Author Topic: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...  (Read 62331 times)

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Offline UncleBob

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So you'd prefer to be charged for something you may or may not need?

A television is required to operate a Wii.  Should Nintendo pack a TV in with each unit?
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Ian, how can you possibly say the DSi was a scam? It is no more of a scam than any other new version of a system. Was Game Boy Pocket a scam? The PSOne, PS2 Slim, or PS3 Slim scams? NES 2? SNES 2? DS Lite? At least DSi added new features like a camera (albeit a shitty one) and DSiWare.
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Offline Ceric

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So you'd prefer to be charged for something you may or may not need?

A television is required to operate a Wii.  Should Nintendo pack a TV in with each unit?
Should you car come with a battery?
In your world no.

Stop being stupid UncleBob.  That is a flawed example and you know it.

Your Printer shouldn't come with Ink. You bought it to be a Coffee Table Accessory Right?
Your M&M Package doesn't need M&M in it.  You Paid for the Package of M&M. You don't need the M&M to Enjoy it.
Your Game Case shouldn't come with a Game.  I know you wanted to just have an alternate cover for the Games you already own.

All flawed examples.
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Offline UncleBob

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In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.
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Offline tendoboy1984

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In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.


He mentioned ink, not a cable.


But that's completely different than a handheld device being sold without a necessary power cord for charging.
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Offline UncleBob

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In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.


He mentioned ink, not a cable.


But that's completely different than a handheld device being sold without a necessary power cord for charging.

Please read the thread before commenting.
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Offline Ceric

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In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.
*shrug* Consider a USB cable that can run a Printer is at most a dollar.  I rather just spend the extra Dollar.
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Offline Adrock

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Adrock, if you sell your 3DS to your brother and buy a 3DS XL, how would you already have an AC adapter?  Doesn't HE need one as well?
As previously stated many times on these boards including this topic. I still have my DSi and its charger. I already have the charger. If the NA XL didn't come with a charger, I'd still be all set.

For households with multiple 3DS systems, they could conceivably make do with 1 charger. People share chargers for a variety of devices from phones to laptops all the time. Sometimes chargers get lost or aren't pet proofed and a single charger is all that's available. It's less convenient, but it does happen. NOA made a judgement call to include the charger, probably so they don't have to explain that it's sold separately. I don't think it's a coincidence that DSi XL launched for $190 and 3DS XL is launching at $200 while DSi and 3DS were both $170 (after the 3DS price drop). One way or another, consumers will be paying for that charger whether or not it's included or sold separately.

Nintendo isn't asking or requiring anyone to double dip. That's up to the consumer. Even if my brother wasn't buying my 3DS, I would have still traded up to the 3DS XL because the larger screens matter to me as someone who treats handhelds as home consoles. With each new model, I weigh my options. There's no scam. Nintendo isn't tricking anyone. I bought a DSi, but I didn't upgrade to a DSi XL.

Offline UncleBob

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In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.
*shrug* Consider a USB cable that can run a Printer is at most a dollar.  I rather just spend the extra Dollar.

If only it worked out that way. I recall selling printers that were similar in specs (different brands though, so that could make a difference).  Some advertised that they came with the USB Cable... but were more than the similar-spec'd printers that didn't come with the cable AND a cable purchased by itself.

Personally, I'm still ticked the 3DS came with a 2GB SD card.  It's currently sitting in a 3DS case (with my AR Cards) and will likely never be used again.
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Offline broodwars

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The problem I have with the printer analogy is that a USB cable is a universal cord. Many electronic devices use them for purposes ranging from electrical charging to data transfer, so the possibility of the user already having one (even if they don't already own a printer) is fairly high.  And even if you don't already have one, USB cables are pretty cheap and easy to acquire.  By contrast, the 3DS cable is a proprietary cable: the only cords that can swap in for it are those that came with other Nintendo handhelds, which users probably get rid of when they sell-off their handhelds to acquire the latest model.  Most users aren't likely going to have an extra Nintendo charging cable just lying around.

If the 3DS used a standardized cord for charging, I could understand them not including one with the unit to cut down on costs.  But this device requires a cord only Nintendo can provide, so I think it's ultimately Nintendo's responsibility to include the cable with the 3DS XL.  At least the Nintendo branches outside Japan seem to understand this.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 06:37:12 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Even for those who already own a 3DS or DSi and thus already have the AC adapter, they still need a 2nd AC adapter because odds are if they are buying an XL they will want to trade in the old 3DS at Gamestop or give it to a friend or something, and Gamestop will demand that you surrender the AC adapter along with it for the trade in.. and the same goes if you give the old one to a friend or whatever. They are going to want that AC Adapter.

