Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Ian Sane]

Twilight Princess is only realistic in the sense that it has a graphic style that somewhat resembles real life.  The idea being that if skeletons were coming at you with swords and shields it would look something like this.  Though even then there is slight anime look to it.  But then Metal Gear Solid and Soul Calibur have a slight anime look to them as well.  It appears to be a Japanese developer thing, which I prefer.  Boring looking realistic games are usually made by American developers.  But the important thing is a realistic style does not mean being devoid of anything spectacular and wonderous.  Link is still in a fantasy world with all sorts of unique scenery that does not exist in the real world.

The cel-shaded Zelda looks like a cartoon.  I think that's the key difference.  If both Cube Zelda games were made into films one would be animated and the other would not be.  Preferring the realistic style is no different than having the option of a film being made as a cartoon or with real actors and you want real actors.  Doesn't mean that the real-life movie will be devoid of fantasy elements.

And I can't stand when anyone suggests that Twilight Princess's shortcomings were a direct response to what Zelda fans wanted.  No one asked for the same exact areas that we already visited in Ocarina of Time.  All anyone said is that they didn't like the cartoon look, didn't feel it fit Zelda and wanted a style more like the one that Nintendo themselves presented at Spaceworld.  NO ONE said "I want Ocarina of Time 1.5".  That was Nintendo's choice alone.  It is not a restriction of the graphics style or anything like that.  And only a smug ASSHOLE points at it and says "this is what you wanted."

If a fan of the cel-shaded style didn't like the DS games because of the controls I wouldn't act like that was the game he wanted because I recognize that the graphics style and the controls are unrelated.  The crappy dungeon you have to go through every time in Phantom Hourglass isn't a pro for the realistic style side.  It's merely a game design choice Nintendo made that they could have made for ANY Zelda game regardless of what it looks like.

[Luigi Dude]

And I can't stand when anyone suggests that Twilight Princess's shortcomings were a direct response to what Zelda fans wanted.  No one asked for the same exact areas that we already visited in Ocarina of Time.  All anyone said is that they didn't like the cartoon look, didn't feel it fit Zelda and wanted a style more like the one that Nintendo themselves presented at Spaceworld.  NO ONE said "I want Ocarina of Time 1.5".  That was Nintendo's choice alone.  It is not a restriction of the graphics style or anything like that.  And only a smug ASSHOLE points at it and says "this is what you wanted."

Did you ever visit sites like Gamefaqs back in 2003?  A lot of the haters on these sites did want a Zelda like you described.  Hell, back in 2003, I remember a lot of people saying they wished Nintendo would just remake Ocarina of Time instead of make Wind Waker 2 

Well during 2003, Aonuma was working on Wind Waker 2 until the end of the year when the higher ups at Nintendo had him cancel the project in favor of making a realistic Zelda to appeal more to the North American fanbase.  Believe it or not, Nintendo does have employees who lurk the larger internet message boards in order to find out what the fans like and don't like, and send that data to the higher ups.

Well if Aonuma wanted to find out what the America fans wanted, I'd image he'd look at what the people on the American boards were saying.  And since back in 2003, these sites were filled with people wanting either Ocarina of Time 2 or a Ocarina Remake, it's not hard to see why Twilight Princess was made as close to Ocarina of Time as possible.

Just because you didn't want Twilight Princess to be a Ocarina sequel, doesn't mean there wasn't many more who did.  And since the fanboys that wanted Ocarina of Time 2/Remake outnumbered everyone else, those were the fanboys who's voice ended up being heard the loudest in the end.

[Ian Sane]

Did you ever visit sites like Gamefaqs back in 2003?  A lot of the haters on these sites did want a Zelda like you described.  Hell, back in 2003, I remember a lot of people saying they wished Nintendo would just remake Ocarina of Time instead of make Wind Waker 2 

Well during 2003, Aonuma was working on Wind Waker 2 until the end of the year when the higher ups at Nintendo had him cancel the project in favor of making a realistic Zelda to appeal more to the North American fanbase.  Believe it or not, Nintendo does have employees who lurk the larger internet message boards in order to find out what the fans like and don't like, and send that data to the higher ups.

