Topic: Final Fantasy 13 X-2

[alegoicoe]

If you guys are waiting for this game as bad as i am, you should check out this screen shots.

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/final-fantasy-xiii-2/news/final-fantasy-xiii-2-shut-up-and-look-at-these-amazing-screenshots/a-20110713171935148037/g-2011011862754207030

[broodwars]

I'm very wary of this game.  I was a fan of FF XIII, and I'm concerned Square might be over-reacting to the complaints against the first game.  I don't want Towns in this game unless they are going to be done well, with interesting places to explore, quests to do, and people to meet.  I've never seen a well-done Town in a game by Square (Rabanaster from FF XII probably being the closest they've gotten), so I only want Towns in FF XIII-2 if they're going to be done right.

The combat system looks more or less the same, though I'm annoyed to see the rush to put friendly monsters into it.  That always strikes me as a desperation move by developers who have no creative ideas (see Dragon Quest, Tales of Symphonia 2, that crappy GBA Lufia game, etc.), and more often than not it fails to be compelling.  I hope that FF XIII-2 opens up its combat options much quicker than its predecessor did.

I'm looking forward to the game, but I hope that the developers have taken the criticism of the first game right, and have not just rushed to throw every JRPG trope they can think of into the game in the vain hope of appeasing every single complainer.

[alegoicoe]

I am confident in this game, but like you said people did overreact to FF13 lineal paths and the exclusion of towns, most of those were fans from past ff titles, like you am also a fan of FF13, i think its one of the best game this generation of consoles have to offer, specially with some many shitty RPGs out there, its good that the battle system remains intact, out of all the FF titles i have played this is by far the best system, my second choice would be FF X, which i think 13s battle system is an evolution of X. Other than that is cool to have towns, specially that it lends it self for side quests, and we are also gonna get to explore more of gran pulse, and lets also not forget about the sound track which is incredible, i hope X-2 matches the original soundtrack.

[Ian Sane]

broodwars, what would you consider a "well done town"?  It just seems like an odd complaint as towns have been a staple of RPGs forever and I've never noticed anything particularly offensive about any town in a Square game vs. some other RPG.  They always just seemed like typical RPG towns to me.  But I'm not a big RPG nut or anything so I don't have a wide sample to go on.
 

people did overreact to FF13 lineal paths and the exclusion of towns, most of those were fans from past ff titles, like you am also a fan of FF13

There's a dilemma.  Who should Square focus on?  Those that liked FF13 or the longtime fans that didn't like it because it was too different from past FF titles?  On one hand it would be nice to reward those that liked FF13 with a sequel to it.  But on the other hand, FF13 is clearly regarded as an oddball entry in the series and Square would likely be pleasing more people if they went back to something more conventional.  It is very annoying to be a fan of something and have it ubruptly change into something you don't like.  From a business point of view I figure those that liked FF13 would still buy a conventional FF sequel that "fixes" everything, even if they would not prefer that, while that those that didn't like FF13 would likely not buy a new FF that continued in the same direction.  From a business perspective "fixing" FF13 is probably the lesser gamble.

[broodwars]

Yeah, the soundtrack could be problematic this time, since Square-Enix has since fired their entire pool of composers.  I really liked the soundtrack in FF XIII, so I hope they can get that composer back.

broodwars, what would you consider a "well done town"?  It just seems like an odd complaint as towns have been a staple of RPGs forever and I've never noticed anything particularly offensive about any town in a Square game vs. some other RPG.  They always just seemed like typical RPG towns to me.  But I'm not a big RPG nut or anything so I don't have a wide sample to go on.

A well-done town IMO is something like Megaton in Fallout 3 or Omega in Mass Effect 2 (and to a much lesser extent the Citadel in Mass Effect 1, though that is tedious to get around): they're relatively small and easy to navigate, the town needs to have plenty of personality, and there are interesting quests to discover and do there.  RPGs often seem to like either making their towns so big they are cumbersome to navigate, a place that exists only so the party can stay at the local Inn and do a cutscene, or a generic quest-hub with quests no one really wants to do (no, I do not care about your missing cat, generic townsperson).  It's a tricky balancing act, and if you aren't going to do it right you might as well not have Towns at all.  FF XIII's problem is that they cut towns without giving you something else that gives you a reprieve from the constant battles.  Instead of citing that problem, the complaint always goes "Waaah!  There are no towns!"

