Topic: The State of TV: Fantasy Edition

[MaryJane]

Okay, so let me start by quantifying the fantasy genre. In the strictest sense of the term, Sci-Fi could be included in this genre, but I also feel that it's such a large sub-genre that it warrants it's own thread. In a way, the vampire genre should warrant it's own thread, but that has only recently become large enough, so it will be in here unless others disagree.


So for the purposes of this thread fantasy includes; vampires, magic, superheroes, mystical weapons, zombies/ghosts/etc. and delusional characters who imagine the world to be something it isn't.


Magic shows I watch(ed) and can remember: Merlin, Charmed, Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Hercules, Xena: Warrior Princess, Fantasy Island, Carnivale, and The Beastmaster^.


Vampires: True Blood^, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Blade: The Series


Mystical Weapons: Witchblade (not the anime, that'll probably be the next thread), and Legend of the Seeker^


Superheroes: The Incredible Hulk, Spider-man, Batman, Wonder Woman, Lois and Clark, (all of those are old live-action shows, superhero cartoons will/should be in with anime), Smallville^, Heroes, No Ordinary Family, and Power Rangers.


Zombies/etc.: Tales from the Crypt, Are You Afraid of the Dark, and Walking Dead^


^ - stopped watching before it's conclusion.


Fantasy is another dying genre, and I wonder if it is again because of the state of society. When was the last time a major network produced a fantasy series? Even Vampire Diaries, despite its popularity, is on the lowly CW in these parts, and no other network has introduced its own series.


They keep trying with superheroes because of the popularity of the movies, but even these fail. Heroes was freaking great, and then they ruined it. Legend of the Seeker somehow managed to stay right on the edge of potential without ever, not even momentarily, crossing that line, and managed three seasons, while Carnivale was an amazing show that got canceled after two seasons. I like Smallville, but  for whatever reason, I just can't get into it enough to bother watching it regularly, and since I don't watch it regularly I find no reason to watch it sporadically.


Charmed was okay, but I was much more drawn in by the women than the storylines. Buffy was cool too, but I thought Angel ruined it, and for that I didn't watch the spin-off, and Hercules and Xena were also good, but pushed too far in their later seasons to try and boost ratings; like once the producers realized that Xena was popular among lesbians, and lesbians were popular among men, they pushed hard on the lesbian thing, which as a man I enjoyed, but detracted from the show.


So what's the point of all this besides the opportunity to discuss our favorite fantasy shows? It's because I wonder if there can be a good long running fantasy show. Merlin is pretty good so far, but I'm almost waiting for them to screw that up, and they've come close a few times. As someone mentioned in the Sci-Fi thread, True Blood is a guilty pleasure (which is a shame because the books are fantastic even if they didn't have sex in them, and they have way less than the shows), and was Charmed, and Xena. The witch shows always used the family atmosphere/comedy backdrop to pull the show along, and other shows use other things, like exotic locales, tame fantasies, and (what I assume are) attractive men.


Do fantasy stories not have the strength to stand on their own?

[Morari]

I've never too much into fantasy as a genre, let alone on television. It rarely seems grounded, and almost always strikes me as cliche.

That said, I recall liking the Buffy television series when it first came out. It began taking itself way too seriously somewhere alone the line though, and I gave up on it. Of course, it was part of that larger girl-power movement of the time. You had stuff like Xena and Charmed running as well, all promoting powerful women with supernatural powers. At least Xena had Bruce Campbell pop up on occasion.

You throw Tales from the Crypt out there, but I don't think that it should count. Sure, horror can be just as much of a sub-genre of fantasy as sci-fi is... but again, it's large enough that it probably warrants its own discourse. Then again, Tales from the Crypt had a lot of humor injected into it as well. It still followed the same horror/suspense structure of The Twilight Zone. For me, that's good television. Sadly, you see even less of its kind than you do traditional fantasy and sci-fi combined. When you do, you often get mixed bags, like Masters of Horror.

[ThePerm]

tv genres are a lot looser defined. Like horror/scifi/fantasy have their lines blurred.

[broodwars]

I consider Warehouse 13 to be a fantasy series (it's much more that than a Sci-Fi series), and it's a pretty decent show overall with some goofy acting that's grown on me.  Pity "Siffy" hasn't seen fit to give it a spectacular episode count for its first 2 seasons.

[ThePerm]

theres some fantasy shows showing up on premium networks. Camelot premiered, and next is coming Game of Thrones. Although im not sure if those 100% qualify as fantasy. Im not sure if its just period fiction or if there is a fantastical element. Though they aren't exactly based in the real world so they can't quite be called proper period shows.

[BlackNMild2k1]

No mention of Supernatural?
It's title is it's whole genre and no show on television does what Supernatural does as good as it does it.