If people are planning on throwing their old 3DS in the trash with the purchase of the XL, then sure they could just use the old AC adapter and its no problem, but if they're going to trade it in, sell it, or give it away then the AC Adapter needs to go with it. So either they do without an adapter, or the new owners of the old 3DS do without it. Ideally NEITHER should go without it, because every system should come with its own adapter.
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Offline Ian Sane

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I want to know which of you bought a 3DS and thought "****!  I can't believe they made me buy another AC adapter when I already have one!"  No one on the face of the planet thought of this until the almighty infallible Nintendo used this is an excuse for penny pinching.

I never even thought of this as some unfair mandatory extra cost.  My Gamecube's AV cables never got used because I just used my existing N64 ones and swapped the connection to whichever system I was playing at the time (no need to eat up two inputs on the TV).  At the time I just thought to myself "well I guess I don't actually need these cables then" and kind of laughed it off.  I wasn't outraged that I was forced to buy them.  I can't imagine the cost is high enough that it would initiate any change in the MSRP.  Of COURSE the Cube was going to come with those cables.  What if I didn't own an N64?  It needs to just work out of the box, right?

And as Chozo pointed out these aren't standardized cords that you can buy from anyone.  Nintendo is the one selling it.  Seems like somewhat of a conflict of interest to not include something most buyers are going to need when you're the only retailer they can buy the adapter from.  I'm sure that's just a coincedence and not some plan to get an extra purchase, presumably with it's own mark-up and profit margin.

I consider the DSi a scam over something like the DS Lite because it offers some new functionality in DSiWare so that existing DS users are missing out on actual content but the upgrade is not so significant to truly be worth buying a new system when the real successor was almost certainly due to be released soon afterwards.  I think it was a borderline worthless upgrade just to get DS owners to buy an unnecessary purchase prior to the 3DS coming out.  To me it was like if the N64 expansion pack was actually the N64+ and you had to buy a whole new system to play the like three games that needed it.  It's the old Greatest Hits album with one new song to get die-hards to pay full price for a sliver of new content.  At least the DS Lite or the PS2 Slim don't have new exclusive content.  It's just a physical redesign.  No one would ever feel any pressure to buy such a minor upgrade to get access to any content they would otherwise have unavailable to them.  The DSi has just enough new content to entice an existing DS owner to upgrade but not enough to actually make that worthwhile.  I think Nintendo did that intentionally and that's why it's a scam.  They wanted you to buy a new DS for essentially no reason.

Offline Kairon

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They wanted you to buy a new DS for essentially no reason.

This is what I was thinking while I lovingly cradled my DS Phat in my hands while so many others rushed to buy a DS Lite.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Ian, new features and new content ARE reasons to buy it. If anything, people buying a DS Lite were being scammed because it was inferior. You could also play all of your DS games on the DSi. Also, the PS2 Slim was a scam because it actually had fewer games (due to not being able to use the modem) and some accessories not working. The DSi XL, it could be argued, was worthless. The DSi though WAS worthwhile. I for one skipped the DS Lite and went right from the DS to the DSi and was glad I had waited.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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They wanted you to buy a new DS for essentially no reason.

This is what I was thinking while I lovingly cradled my DS Phat in my hands while so many others rushed to buy a DS Lite.

I was one of the original DS Phat owners and just like you I passed on the Lite, because the Phat was good enough for me.... but then the DSi came out, and I sold my Phat and bought it immediately. I wouldn't say that's the worst mistake I've ever made, but it definitely was a mistake and I regret it every time I think about it.

It wouldn't have been so bad if the 3DS hadn't come out just a year or two later. This is one of the reasons why I haven't bought a 3DS thus far. I felt duped and cheated with the DSi just like how Sega fans who bought the 32X and Sega CD must have felt years ago. The DSi wasn't quite as bad as the 32x, but it is a similar situation. Sega lost a lot of loyal fans from the 32X betrayal. Nintendo hasn't lost me yet, but between that and the Wii I'm kinda on the fence right now. Of course, petty things like forcing people to buy AC adapters separately aren't helping either, of course it is a minor thing, but minor things do add up.

