Author Topic: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG  (Read 39603 times)

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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« on: January 29, 2010, 04:55:11 PM »
Please use this thread to discuss our next RetroActive game, Super Mario RPG. It is available on Virtual Console for 800 Wii Points. Note that we'll be pulling quotes out of this thread to be read on Radio Free Nintendo during our on-air discussion of the game. Comments made here will help to direct the podcast conversation, so please ask and discuss anything about the game that you find interesting!

One more note: due to our established familiarity with SMRPG and its considerable length, we are allowing for extra time for everyone to play deep into the game. Feel free to write about your early impressions, late-game spoilers, obscure side-quests, and overall thoughts on the entire experience.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 05:28:17 PM »
Heck yeah! I'm on board with this game.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 05:30:16 PM »
A pity I just replayed this game last Fall, as I'd totally be along for this one. SMRPG is one of my favorite games from the SNES era.  Pity Square-Enix owns Geno, as I'd love to see him reappear in a modern Mario RPG as more than just a minigame cameo.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 05:46:55 PM »
A pity I just replayed this game last Fall, as I'd totally be along for this one. SMRPG is one of my favorite games from the SNES era.  Pity Square-Enix owns Geno, as I'd love to see him reappear in a modern Mario RPG as more than just a minigame cameo.

It is most likely a dream but I'd love to see Nintendo and Square do a true sequel to it.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 06:05:02 PM »
A pity I just replayed this game last Fall, as I'd totally be along for this one. SMRPG is one of my favorite games from the SNES era.  Pity Square-Enix owns Geno, as I'd love to see him reappear in a modern Mario RPG as more than just a minigame cameo.

It is most likely a dream but I'd love to see Nintendo and Square do a true sequel to it.

From what I remember, the period where Square made Mario RPG for Nintendo was fairly ugly (I think Square found Nintendo too controlling).  That, combined with Nintendo having their own Mario RPG franchise in (the inferior) Paper Mario series, makes me doubtful we'll ever see a true Mario RPG sequel.  I'd certainly love to see the two companies bury the hatchet and work together again, though.
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Offline Shaymin

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 08:20:18 PM »
I'm due to replay this anyway, and this time I swear on my roommate's PSP that I'm going to get 30 jumps out of the Super or Ultra Jump. I've never been able to do it previously.

Does anyone have any advice on doing it? And should I play it on the original cart or the VC?
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 08:25:45 PM »
Having the Jump Scarf helps. I've gotten to 30 before, but never 100. If you have the SNES original available, why not play that? Otherwise, it's likely cheaper (and more reliable) to buy it on VC. I'll be playing it on my SNES.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 10:31:19 PM »
(the inferior) Paper Mario series, makes me doubtful we'll ever see a true Mario RPG sequel.

I think you have that backwards, the Paper Mario games (at least the N64 and GCN ones, I haven't played the Wii one) are vastly superior.

Also, Square loved Nintendo and were one of the few publishers who remained exclusive to Nintendo after everyone else started making games for Genesis. The whole split happened because Sakaguchi is a graphics whore and wanted to use the PlayStation's larger media format for all his FMVs, Yamauchi considered this a betrayal.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2010, 05:42:10 AM »
I think I was at the power rangers boss when I started playing this on the VC when it first came out. I'm going to start off there and keep going. I don't really feel like playing through all of it again so soon on my busy schedule. My goal is to beat the game before this RA is finished.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2010, 05:53:21 AM »
I started playing this today and I started a new game since i beat it before when I got the game when it was released. I really like the music to the game.The gameplay is similar to the Paper Mario series. I would say that those titles are a bit more complex. Also there was the Badge system is more fun to use in those games. Currently I am in Moleville.My team is Mario,Mallow,Geno. Mario is level 8,Mallow is level 7 and Geno is level 6. I think I am a bit underleveled.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2010, 01:45:07 PM »
I started playing this today and I started a new game since i beat it before when I got the game when it was released. I really like the music to the game.The gameplay is similar to the Paper Mario series. I would say that those titles are a bit more complex. Also there was the Badge system is more fun to use in those games. Currently I am in Moleville.My team is Mario,Mallow,Geno. Mario is level 8,Mallow is level 7 and Geno is level 6. I think I am a bit underleveled.

You're doing fine.  Mario RPG is designed so that you should never have to grind to progress, so long as you don't go out of your way to avoid battles.  I will give you fair warning, though: there's a section of the game that takes place underwater.  While you don't have to grind to progress, you will find the boss battle of that area much easier if you did a little grinding and are well-stocked on restorative items.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2010, 01:52:02 PM »
I beat the game before so I am aware of whats ahead. I think last time I leveled up a few levels after I got a star. I did everything in the game last time.Even the challenging boss that is harder than the final boss.


Anyway one of the things that I like about the game is that there are cameos in the game of other Nintendo characters.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2010, 04:51:43 PM »
Just started replaying this yesterday. I remember I liked the game a lot when it debuted, and I still like it now, but it's definitely aged. Moving around is more of a hassle than it should be due to the perspective, and it annoys me when Mario goes out of sight, or I miss a jump because of a funny angle. Times like that, when I'm struggling with the controls, are definitely the game's low points, and they're unfortunately common.

That said, I remain deeply impressed with some of the innovations it brought into RPGs. The battle system, which rewards you for hitting the proper input at the proper moment, does a lot more to keep me engaged in the fights than I do in most other RPGs, and as far as I can remember Mario RPG was the first game that did something like this. The "sequels" to this game adopted the idea, and I think they do it much better, but I give Mario RPG full credit for introducing this (still underutilized) mechanic. I also appreciate how the greater variety of weapons changes up the input: while the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games do a better job of increasing the risks and rewards for zoning out during combat, equipping a new hammer does not change up the timing for inflicting extra damage: here it does. I appreciate this game for having a battle system where I must do more than mash the A button until the victory song commences.

Another thing I really appreciated at the time was the lack of random battles. I don't think this game was the first to feature enemies that you could see (and avoid), but those RPGs were few and far between, so it felt like a breath of fresh air at the time. I still appreciate now, too. While we're on the subject of appreciation, I have to give Squaresoft full credit for the music; it's still great stuff, especially the boss and forest music. What's odd is that the songs seem to fit both Mario and Square, even though the two tend to have divergent music: it's not quite the jazzy-ness (?) that I associate with Mario, but the music's not really the classical orchestra I expect from Sqauresoft. Instead, there's a lot of upbeat, fast-paced brass peices, with a fair dollop of what sounds like a marimba. It's almost like Big Band/Swing fused with Latin. I love it! It really sets the mood, and it's nice to listen to even out of context. I wonder, is there some live performance tape of these songs out there somewhere?

One thing I found really interesting was the decision to lump all of the party's Flower Points together. To the best of my knowledge, this is yet another "first" for the genre. I think it introduces more strategy into battles; forcing you to choose between healing your party and using your special attacks gives tight battles an extra jolt. Of course, items are plentiful, and the game's not particularly difficult, so you rarely need to make such a choice, but it's another nice element that makes you pay attention to the battles without becoming overbearing.

The game's humor definitely needs mentioning. Back then, as today, RPGs tend to take themselves extremely seriously, and moments of real levity are few and far between. Mario RPG, on the other hand, never really plays it somberly, and I think the game as a whole benefits from that. It not only suits Mario like a glove, but it really helped to make the game stand out from the other "the end of the world is coming!" RPGs that have come before and since. The best part is that the story doesn't completely shy away from dramatic moments, but it always plays those off quickly and with charm. In particular, I'm remembering the part where Mallow is told that no, he is not in fact a frog: the developers spoof the "dramatic scene," and while it isn't Abbot and Costello it was an entertaining way to briskly move the plot along without seeming contrived, all while making you chuckle. Yes, Intelligent Systems and Alpha Dream have since done it much better, but full credit to Square for once more doing something completely different with the genre.

