Author Topic: Not a hater but... (future prediction)  (Read 101699 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Clonester11

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #150 on: January 27, 2017, 07:19:50 AM »
Prime is one of Nintendo's best games of the 2000's. While the sequels were perhaps not up to par, and Retro may or may not be up to the task, I don't really want a Metroid game just for the sake of a Metroid game. It should aim high in the quality department and be given to a developer who can achieve that goal. The Prime name sells, not like Mario or Pokemon, but it still sells. A reboot of the Prime series I understand, because they can still make that series live again, instead of simply heading in a different direction and making a game which may or may not be decent and may or may not sell well.

Offline Agent-X-

  • I speak Gibberish
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #151 on: January 28, 2017, 12:10:40 AM »
The thing that really differentiated Metroid Prime for me was a combination of the environments (level of graphical detail) in combination with the story. There was a lot of discovery that really brought the game world to life. I felt as though I really had to pay attention to every detail.


Unfortunately, that really only works well when the console is a technical powerhouse and the game is attempting to showcase the graphical potential.  :-\

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #152 on: January 28, 2017, 02:07:10 AM »
I really don't like the idea of incorporating more action elements into Metroid.  To me Metroid is about isolation and discovery.  Action is a very minor part.  Hell I would probably still like a Metroid style game with NO action as figuring out where to go and that feeling of "oh I can go back to that area" that comes from getting a new ability is the real hook for me.

Other M pretty much lacked any of the elements of Metroid I actually like, and I don't even care about the story, I couldn't stand the gameplay.  So when anyone suggests copying anything from it, even its "good parts", I'm turned off.  I figure if I want action then I'll play something like Bayonetta.  Metroid essentially invented a whole genre so my feeling is that it should lead the genre.  Right now indies are leading that genre.  Nintendo has tried a few attempts to make Metroid a shooter, like the recent Federation Force, but that's me-too stuff.  Metroid is a pioneer and a leader.  Its IP shouldn't be relegated to following behind leaders in a different genre.

The recent years of how Metroid has been treated is like if Mario wasn't making platformers or even kart racers anymore and was restricted to those Olympics games with Sonic.  No, Super Mario Odyssey is what a series of that pedigree is supposed to be aiming for.

Offline MagicCow64

  • Still no title
  • Score: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #153 on: January 28, 2017, 02:33:03 AM »
I'm glad Ian is posting again 👆

Metroid Prime 3, while probably not as good as 1 overall, did a lot well, used the Wii tech correctly, and has some of the best areas/sequences of the series. But besides that, Prime essentially invented a genre of game that has not been replicated to my knowledge, and I think there's plenty of room to kick out the walls on the basic formula and articulate and expand the kinds of interaction that are possible, environmental interaction being a hallmark of the series. And that's where the better level of tech on the Switch can come in; Prime 4 can build additional layers of immersion through better graphical fidelity, technologically facilitated gameplay elements (cutting-edge physics, expanded scope, materially constructed objects and obstacles), and plain old design innovation in a persistent 3D space-type that only has three games to its name.

Offline Evan_B

  • Formally known as Bevan Ee
  • Score: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #154 on: January 28, 2017, 03:33:56 AM »
Or you could just kill Metroid.

We should totally just kill Metroid!
I am a toxic person engaging in toxic behavior.

Offline pokepal148

  • Inquire within for reasonable rates.
  • *
  • Score: -9967
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #155 on: January 28, 2017, 03:49:47 AM »
Or you could just kill Metroid.

We should totally just kill Metroid!
You can't kill Ridley though.

You can try but he'll still show up in the next game.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 03:51:19 AM by pokepal148 »

Offline Miyamoto

  • Only person correctly capable of predicting the Switch's demise
  • Score: -9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #156 on: February 07, 2017, 06:46:57 AM »
Less than four weeks until Switch Day and it's still very easy to preorder a Switch for launch day (in the UK at least) not sure how well it's going in the rest of the world...

Offline Evan_B

  • Formally known as Bevan Ee
  • Score: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #157 on: February 07, 2017, 09:20:46 AM »
What is this, an Ian Sane thread? We get it, you are right, Nintendo is doomed.

Also, you give a strong impression of a hater.