So because of the DSi I decided to pass on the 3DS, and that turned out pretty well because I avoided the scam of being overcharged $80 to be an early adopter, and unsurprisingly we now have a new and better 3DS revision. See how waiting can pay off? But I don't think the XL is good enough. I have a feeling there will be at least one more revision before all is said and done, and my fingers are crossed that this one will have dual circle pads. If it does then I will buy it immediately, and I will know that I did the right thing by waiting.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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You could also play all of your DS games on the DSi.

Even Guitar Hero?
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Offline Ceric

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Personally, I'm still ticked the 3DS came with a 2GB SD card.  It's currently sitting in a 3DS case (with my AR Cards) and will likely never be used again.
Yeah, considering the 3DS has built in memory as well that is something I would have considered optional.
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Offline Adrock

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I still don't really understand the controversy of the AC adapter. Once again, consumers will be paying for the AC adapter one way or another. Nintendo even lowered the price of the AC adapter in Japan and they didn't have to do that so I can't see this being Nintendo pushing profit margins. They're not forcing consumers to buy something they might not need or want, even though the hardware requires it. This move is for people who might already have one. If the AC adapter was included in the box, Nintendo would just mark up the box slightly to compensate for it being there. It probably comes down to the same price, just in 2 separate boxes. I admit, it's a strange strategy especially since I personally don't really want or need the SD card and if I did, I probably wouldn't waste my time on 2GB-4GB, but that's all it is.
I felt duped and cheated with the DSi just like how Sega fans who bought the 32X and Sega CD must have felt years ago.
No disrespect but I don't see how you can rightly say this. First, it was your decision and yours alone. No one put a gun to your head. Second, you're an avid reader of videogame news sites and a long time member of a Nintendo message board. How did you get duped and/or cheated? You should have known exactly what it was and it's your fault if you didn't. Nintendo never once said or claimed that DSi was the successor to the the DS Lite or original model. I can understand buyer's remorse, but that's not Nintendo's fault. You weighed the pros and cons. The choice was ultimately yours. Being duped or cheated would be if you bought a DSi and opened the box and it was anything but a DSi inside. You bought a DSi and you got a DSi.
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I avoided the scam of being overcharged $80 to be an early adopter, and unsurprisingly we now have a new and better 3DS revision.
If a marked up product is a scam, then EVERY product is a scam and you should just avoid buying things forever. Nintendo set a price. They didn't plan a price drop. They misjudged the market and paid dearly for it (as they should, that's how business works). Nintendo is still paying for that mistake. On top of that, they offered free games to early adopters and they didn't have to. Those people already paid the price of entry. The Ambassador titles were simply an act of good will. I bought a Gamecube at launch, but I didn't get anything after Nintendo dropped the price 6-7 months later, nor did I expect to. I paid what I felt was a fair price. A scam requires an intent to deceive. "Here's the product and this is what it costs." What part of that is a deception? Marking the price up? That's not deceptive. They priced 3DS based on what they thought most people were willing to pay and they were wrong. Uh-oh, Spaghetti-O. They fucked up. It happens. That's not a scam. That's just fucking up. Every company has done that.

Also, better is a matter of perspective. A friend of mine really couldn't care less about the 3DS XL. He thinks it's too big and is worried about the larger screens will make the graphics fuzzy.

Offline tendoboy1984

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I still don't really understand the controversy of the AC adapter. Once again, consumers will be paying for the AC adapter one way or another. Nintendo even lowered the price of the AC adapter in Japan and they didn't have to do that so I can't see this being Nintendo pushing profit margins. They're not forcing consumers to buy something they might not need or want, even though the hardware requires it. This move is for people who might already have one. If the AC adapter was included in the box, Nintendo would just mark up the box slightly to compensate for it being there. It probably comes down to the same price, just in 2 separate boxes. I admit, it's a strange strategy especially since I personally don't really want or need the SD card and if I did, I probably wouldn't waste my time on 2GB-4GB, but that's all it is.
I felt duped and cheated with the DSi just like how Sega fans who bought the 32X and Sega CD must have felt years ago.
No disrespect but I don't see how you can rightly say this. First, it was your decision and yours alone. No one put a gun to your head. Second, you're an avid reader of videogame news sites and a long time member of a Nintendo message board. How did you get duped and/or cheated? You should have known exactly what it was and it's your fault if you didn't. Nintendo never once said or claimed that DSi was the successor to the the DS Lite or original model. I can understand buyer's remorse, but that's not Nintendo's fault. You weighed the pros and cons. The choice was ultimately yours. Being duped or cheated would be if you bought a DSi and opened the box and it was anything but a DSi inside. You bought a DSi and you got a DSi.
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I avoided the scam of being overcharged $80 to be an early adopter, and unsurprisingly we now have a new and better 3DS revision.
If a marked up product is a scam, then EVERY product is a scam and you should just avoid buying things forever. Nintendo set a price. They didn't plan a price drop. They misjudged the market and paid dearly for it (as they should, that's how business works). Nintendo is still paying for that mistake. On top of that, they offered free games to early adopters and they didn't have to. Those people already paid the price of entry. The Ambassador titles were simply an act of good will. I bought a Gamecube at launch, but I didn't get anything after Nintendo dropped the price 6-7 months later, nor did I expect to. I paid what I felt was a fair price. A scam requires an intent to deceive. "Here's the product and this is what it costs." What part of that is a deception? Marking the price up? That's not deceptive. They priced 3DS based on what they thought most people were willing to pay and they were wrong. Uh-oh, Spaghetti-O. They fucked up. It happens. That's not a scam. That's just fucking up. Every company has done that.