Other shows worth mention:
Being Human - (Vampire/Werewolf/Ghost)
- It starts off sounding like a joke, "So a Werewolf and a Vampire move into a house Haunted by a Ghost...." but it's actually pretty good.
Misfits - (Super Powers)
- Juvenile Delinquents are struck by lightning that gives them super powers. Now they have to figure out what to do with them while finishing work detail. Lots of humorous moments.


And yes True Blood is a guilty pleasure as is Smallville, but even though True Blood hasn't been that good at times, it has yet to hit the lows of Smallville (s5-7). Small has made a MIRACULOUS recovery though and looks to finish as strong if not stronger than it started.


True Blood starts again Tues day April 5th, so they have time to turn things around (although I think it may be too late depending on where they take the Sookie family tree storyline).


My biggest let down this year though was No Ordinary Family. What a waste of an opportunity that show was. I wanted to like it regardless of how many times they thought I was a complete and total idiot and would think that anyone in their situation would ever do half the thing they were doing. It was like no one on that show had a spec of common sense and thought that no one watching would have any either. They had every chance in the world to succeed where Heroes failed and they decided that it wasn't even worth trying for and decided to play for lower than the lowest common denominator.

[MaryJane]

I threw horror in there because I didn't feel it was big enough for its own thread. Beyond Anime/cartoons, I only have one other mystery genre...

I watched Camelot a couple of hours ago and it was pretty good. I've read a lot of different King Arthur mythology, and I kind of like what they're doing with this one. Then there's the fact that Morgana has a great pair of tits despite being a little strange looking. I don't really like who they picked to play Arthur as they went with the somewhat-feminine, pretty-boy, soft-hearted character, rather than a rugged, kingly, soft-hearted character. I like the actor they picked to play Merlin (the guy from Flashforward), but I don't like how young he is. He is actually old, but they have him being ageless in appearance, and I don't much like the appearance they gave him, but Joseph Fiennes is good enough to forgive that. I like the actress they picked for Morgana (even without her meat pies), dislike the one they picked for Guinevere because she's somewhat pretty and I don't require bombshells, but she's modern pretty, there's no classic appeal to her, it's like they picked her out of a mall. Overall, the story seems good and as long as they don't **** with the lore they've already started with this episode, the rest of the series should be good as well.

And I agree with BnM, but I think that suffered from the same fate as Heroes; it just got too big for its britches. They should have kept it simple with just the family. Have the wife's boss just being suspicious and maybe eventually discovering what she was doing, and a few villains here and there who got there powers from the same place as the family, and each person led them closer to discovering the source and closing it, and then either keeping or ridding themselves of their powers for the series finale. At least that's what I would have done. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think the over arching plot and scope of NOF was fine, it was just how the dad would be worried about his identity getting out and then he would go jumping around town in broad daylight without so much as a mask. The wife is a Lab Genius and she is zipping around a Highly Secured Corporate location riddled with cameras and somehow no one has noticed her. The daughter can read thoughts and yet she can't tell when someone means her harm or is just using her for her powers. The Son is a Mathematical and Technical Genius and he probably couldn't think his way out of a wet paper bag.

Those are only a few problems with the way the show developed, but the entire thing is filled with moments of utter stupidity and forehead slapping moments. The only person on the show that weren't complete idiots were George, the Bad Bosses and a few of the bad guys. They wrote the story as if everyone watching was too stupid to know they were being called stupid. I watched every episode for some reason, but I realized all of it's problem very early on and kept hoping it would get better. I really wanted to like that show (and I would watch every episode they aired),  but they wouldn't let me (& I would continue to **** all over it every chance I get).


Camelot is a series I will probably check out sometime after the 1st season is over.

[NWR_insanolord]

Since you threw The Walking Dead into this category, I'll just say that I think it's one of the best shows on TV right now, and can't wait until it comes back in October.

[oohhboy]

I would like to elaborate on some the character flaws in NOF, in particular the son and daughter.

The daughter for all her power, is emotionally as shallow as a puddle. She hears peoples inner thoughts, but never listens. *Gives away a couple grand in poker money to a security guard when a fraction of that would have been enough had she negotiated*. She uses her powers for the most shallow purposes like chasing boyfriends and still get it wrong. Perpetually blackmails her brother for increasingly selfish reasons that have little gain for her.

The son on the other hand is worse. World's most powerful brain and gets blackmailed by his sister for some of the worst terms ever, all homework till college for some poker money?. Wastes his artificial intellect on homework. He easily has the most powerful power of all of them. With his mind he could with time replicate or remove everyone's powers. He could invent commercially viable fusion, faster then light travel, clinical immortality, invent anything he puts his mind to near effortlessly on his part. He could advance civilization a hundred years technologically in a year. World peace and what does he do? his sister's homework. An absolute dearth of creativity and retarded to boot.

