Topic: Project Cafe & Pre-E3 HYPE Thread

[Chozo Ghost]

I agree with Ian. Being able to swing the wiimote and that causing Link to swing his sword was cool for about 20 minutes, but after spending 40+ hours playing the game whatever fun there was in doing that had long dried up. I never want to play a Zelda game like that again.... if I want to swing a sword for real I would take up fencing or kendo or something.

I am extremely relieved that the rumors are saying the Cafe controller is going to have a similar layout to the GC controller. Since that will be the default controller that means waggle on the Cafe will be a thing of the past. There may be some puzzle mini games in Zelda that require the use of the touch screen thing, but as long as that's just to solve some puzzles and not something you have to do all the time I'm okay with that.

[Stogi]

Ugh...Nintendo fans. So finicky.

Not to sound misogynistic, but you guys are worse than girls. I am pretty sure none of you know what you want.

Even before the Wii came out, all we wanted was a Zelda game where we have 1:1 control. Now we are about to get it, so you don't want it anymore? Even after 5 years?

I get it, you aren't girls, you're children. You only wanted it because you couldn't have it.

[NWR_insanolord]

Not to sound misogynistic, but you guys are worse than girls.

This is one of my favorite quotes I've ever read on these forums.

[Chozo Ghost]

you guys are worse than girls.

Some of us ARE girls. Not me, but some on here are I'm sure.

I'll admit back before the Wii came out I was excited about motion controls, but after a couple years I got sick of it. Back then it was something new and innovative, but now I know how it works... there's nothing new or interesting about it to me anymore. 1:1 controls is something Twilight Princess didn't have and that may be fun for awhile, but like I said it just gets old after 40-50 hours of gameplay. When people first played the Wii they actually got out of their chairs and swang their controllers like real weapons, but soon enough they realized they can just flick their wrists from a sitting position and achieve the same results. The bottom line is the enthusiasm is gone... it may not be gone for everyone, but it certainly is gone for me.

[NWR_insanolord]

But you won't be able to just flick your wrist for Skyward Sword. It uses Motion+ for real motion control, not waggle, and you actually have to use full motions for it to work.

[Stogi]

Not to sound misogynistic, but you guys are worse than girls.

This is one of my favorite quotes I've ever read on these forums.

Like what I did there

Some of us ARE girls. Not me, but some on here are I'm sure.

I was talking to you and Ian directly.

[Ian Sane]

Even before the Wii came out, all we wanted was a Zelda game where we have 1:1 control. Now we are about to get it, so you don't want it anymore? Even after 5 years?

Hey I hated motion control before it was cool!
 
Seriously though it took like five seconds after the Wii was announced for me to realize that playing an entire game the size of Zelda while swinging your arm would get tiring and the novelty would wear off.  Usually when Nintendo introduces an unorthodox idea the question is "can they make this work?"  Usually they do.
 
But we've had almost five years now of the Wii.  My hope was that in time Nintendo would really show the world how to do motion control right.  They never did.  It's the same lame gimmicky half-baked joke it was when the Wii launched.  That "next level" that the later Wii games were going to reach never came.  The future became Nintendo using the remote like an NES controller and mapping a button press to a shake to make up for the lack of buttons.  So is Nintendo going to suddenly figure this **** out now?  After years of nearly every Wii game having slightly wonky controls Nintendo is going to hit it out of the park with this one?
 
**** motion control.  I want that **** gone for good.  May it be remembered as a lame fad and be the butt of jokes 10 years from now.
 
I assume Nintendo will keep it around.  I actually think it would be silly not to.  But I think it will work best as a peripheral.  It was a stupid choice for a "standard" but is not a bad idea as a novelty controller for a handful of games.
 
 

[Chozo Ghost]

But you won't be able to just flick your wrist for Skyward Sword. It uses Motion+ for real motion control, not waggle, and you actually have to use full motions for it to work.

I played Red Steel 2 with M+ by basically just flicking my wrist and it worked fine. I don't see how Zelda would be any different than that. The mistake beginners tend to make when using the Wii is they think powerful or lengthy swings will register as such in the game, but really it doesn't matter. You can just do a slow shallow motion with your wrist and it has the exact same effect, as well as the added benefit of not really needing to use the ridiculous wrist strap. I don't feel like its necessary to use the wrist strap unless you play motion games standing up and swinging violently like a Wiitard.