Finally, the mini-games. Their inclusion was brilliant: they stopped the main game from getting stale, they're universally short and simple, they tended to fit into the story fairly well, they offered the proper skill/reward ratio, and best of all, most of them were at least fairly fun diversions. I applaud the creativity and effort that clearly went into these brief moments. If they were removed, the game would be lessened. Plus, they were universally goofy affairs, which fit the tone of the game so perfectly.

At first, I was unenthused that this game was chosen for the Retroactive, (I wanted to do Startropics, a.k.a. The Other Zelda) but after a few hours I have to say I'm really glad it was. I've come to appreciate a lot more since the last time I played it, and this Retroactive makes me realize just how innovative the game really was. It's also generally well-executed: the plot's quick, the characters generally likeable (especially the villains), the mechanics are fun, the atmosphere is fantastic, it never really drags, and the overall package was a blast. Some day I'd like to hear how Squaresoft managed to do a 180 from their usual fare, but for now I'll just sit back and appreciate this classic.

Offline gojira

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 03:55:01 PM »
I've never been a big RPG player.  But Super Mario RPG is one of the few I love.  For one, it's Mario.  But mostly it's a very approachable RPG.  The story is simple, but still funny and interesting.  The battle mechanics can also be simple, but the action commands make the game more appealing to a non-RPG person like myself.

Offline yoshi1001

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 07:38:04 PM »
Can't wait to start playing this again. I've also been working through M&L BIS lately, so it should be interesting to compare the two. One thing I really liked about SMRPG was that the size of the game seemed just right, never dragging on. Oddly enough, I've had a few occasions (on my SNES copy) where I've lost my save file midgame and been forced to start over, killing my intrest in the game at the time. Weird, huh?

By the way, for those of you playing on LCD TVs, I strongly reccomend you play on VC so you can use component inputs to avoid any input lag problems. For an RPG, this one is definitely timing-sensitive.
 
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Offline Jet Pilot

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 09:18:07 PM »
I love Paper Mario.  I really love the Mario & Luigi series.  Square's Final Fantasy is one of the best RPG's ever created.  Mix them all up and you get Super Mario RPG.  A masterpiece?  Hardly.  More like a giant steaming pile.  Super Mario RPG is a pile of trash. [yes, I know Super Mario RPG predates both the Paper Mario and the Mario & Luigi series]

The story of Super Mario RPG is uninteresting tripe.  The presentation is very slow and extremely boring.  I often found myself wanting to turn off the game out of sheer boredom.  I only made it several hours into the game because the tedium of the game was just too much for me to handle.

The game's controls are unresponsive and the camera point-of-view was not a good choice for the elements included within the game.  Jumping tends to be imprecise due to the isometric viewpoint of the game's camera.  This makes it very difficult to judge your position with any sort of accuracy. 

The character progression is, at best, monotonous and tiresome.  If the first few hours of the game are any indication of what to expect, this game will require hours upon hours of level grinding.  Grinding is a task that is not -- and will never be -- considered fun.  It is a laborious waste of time used to cover up poor game design.  A good RPG should progress such that level grinding is never required to reach subsequent areas.  The player should gain the adequate experience necessary to progress through the game throughout the normal course of play.

The visuals in Super Mario RPG have that horrible 16-bit "plasticy" look.  The "pre-rendered 16-bit" visual style looked great when the original Donkey Kong Country was released -- primarily because it was a new art-style on home consoles at the time.  Traditional 16-bit sprites have aged beautifully.  Games such as Super Mario World & Yoshi's Island still look gorgeous to this day, 15-20 years after their release.  New games using traditional sprites such as the Mario & Luigi series are a testament to the fact that the 16-bit sprite art-style has a timeless beauty.  The same cannot be said about the pre-rendered style used in Super Mario RPG.  That art-style has aged terribly, and there is a very good reason why we do not see developers using that style today...it looks like crap.

The only thing decent about this game is the music.  It is good (what more can I say).

IMO, Square knew they had a lousy RPG, so they slapped Mario's face in the game in order to disguise the fact that, without the Mario skin, this title would otherwise be considered a complete pile of garbage by the masses.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 10:58:01 PM »
I'm not a RPG player at all, but I tried this one out due to the massive praise.  It was certainly charming, but it just couldn't pull this non RPG gamer into it.  However, I'll give it another shot since it'll be the next retro active.  Hopefully the show can show me what I'm missing out on.
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Offline Halbred

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 11:54:47 PM »
Dang. Jet Pilot bringin' the h8t.

Grinding is actually pretty easy here. If you beat all or most of the enemies in a given map the first time you're in there, you'll wind up at level 25 or so by the end of the game. There's a level cap (30), but it's extremly easy to reach that cap--just fight the boss monsters that are falling off the assembly line two rooms from the final boss for like twenty minutes with your final team (which should be Mario, Peach, and Bowser) and you'll be at level 30. Bam.
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Offline AV

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2010, 01:15:57 AM »
a few things i remember when i played on VC.


1) Graphics are awful . Back in release they were amazing and now its awful especially dated on newer sets in widescreen


2) infinite jumping is much harder now. I remember jumping 80 or something jumps on a character and now it's fairly difficult to keep the momentum


3) Luigi is totally out of the picture seems so odd

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2010, 01:51:59 AM »
There are many places in the level to grind if you want. In the Mushroom Kindom when the Pogo stick Shyguys take over the castle. Just stand infront of the Castle and they keep coming out.Boosters Tower there is a room where the the ShyGuys keep coming. The last one I noticed is on the Sunken ship there is a Dry bones that keeps coming back when you defeat him.It is the room with the Item seller. I am currently on the ship in that area and I will continue now.
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Offline yoshi1001

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2010, 08:47:46 AM »
There are many places in the level to grind if you want. In the Mushroom Kindom when the Pogo stick Shyguys take over the castle.

There are a lot of places with infinitely streaming enemies in this game. Nintendo Power even suggested using a turbo controller in one of them and leaving the game on until you hit level 30.

I actually really like the isometric perspective, especially after playing M&L 3. It feels like the game has a lot more depth since it takes place entirely in 3D, rather than the mostly 2D of the new DS game. It makes it feel liike there's a lot more exploration and physical space (even though I've long since found just about evey thing else in the game).
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2010, 11:27:50 AM »
This is my favorite game ever made, though much of the challenge of the game has dissipated for me because of how much I've played it.

When I was younger, my friend, who inadvertently got me into video games, owned this game and the strategy guide. Weirdly, his SNES resided at his family's shore house. So, whenever I'd go with him there, we'd usually stay up late playing SNES, and binging on SMRPG.

That strategy guide wound up losing its binding and getting jumbled up due to overuse, and after about four or five times through the game with him, I could go through it blind. Finally, when I got my own SNES in like 2002ish, SMRPG was one of the first games I got, and I played through it again with fervor. Since then, I play through the game yearly, though in recent years I usually only get through half of it.

I unabashedly love this game, and while I could hear the argument that later Mario RPGs are better, none of them will ever topple the nostalgic value of SMRPG. The humor is spot on, the story is wonderful hybrid between Nintendo's lack of story and Square's overabundance of it. It had awesome characters that haven't really come back (Booster is basically a sexed-up Wario), and one of my favorite game soundtracks of all time (how I discovered Yoko Shimomura).