Also, better is a matter of perspective. A friend of mine really couldn't care less about the 3DS XL. He thinks it's too big and is worried about the larger screens will make the graphics fuzzy.


Thank you for using logic and reasoning. Too many people don't utilize those traits.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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No disrespect but I don't see how you can rightly say this. First, it was your decision and yours alone. No one put a gun to your head. Second, you're an avid reader of videogame news sites and a long time member of a Nintendo message board. How did you get duped and/or cheated? You should have known exactly what it was and it's your fault if you didn't. Nintendo never once said or claimed that DSi was the successor to the the DS Lite or original model. I can understand buyer's remorse, but that's not Nintendo's fault. You weighed the pros and cons. The choice was ultimately yours. Being duped or cheated would be if you bought a DSi and opened the box and it was anything but a DSi inside. You bought a DSi and you got a DSi.

I never once said I was forced to buy it. I said I felt "cheated and duped" that's what I said and that's exactly what i meant. I don't know where you're getting the idea I felt like I had a gun pointed to my head. The problem wasn't force. I want to say the problem was fraud, but that's not quite accurate. Nintendo didn't lie and say the DSi was going to have a long and healthy life and that there wouldn't be a successor 3DS right around the corner. Nintendo didn't say that, so they didn't exactly lie to me... but I made an assumption.

If you want to say its my fault that I assumed something that wasn't true, that's fine, but Nintendo obviously didn't do much to dissuade people from making that assumption. So its not so much that they lied, but that they didn't quite tell the whole truth about what the DSi was. Now we know that the DSi was a dead end system, but at the time how could anyone have known that?

No one put a gun to Sega fans who bought a 32X back in the day and were lead to believe this was the future of gaming. Are you saying they didn't have a right to be upset when just a few months later Sega announced the Saturn and pulled the plug on the 32X after only about a dozen games were produced? The DSi is like that. No force was used, but one argue fraud was involved. There was no lying, but Sega didn't make any effort to stop consumers from believing that the 32x was going to be this huge thing with a long life ahead of it, even though Sega knew damn well that this was just a stop gap measure, and that the real deal was the Saturn. That was deceitful and dishonest, and this had a lot to do with Sega's downfall.

Come to think of it, maybe the DSi has an awful lot to do with how badly the 3DS struggled early on. Many people had just gotten burned on the DSi so why would they want to open up their wallets again so soon on the 3DS?  Sales eventually did pick up after the price drop and release of new games, but the DSi probably accounts for at least some of that crappy initial start. I know I was in no rush to buy a new handheld because I felt (and still feel to some extent) that I didn't quite get my money's worth out of the DSi.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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The DSi was a great idea, and it had NOTHING to do with 3DS struggling early on. That was due to the price of the system, relatively lack of good games, and not strong marketing.

And "right around the corner"? The DSi was released almost 2 1/2 years before the 3DS came out. That is a pretty damn long time.
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Offline Adrock

