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Joker 2 (mostly spoiler-free).

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UncleBob:
Okay, so I really liked the first Joker movie.  It wasn't "comic accurate" (whatever that even means anymore), but it was really well done and I really enjoyed it.  That said, I didn't "connect" with the Joker in this movie, I'm didn't see him as a hero or an icon.  It was just a fun movie.

After the terrible reception J2 received, I hadn't gone out of my way to see it.

I finally watched it though... means... tonight and... I liked it.

It wasn't amazing, but, aside from that one scene (which, if you've seen it or had it spoiled, you know), I think it was really well done.  I really enjoyed what Phoenix and Gaga brought to the table.  I didn't even mind the twist ending.

I don't want to say too much to spoil it, but... if you liked the original, give it a chance.

Khushrenada:
Man, fun isn't a word I'd use for the first movie. I've seen people use grim, dreary, depressing or intentionally off-putting which I'd agree with way more. People still seem to sum it up and criticize it as being a weird pastiche of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy and the film as some kind of Scorsese Karaoke. I definitely get that although that was more from the story. The direction wasn't exactly what I'd call a copy of Scorsese.

Anyways, all of that is just to say that I've never felt like revisiting the film or rewatching it. We're just watching Mr. Fleck whose in a tough situation in life, one in which he seems to be contemplating suicide quite a bit because of it, and the way it was presented and told just didn't feel like it was a story worth going back to. I think it's been that memory in my mind and the feelings that first movie brings up which has been a big reason why I've been indifferent about seeing this second movie. It's like, do I really want to revisit that kind of world again especially since the trailers seemed to indicate it would still be that same emotional tone.

The one thing I will give much credit and praise to the first Joker movie is its ending particularly the talk show interview. As much as the movie is playing up that Fleck seems to be preparing to kill himself in front of everyone on live TV, I was fully expecting him to use it on the host or audience based on The Dark Knight Rises. However, even with that expectation, the ending still comes as a sort of shock and surprise and the whole way it plays out felt to me like it was worth the price of admission. Even know, 5 years later, I still think about that ending scene a lot and it's stuck in my brain which is a sign that it did something right as there are hundreds of other movies that I just don't think about after seeing them or have forgotten much about them. If someone asks me if I'd recommend that first Joker movie, I'm torn because, overall, there's a lot I've forgotten about the rest of the film because the story was so-so for much of it and certain things I could see coming like the love interest subplot. And yet, I would say it's worth watching because I don't think the ending would have the same impact without seeing most of that build-up to that final confrontation if you were to just skip ahead to it. Because of the lasting power of that ending is the main reason why I'd say it is worth a watch but there's also a lot of other stuff I'd want to recommend to someone over that movie. It's a mixed bag.

With the majorly negative reviews of the sequel I've seen from critics and audiences along with my mostly dour feelings about the first movie, it kind of felt like a relief that it likely wouldn't be in any Oscar race this year and I could sort of give myself permission to skip it. With how weak this year seems like it will be thanks to the Writer's and Actor's strikes last year, I wondered if this sequel might end up in the Oscar race again. Thus, I was preparing to sort of see it out of duty rather than any real desire or enthusiasm to revisit this cinematic world. With all the news of it bombing at the box office and picking apart what went wrong, it seems to me like it won't really be appearing in any best of the year lists either so I can't say I plan to see it anytime soon if at all.

On the other hand, I actually did contemplate seeing it yesterday since it was cheap ticket Tuesday and to see just how bad it actually was. And also because there's just not much else I see in theatres right now that's of much interest to me. It just seems like it's a dire time for the box office and movie theatres with what's being offered and shown right now and looking ahead to what's coming does not inspire confidence of better things to come. Gladiator 2 and Moana 2. Two big shrugs from me. Kraven the Hunter and Mufasa: The Lion King? Pass! Sonic the Hedgehog 3? I've still yet to see either of the first two. Checking out what some people are considering could be Oscar and Award Season contenders, I can't say I'm too excited from what is showing up on such lists. Right now, Wicked might be the top film for me simply because I've long been curious what that musical might be like. (Also find it weird that it's going to be a Part One of Two which lessens the enthusiasm.) The Brutalist might be up my alley. Seems like it might be a throwback to 50s and 60s Hollywood epics with an intermission even included. But overall, it seems like a weak year and slim pickings from what is being made. Ironically, this could actually play into Joker 2's favor. Most likely, it will get pulled from theatres pretty soon to make way for this new stuff, whatever its ultimate quality may be, as per usual for films doing poorly at the box office. Yet, I think if it were to actually keep running throughout November and start of December (albeit with fewer screens and showings), it might actually see a steady enough stream of customers simply because people may be curious to see just how bad it actually is and because it still seems more compelling over the competition and other stuff coming out.

ThePerm:
I really liked it. I think it is too esoteric for most people though. Not in a comic book movie type way. You might see more in it if you went to art school. It helps that the type of movie it is I'm in the venn diagram for. I don't normally like musicals, but I do already like the type of music in the movie, and then I'm a Batman fan. And I like dark **** and horror movies. Prison movies. Court Dramas. The movie never dragged for me. It moved along with my adhd. It's going to be a cult classic though.

I also had a ton of discussions on forums about a specific scene about how people are traumatized so badly by the scene that they are remembering it not how it actually goes on screen. There is a lot of blank filling in the scene and they are remembering it as way worse than what actually appears on the screen. I can see how they got there, but to me it feels like their imagination jumped to conclusions. It's one of those cases like the first movie where Arthur was in Sophies apartment and everyone assumed he killed her, but none of that was actually on the screen and could actually explained away as simply being a cut where people filled in the blanks. For the first movie the Cinematagrapher later confirmed that nah she didn't die, they even filmed an additional scene with her, they just cut it because they wanted to have the film always focusing on Arthur. And of course she showed up again in the second movie This movie has a cut like that during a dark and intense moment. And people imaginations went dark. I'm kind of sick of discussing it though.

And the way the part 2 ends:  I fully expected this ending. It wasn't a surprise.

As far as needing to watch it at the cinema goes... It comes out on streaming on october 29th. The first movie came out in 2019, which for me was like the last hurrah of movies I ended up watching multiple times in a cinema. I watched Joker three times. I watched it on my own, because I do that with all Batman movies. I watched it with a group, and then with another friend. I feel like I was kind of a tapdancer salesman for the first movie, and I was just more lazy with this one. This one is a harder sale. And I don't want to drag my friends to the cinema to watch a movie they aren't going to get.

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