Author Topic: Nintendo is No#1...  (Read 19986 times)

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Offline Nile Boogie

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Nintendo is No#1...
« on: February 10, 2003, 09:04:38 PM »
in graphics.

When the GameCube was first released, everybody assumed that in terms of graphical power, the GameCube was 2nd on the list, XboX being 1st and PS2 coming in at 3rd.  Slowly but surely everyone started to belive this without question. Well I'm here to question this as fact or fiction? Yes I think we all can agree that all 3 systems can put out some very stunning graphics but is it a fact that the way they are ranked is correct? In terms of specs, yes the XboX has better specs than either system. But specs are just numbers and fractions(and who in thier right ming likes fractions). Lets look at what is "generally" consider the top 4 games for each system.

3 released titles, 1 future release

XBOX
Halo
Dead or Alive: XBV
Splinter Cell
--Ninja Gaiden--


GameCube
Starwars Rouge Squadron
Metriod Prime
Star Fox Adventures
--Zelda: The Wind Waker--


PS2
Metal Gear Soild2: Sons of Liberty
Rachect & Clank
Virtua Fighter 4
--Final FantasyX2--

All these games look great, but when it comes down to pure graphic force, I belive the best  looking game in it's highest form(I own all 3 systems with high end hookup's and a HDTV) is STAR FOX ADVENTURS!!  I'm not trying to be bias (and forgive me if I forgot a game for for list) but the way I see it GameCube is a superior system in terms of graphics, RIGHT NOW!*  I'll be the first to tell you that Ninja Gaiden for the XboX is a sight to behold indeed.  And you better belive the PS2 has one or two more tricks up it's sleeve, but if it goes the way I see it, Nintendo's No# 1!*


*I'll belive DOOM3 ont the XBOX when I see it!

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Offline nolimit19

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2003, 09:07:51 PM »
resident evil 4
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Offline Game_Freak

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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2003, 10:30:23 PM »
I totally agree about Starfox Adventures, that game looks INCREDIBLE! It's damn breathtaking, i love when its raining in thortail hollow, that is the best thing i have ever seen in a videogame, SFA is the best looking game on any system. I think Wind Waker will have better graphics, but it hasnt been released yet. And also, Wave Race: Blue Storm has really awesome graphics, gotta love those water effects.

Offline Fammy2000

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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2003, 01:25:00 AM »
A good measure may be Rare's first Xbox game. Compare that against Star Fox. Maybe they'll make a PS2 game so we can comapre that sysytem too!
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Offline mouse_clicker

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2003, 02:31:13 AM »
Rare's owned by Microsoft now- there'd have to be another switching of hands to Sony before a Rare game shows up on the PS2.
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Offline KrazyJ1098

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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2003, 03:49:36 AM »
yes star fox adventures is a very pretty game to look at, i still have to say that metroid prime beat it out in just about every way possible with the exception of bump mapping. granted, fox's fur effects look very nice. now as for the topic of this discussion. i'd have to say that the xbox and gamecube are in a literal tie for the best graphics in games. have you seen splinter cell in action? now that has some amazing effects. but i do believe that resident evil 4 is going to beat it out and everything else out in every way possible. just look at the screen shots of it. those shots are breathtaking. but when i look at ps2, yes some of the stuff looks like crap compared to the other two, but the lord of the rings: the two towers looks extremely amazing on that system. that is the best looking ps2 game i've seen come out.  
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Offline Fammy2000

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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2003, 05:38:24 AM »
mouse_clicker: sorry, I didn't turn my sarcasm switch on. I think (almost) everyone knows Rare won't be doing anything but Microsoft for a long while. (Speaking of which, I wonder if there is any chance a Rare game could go PC? I highly doubt it since no exclusive XBox games have really gone to PC. And I don't want to hear about Halo. It was PC first).
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Offline Hemmorrhoid

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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2003, 05:57:31 AM »
I agree RE4 is the best looking of future games ive seen on any system. Although Halo 2 does look incredible too.

