]

I do think he started a different company before he ended up at Platinum games though, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

At first he went with Clover AFAIK which was pretty much a second party to Capcom, once Cap shut them down (after the failure of Okami on the PS2) they founded Platinum instead.

[Deguello]

One thing I'd like to ask to those who state that Wii owners both enthusiast and non-enthusiast should be "grateful" or "happy" with this stock of third party offerings, is it a bad thing for them to raise their standards beyond these offerings?

[Kairon]

It's never wrong to want something better. But don't let that blind you to what you've got.

...otherwise poor games like Alien Syndrome don't get any love... T_T

[BlackNMild2k1]

One thing I'd like to ask to those who state that Wii owners both enthusiast and non-enthusiast should be "grateful" or "happy" with this stock of third party offerings, is it a bad thing for them to raise their standards beyond these offerings?

For those waiting for third parties to "get their act together" on Wii, you can stop pining.  It ain't gonna happen, not this generation.  That's why I think threads like these are pointless...it's like complaining about Nintendo themselves making more casual-oriented games than "core" games.  It's not going to change no matter how bad you want it to, so at some point you gotta stop complaining, accept it for what it is, and move on.

translated: Lower your standards, bite your tongue, stay misinformed* and take it like a chump.

*<insert link to Nintendo Wall of Glory here>
then :search: casual oriented vs core titles

[Mop it up]

This thread feels like negative reinforcement. I see a lot of complaining and finger pointing at the mistakes and bad decisions of third-parties, but it seems like whenever they do something right, it is either ignored, or passed off as something nobody wanted, or deemed unacceptable because of other games the company released. This paints the audience as being impossible to please, which gives no incentive for third-parties to try harder. I'm well aware of the conditions which lead to this situation, but I don't agree that blasting third-parties is the solution. What they need is encouragement. Like it or not, the Wii is something completely different marketed towards a different audience, something that third-parties simply aren't used to. They need time, and negativity won't help this.

That's my simple opinion on that. Tear it apart, if you want. I'm going to go play and enjoy some games.