I still find it kind of funny when people refer to the difficulty of this game. Not that it's that challenging, but it became so easy for me so long ago that I don't remember a time when I couldn't beat the hell out of Smithy.

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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2010, 01:35:24 PM »
I'm surprised to hear folks talk about the need for grinding. The only time I encountered an enemy that needed grinding to prep for is the optional boss, and even then you're better off with choosing the right team and equipment than grinding to level 30. Personally, I felt that the difficulty curve was spot on, certainly better than Partners in Time.

Offline broodwars

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2010, 01:48:02 PM »
I'm surprised to hear folks talk about the need for grinding. The only time I encountered an enemy that needed grinding to prep for is the optional boss, and even then you're better off with choosing the right team and equipment than grinding to level 30. Personally, I felt that the difficulty curve was spot on, certainly better than Partners in Time.

Yeah, seriously.  Once you get the Lazy Shell armor and equip it on Peach, the game is pretty much over because there isn't a single boss in the entire game that can kill you.  The only time I ever recommend grinding is for dealing with Johnny.  Other than that, so long as you aren't a complete and total pansy and avoiding fights left and right, I felt the game did a pretty good job of balancing things so you could always proceed without grinding.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2010, 01:51:07 PM »
I think I had to grind a bit to beat Smithy the first time I played but since then I only have to grind for the secret super boss.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2010, 02:23:03 PM »
Yeah, the shark boss did require some grinding. Luckily, his dungeon is crawling with high XP baddies, so it's not a big deal. He might be toughest boss in the game, not counting a certain Monster Town secret boss. Even Smithy isn't a big deal if you've got the Lazy Shell on Peach.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2010, 06:59:05 PM »
Dang. Jet Pilot bringin' the h8t.

Just giving my honest opinion.  It's good to hear various opinions in discussions such as these.  I don't like the game, but I still find it interesting to read why others find it so enjoyable.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2010, 04:38:23 AM »
I think it is a nice balance to hear strongly opposing opinions on matters, especially on games that are typically assumed to be universally liked.

Hearing people say they don't like or view less fondly titles like Super Mario World, Mario RPG or A Link To The Past helps me look at games in a different light or see things that I was missing before.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2010, 04:40:42 AM »
This is easily one of my favorite games of all time, I remember when it first came out how the interactive battle system grabbed me (and still does). It is a perfect blend of RPG and action based combat. The game is funny and has some great enemy art designs as well.

What I enjoyed most was a good integration of secrets, including the special armor. Not only that but this game is what help propel Bowser to more then just the villain at the end of the series, it imbued him with a personality which has impacted every Mario game since then. It provided a unique twist in that the villain had to fight with the heroes to gain back what was his.

In addition to that I love all the cameos, such as Samus and even 8 bit Mario. Really I don't see how you can NOT like this game, it has so much charm and personality along with it providing a unique blend of RPG and action elements.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2010, 04:56:08 PM »
I forgot how much I loved Booster. He fits the tone so perfectly: a goofy villain that's hard to take seriously, but he still makes life troublesome. Plus, his tower was fantastic. Not only did it have so many fun toys to mess around with (8-bit Mario FTW!), but the design change to vertical rather than horizontal levels was a nice way of mixing things up. The isometric perspective worked against me when trying to land on that stupid seesaw, though. :-/ Again, mixing platforming with this view was a mistake.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2010, 05:28:10 PM »
I forgot how much I loved Booster. He fits the tone so perfectly: a goofy villain that's hard to take seriously, but he still makes life troublesome. Plus, his tower was fantastic. Not only did it have so many fun toys to mess around with (8-bit Mario FTW!), but the design change to vertical rather than horizontal levels was a nice way of mixing things up. The isometric perspective worked against me when trying to land on that stupid seesaw, though. :-/ Again, mixing platforming with this view was a mistake.

It was a nuisance at best, I managed without much trouble to navigate the isometric perspective.
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Offline yoshi1001

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2010, 08:33:44 PM »
One thing that's really amazing is how quickly you reach the 999 coin maximum-it's really easy, particularly compared to the M&L games. That's probably why they introduced the alternative Frog Coin system.
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2010, 02:17:32 AM »
(Booster is basically a sexed-up Wario)
That's what always confused me. Why didn't they use Wario here? I don't buy the excuse that they didn't want Wario to be "sexed-up", since they've pretty much done that to Wario over the years anyway. (Heck, Wario would use the phrase "hubba-hubba ding dong" all the time at his E3 apperances.)
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2010, 12:34:49 PM »
This is one of my favorite games ever. The way that the story is presented, the music, and characters make it so endearing. The battle system is really great with the timing playing such a big part, almost as if it's a rhythm game. More games should have that system, though a good one to check out is Eternal Sonata which has a Blocking system that is similar.
I really wish that the characters (especially Geno) would make an appearance in another game. I would love to see them in the next Smash Brothers Game.
 All in all, this is a great game, and I'm stoked that it's the RetroActive this time around.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2010, 12:52:42 PM »
I'm really getting into it. Last night I added Geno to my party. I really, really like talking with NPC's. They almost all have something interesting to say, and the localization is great. I'd forgotten how much fun the battle system is--I especially like how most of Mario's weapons have different "sweet spots," timing-wise. However, it's hard to ignore the fact that, even if you're not grinding, if you ARE good at the timing, most battles are easily won.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2010, 01:23:15 PM »
Well I am at Bowser's Keep. I will tackle it after I finish the sidequests. I am missing the fertilizer item. I don't recall where it is at the moment. Does anybody know where it is? I need it for the Lazy Shell. I have the Seed already.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2010, 01:50:01 PM »
Well I am at Bowser's Keep. I will tackle it after I finish the sidequests. I am missing the fertilizer item. I don't recall where it is at the moment. Does anybody know where it is? I need it for the Lazy Shell. I have the Seed already.

It's in the cloud town. After you beat the boss for that area, try walking at the edges of the town (I can't remember the exact location). There's an invisible walkway that will take you to a small platform. You'll find it there.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2010, 03:27:42 PM »
Thank you for your help. So I got past the first part of Bowsers Keep. I just have 1 area to go till I face Smithy. I am at level 22 and I am going to finish up the side quests.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2010, 02:59:54 AM »
So I just put in an hour or so in an old save file about two-thirds of the way through the game. Some quick thoughts:
1) The translation definitely holds up. It isn't as quirky as the Mario & Luigi series, but it's at least as good, if not better than, the Paper Mario series that succeeded this game. The story also introduces friendly monsters (Bowser and his troops / ex-troops), which later Mario RPG games definitely ran with.

2) The graphics don't hold up nearly as well. In fact, I'd almost call the game ugly, even using a tube TV. Maybe it's the isometric angle used, but everything seems mushy, even things like character faces. The pre-rendered graphics aren't causing any serious gameplay problems for me, perhaps because I've played the game several times, but the defense / attack timing still comes off as odd. I learned the timing with Mario, Peach, and Bowser way back when through trial and error, but I still have trouble with Mallow and Geno.

3) The special attacks are pretty useless. I'm finding myself avoiding all of my special moves, save for Princess Toadstool's healing powers. (Is it odd that I want to call her Peach now? This game taught me that she tastes "peachy"....)
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2010, 10:04:13 AM »
3) The special attacks are pretty useless. I'm finding myself avoiding all of my special moves, save for Princess Toadstool's healing powers. (Is it odd that I want to call her Peach now? This game taught me that she tastes "peachy"....)

