Topic: Episode 412: The Pink Bros

[Jonnyboy117]

We played games over the holiday break and would like to tell you about all of them!

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/39360/episode-412-the-pink-bros

We're back with the whole crew to deliver a double-dose of holiday New Business. Mister Lindemann is back from the frozen north with all kinds of retro fun, starting with the supremely underplayed Bionic Commando: Elite Forces from ye olde Game Boy Color. Guillaume, still in the frozen north, delivers much-requested coverage of that Sportsball eShop game that sounds like a pretty nice indie multiplayer thing. Next up is James, who confounds everyone with his instant conversion to the cult of Atelier Escha & Logy -- no kidding, that is the name of a video game being sold in America. He'll tell you all about it. Jonny follows that with a game that's equally insane but much more relevant to our listeners, as he goes back to Bayonetta five years after the first attempt.

We had enough interesting games for a whole other round of New Business, so Jon picks up after the break with a little story about uncovering his childhood games and a debate over what to do with them. He also posits a fun but controversial question for the ages: is Final Fantasy VI better than its adored contemporary, Chrono Trigger? Then, Gui deftly connects his impressions of Shantae & the Pirate's Curse and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker by asking if they might both be a little too polished and familiar. Jonny concludes this big episode with updated thoughts on Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, thanks to a fun visit from friend-of-the-show Michael "TYP" Cole.

During the recording of this very show, that same TYP finally joined Twitter, and in the days since, this momentous occasion ignited a chain of events such that we now have an official Radio Free Nintendo account on Twitter! Follow that to be alerted when new episodes are posted, get previews of upcoming content, and submit pithy questions and comments to our entire crew. Also, we are revving up for the next RetroActive feature, but we need your help identifying candidate games/themes! Post your ideas in the sticky forum thread, or just email us directly about this or anything else in the world of Nintendo. Finally, you can learn more about Jonny's recent book release (not at all related to video games) over here at Amazon. It's short and cheap/free!

[azeke]

"I don't want to memorize combos" is a widespread criticism that is often thrown at all these games (DMC, Bayo).

Lots of canned combos is not the problem and you don't need to memorize lots of them. I Pure Platinum'd Bayo 1 and in process of doing the same on 2.

You only need 3-4 combos to do that. Bayo 1 was meticulously designed to be accessible and satisfying on staggering breadth of skill levels depending on goals you set: whether it's just beating the game or going for the most insane highest goal you can get in the game: no items, no damage, Pure Platinum only.


On QTEs.

I am not going to defend insta-death QTEs in the first Bayonetta -- they're inexcusable. BUT, the notion that they come in a seconds notice with zero warning is wrong:

...in one of the annoying instant death QTEs you actually get a warning a full second in advance before QTE prompt even shows up in the form of a shrinking circle:



The colour of a circle is actually telling you which button exactly you need to hit.

These QTEs are deliberately set traps ("HAHA! **** YOU!") on your first playthrough where you don't know what you're doing. It is "fool me once, foll me twice" situation.

Also all QTEs in Wonderful 101 give you literally 20 seconds to react. The statement that they don't give you enough time to react was wrong a year ago and it's still wrong.

On Bayo 1 vs Bayo 2.

For high-level of play, first game is much, much, much more polished game, the big problem is that you won't be able to see these crazy aspects of polish until you force yourself through the rough tutorial that is first playthrough. But for majority of players, Bayo 2 is much more accessible, smoother and more immediately rewarding experience.

[Enner]

On Atelier: I'm pretty sure I was one of the Twitter followers that immediately replied to James's tweet. I go by @eribuster there 'cause I flip-flop between handles and @enner was already taken.


In regards to moe, I must confess that I have trouble defining it even though I am an enthusiast of anime and it's related subculture(s) and have watched series where moe is a selling point. The Japanese character for the slang term is a pun of "budding," as in a plant about to flower, as well as a homonym for burning. A point that is often missed is that moe is the feeling a person has for a character rather than an attribute a character has. How moe is different from more familiar terms such as turn-ons, fetish, or kitsch will take someone who has a better grasp on the subject and more time than I.


In my lack of coherent thought, James's blunt definition of moe meaning overbearing cuteness is more often correct than not.


On Bayonetta 1 & 2: To add to azeke, the different moves have different properties that are important to know. To my surprise, the move library in Bayonetta 1 does an okay job of giving you the broad strokes of Wicked Weaves, knockdowns, and so on. Memorizing button combos is a time-consuming thing to do, but I highly suggest at least knowing Bayonetta's launchers (attacks that launch an enemy in to the air) and one or two air combination strings to rack up the combo points.