Im sure that in any which way GCN and Xbox are on par, i mean, Nintendo internally might not be pumping out all the GCN can do but Capcom and Factor 5 sure do justice to what the GCN can do. Same goes for SK if they actually make TOo Human look as good as they promise it to be.
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Offline RickPowers

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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2003, 06:08:06 AM »
It's pretty much a well-known fact that the Xbox has more RAW graphical power than GameCube does.  However, due to some of the Xbox's bottlenecks in it's architecture, the GameCube ends up VERY close.  GameCube was designed in such a way as to eliminate as many of the bottlenecks as they could, and end up with a system where every part was necessary and exactly what was needed.  Xbox was designed by throwing parts as fast as they could get into a box, and seeing how much power they would end up with.  It's PC based, and the PC is unfortunately a very inefficient design.

Don't get me wrong, the Xbox has a lot of potential, and there's nothing really inherently bad about the box as it stands.  But you just have to marvel at how much Nintendo accomplished with so little.
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Offline Christberg

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2003, 07:44:09 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
It's pretty much a well-known fact that the Xbox has more RAW graphical power than GameCube does.  However, due to some of the Xbox's bottlenecks in it's architecture, the GameCube ends up VERY close.  GameCube was designed in such a way as to eliminate as many of the bottlenecks as they could, and end up with a system where every part was necessary and exactly what was needed.  Xbox was designed by throwing parts as fast as they could get into a box, and seeing how much power they would end up with.  It's PC based, and the PC is unfortunately a very inefficient design.

Don't get me wrong, the Xbox has a lot of potential, and there's nothing really inherently bad about the box as it stands.  But you just have to marvel at how much Nintendo accomplished with so little.



The bottlenecks in the Xbox architecture really are a big issue, but the memory amount in it is what really makes it take off compared to the GC.  The Xbox, in fact, has considerably more raw power, but when you get down to it the fastest it's ever going to read anything through the northbridge is at 5.3 GB/sec whereas the GC can access 4mb of it's onchip graphics cache at 12GB/sec.  Hypertransport is a neat technology that hasn't even made it into PCs yet, but it's not THAT neat.

Still, you have 64mb of RAM in the Xbox and that's a pretty huge difference over the 24mb of graphics memory and 16mb of standard memory that are in the GC.  When you're talking bang for your dollar (not that it matters too much as a consumer though because MS is absorbing the cost difference) the GC really does come out ahead though.

The texture resolution on Xbox titles is just higher and it shows a lot of the time when you get down to it, with Quantum Redshift (despite being a mediocre game) and Rallisport Challenge being very good examples of this.  However, the new generation of tech heavy GC titles like Metroid Prime really do show how outputting a larger number of smaller textures can really make up for that.  Hell, anybody who owns both Metroid Prime and Halo knows that Metroid Prime looks better, but is that really a fair comparison?  Not really.

Just imagine the horsepower Nintendo could have if they used a tile based renderer.  Eek.

Offline Hemmorrhoid

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2003, 08:14:38 AM »
Now that leads us to the old discussion about the possible Ram Upgrade in the GCN.
I really dont care how the GCN achieves its terrific graphics result when we in fact ultimately look at graphics that are just
as good as the Xboxs.

With Nintendos genius in development just think how powerful the GCN sucessor will be, do you think it will be the strongest of them all next round?
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Offline Christberg

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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2003, 08:37:14 AM »
The RAM upgrade won't happen with the GCN.  The Hispeed port on the bottom of the unit doesn't run anywhere near fast enough.  It's only 12 mb/sec.

Offline Hemmorrhoid

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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2003, 08:41:03 AM »
YOu sure? I heard some different stuff, but im not really counting on it either. It would be too much of an effort spreading the upgrade amongst the userbase plus the GCN sucessor is 2 and something years away
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Offline Christberg

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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2003, 08:47:54 AM »
Yes, I'm positive.  The Hispeed port runs at 12 MB/sec, fast enough that if they wanted a HD upgrade they could do that,, but nowhere near fast enough for a RAM upgrade.  That port will be used for the GBA player anyway where it will be more useful.  The GC is powerful enough as it is.

Offline The Omen

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2003, 09:00:47 AM »
  Its too close to call.  But Metroid is a beautiful game.  
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Offline Grey Ninja

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2003, 09:06:01 AM »
*sigh*.  Give it up.  I have been saying this stuff for well over a year now.  The problem is that people read the specs as being:  Higher numbers = more powerful.  Being that I am a recognized Nintendo fan, as most of us here are, nobody pays attention to us.  Yes we all know that the GameCube stands eye to eye with the Xbox in terms of graphics, but the problem is the same as the "kiddie" argument against GameCube.  There's just no way to fight myths that are so far ingrained in people's skulls.  It's really sad.
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Offline Nile Boogie

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2003, 09:49:35 AM »
I geuss you can relate this matter to sports cars.  The Dodge Viper Svt has a bigger engine(V10) than the Porshe 911 Super TurboII(V6). Yet, each car when tested, performs similarly.  While the Viper(XboX) has a slightly higher top speed than the 911(GameCube), the Porshe handles better and is quicker out of the blocks.  