In comparison, the father and mother are pretty good, if still idiotic.

Maybe it was a budget thing, but even with the horrible flaws, it still better than Heroes because NOF does one thing Heroes couldn't, wouldn't, should have done. Show you the fights. Heroes had two demi gods fight and all you see is some lights under the door. A massive Samurai fight alluded to all fucking season, nothing. Season 1 had absolutely no payoff and this was the good season. Never mind the following multiple seasons worth of garbage.

[ShyGuy]

Is that The Vampire Diaries show any good?

[BranDonk Kong]

No it's not. I've never seen it, but I can tell you right now it's a steaming pile of ****. I watched the first Twilight movie with my wife, and it was easily in the top 5 worst movies I've ever seen, and I've seen some shitty movies (Son of the Mask being the worst movie ever made). That movie was horse ****, and this show appears to be a poor man's (girl's) version of it, therefore, it is ****.

[Morari]

[MaryJane]

I would like to elaborate on some the character flaws in NOF, in particular the son and daughter.

The daughter for all her power, is emotionally as shallow as a puddle. She hears peoples inner thoughts, but never listens. *Gives away a couple grand in poker money to a security guard when a fraction of that would have been enough had she negotiated*. She uses her powers for the most shallow purposes like chasing boyfriends and still get it wrong. Perpetually blackmails her brother for increasingly selfish reasons that have little gain for her.

The son on the other hand is worse. World's most powerful brain and gets blackmailed by his sister for some of the worst terms ever, all homework till college for some poker money?. Wastes his artificial intellect on homework. He easily has the most powerful power of all of them. With his mind he could with time replicate or remove everyone's powers. He could invent commercially viable fusion, faster then light travel, clinical immortality, invent anything he puts his mind to near effortlessly on his part. He could advance civilization a hundred years technologically in a year. World peace and what does he do? his sister's homework. An absolute dearth of creativity and retarded to boot.

The children are self-absorbed teenagers. If I was back in high school and had powers you better be damn sure I would use it to get chicks and play sports for the goal of getting more chicks. Hell, if I had powers now I would use them to get chicks, but I would also be moved to do some good... eventually.

[Stogi]

Pshh...using super powers to get chicks would be the worst use of a super power, because why the hell do you need it in the first place. Haven't you seen Alladin?

[NWR_insanolord]

The Critic really needs to be on Netflix Instant. Jon Lovitz is the man.

EDIT: Goddammit, I really need to stop impulse-buying DVDs. Amazon Prime makes it way too easy.

[SixthAngel]

Game of Thrones starts in a week and a half.

This is a new HBO series based on the acclaimed George R. R. Martin books.  I have never read the books but this series looks amazing and with HBO at the helm I have high expectations.

Anybody who is interested in fantasy shows should be marking it on their calender.

[Stogi]

So I watched the first two episodes of Camelot and I got to say...

This show is pretty terrible. The acting is a torrid affair, King Arthur looks like a California surfer or twink, and Merlin is that stupid **** from Flash Forward. The only bright spot is that one chick from Kingdom of Heaven. I never found her particularly attractive, something about that pasty white skin (though her eyes are phenomenal). But, she gets naked in both episodes. If this is a reoccurring theme, I say "Well done". At least you got something right.

[Morari]

Game of Thrones starts in a week and a half.

This is a new HBO series based on the acclaimed George R. R. Martin books.  I have never read the books but this series looks amazing and with HBO at the helm I have high expectations.

Anybody who is interested in fantasy shows should be marking it on their calender.

The only exposure I've had to the franchise is the card game, and that was only because Fantasy Flight Games also does the Call of Cthulhu card game.

[MaryJane]

So I watched the first two episodes of Camelot and I got to say...

This show is pretty terrible. The acting is a torrid affair, King Arthur looks like a California surfer or twink, and Merlin is that stupid **** from Flash Forward. The only bright spot is that one chick from Kingdom of Heaven. I never found her particularly attractive, something about that pasty white skin (though her eyes are phenomenal). But, she gets naked in both episodes. If this is a reoccurring theme, I say "Well done". At least you got something right.

There have been two episodes? I also don't like the guy they picked for Arthur for the same reason as you, but despite the shows faults, the writing was pretty good as was the shows pace. I'm trying to put the actors aside for the strength of the story; if they can keep it up. I think I mentioned before that I've read a lot of King Arthur lore, and I'm looking forward to what they do with this one. Even if they destroy it, it'll still be interesting to watch .

[ThePerm]

http://grrm.livejournal.com/

first couple of minutes of game of thrones..looking good.