Better than like chicken (a line used in another Square RPG). ;) I agree that the special attacks are mostly useless, with the exception of Mallow's thunderbolt and Mario's flame attacks, and of course Peach's healing moves. Speaking of Peach, while she does have the typical female RPG character healing moves, she does not have the typical ranged weapons you see-she gets in there and takes it to the enemies, sometimes with her (almost) bare hands. Aside from the Mario 3 cartoon, this may be the best Princess.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2010, 05:02:10 PM »
Once Bowser and Peach step in, Mallow and Geno are basically worthless. I found it interesting that Mallow leveled up one time while he wasn't in my party, suggesting that all the characters get experience from fights. I'm really blowing through the game...I beat Bowyer and Punchinello in like a half hour.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2010, 10:10:11 PM »
I wouldn't say Geno and Mallow is worthless. Mallow can help with certain Bosses. Geno's Geno Boost move can help boost attack and defenses and speed up boss battles quicker. I think the thing that holds Bowser back is his speed and Special defense. Geno in my opinion is better. As far as healing goes Toadstool has everybody beat. It doesn't hurt to have a extra healer though in Mallow.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2010, 10:58:39 PM »
Toadstool heals the entire party. Mallow heals one dude.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2010, 11:10:03 PM »
Looks like I'm the only person here who found Bowser completely useless, mainly due to his weak special attacks.  I used Geno (who has very powerful specials and some helpful Buffs) instead of him, along with Mario and Princess Toadstool.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2010, 12:22:39 AM »
Toadstool heals the entire party. Mallow heals one dude.
Yeah I know that. I was just saying that it can help if one of the 2 healers attack with magic than the other can heal.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2010, 01:18:58 AM »
Mallow is slightly more durable than Peach, but I also prefer Toadstool because her specials were far more useful overall. She goes through FP quickly, but a team built around Mario and Bowser will tear through enemies with just their standard attacks, so that's never been an issue for me. I suppose a team that has Peach and Mallow/Geno would probably have to keep a close eye on their FP, though.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2010, 02:26:46 AM »
I finished this game as a rental back when it was first released, and loved it.  Replaying it on VC, I'm struck by how little from this game was incorporated into later games in the Mario series.  Mario 2 took place in a completely different world, yet the Mushroom Kingdom these days has plenty of Shyguys and the like in its lineup.  But the only influence that Mario RPG had on later Mario games seems limited to the Paper Mario/Mario and Luigi saga alone.   Likely because of the bad blood that developed between Nintendo and Square.
 
I think the odd juxtaposition of Mario and Square-style RPG is why I prefer it over the later Mario role-playing games. It's similar to Kingdom Hearts in that way (or the novel "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies"). The two styles don't necessarily work seamlessly in this game, in fact they're quite dissonant (the Mushroom Kingdom seems nothing like any depiction of it we've seen before or since).  But I enjoy the dichotomy - it is really a strange lovechild, and there is no other Mario game like it.   
 
I'm only a couple of hours in on this playthrough so I'm interested to find out if Geno really is as great of a character as I'm told he's supposed to be.  Mallow is kind of a Jar-Jar-esque tool, don't you think?
 
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2010, 03:22:58 PM »
In regards to Booster...back when the game first came out, I had just always assumed that Booster was some sort of weird alternate-version of Wario;  it does seem odd, as others have mentioned, that they used an entirely new character.   I would normally agree with the argument that Nintendo wouldn't like having Wario "sexed-up" at the time (since Nintendo was almost infamous for their censorship back in the 90s), then I remembered that the game has a couple of minor instances of suggestive humor regarding Peach.   I remembered finding the Princess Toadstool's ? ? ? item near the fireplace at the castle.   Given that the original item in Japan was called Peach's XXX, I find it odd that NOA chose to leave it in at all, given how protective they have traditionally been over their characters!

As a side note, given Miyamoto's reference to Princess Peach as a "glutton" last year, he doesn't seem to hold her morality or ethics in very high regard!  Perhaps Peach is the Marie Antoinette of the Mushroom Kingdom.  (A Mario RPG based on the French Revolution would be awesome, come to think of it! :P)

Anyway, Count me in among those who love this game unreservedly.   Yes, some of the game mechanics are dated, and yes, the graphics don't really look all that pretty anymore, but this game still has a lot of charm.   The music is top-notch, the characters are memorable, and the settings are very diverse and sort of have that story book, fantasy property that is both true to the Mario universe and is fun to play around in.  One of my greatest complaints about some of the later Mario RPGs was that some of the towns weren't very visually interesting...I hated the bland towns and NPCs in Super Paper Mario.    Anyway, that's not the case here.  Each town and game area has a very unique feel.

I think the writing is very impressive considering that most translations for RPGs or other text-heavy games really had a mixed bag of results throughout the 90s.  This is hands-down one of the better writing and translation efforts for the time.   Looking back now, some of the goofy, offbeat, slapstick humor that was so present in sections of Final Fantasy V and VI are very pervasive in this game as well; fortunately, it never reaches the over-the-top melodrama silliness of a typical Final Fantasy plot.

Just a few more quick observations:
- The parade at the end of the game is awesome, especially when it transitions to nighttime.  The music and the lights against the background of Peach's castle remind me of the light parades at Disney World.  See video at 8:35 or so...
-  I think that part of what makes Geno so popular is that his fate in the end of the game is bittersweet, especially for a Mario game.  He accomplished his task, and he has to leave his new friends.
- Maybe I'm in the minority, but I never disliked Mallow.  Early on in the game, he serves well as the character that delivers exposition to the player, since Mario doesn't talk during the game.
- I love Mario as a mime; it cracks me up when he acts out past events in the game.  I love that they've kept variations of that element of the other Mario RPG series.
- I Still love the Axem Rangers joke.  As someone who was annoyed with the Power Rangers phenomenon in the 90s, I thought this was a nice parody.
- No Luigi makes me a sad panda.  I wish that he could have been at least a temporary party member, an NPC or a supporting character with a bigger role.
- Always loved Super Mario 2/USA.  I wish that Wart could have made a cameo in the game, especially since the Shyguys and Snifits came to the party in Booster's Tower.
- I always thought that Valentina's in-game sprite was TERRIBLE.  I never could exactly tell what she was supposed to actually be!  I always wondered if she was actually some sort of weird, well-endowed mutant bird lady.  A look at the Mario Wiki shows that she was just wearing a parrot on her head.  Weird.  http://www.mariowiki.com/Valentina
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 04:12:50 PM by Sundoulos »
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2010, 10:54:02 PM »
I finally booted up SMRPG only to find that my save file was gone; I must have last played it before my Wii had to be repaired and the memory wiped. I'm not thrilled about starting over again, but I wasn't too far last time (the mole town).

Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2010, 10:59:33 PM »
My first RPG was I believe Crystalis on the NES. Didn't really play RPGs in the SNES era.
The first major RPG that I played was Pokemon Blue. I didn't even play this game or Chrono Trigger till this gen on the VC and DS respectivly.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2010, 11:10:38 PM »
Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.

Actually, I'd say my first RPG was probably Chrono Trigger, followed by Earthbound and then FF4.  Super Mario RPG came as one of my final SNES games, and it's still an old favorite.