Back to the graphics... It's too early for me to judge RE4 as the best looking thing to come until I get my hands on Tecmo's Ninja Gadien(Xbox).  And if Sega can really pull off VF4: Evolution, with NO JAGGIES ON THE PS2, then indeed the graphics race is far from over.

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Offline Hemmorrhoid

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2003, 09:58:06 AM »
Well specs dont matter to me, and the PC wins that race all the time anyway.
Fact is, whatever looks better to the human eye, and not what pushes more polygons is the better graphics.
Especially with techniques like bumpmapping applied.

And on another note, while we might still call it a race this time round, by the time the new generations of consoles comes the human eye wont be able to differenciate between the systems anymore. Its already hard enough this time.

Remember the difference between N64 and PSX? Then N64 to Dreamcast (that was a big leap though) and DC to PS2 etc its getting smaller up to nonexistent especially with GCN vs Xbox.

Now it comes down to the real deal, gameplay and developer skills.
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Offline Kuchakor

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2003, 10:05:33 AM »
After hearing about Rare I just reliazed something.
Maybe I'm wrong about SNES and Genesis but....
SNES had better graphics than Genesis-- Rare on SNES
N64 (definately) had better graphics than PS-- Rare on N64
XBOX has better graphics (supposedly) than GCN and PS2-- Rare on Xbox

And Rare definately had the best graphics on the games they produced for every system.
Now, what will they be able to do the XBOX

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Offline Rancid Planet

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2003, 10:15:39 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kuchakor
After hearing about Rare I just reliazed something.
Maybe I'm wrong about SNES and Genesis but....
SNES had better graphics than Genesis-- Rare on SNES
N64 (definately) had better graphics than PS-- Rare on N64
XBOX has better graphics (supposedly) than GCN and PS2-- Rare on Xbox

And Rare definately had the best graphics on the games they produced for every system.
Now, what will they be able to do the XBOX

Graphic Whores




Interesting. I'm not sure if I buy it, but that's a good theory and an interesting point.  

Offline JoeSmashBro

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Nintendo is No#1...
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2003, 10:55:47 AM »
Quote

After hearing about Rare I just reliazed something.
Maybe I'm wrong about SNES and Genesis but....
SNES had better graphics than Genesis-- Rare on SNES
N64 (definately) had better graphics than PS-- Rare on N64
XBOX has better graphics (supposedly) than GCN and PS2-- Rare on Xbox

And Rare definately had the best graphics on the games they produced for every system.
Now, what will they be able to do the XBOX

Graphic Whores


Eh............. subtract all Rare games from the Nintendo systems and Nintendo still had significantly better graphics on SNES and N64.
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Offline Clonester

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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2003, 11:04:00 AM »
I'm sure that the nice graphics from Rare is one of the biggest reasons why Rare takes so much time to develop many of their games.
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Offline ThePerm

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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2003, 11:08:03 AM »
i dont know the super nintendo battletaods sucked.....i much prefer the nes ones.
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2003, 12:16:28 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ThePerm
i dont know the super nintendo battletaods sucked.....i much prefer the nes ones.


Yeah, Rare were being lazy whores when developing that game. They tried to call it a new game when it featured nearly every level from the original on NES and Mega Drive.
*Shakes fist at that stupid speeder bike level*

Anyway, the whole graphics thing....
Graphics all depend on the developer and how good they are. Huge specs are nice throw around in terms of advertising and such, but when a developer churns out rubbish, it doesn't matter.
Star Fox Adventures is a visually stunning game because unlike many other companies, Rare spent a good amount of time getting used to the limitations/abilities of the GC's GPU...


Offline JoeSmashBro

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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2003, 01:06:27 PM »
Quote

Star Fox Adventures is a visually stunning game because unlike many other companies, Rare spent a good amount of time getting used to the limitations/abilities of the GC's GPU...


and was it worth it??? ...no.......
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