But that goes back to my original point... since you can play the games sitting down and doing shallow wrist movements then what's the point of having motion controls at all? I don't feel like I'm immersed in the game while I'm sitting down flicking my wrist so I might as well just be doing button presses instead.

[Ian Sane]

One idea that pretty much everyone is in love with is the Holodeck.  Would I want to play a virtual reality Zelda game?  **** yeah!  But thinking about it there is a limitation there that also affects motion control.

In videogames you fight a lot of enemies, like a whole army's worth, by yourself.  No one could ever do that.  The amount of sword fighting Link does in an average Zelda game is so huge, the guy would have to be a god to not die out of sheer exhaustion.  If you put that amount of fighting in a movie people would laugh at how ridiculously over the top it is.  This would effect motion control or any real form of virtual reality.

In real life any fight with enemies would be notable.  A day in your adventure where you have to sword fight two guys at once would be a high point, instead of routine.  To truly have motion control sword fighting work well, each fight would have to be a big deal and after winning the player would not encounter another enemy for at least a good hour of playtime.  The way to make it work is for sword fights to be rare, memorable, challenging and rewarding.  And they have to have an incredible amount of precision so that you HAVE to do big swings and your actions do something.  As Chozo mentioned if you're just flicking your wrist what is the point?  Why is that fun?  Where is the appeal in "shaking" instead of a button press?

This design I propose would have to result in a major change in the mechanics of how Zelda works.  The idea requires a de-emphasis on enemy encounters so more of the game has to be taken up by puzzles and exploration.  Do Zelda fans want that?  It would better fit a new IP while Zelda sticks to using buttons, while offering waggle for those that want it.

[NWR_insanolord]

But in Skyward Sword you're not just flicking your wrist! The game is designed for full motion control. The direction of your swing matters, and specific techniques are required to defeat certain enemies. This isn't waggle, this is the motion control we all imagined when the system was first announced. First-hand impressions from E3 last year were very positive. Give it a goddamned chance before you write it off as bad.

[Stogi]

It's gone now.

I was sad too.

Don't be sad. Be Gay.... Hard Gay 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqHsfht-wR8

and the uncensored trailer for the game here: [Rated M for Mature - Lots of blood and violence]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CsF_7rbMbc

Daayuum!

[SixthAngel]

Skyward Sword is going to be much better because of the motion controls and I'll be there to drink your delicious tears (of happiness for it being so awesome).

Motion+ has been so underused that saying you are tired of it is ridiculous.  I can count three swordfighting games on the Wii: Resort, Red Steel 2, and Zangeki.  Each handles the sword fighting in an entirely different way, one is a minigame and I think I'm the only one on the forums who has even played the last one

Even before the Wii came out, all we wanted was a Zelda game where we have 1:1 control. Now we are about to get it, so you don't want it anymore? Even after 5 years?

This makes me want to post that Miyamoto picture where he bitches about Zelda fans always hating the current game.

[cubist]

I'm all for Motion + controls for Skyward Sword simply because Nintendo needs to put their money where their collective mouth is and deliver a game that controls like what they've been preaching for the past 2 E3s.   

Ugh...Nintendo fans. So finicky.

Not to sound misogynistic, but you guys are worse than girls. I am pretty sure none of you know what you want.

Even before the Wii came out, all we wanted was a Zelda game where we have 1:1 control. Now we are about to get it, so you don't want it anymore? Even after 5 years?

I get it, you aren't girls, you're children. You only wanted it because you couldn't have it.

Hell yeah we're a "finicky bunch".  Everyone on these forums acts like they sit on the Nintendo Board of Directors, but the truth is Nintendo would be broke with a "finicky" bunch like us running $#!+.  That's why we're almost always unhappy and the real Nintendo Board of Directors continues to make money. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Even before the Wii came out, all we wanted was a Zelda game where we have 1:1 control. Now we are about to get it, so you don't want it anymore? Even after 5 years?

This makes me want to post that Miyamoto picture where he bitches about Zelda fans always hating the current game.