And yes, Chrono Trigger is still my favorite RPG of all time.  :P: :
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2010, 01:00:10 AM »
I had played through Dragon Warrior 1-4, Final Fantasy 1-3 (US), Earthbound, and Chrono Trigger, and maybe a few others.  I think I might have had RPG burnout and SMRPG was a refreshing change.  It was funny, shorter and tighter.  I remember at the time thinking it was perhaps too short, but that was back when I wanted the most hours out of my money. Nowadays I appreciate brevity and tightness. 
 
I hadn't noticed if the game keeps track of your playing time. Anyone know roughly what their time to completion is?

Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2010, 02:22:11 AM »
It wasn't my first RPG, either.   I had played Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy I and IV (Japanese numbering), and other JRPG roleplaying hybrids...as well as a few PC RPG-light games... the Quest For Glory series, Lord of the Rings, etc.

I think I enjoyed Super Mario RPG because it was the first time that any game really fleshed out any of the characters in the Mario-verse.  Up until that point, Nintendo fans hadn't really experienced anything like that in a Mario game.  I was the nerdy kid who watched the Mario cartoons and had some of the comics in the late 80s/early 90s; being able to play an RPG with Mario and Bowser was just sort of a nostalgia trip for me.

Also, I was at an age where I could buy my own games, but I didn't make enough money to do it frequently.  RPGs always seemed like a good value to me due to the amount of playing time involved...assuming I liked the game.  Super Mario RPG was a good fit. 

I will say that playing Mario RPG made me a little prejudiced towards the Paper Mario series;  I didn't give the original Paper Mario a try until it came out for the VC.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 02:36:28 AM by Sundoulos »
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2010, 11:17:59 AM »
I tried to do the 100 Super Jump challenge and failed miserably. I like the idea of rewarding true dedication with fairly useless items, but man they made that one hard.

Anyhow, I just completed the three invisible flags minigame. It's emblematic of the game: in order to the best secrets the game cheerfully gives you cryptic hints that do little to help you, but once you figure them out you realize that yes, they were shooting straight with you.

I'll give you a "between an o and an a"...

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2010, 01:04:34 PM »
My first RPG was, maybe not surprisingly, Dragon Warrior.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2010, 01:16:33 PM »
Before SMRPG I had experience with Final Fantasy for NES and one of my all time favorite games, Final Fantasy IV. SMRPG blew me away at how unique the battle system was and how it pushed the genre forward.
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Offline dococtorok

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2010, 12:53:56 AM »
It's really a crime that this wasn't released as a GBA/DS game before becoming a VC title.  These models that are so ugly on my LCD TV would have looked fine on the small screen. 

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2010, 11:15:13 AM »
Agreed. I think they probably would have made a killing off of the game if they had put it on the DS...maybe there was some sort of rights issue about who could modify the existing code to make the port possible, even though Nintendo has the rights to the existing game.    Before it was released on the VC, I had wondered if we would ever see the game again since it was the last collaboration between Squaresoft and Nintendo for many years...and their relationship was nonexisting for many years afterwards.

I'm kind of glad that it didn't come out on the DS, because I probably would have bought it upon release...and been out of another $35.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2010, 12:52:14 PM »
I guess it varies a lot according to your TV; on my 37" LCD, the graphics look exactly how I remember them.

I'm already back to Moleville in what seems like just a couple of hours. The game really does move very quickly and avoids the common RPG ailment of having a long, slow beginning. Looking forward to Booster's Tower and beyond, which I haven't played in over ten years.

The Flower Point system has some interesting aspects when compared to traditional magic systems. Most obvious is that FP are shared among the party members. A consequence is that you don't increase max FP from leveling up; instead, the limit is raised by treasure chests and using special items. Those items also have a nice strategic element, since they refill your FP while raising the max, yet cannot be used during battle. This forces you to think about whether it's best to use a Syrup during combat or wait until after. And I just realized that when it is time to use an FP-raising item, it's smartest to use the best one (a Flower Box or Jar) before a lesser one (Flower Tab). That's opposite of how I always did it before.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2010, 02:28:42 PM »
I find myself trying to damage the enemies before the battles by jumping on them, probably because I played Mario & Luigi 3 so recently.  I had forgotten that you can't do that in this game.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2010, 02:39:00 PM »
LOL I tried that too.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2010, 06:47:19 PM »
LOL I tried that too.

n00bs.

Me too. >_>   <_<    >_>

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2010, 04:30:20 AM »
Wait, I thought it did make a difference? Like jumping on them let's you go first and them getting the jump on you makes them go first. Or am I really twisted by Mario & Luigi/Paper Mario games that much?
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2010, 04:36:06 AM »
Yeah, there are no first strikes in this game. That came first in Paper Mario.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2010, 08:57:51 AM »
Yeah, there are no first strikes in this game. That came first in Earthbound.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2010, 03:34:00 PM »
I had no interest in SMRPG when it was released. In my mind, Mario was strictly a 2D platformer. The first RPG I played was Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, and I've been playing RPGs ever since. It provided an accessible introduction to the genre, and had I played SMRPG when it was released, it would have had the same effect of broadening my interests.


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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2010, 06:21:28 PM »
Yeah, there are no first strikes in this game. That came first in Earthbound.

Fixed
I was talking about just the Mario RPG series.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2010, 11:54:34 PM »
Yeah, there are no first strikes in this game. That came first in Earthbound.

Fixed
I was talking about just the Mario RPG series.

hmmm, maybe your sense of humor is broken? If we're going to play the serious game though, I wonder if Earthbound was actually the first rpg to award the player with a first strike advantage for approaching enemies favorably.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2010, 03:11:35 PM »
My first RPG was the first Dragon Warrior.  I enjoyed it a lot but never really got into any other RPGs until Super Mario RPG.  It was definitely the inclusion of Mario that peaked my interest and I loved it throughout. 

This was the first Mario game to give the characters any kind of personalities.  The most prominent for me would be Bowser.  I remember it was such a big deal to have Bowser playable, akin to recently with Sonic being playable in Smash Bros.  And Bowser being a hapless bad guy is still prominent today. 

The actions and emotions of the characters were really entertaining back in the day.  And Mario falling on his face and miming is still funny today.  On another note, my friend and I always thought it was weird how your party members literally hang out inside of Mario.  We always said they went into his pocket. 

As far as the technical aspects go, I don't have any problems with the graphics.  I'm playing the game on my SNES hooked up to my plasma.  Still images of the characters are kinda ugly, but the personality Square gave them overcome that aspect.

Like I said before, I really enjoy the battle system.  I love the timing setup and is exactly as I remember.  I like how different weapons actually change the characters attacks in battle.  I'm not a hardcore RPG person, so maybe this is common.  But in the few RPGs I have played, better weapons tend to just up the attack stat. 

I remember the game not being all that difficult other than a few bosses, but I had zero issues this playthrough.  Maybe it's how I leveled my characters?  My final group was Mario, Princess (for healing) and Geno (for attack/defense boost). 