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I never once said I was forced to buy it. I said I felt "cheated and duped" that's what I said and that's exactly what i meant. I don't know where you're getting the idea I felt like I had a gun pointed to my head.
Lulz. I didn't say you were forced either. I never even used that word in the part you quoted either. The "no one put a gun to your head" comment was made to illustrate that because the choice to buy the DSi was yours and yours alone, you don't get to pass the buck on Nintendo for that. Go ahead and be upset if you want. I just think it's misdirected if your aiming it at Nintendo.
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If you want to say its my fault that I assumed something that wasn't true, that's fine, but Nintendo obviously didn't do much to dissuade people from making that assumption. So its not so much that they lied, but that they didn't quite tell the whole truth about what the DSi was. Now we know that the DSi was a dead end system, but at the time how could anyone have known that?
It was entirely your fault. Why is it Nintendo's responsibility to explain to you the nature of consumer electronics? You made the assumption and you bought the product. I'm not saying you suck because of it. I've never met anyone who didn't regret a transaction at least once in their life. I have many times, a few times I even caught myself and returned a product. Lost Planet 2 comes to mind. However, I can't, for example, blame GameStop because I stupidly traded in Valkyrie Profile for PS1. Or blame Nintendo when I bought a Gameboy Pocket the February before the Gameboy Color was announced. I can't blame them because I made those choices.

I don't know why you expect Nintendo to tell you not to buy their current product and to wait for an upcoming product. First, no company will ever do that. Second, new products are always on the horizon. If people always waited for the next thing, no one would ever buy anything and the entire economy would collapse upon itself. Nintendo was pretty open about what the DSi was. There was a whole Iwata Asks about it.

The 32X example isn't the same thing. Like TJ said, DSi came out nearly 2.5 years before 3DS. That's a far cry from 32X and Saturn. And I'm sure Sega would have preferred the 32X to perform better and if it had, maybe the Saturn wouldn't have been an architectural mess. Unfortunately, 32X didn't and the Saturn was rushed for a variety of reasons. Again, releasing Saturn wasn't deception. That was Sega fucking up due to poor management. I wouldn't put DSi in the same pot though.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 08:19:15 AM by Adrock »

Offline DonnyKD

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Isn't the 3DS and 3DS XL compatible with any AC Adapter?

Who doesn't have a freaking AC Adapter?

I also love how many super-entitled people there are here.

"Nintendo's losing touch with reality!"

"I feel cheated and duped!"

As if you're actually going to get the 3DS XL. And why are you guys complaining that you have to buy it separately? I'm pretty sure the bundle would cost extra if it DID COME WITH THE SYSTEM.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 11:07:44 AM by DonnyKD »

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Isn't the 3DS and 3DS XL compatible with any AC Adapter?

Who doesn't have a freaking AC Adapter?

I also love how many super-entitled people there are here.

"Nintendo's losing touch with reality!"

"I feel cheated and duped!"

As if you're actually going to get the 3DS XL. And why are you guys complaining that you have to buy it separately? I'm pretty sure the bundle would cost extra if it DID COME WITH THE SYSTEM.

I have an AC adapter, but were I to trade in my 3DS to fund the purchase of the XL I would be without one.
By and large I would agree with you that people on the internet have an over inflated sense of entitlement. On this occasion, however, I'd have to disagree with you. There are warranted and unwarranted senses of entitlement. There are certain expectations that are valid for consumers to hold, and in my opinion including a power supply for an electronic device is one of them.
 
I understand the argument that some people have put forth, that in fact Nintendo are giving their consumers the option. That had they included an AC adapter with each XL they would be driving up the overall cost, and that by not including it they are able to provide a better price point to those consumers who don't require the AC adapter. I understand this argument, but that doesn't change my opinion that this was a bad decision.
 
From what I understand Nintendo have being doing things like this in Japan for years, but I'm worried that this will set a similar precedent in Europe and perhaps eventually other regions. The fact that some people might already own an AC adapter is not in my opinion sufficient justification to not include one with the boxed product. Without wanting to sound naive, the decision to put cost saving above wider consumer convenience is I believe a mis-step. I understand that Nintendo are eager to return to profitability but removing components from the original package and selling them separately is not only the wrong way to go about it, it also comes off as a little desperate.
 
There's also something to be said for having a robust and clear package to sell to consumers. Nintendo now have two 3DS SKUs, two variants of the Circle Pad Pro, and now they will have one bundle which includes an AC Adapter and one for which the adapter will have to be purchased separately. Not to mention the fact that the adapter is included in some regions but not others. It's a crazy decision in my opinion, but then again Nintendo have made quite a few crazy decisions over the course of the last two years.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 12:02:26 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
Gouge away.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Isn't the 3DS and 3DS XL compatible with any AC Adapter?

Far from it. Even if you have a so called "universal" AC adapter like I do, it isn't compatible with Nintendo's proprietary port.

The XL isn't even compatible with any DS adapter either. It will work with the DSi one apparently, but you are SOL if you happen to have a Phat or a Lite (which is the one most DS owners are likely to have).
is your sanity...