Well if Aonuma wanted to find out what the America fans wanted, I'd image he'd look at what the people on the American boards were saying.  And since back in 2003, these sites were filled with people wanting either Ocarina of Time 2 or a Ocarina Remake, it's not hard to see why Twilight Princess was made as close to Ocarina of Time as possible.

Just because you didn't want Twilight Princess to be a Ocarina sequel, doesn't mean there wasn't many more who did.  And since the fanboys that wanted Ocarina of Time 2/Remake outnumbered everyone else, those were the fanboys who's voice ended up being heard the loudest in the end.

I don't visit the Gamefaqs boards because the people who post there are idiots.  When deciding what to do regarding the next Zelda game who would you listen to?  People who just spout off "MORE LIKE CELDA!!! M I RITE?" and make impulsive immature outbursts with no thought put behind them or someone who makes an effort to like the game despite the visuals and merely states that they would prefer the realistic style and makes well-thought-out criticisms about the game with some sort of mature explanation behind them?  The people who just blurted out "I WANT MORE OOT" are idiots and if Nintendo listened to them instead of, for example, people on THIS board or the Penny Arcade board or other places where people have rational discussion, then they're idiots as well.  Nintendo might as well be making decisions based on YouTube comments.
 
When listening to one's fanbase one must be smart enough to read into what people REALLY want.  No one TRULY wants more Ocarina of Time.  They THINK they do because they don't think enough about it and don't understand why they like Ocarina of Time in the first place.  They just know they like it so they ask for more.  But what they REALLY want is the feeling that OoT gave them and so much of that experience was the fact that OoT was such a vastly different game than anything else available at the time.  The newness of it was key.  So I would say that Nintendo still didn't give anybody what they wanted because they failed to interpret what the issue really was.  They catered to people who didn't know why they were complaining in the first place.
 
Nintendo could have just given us Super Mario 64 2 in response to Super Mario Sunshine backlash but they didn't and we got a better game as a result.  They listened to complainers who never even gave the game a chance regarding Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime Hunters was the result.  You have to filter the responses to determine who is expressing an informed opinion and who is just being a close-minded idiot spouting off whatever immediately comes to mind.
 
Though it probably doesn't help that those who preferred Wind Waker are often very defensive about it and are quick to lash out at all criticism of it, including that which has nothing to do with the graphics like the sailing and the Triforce fetch-quest.  I feel that hurts that side of the argument and gives the impression that Wind Waker praise is a fanatical response to criticism against Nintendo.  So Nintendo has to wade through one group of people who think Wind Waker is completely perfect in every way and another group that says it sucks but can provide no real substancial reason why it sucks.  And buried within that are the people with rational opinions, who Nintendo should have focused on but didn't.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Rational is of the minority.  Nintendo's not going to hear the minority, so tough luck.

[Caterkiller]

If that was the real Reggie who comes around here then we would be heard. This would have the be the best site for Nintendo to visit. Only like 20 of us really discuss anything about the games, and it's all gold! I speak as if I go to many other gaming forums, which I don't but my point still stands. We are the only truely aware people on the video game internet. Well not even that, the world!

If that really is you Reggie let the world know how we feel!

How come we keep getting these bits on Zelda when absolutely nothing has been seen but art? And Metroid had a full blown trailer and we aint heard squat since?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Cuz all that Metroid and Zelda stuff from E3 was totally made-up.  They didn't have a real game to show yet for either case.  Non-Nintendo Japanese dev studios are experts at PROMOTIONAL TEASERS.

[Stratos]

Cuz all that Metroid and Zelda stuff from E3 was totally made-up.  They didn't have a real game to show yet for either case.  Non-Nintendo Japanese dev studios are experts at PROMOTIONAL TEASERS.

AKA most Sony devs? I remember there was quite the clamor over Killzone 2 among other 'big reveal' PS3 trailers in the past.

[Mop it up]

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Zelda needs to change? I recently finished The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, and I didn't find it to be stale or uninteresting at all despite how familiar everything is. And I'm a bit worried about what this "radical change" might be that they have in store for this game, as I haven't always been too thrilled with some of the ideas they've come up with. An example would be the sailing in The Wind Waker. It was fun to sail up to a new island for the first time or go treasure hunting in small doses, but all of the back and forth just became tedious and that Triforce hunt was lame. For me, a game doesn't need to do anything fresh or innovative to be enjoyable, it just has to be well-made.