Oh, and also maybe looking at the digital manual or in-game codex to know that dodge offset is a thing that exists. That will make it easier to continue a combo chain.


On the segment about Shantae and the Pirate's Curse and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker: The disappointment/disengagement Guillaume feels is something that I feel a lot of when I play some Nintendo games. When playing Mario Kart 8 and The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds, I feel that there is a rule book that the developers and I read and have been reading for years and we are now putting it in to practical use. It feels mostly like exercise, with what little twists or surprises there are still strongly adhering to the rule book. It's fun, but there is nothing truly surprising, dangerous, or new.


The flip side to this is that Metroid: Other M's focus on its narrative was certainly surprising, dangerous, and new. And that didn't turn out well at all.


It is a conundrum that all Nintendo's games face and I don't envy them for it.

[azeke]

Memorizing button combos is a time-consuming thing to do, but I highly suggest at least knowing Bayonetta's launchers (attacks that launch an enemy in to the air) and one or two air combination strings to rack up the combo points.

Launchers are certainly very useful, because they help you to isolate one enemy and make him helplessly float in the air as you keep hitting him in relative safety.

It is a tool to reduce chaos of the battle to reasonable, controllable, safe levels.

But launchers and air game lead to DMC3/4 style "combos" where player use special designated tricks to keep himself in the air indefinitely as you keep juggling helpless enemies which shifts the game from normal "natural" battle to "mad combo" style videos.

Bayonetta 1 (and 2 -- even more so) prevent that, and enemy AI and their properties are specifically designed to stop endless juggle. Number of enemies are completely unjuggleable (if you launch Grace or Glory for example it flies up faster than you can reach it).

If you want to isolate and/or incapacitate enemies -- use roundhouse sweeps. You can drop multiple enemies, giving you more breathing room to either deal with other enemies or to finish ones on the ground.

[ClexYoshi]

It makes me kinda sad that you're having the FF6 discussion right now because I'm still thinking about that tease I got from the 2013 telethon.

I had this really great forum post lined up for that retroactive where I was going to play a romhacked version of the game that doesn't change the gameplay or the story that much but shuffles around the characters, and it was going to be a hollar and a hoot and some high level trolling that I would have loved while also giving out the kind of volume of information I had prepared for Mega Man 3.

And then F-Zero GX... funny how I've come to own that game now. still don't have as much to say about that one. oh well!

I do wonder when we'll get another Retroactive.

[Soren]

Azeke didn't add it on his quoted post, but did mention the lack of colors on the face buttons, which puts the Wii U version at a disadvantage when it comes to QTEs.


They're terrible and annoying and deserved to die a horrible death.

[Jonnyboy117]

As noted in the outro, we want to do a new RetroActive very very soon. Please send in your ideas or use that dedicated forum thread!

[pPatko]

The NES top-loader is a collector's item, no doubt, but it actually has worse video/audio output quality than the original box.  To cut costs, Nintendo made it RF output only.  No composite RCA output.  It looks pretty bad, especially on a flat-screen. (Do modern flat-screens even have a coax input anymore?)  BUT! if you can get your hands on those "dog-bone" style controllers the top-loaders came with, they are MUCH more comfortable than those old palm-stabbers!

[ejamer]

The NES top-loader is a collector's item, no doubt, but it actually has worse video/audio output quality than the original box.  To cut costs, Nintendo made it RF output only.  No composite RCA output.  It looks pretty bad, especially on a flat-screen. (Do modern flat-screens even have a coax input anymore?)  BUT! if you can get your hands on those "dog-bone" style controllers the top-loaders came with, they are MUCH more comfortable than those old palm-stabbers!

Ah, never knew that the old NES top loaders only offered coax output. Weirdly reminiscent of the Wii Mini console where they also downgraded video output options.

[Ceric]

...
(Do modern flat-screens even have a coax input anymore?)

Yes, that's how you get the best picture for TV since Antenna seems to be the only one really doing HD.

BUT! if you can get your hands on those "dog-bone" style controllers the top-loaders came with, they are MUCH more comfortable than those old palm-stabbers!

You my friend would love an NES Max controller.

[GameBoyGoul]

I need to play one of them Atelier games now. Can you start with any, or is it best to start with the latest release? 

[Crimm]

Fans of the series told me this one was a great starting point. There is a DS game, Atelier Annie: Alchemist of Sera Island, but it does a lot less. In today's Japanese Nintendo Direct they announced a 3DS version of the PS3/Vita game Arelier Rorona. It's on that incredibly moe set and it looks like they super-deformed the game, taking things to a whole new level.