Square-Enix just doesn't tend to create towns that are altogether interesting or memorable.  Like you said, they are "typical", places you enter so you can get out of them as soon as possible.

[Ceric]

I really need to progress reasonably far in FFXIII before thinking of this one.

[alegoicoe]

I really liked how Square Enix streamlined the purchase system in FF13, its good to have towns with shops and Inn's but sometimes is just tedious having to go to a town to get new or upgrade your weapons, or to get better equipment, and think FF13 solution should be left alone, and if they want to add shops in the towns, let it be for specialty items that you can only get in that specific town.

[alegoicoe]

^have you played FFXIII?

[broodwars]

FF XIII's a very divisive game, and even as someone who enjoyed it I can't say it didn't have a lot of room for improvement.  I'd just let it be if someone really didn't like it or finds your interest in its sequel amusing, alegoicoe.

[alegoicoe]

agreed

[broodwars]

I figured with the game coming out next Tuesday and the demo already out on PSN/XBLA, I might as well kick this topic back up where I can find it next week.

So yeah, I downloaded the PSN demo and I've now played through it a few times.  Overall, I liked what I saw and think the improvements made over its predecessor were generally a good thing.  It's been a few years since I Platinum-ed Final Fantasy XIII, but I was surprised at how quickly I slipped back into the flow of the Paradigm Shift system once again.  I appreciate that you don't have to sit through a 5 second animation anymore the first time you Paradigm Shift during each battle.

I'm not a huge fan of the monster system (I'd rather just have a 3rd party member), but the way it is integrated in with the paradigm and crystarium (level-up) systems is...acceptable.  I don't like that you can end up dumping a lot of expensive items into leveling-up a monster that is quickly supplanted by another of the same class, but at least you can sacrifice the old monster to carry-over passive bonuses to the new one.

The music is kind of weird this time around, though thankfully not in the utterly bizarre way that FF X-2's was.  There's still a fair amount of symphonic music, but there's a much greater emphasis on electronic and up-beat tunes in general.  My big complaint about the music, though, is that it really doesn't seem very memorable outside a couple of songs I've heard so far (most notably the battle theme and the theme played when you fight Atlas at the end of the demo).  It's fitting and atmospheric, but just not very memorable.

As for the Towns in this game, if the "Bresha Ruins Excavation Site" shown in the demo is an indication of what they're like in the main game, I'm really not a fan.  You can walk around and talk to people, but they really don't seem to have anything interesting to say and there's nothing really interesting to do there.  At least people can stop bitching about "linear corridors" since the areas are much more open now. 

You can find hidden items now by scanning areas with Mog, which is a little strange but works alright.  I have to take issue with how the sidequests are handled, though: you can accept them from NPCs, but there doesn't seem to be a quest log to keep track of them.  In the demo there's only 2 so it's not that bad, but that sounds like a major problem for the main game.  I'm really not a fan of random battles making their return, but at least you can avoid them if you wish by running outside the battle range of the monsters.  The new Crystarium system is confusing with how you level-up the individual classes, but you're still traveling down a single upgrade line.

Boss battles and Limit Breaks have Quick Time Events now, which I've seen some folks complain about but I think they work rather well.  When the words "Cinematic Action" come-up on-screen, you know the QTEs are coming and when they do appear on-screen you have a little timer around each button so there's time to see the buttons and then react.

A complaint I have in general, though, which really comes across in the writing is that everything seems to be overcomplicated.  For instance, the XP you acquire in battle is called "Crystogen Points" (abbreviated as "CP"), yet the place you use it is the "Crystarium Grid".  If you don't want to call it "XP" for some reason, why not just call them "Crystarium Points" rather than make up a whole new unnecessary word?  There are instances of that all over the menus, as well as frequent casual uses of other terms like "Paradox" and "Time Anomaly" (which are two separate things in the demo) without ever defining what those are.  I'm concerned in general with the writing from what I've seen of the demo.