My sister made a point which I thought was interesting. She thinks that the game over-explains some things and passes over other important details. Every time you collect bombs, the game explains how to equip and use them. Is anybody really going to forget how to set items with how frequently it is done? On the opposite side, there was a point in the game where there is a fence blocking a path, and you have to roll into it to knock it down. At no point in the game does it explain that you can roll into something to cause an effect. Those are the kinds of little things I hope they iron out with this one.

[mac<censored>]

Zelda does change quite a bit from game to game, even if it keeps much of the formula as well.  The people whining that it doesn't are obsessing over the bits that stay the same while ignoring the huge parts that don't...

You'd have to be a complete moron to think TP is just an "OOT retread", and yet people keep moaning that...

I put it down to "Matt Casmassina syndrome" -- some people just love to whine, and they'll latch onto anything that they think gives them an opening to do so.

[ThePerm]

all zelda is

is a game about running around breaking into peoples houses, stealing their money
going into a forest, fire, water, and occasionally horror themed dungeon
finding items to get into dungeons
going into a dungeon to find that all the doors are locked except one and that you have to go to the only unlocked door to find a key to another room
fighting monsters for keys
fighting monsters for items
becoming a part of a strange fantastical race by helping them
searching for bugs
searching for hearts
searching for secret caves
searching for fairies
horseback riding
archery
hook-shotting
boomeranging
sling shotting
fencing
floating with chickens, and if the are no chickens in the game magical leaf parachutes
fighting big monsters
bottles

and of course     

[King of Twitch]

That was beautiful

[EasyCure]

do i recall correctly, there were no octorocks in TP where there?

THEY BROKE TRADITION! TP WAS MORE RADICALLY CHANGED THAN WE THOUGHT!

[BeautifulShy]

I think there was Octrocks in Twilight Princess. It was in Zoras River and in the Lake as well.

[EasyCure]

can you supply a pic to refresh my memory? i really don't remember any, or atleast don't remember blocking their stones with my sheild..

[Stogi]

They aren't in TP

proof: http://www.zeldawiki.org/Category:Enemies_in_The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Twilight_Princess

[BeautifulShy]

Yeah I was mistaken. Guess that is what happens when you don't replay the game for a while.

[Peachylala]

I don't miss TP at all.

AT. ALL.

[mac<censored>]

I don't miss TP at all.
AT. ALL.

Yes, we know you didn't like TP.  Because you've said so about 8,000 times on this thread alone.

We get it.

[TJ Spyke]

You don't miss the best Zelda game ever? I'm not joking, Twilight Princess is the game that anyone who calls themselves a Zelda fan NEEDS to play, still one of the best Wii games. I always hoped that Link would hook up with Ilia at the end of the game, even though I knew it was unlikely because Nintendo will always have him linked to Zelda.

[EasyCure]

They aren't in TP

proof: http://www.zeldawiki.org/Category:Enemies_in_The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Twilight_Princess

I KNEW IT TP HAD RADICAL CHANGE FOR THE SERIES!

[King of Twitch]

"Nintendo will always have him linked to Zelda."

Please don't say that, it makes Malon jealous

[Peachylala]

I don't miss TP at all.
AT. ALL.

Yes, we know you didn't like TP.  Because you've said so about 8,000 times on this thread alone.

We get it.

HATE IT x1000

i don't want to abuse copy and paste, they have weak self-esteem.

It's right up there with MGS4 (and 3).

[Stogi]

I thought TP was masterful. The enemies, the temples and the sidequests were all top notch. Plus it's by far the longest of any Zelda (I think it took me 70 hours to beat the first time through).

[ThePerm]

Survey: Which system did you play Twilight Princess on, and did you like it?

I have a strategy guide for both games, and it is funny comparing some of the level designs. Right now im going thtrough the 3d Zelda games, and getting all the items before I move on to the next game. I'm almost done with Oot, i got all the hearts, but i need to get the rest of the skultildas. MM is next and then Windwaker, then Phantom Hourglass, and finally Twilight Princess for the replay.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Survey A:
Wii: it was good, but I lost interest shortly after the sky temple.