[broodwars]

I have concerns about the fatigue factor with Skyward Sword as well (Twilight Princess really did a number on my wrist back when I first got my Wii), but the real issue with that game is and always will be whether Nintendo has actually designed this game with a fresh approach for the series.  Zelda is my favorite Nintendo franchise, but good God I'm sick of the same Zelda formula Nintendo's been using since Ocarina of Time (and to some extent Link to the Past).  1:1 motion control has definite possibilities (though I suspect Nintendo won't have any real dueling in the game more advanced than the slap-fest that was Wii Sport Resort's sword-fighting mode), but it doesn't address the real problem of the series' stagnation.

[Dasmos]

I don't have concerns about fatigue factor with Skyward Sword, my wrists are really strong for some reason.

[Chozo Ghost]

But in Skyward Sword you're not just flicking your wrist! The game is designed for full motion control. The direction of your swing matters, and specific techniques are required to defeat certain enemies. This isn't waggle, this is the motion control we all imagined when the system was first announced. First-hand impressions from E3 last year were very positive. Give it a goddamned chance before you write it off as bad.

I didn't play Zelda at E3 last year, but like I said I did play Red Steel 2 and that game was also supposed to have 1:1 control. So I am familiar with how M+ works with a sword fighting game.... It is true the direction of the swing matters, but you can do all of that with simple wrist movements. In order to swing your sword down just flick your wrist down. You don't need to move your entire arm to do it. Really, the only thing that needs to move is the wiimote itself and for that all you need is to move your wrist.

Red Steel 2 with M+ was a bit more than mere waggle because the direction of swings really did matter, but like I said its nothing that you have to get off the chair and move your whole arms to do. You can sit in a chair and rest your arms on the arm rest and then just flick the control in whichever direction you want the sword to swing and it will work just fine.

But like I said, if I'm doing that I may as well just be pressing buttons because moving my fingers takes even less effort than moving my wrist even though the results are the same.

[Stogi]

You can be lazy if you want. I've been looking forward to this.

I'd play it standing up the entire time if I have to. I'd play it on a broken 13" TV with magnets fucking up the picture. Hell, I'd even play it decked out in cosplay riding a wooden horse if I had to.

[Ceric]

You can be lazy if you want. I've been looking forward to this.

I'd play it standing up the entire time if I have to. I'd play it on a broken 13" TV with magnets fucking up the picture. Hell, I'd even play it decked out in cosplay riding a wooden horse if I had to.

Pics when you do.  You'll have plenty of time.  I mean Zelda: Forev...Skyward Sword still has a Good 10 years if its going by its spiritual brother game time table.

[BlackNMild2k1]

7 Days Remaining

7 days, 0 hrs, 0 minutes, 0 seconds
Till Nintendo's E3 2011 Conference

[Ian Sane]

The finicky nature of Zelda fans is a fallacy based on the incorrect assumption that it is the same people complaining each time.  What has really happened is that since Wind Waker Nintendo has not made a Zelda game that doesn't have some aspect of it that is controversial so someone is going to complain but it won't necessarily be the same people.

I actually was not too pleased with either game (though they are still great games - just not great by high Zelda standards) but I didn't like Wind Waker that much and then Twilight Princess was a major overreaction to it.  If Wind Waker was way on the left, Twilight Princess was way on the right.  I'm in the middle and want my Zelda to be around there.  Nintendo did two extremes and then got all pissy when they got complaints about both.  When I said I didn't like WW's graphics style or how the world was a big blue ocean of nothing that did not mean doing OoT pastiche was what I wanted.  Hey how about a creative Zelda game that just doesn't happen to have Looney Tunes graphics and takes place on land?  I didn't just describe an OoT rehash.

It's the common misinterpretation that rejection to a change means rejection to ALL change and the common mistake is to then play it safe and conservative and get backlash for being too conservative.  And then it's all "well they don't know what they want."  No, YOU don't know what they want because you misinterpretted what they didn't like in the first place.  It isn't black and white.  The target is some shade of grey.

[ShyGuy]

Some targets aren't worth hitting.

[Dasmos]

I'm glad Nintendo doesn't make Zelda games for Ian.

[Chozo Ghost]

I'm glad Nintendo doesn't make Zelda games for Ian.

What if Nintendo made Zelda games for Kytime89?

[Shaymin]

I'd kill myself.