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2010, 10:39:41 PM »
So yeah I just beat the game with Mario,Mallow and Bowser. You really nead to stock up on healing items and status healing items and reviving items. Mallow you pretty much need to heal the majority of the time. It is a juggling fight in that you have to balance attacking the boss and healing your team.
Next up is Mario, Mallow, and Geno.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2010, 10:49:49 PM »
OR you can equip Peach with the Lazy Shell armor and she can heal everybody every time it's her turn.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2010, 11:18:38 PM »
OR you can equip Peach with the Lazy Shell armor and she can heal everybody every time it's her turn.
Look Halibred I'm trying to beat the game with every possible combination of characters.
I already beat the game with Mario, Toadstool, Geno.Mario,Mallow,Bowser. Mario Mallow, and Geno. Now I am going to beat it with Mario, Toadstool, and Mallow.
Anyway my most recent fight with Mario,Mallow and Geno was pretty easy. Geno can Boost up everybodies defence with Geno Boost when you time the button press correctly. You have to press Y while you see the arrows on the screen when using Geno Boost. I almost didn't make it out alive because my whole team turned into scarecrows so I couldn't use items but I could use spells. I managed to beat Smithy the turn I changed into a scarecrow.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 11:32:56 PM by Maxi »
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #72 on: February 17, 2010, 01:00:23 AM »
Maxi, I like your experiment. If you can win with every combination, it proves that the game is balanced correctly. Plus, it's a cool follow-up to several earlier comments about certain characters being less useful or possibly even unworkable in the final battle.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2010, 02:40:05 AM »
Well thank you Jonny. The hardest will probably be Mario,Geno, Bowser since none of them can use healing arts. It should be noted that my team consists of Mario,Mallow, and Geno at level 28 while Bowser and Princess Toadstool are at level 27. Everybody has at least 200 HP. Mario has that amount while I think my highest is 213 that Bowser has.Everybody else has something in between those two.

As you might have guessed every team can take on challenges differently.

I remember reading one of my old NPs and there was a challenge to beat Final Fantasy with only White Mages. I guess my point is that if you plan your strategy for your team and follow it through than you can pretty much win with any team. You are really your only obsticle.

I am going to beat it with Mario,Toadstool and Mallow now. I think I will try to use Mallow as the healer this time instead of Toadstool.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2010, 08:36:52 AM »
One tip: When you level up, you get to boost one set of stats. Be sure to check all three-one generally has a bigger boost than the others.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2010, 11:13:26 AM »
Duely noted yoshi. This time around I basically tried to boosts everybodies weak area. I of course raised everbody's strong stat a bit but my primary focus was their weak stat.

Anyway I beat it with Mario,Mallow and Toadstool. A bit more challenging since I used Mallow for healing. In the bosses first form. I had the most trouble. I had to try and prevent Smithy from making more Pogo ShyGuys. This was probably the hardest since I was being bombarded by attacks that hit everybody. I used one or 2 PickMeUps during this time. Once I got it down Smithy only it was pretty easy. I am learning more about Smithy with each fight.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2010, 01:14:36 PM »
Ah, I see, Maxi. That's a cool experiment. I'll be interested to hear which combinations were the toughest.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #77 on: February 17, 2010, 01:23:22 PM »
Well I would imagine that Mario,Geno, and Bowser would be the toughest. Nobody has any healing arts. I woke up a little bit ago got to wake up fully then I will begin again.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2010, 02:29:36 PM »
I've tried that combination before...as long as you have enough healing items, it can be done.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2010, 11:47:07 PM »
So I beat the game with all of the combinations. Here is the items that I had in all of the battles. 6 Max Mushrooms, 3 Fp items that healed 40 FP. 3 FP items that healed 80 FP.6 Pick Me Ups.5 Freshen up.That item that heals all the party of status conditions.2 of those items that healed the entire party fully.Finally 3 Rock Candys.
In this battle with Mario,Bowser, and Geno I went after Smithy in the first part of match instead of trying to go after the foe making enemy as I did in the previous matches. I had to use 2 Max Mushrooms in the first part of the battle. Once I got to the second part I used Bowser for the healing items since I equiped him with the Lazy Shell. I had Peach equip it before.He had the most HP in my group so he would last the longest.
Anyway for the most part I just did my normal attacks with Mario and Geno could boost everybodys defence and attack. When both the top and the bottom and top of a form was active I would focus Mario and Bowser on different parts of the body while Geno used his attack that hits all the enemys. Later on I ran out of Max Mushrooms but I did have Pick me ups and 2 of those items that healed everybody.
So I ran out of Max Mushrooms. So I would use up my Pickmeups next then the fully healed items.
I beat Smithy with Genos help mainly but Bowser and Mario helped alot.

Anyway I think these will be my final thoughts on the game.

If you guys want you can try my little experiment if you like.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2010, 01:54:00 AM »
I really liked the Axem Rangers. I like how they are portrayed as evil doppelgangers tp the power rangers. It was kind of interesting to fight five bosses at once and the phrases that each member said when they were defeated was just hilarious. My only dissapointment was that the Blade airship did not transform into some kind of mech for your team to fight and instead just fought the head of the ship, Blaster.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2010, 03:37:37 AM »
Didn't Nintendo create a DS game for Club Nintendo in Japan that featured the Axiom Rangers as the stars?
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2010, 02:00:59 PM »
I hadn't noticed if the game keeps track of your playing time. Anyone know roughly what their time to completion is?
I beat the game when it came out on VC a couple years ago.  According to the Nintendo Channel my completion time was 20 hours, 32 minutes.  It was my first time through the game and I beat every side quest.  I didn't max out all characters, but I think everyone's level was above 25.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2010, 11:23:26 PM »
So I'm throwing in the towel on 30 jumps. For whatever reason, I can't get past 21. Truly, this is a sign that I have no rhythm.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2010, 04:23:25 AM »
So I'm throwing in the towel on 30 jumps. For whatever reason, I can't get past 21. Truly, this is a sign that I have no rhythm.
The timing of when you have to press the button starts to change after every few jumps, and the window of opportunity also gets smaller. I guess it takes trial and error.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2010, 10:07:31 AM »
So I've never played this game before, though I really enjoy the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi serieseses. (They're pretty much the only RPGs that I can stand to play.) Started it up yesterday night, and fell asleep within about half an hour. It isn't too bad, though. I was just tired (and RPGs are boring).

My impression so far is that it almost seems like Square was already working on a game, and Nintendo paid them to insert Mario and the gang a ala Dinosaur Planet
/StarFox Adventures. I wonder why Square felt the need to create characters like Mallow and Geno when the Mushroom Kingdom already had a pretty rich cast (albeit not as rich as it is now). The whole "Smithy Gang" thing is kind of bizarre. Also, the environment feels kind of like a funhouse Mushroom Kingdom, like a Korean knockoff. Everyone looks slightly off. Like how Mario's eyes are all googly and close together (did Rare assist with the design?).

It seems that Nintendo wasn't too bowled over with Square's original contributions, either, since they seem to have disappeared into the annals of time, unlike externally-created characters like Waluigi or even Krystal. The Mario Universe particularly is such a melange of unique parts of strange origin (Doki Doki Panic, sports games, etc.). It seems odd that Nintendo hasn't done much with these characters since, even in fanservicey kind of games like the Mario & Luigi. Come to think of it, I recall seeing that the characters belonged to both Nintendo and Square, so maybe Square owns the original characters it created in the game. It's a testament to their bargaining power that Nintendo let them keep the rights. I guess they will be in limbo until Mushroom Kingdom Hearts, when a badass realistic Geno (and a badass realistic Mallow?) comes charging in all of a sudden and fanboys across the world swoon.

Anyway, because of how the areas are segmented and rather small, the adventure feels a bit less epic than it could. And unlike the PM/M&L series, Super Mario RPG seems to take itself fairly seriously. In true Square fashion, there are also a lot of moments in which control is taken away from the player. Mario is typically all about direct control. Learning through exploration (and tiny signboards), rather than narration. Well, perhaps that's untrue. The overarching 'plot' is often shown in a brief cutscene. SMRPG is definitely more cutscene-heavy, though. They even have one every time you enter an area like Bowser's Castle (or whatever that Castle is supposed to be).