I'm looking forward to the release of the main game next week, as for Christmas I received a pre-order for the PS3 LE (which comes with the 4-disc soundtrack, as well as the Best Buy FF XIII-2 hardcover novel pre-order bonus).  I'm hoping the game lives up to my expectations.  If you liked FF XIII, this demo seems to indicate FF XIII-2 is more of that with some new elements to keep it fresh.  But if you didn't like FF XIII-2, it doesn't look like FF XIII-2 is different enough to change most people's minds.

[alegoicoe]

I just got the game today, am almost three hours into it and so far the game is flawless, i really liked FF13 but this one feels much suited for hardcore fans of the series since it a more open experience, i cannot comment on the characters cause am not deep enough into the game but Caious and Noel seem like interesting characters, and the monsters collection its a nice addition, although am still getting a hang on that, i will comment as i proceed with the game, but i highly recommend it if you liked XIII, and the battle system is intact.

[broodwars]

I picked up my CE game, CE guide earlier today, but I haven't really had the energy to start playing yet (I'm still recovering from a nasty weekend with the Flu).  I will say this, though: the "hardcover novel" that Best Buy was pimping as their pre-order bonus has been a spectacular disappointment.  It's 36 pages long, and it's written so simply a 5 year old could probably read it.  It's neat to have as a collectible, but I'm starting to wish I had gotten the game from Amazon instead for the Omega fight.

The Collector's Edition is very nice and classy, though, with a slipcase that comes off to reveal a pull-out digipack; which then unfolds out to reveal the artbook; soundtrack CDs; liner notes; manual; and game.  My only real complaint about it is that I wish the soundtrack had its own container rather than being pages in a digipack.  Overall, it's nice, though.

The Collector's Edition guide, though, is very well-done and similarly classy with the sleek hardcover and high-quality paper, just like its FF XIIII predecessor was. 

[broodwars]

I just got the game today, am almost three hours into it and so far the game is flawless

Alright, I just cleared the first area of the game, and it's been fun so far.  Hmm...a strange young man with spiky hair comes to the small tropical island home of the main character, tells them that someone important to them is waiting for them, and then they embark on an adventure to other time periods (worlds) through mysterious interdimensional gates.  Gee, where have I seen this story before.  Oh right, in ****ing KINGDOM HEARTS!   : : :   Geez, Toriyama, could you really think of no other way to start off your big redemption project than to blatantly rip-off the setup of a Kingdom Hearts game?

No, I'm really not that annoyed by the really obvious Kingdom Hearts similarities there.  I just find it amusing.   

But seriously, alegoicoe, you could find no flaws whatsoever in the opening few hours?      Alright, I have one big one for you: the completely baffling first hour of the game, where the game just drops you into two big story scenarios (one involving Lightning and the other Sarah) where NOTHING is set up or explained.  Maybe when the game saw I had played Final Fantasy XIII it just skipped the cutscene that set that up, but it's jarring to say the least just getting tossed into the Battle of Valhalla with Lightning fighting Caius when you have no idea what's going on.  Then the game flings the player to Sarah 3 years after FF XIII, except that apparently FF XIII's ending has changed and no one tells you HOW until later in the game.  What is with Square-Enix and their love of in media res openings where they don't explain **** until much later on?  It's not endearing, it's not clever, and it's certainly not good writing.

Now, over the course of a few hours they do explain the backstory a bit, but was it really necessary to confuse the player with unexplained retcons within moments of starting the game up for the first time?

[alegoicoe]

I meant technical flaws, its true of what your are saying, the story is bit messy, and the Historia Crux system takes some time to get used to, other than that i find the game very good, the monster collection is awesome once you get hang of with. Its also true that both Noel and Sarah are a bit shallow, but they are fun to play with, Im now in Sunleth and so far so good.

[Oblivion]

I refuse to acknowledge the existance of this game.

[broodwars]

So I've made a lot of progress lately with the game. I'm now in Chapter 4, after a long series of detours with quite a few sidequests on quite a few side areas, but especially the Archylte Steppe. On the Steppe, I actually managed to catch a Blue Chocobo on my first shot, which is amazing since I hadn't managed to catch any of the other colored Chocobos. Plus, the Blue Chocobo is the best Ravager in the game, so catching him was a big win. I spent a great deal of time grinding the materials to level him up to Level 99, and as a result I've just been steamrolling over nearly every enemy I run across. I still have to level some other Ravagers so I can infuse him with the Ravager spells and Passive Abilities he doesn't have. Of course, in the process of doing that, I've leveled Noel and Serah a lot, as both are about 3/4 of the way through their Crystarium grids. So yeah, smooth sailing. I even managed to take out the Gigantaurs on the Steppe with that crew before they could pull 10,000 Needles on me. ^_^
 
 Interestingly, on a whim I decided to go back and try to take on the giant flan in Ch. 3 again just to see if I could take him. You aren't technically supposed to beat him until after you beat the main game and get the Fragment Skill that unlocks Paradox Endings, but...I did, and it wasn't even that hard. And I got the amusing "Mog's Mischievous Plan" Paradox Ending (and 10,000 bonus CP) before I even beat the main game. Nice ^_^
 
 As for the story, it improved somewhat in Ch. 3 Part 2 with the campaign to stop the giant flan, but it's been very weak and convoluted so far. And apparently Square-Enix didn't learn from Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross that the point to showing alternate timelines is to show how people change depending on different circumstances. You unlock an "alternate timeline" (yeah, great job repairing the timeline, guys, by creating an alternate timeline) that's barely any different from the main one you previously visited. Lame, Square-Enix.
 
 Right now, I'm just watching some stuff with a friend while my controller's busy trying to win me a fragment and Playstation 3 trophy at the slot machines.

EDIT: Got the fragment (and the trophy). Surprisingly, I got it only a half hour into the auto-play, and I ended up with 2 Tier 3 Jackpots in a row to get enough money to almost buy all the fragments at the shop.  I'll have to come back later with more money for the last fragment in the shop.

[Morari]

broodwars, what would you consider a "well done town"?  It just seems like an odd complaint as towns have been a staple of RPGs forever and I've never noticed anything particularly offensive about any town in a Square game vs. some other RPG.  They always just seemed like typical RPG towns to me.  But I'm not a big RPG nut or anything so I don't have a wide sample to go on.

A well-done town IMO is something like Megaton in Fallout 3 or Omega in Mass Effect 2 (and to a much lesser extent the Citadel in Mass Effect 1, though that is tedious to get around): they're relatively small and easy to navigate, the town needs to have plenty of personality, and there are interesting quests to discover and do there.

Isn't that really just a different of genres? JRPGs don't generally care for interactivity or immersion. It's all about grandiose stories and flashy cut scenes. Western RPGs generally do hub levels better justify because they care more about the player. They're truer RPGs, as most have been heavily influenced by player and character driven experiences like Dungeons & Dragons. By contrast, the overwhelming majority of your JRPGs are little more than stories on rails... slow combat and the perpetual grind does not make for a very good break from the monotony.

[broodwars]

Well, I'm at the end of the game now, with all time periods unlocked and only the final level left to clear.  My Blue Chocobo has become a god since I infused him with the remaining Fire and Thunder spells he was missing, as well as a passive ability that boosts his stats when out with other Ravagers (my favorite paradigm).  To my relief, I did manage to get the 99,999 damage trophy with Noel when fighting the boss of the Vile Peaks 10 AD stage.  I've also managed to get 3 Paradox Endings before their time (including the one for beating a fully armed and operational Atlas).  I have 144/160 Fragments now, but it's going to take a while to get the rest of them due to the "kill one of every monster" Fragment.  Plus, I still want to capture and train some Sentinel/Saboteur/Synergist/Medic Chocobos (Twilight Odin will be my Commando) before I dare take on the bonus bosses and some of the more difficult special enemies like the Long Gui.

I will say this, though: the storytelling in this game has gradually improved since the beginning.  Although some sequences go on a bit too long, there are some genuinely effective storytelling sequences from the middle to the end of the game.  I just sat through this 5 minute exposition dump from Lightning that should have been given at the beginning of the game rather than the end, because it shows the how and why Lightning was fighting in Valhalla.  I don't like that this game's story revolves around a god that has never been mentioned before this game (Etro), unless she's somehow in FF XIII's datalogs.  Apparently it wasn't worth mentioning her in FF XIII, a game whose story revolved around the main villain trying to commit genocide to summon God!