Which brings us to the graphics. I remember being blown away by screenshots of this game (when it came out), but I don't know how well they've held up. The pre-rendered look is kind of dated now, and this game seems far more dithered and artifacted than something like Donkey Kong Country (perhaps because of the brighter color palette?). You can also tell it isn't a Nintendo game because of the isometric viewpoint. I don't know if that's ever been a good idea, especially in a game with platforming (even Q-Bert had difficult controls). But this game doesn't seem to require much precision when navigating the world, so it isn't too bad. And it does give the game a unique feel. The navigation doesn't really feel Mario, but the controls are decent and it's enjoyable enough to bound around. I liked the little touches, like the springy bed. It would be nice if those kinds of things lead to hidden areas and treasures, and such. We'll see.

The music has been very nice so far. No complaints. I think whoever composed that main theme is going places.

The combat is a tad underwhelming, coming from Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi, because those games take the ideas so much farther, and feel so much more tactile and satisfying. However, I can recognize that this was a pretty groundbreaking system for the time (the genesis of the best, most involving battle system in any turn-based RPG, in my opinion), and it is still an effective upgrade from the traditional RPG for me. Love the involvement, love the lack of random battles. And the lack of obvious visual/aural feedback on the timing does add a bit of challenge, even if the overall difficulty balance of the game seems to be fairly gentle (especially coming off of Shiren the Wanderer DS). I did die once, but that was more due to the lack of feedback on my low health. Still, the timing/damage model seems a bit more analog than that of PM/M&L. The leveling system seems pretty streamlined, and I haven't come across anything like a badge system. I'm not sure how deep the strategy of the game will get, but I'm guessing not very. I certainly don't mind the lack of stat-crunching, though.

So, yeah. Those are my impressions from a half-hour in. It may seem like I was just bitching, but I actually did enjoy my time with the game, and I don't regret buying it (yet). I shall continue the archaeological dig.

Oh, and I liked the little slot machine bit after some battles, but probably would've preferred a mini-game that was a bit less luck-based.


Does anyone know the development history surrounding Super Mario RPG? I've heard that Square and Nintendo weren't on the best of terms at that point in time. That might give some interesting historical perspective on the game. Plus, it would be pretty fascinating to hear about the ins and outs (and philosophical differences) of a Square/Nintendo team project. How much input did Nintendo really have?

They have recently teamed up again with Mario Hoops (what a bizarre project for Squintendo to tackle), and I guess Brownie Brown is kind of an interdimensional link between the two publishers.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 10:31:58 AM by anand »

Offline yoshi1001

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2010, 09:50:02 PM »
One thing I will point out is that enemy attacks aren't really diverse enough, particularly in the end. If you've spent the time to go through everything, there aren't many surprises in the final boss.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2010, 08:08:12 PM »
Played a bit more. I guess there is a 'badge' system, although it seems a bit utilitarian, like "Wear this to prevent poison", "Wear this to prevent falling asleep", etc.

I still can't believe they went with the Congo Bongo perspective for the overworld platforming. Even successfully jumping on a save block is a challenge in spatial reasoning.

The game seems a bit longer than I expected after grabbing the first star. I feel like most of that length comes from endless battles through fairly small environments, though. Battle upon battle upon battle. Which is kind of a problem, since they feel so similar to each other and don't require any strategy, really. It gets to be a bit much, and I wish the game just cut about half of the enemies. All other things being equal, I would probably enjoy it a lot more.

Which is strange, because in Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario, I would actually seek out battles. They were almost as strategy-shy, but just felt much more impactful and arcadey.

There have been some charming bits in SMRPG (like the tadpole song), but also many clunky elements (like the tadpole song), and the cutscenes are a bit lengthy, overall. I do appreciate Mario's overall zippiness, though the game is slowed down somewhat by battle transitions/animations/epilogues/etc., a problem that is compounded when the battles start stacking up.

It is probably unfair to keep comparing Super Mario RPG to its successors, but I've heard a lot of people say that they prefer Mario RPG to the modern entries, and... nostalgia is a hell of a drug. PM and M&L outclass SMRPG on pretty much every level, particularly when it comes to combat and writing.

But it's decent. If I rented it, I probably wouldn't feel compelled to finish it, but I bought it, so I will. Folly begets folly.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2010, 06:40:46 PM »
I really don't like this game. I don't know what it is but the Mario RPG's always just bore me. I tried to play the Thousand Year Door, and was actually really exited for it, and I got about 3/4 of the way through it only to give up out of sheer boredom. This game is the same way, only worse, because I don't have any illusions that it is going to get better at some point because of my reaction to the other games.
The combat takes just enough attention to be obnoxious. Everyone seems to love the idea that you have to pay attention to the combat, but really, for me it's so simple that I'm bored, but it takes too much attention for me to be able to do something else at the same time, like I do with a lot of turn-based RPGs. It makes every single battle extremely tedious, the same problem I had with the Thousand Year Door. I understand why people like this game, but for me it's just too tedious, and the writing isn't really good enough to get me through it, so it's just aggravating. I might come back to this at some point and try to plough farther in, but at this point, I'm just frustrated, and I don't think I'm very far in at all.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2010, 07:58:14 PM »
One question I do have (and a comparison to CT) is that you always have Mario in your party. If you had complete freedom (like after Crono "dies"), what would your team be?
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2010, 11:29:58 PM »
Mario-Peach-Geno here. Like it or not, Mario with the Lazy Shell (weapon) is still the best physical attacker in the game, Peach is still the best healer, and I'm able to time Geno Boost for the defense+attack buff every time on everyone.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2010, 04:31:19 AM »
One question I do have (and a comparison to CT) is that you always have Mario in your party. If you had complete freedom (like after Crono "dies"), what would your team be?
Still Mario, with Mallow and Geno. Peach is weak and her healing is unnecessary, and Bowser is pretty useless and weak against most special attacks. I always go for the attack/defense stat boost which makes everyone powerhouses. There's not much need for other healing items besides the Pick-Me-Up item, it's only five coins and it revives the character to full HP. Besides, since I fight every enemy, I'm always over-leveled, so nobody really gives me trouble.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2010, 04:33:03 AM »
What do you all think about those bizarre killer chests that seem ridiculously overpowered? I always thought they were strange and they gave me so much trouble.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2010, 04:38:07 AM »
Well I haven't found many of them. If I recall correctly its Defence is high while its Special Defence isn't that good. Now that I think about it Tales of Symphonia and Golden Sun has those types of enemys as well. I kinda like the idea of a Monster Treasure Chest. It is like the developer likes messing with the players mind.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2010, 04:38:35 AM »
The Jump special greatly damages those enemies, so I don't have much problem with them.

In all honesty, they kind of creep me out. Any inanimate object which is actually alive doesn't sit right with me.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2010, 06:56:42 AM »
Yeah, similar monsters are in many JRPGs. I'm just wondering what significance they have, if any.

They are rather frustrating because you may not be prepared to face them because you are hoping for something like a healing item.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2010, 10:14:53 PM »
I finally booted up SMRPG only to find that my save file was gone; I must have last played it before my Wii had to be repaired and the memory wiped. I'm not thrilled about starting over again, but I wasn't too far last time (the mole town).

Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2010, 11:25:54 PM »
Yeah, similar monsters are in many JRPGs. I'm just wondering what significance they have, if any.