[broodwars]

Well, I beat the game yesterday, and honestly I'm not feeling the total outrage and betrayal a lot of people seem to be having over the ending (or lack thereof). Yes, it's a blatant setup for a Final Fantasy XIII-3, and despite Square-Enix's insistence otherwise that's pretty much what it has to be. There's just way too much big **** that happens in the ending to solve by DLC. It would have to be the most epic DLC ever made, and I'm betting Square-Enix still wants to get one more game made with this expensive-to-develop engine before they finally retire it. But despite it being a blatant tease for another game, I'm actually kind of ok with that. I really liked the steps forward that XIII-2 took with the gameplay, and I thought the story told overall was a complete story. There will be DLC that covers more of what Lightning; Snow; and Sazh were up to, but while it's nice background information I don't see how (aside from Lightning's story) that really impacts the overall Noel/Serah story enough for me to call it an incomplete story. Plus, I thought it was a natural end to the story that was being told, and I wouldn't mind playing another XIII game.
 
 No, what makes me call this an incomplete game is how completely shameless Square-Enix is with the DLC for this game. There is literally nothing you can do in the Colisseum without DLC, and most of Serendipity is just a sign saying to come back with DLC. It's disgraceful, though I will probably buy a lot of it for the sidestory content.
 
 In any case, I'm just currently acquiring my ultimate monsters and leveling them up so I can take on what little post-game content remains. I already have my godlike Blue Chocobo, I've just recently maxed-out my Green Chocobo so I finally have a competent medic; and Twilight Odin's taking an eternity to level-up. I still need to acquire my Silver Chocobo for my ultimate Sentinel; Black Chocobo for my ultimate Saboteur; and Purple Chocobo for my ultimate Synergist. I have 151/160 Fragments, and Serah/Noel are within about 10 levels of maxing out their Crystarium grids.
 
 Funny story, though: I ran into a Metal Gigantuar on the Steppe earlier today, and the thing totally kicked my ass with 10,000 Needles. I was barely scratching him before he did that, but I did manage to trigger Serah's Ultima Bow Special before he unleashed it. Amazingly enough, the Ultima Bow killed him just as he killed me, and not only did I get credit for a victory but I also got his crystal. Nice!

[broodwars]

I picked up the Lightning DLC today, which opens up another location on the Historia Crux (Colisseum - AD) where you can fight her and her former squad commander. Both characters have an absurdly low drop rate on their monster crystals: only 7%. I did manage to get Lightning's, though (after my 5th run-through of the fight. Thankfully, it's pretty easy compared to the cheap S.O.B.s I've been fighting lately like Yomi. WHY, Square-Enix? WHY do I have to kill that bastard again?! He was hard enough in the last XIII game!), and she's my new Ravager (replacing my Blue Chocobo). She's a great Ravager, though unfortunately she can't Paradigm Shift (why not, Square-Enix? She does during your battle with her, as does Lt. Amodar). Her Feral Link is really hard to do the QTE on, though, and if you want to make her good you have to prepare to do infuse most of her spells and a good 25-35% HP boost to cover her surprisingly low max health (6,000). It is good to see her in my party alongside my other characters, though, and her max level is 13 (naturally) so she levels up really quickly). She's not the best Ravager in the game, in all likelyhood, but I'll take her over random monsters.

[broodwars]

Well, I've now Platinum-ed Final Fantasy XIII-2, which is my 50th Platinum (which, gratifyingly, took 30 less hours to achieve than its predecessor, and was a lot more enjoyable to get). Wow, that "secret ending" you unlock when you get all 160 Fragments is not worth the time and effort it takes to unlock it. It's just a 30 second coda after the ending credits with a certain character gloating. I was hoping for at least some expansion on the existing ending, but apparently that's destined to either be DLC or a FF XIII-3.
 
Overall, I had a lot of fun with FF XIII-2, despite its problems. I think the story was a definite downgrade from XIII and I would have preferred a real party to having monsters sub in for the 3rd party member, but overall the game works very well. It's unfortunate that most people are going to just ignore this game because XIII was so divisive.