They are rather frustrating because you may not be prepared to face them because you are hoping for something like a healing item.
I think that's the point, they are supposed to surprise you and catch you off guard. Perhaps it's a way to teach you to always be prepared? If I remember rightly, they give you a good amount of experience points and a nice item, so they are worth fighting.

Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.
No, that would be Final Fantasy on the NES, which I was never too into. This wasn't the first RPG I played on the Super NES either, as that was, fittingly, Final Fantasy II. It was the first Mario RPG I played however, and I do think that is key for one's enjoyment of the game. Certain elements of the game are more played out in the later Mario RPG games, though none of them are able to give Bowser so much character!

Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2010, 12:11:21 AM »
I backed up my save data for the game on my SD card in preparation for this kind of thing, or if I ever reformatted my wii by accident.

I backed up mine too, but for whatever reason (possibly a corrupted SD card, which I have since replaced), my save files were found to be incompatible with any games I tested after the repair.
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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2010, 12:48:36 AM »
Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.

Nope. I think I played a bunch of Final Fantasys for NES, SNES and Game Boy, Dragon Quest, Chrono Trigger, and more.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2010, 05:05:18 AM »
I backed up my save data for the game on my SD card in preparation for this kind of thing, or if I ever reformatted my wii by accident.

I backed up mine too, but for whatever reason (possibly a corrupted SD card, which I have since replaced), my save files were found to be incompatible with any games I tested after the repair.

There was a know glitch for a while where VC SMRPG saves were getting deleted/corrupted randomly for little reason and I believe Nintendo stealth updated the game on the shop channel to address the issue.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2010, 12:53:57 AM »
I'm getting destroyed in the sunken ship. Any tips on how to handle all these ghost enemies? The Gorgons in particular have brutal spells that can't be defended with a button press. And is there a trick to beating Dry Bones in less than 10 minutes, aside from Pure Water?
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2010, 01:22:07 AM »
What level are your characters at?

The Dry Bones enemies will be defeated in one hit by any special attack. I use Mallow's Thunderbolt because it uses only 2 FP and attacks all enemies. I believe the Gorgons are also weak vs. thunder attacks. Pure Water does come in real handy though, so master the timing to get a freebie.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2010, 01:35:00 AM »
I'm getting destroyed in the sunken ship. Any tips on how to handle all these ghost enemies? The Gorgons in particular have brutal spells that can't be defended with a button press. And is there a trick to beating Dry Bones in less than 10 minutes, aside from Pure Water?
Well as Mop_it_up mentioned special attacks do wonders. Thunderbolt works well.
Since you are in the Sunken Ship there is a good place to level up if you like and get more coins. In the room with the item seller there is a Drybones that keeps on coming back after you beat the battle.
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Offline Armak88

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2010, 01:48:08 AM »
My favourite part in the sunken ship is when you are in the room where there is a false mario that mirrors your movement and if you fake him out you can jump on his head, jump on the floating chest in the middle of the room and get a secret chest floating above the original one. I remember finding that when I was 8 years old and I was so proud of myself that I never forgot where that secret was.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2010, 10:41:54 AM »
Square and Nintendo should collaborate on a sequel that has the graphical out put similar to that of the Mario Galaxy games.
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Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #106 on: February 25, 2010, 09:52:35 AM »
I'm not sure that I ever see Nintendo and Square Enix making that sort of collaboration ever again.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #107 on: February 25, 2010, 01:52:30 PM »
They did it on Mario Basketball...

Thanks for the advice, by the way. I just beat Yaridovich.
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Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #108 on: February 25, 2010, 02:59:38 PM »
They did it on Mario Basketball...

I had completely forgotten about that!
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #109 on: February 25, 2010, 09:26:03 PM »
It would give the wii the RPG momentum that it desperatly needs right now. I do not see much of a problem with them collaborating. The graphics of Galaxy would be nice for the game. But would the game be an actual sequel to SMRPG, or something completely new?
 
I wager that the game would be a true sequel to the old game with Smithy returning for revenge. Perhaps Yoshi and Luigi could be playable characters. Geno would return to help  out along with a series of new characters developed by Square. The return of the Axem Rangers would be cool aswell, but being able to battle the Blade airship in some kind of mech form would take the cake.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 09:28:54 PM by Kytim89 »
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #110 on: February 26, 2010, 03:42:50 AM »
I didn't find Mario Hoops to be a very good game, with poor control, poor balance, and a lack of content. I think a Wii sequel could have some potential, though the DS game didn't sell very well so that's unlikely to happen.

Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #111 on: February 26, 2010, 09:18:35 AM »
 
It would give the wii the RPG momentum that it desperatly needs right now. I do not see much of a problem with them collaborating. The graphics of Galaxy would be nice for the game. But would the game be an actual sequel to SMRPG, or something completely new?
Well, I was originally hopeful that Square Enix would show something about Dragon Quest X this year, since they announced it would be on the Wii quite some time ago.  Now that NOA is publishing Dragon Quest IX, I think that the focus at E3 is going to be on pushing DQ IX.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2010, 01:23:59 PM »
Square and Nintendo should collaborate on a sequel that has the graphical out put similar to that of the Mario Galaxy games.

I absoultely agree! In fact, when I started playing that first part of Galaxy, the narative and feel reminded me a lot of SMRPG.

Offline Kytim89

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2010, 01:28:36 PM »
If it was to happen, what would everyone want from it?
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #114 on: February 26, 2010, 02:34:28 PM »
Geno! Please Geno! haha
But really, the great humor that all of the MRPG games have shared.
The beautiful style of the Galaxy games (Maybe even stylized a little diferently).
A fully orchestrated soundtrack.
I'd be sold!

Offline gojira

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #115 on: March 01, 2010, 12:02:18 PM »
Just as a bit of a follow up.  I'm one of the few that enjoys Mario RPG more than the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games that followed.  I started a new game in Mario & Luigi to see exactly why I didn't enjoy it.

The main issue I have is the 'Bros.' stuff in the overworld.  Having to constantly switch between Mario & Luigi and turning on and off the special jumps or whatever is tedious, not fun and not Mario-y in my opinion.  I'm sure Luigi fans love it, but it isn't my thing.

Also I don't find the battles as enjoyable.  I do like the first strike aspect and the timing of jumps is still there.  But once again I don't like the 'Bros.' powers.  They're basically QTEs, which I don't particularly hate but I still didn't find fun at all.  I guess I like a bit of action in the battles (i.e. single button presses at the right time), but nothing too complicated. 

Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #116 on: March 01, 2010, 03:25:10 PM »
I like SMRPG better than any Paper Mario game, but not as much as M&L 1/3.

By the way, I got the Lazy Shells! Seems inevitable that I will finally beat this game, as long as other things don't distract me first.
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Offline dococtorok

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #117 on: March 01, 2010, 04:10:25 PM »
Just finished today (as I type the end credits are playing).  I have to say that I enjoyed the game more than either the M&L or Paper Mario games.  The pacing is just perfect, if a little easy.  I finished it without any grinding (even beat Culex) though the Lazy Shells helped a ton.  In fact right around the sunken ship I started avoiding every enemy I could. 

I love the M&L games, especially Superstar Saga, and generally despise the Paper Mario games because of the pacing problems and extensive dialogue that is not as funny as they think it is (I can pick up Metal Gear for that, thanks).  But neither of those series capture the pure strangeness and fast pace of this game.

There is a Luigi cameo, BTW, but I won't give away where.

Thanks for getting me to play it again, it was completely worth it! 

Offline Kytim89

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #118 on: March 03, 2010, 09:39:51 PM »
I have reached Land's End and I am about ten hours into the game.
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