EDIT: While a strong initial launch is d finitely key for any console, I can imagine that part of the continued appeal and marketing of the Switch is getting the device in people's hands and having them share it with others. It's an attempt at social marketing, which admittedly might be counterintuitive, considering gamers in general.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 01:01:15 PM by Evan_B »
I am a toxic person engaging in toxic behavior.

Offline lolmonade

  • I wanna ride dolphins with you in the moonlight until the staff at Sea World kicks us out
  • *
  • Score: 29
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #158 on: February 07, 2017, 11:40:05 AM »
Less than four weeks until Switch Day and it's still very easy to preorder a Switch for launch day (in the UK at least) not sure how well it's going in the rest of the world...


In my area (Midwest U.S.) pre-orders are sold out, but I think some retailers (Best Buy) are still occasionally opening up pre-orders.  Can't tell if it's a sign of Nintendo committing more to them over time as they're able to ramp-up production from unforseen demand, or if they've been playing a game of trickling pre-order opportunities.


Either way, around here, best bet would be to stake out of a target on release day if you don't have a Switch preordered already.




Offline Khushrenada

  • is an Untrustworthy Liar
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #159 on: February 07, 2017, 02:00:39 PM »
It's weird to see an article on IGN where pretty much everyone has positive impressions and things to say about a Nintendo console. Of course, the same article has a link to a site to purchase the Switch with the disclaimer that "This link directs to a retail affiliate. IGN may receive a commission from your purchase." Therefore, it might be in their best interests to highly praise the Switch to create some hype and demand to get people to purchase it from this easily accessible and convenient link while reading in order to make some more money. Or maybe they actually are enthusiastic. Who can tell in this age of gaming "journalism"?
Whoever said, "Cheaters never win" must've never met Khushrenada.

Offline MagicCow64

  • Still no title
  • Score: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #160 on: February 07, 2017, 04:04:51 PM »
That's an interesting point, you'd think any professional video game website would try to gin up as much interest in everything as possible. And yet that's not what usually happens. There really are some bizarre cultural affectations in the video game world that run deep enough to seemingly counter business logic. Too many folks took schoolyard "kiddy" taunts deep, and were also the kind of people to become "professional game journalists".

Offline Miyamoto

  • Only person correctly capable of predicting the Switch's demise
  • Score: -9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #161 on: February 07, 2017, 05:50:25 PM »
We get it, you are right, Nintendo is doomed.


I may remember you favourably, my child, when the gloating doth commence.

Quote
Also, you give a strong impression of a hater.


This is a thread about the potential success of the Switch. My post is pertinent to said success. I have tried to conduct myself using only cold hard logic. Any deviation from this is borne out of frustration at a company I truly love continuing to make awful decisions.


How about this, let's say you and I are cousins, and we have a third cousin that is addicted to heroin. I'm pointing out the dangers of heroin addiction and getting upset when he won't stop. You, on the other hand, are getting angry with me for giving said heroin addict a hard time and not being more optimistic about how the addiction might turn out.

Offline Evan_B

  • Formally known as Bevan Ee
  • Score: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #162 on: February 07, 2017, 06:33:46 PM »
While I find your comments about availability still being high very interesting, it does not reflect upon the state of all regions. As stated previously, availability is low-to-non-existent on the East Coast of North America, that I can surely confirm.

I think you are blowing the situation entirely out of proportion. The fact that you feel the need to gloat is absurd and does not sit well with your heroin addict analogy at all. This is the video games industry, it is about the sale of recreational devices. Of course people have tempered their expectations, especially after the Wii U was a colossal failure. I was extremely negative about the Wii U and even about the Switch before the marketing strategy seemed to pretty much be a step in the right direction. Please remember that those who have allocated money towards the purchase of such a device have done so knowing that Nintendo could indeed screw up.

Also remember that the people you are discussing this subject with are human beings, and may have dealt with addiction in their families, in addition to having seen addiction consume and kill family members. So making a "cuh-razy" analogy such as that is absolutely fucking ridiculous in addition to being very much unlike the situation we are discussing. Thank you.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 06:35:42 PM by Evan_B »
I am a toxic person engaging in toxic behavior.

Offline Miyamoto

  • Only person correctly capable of predicting the Switch's demise
  • Score: -9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #163 on: February 07, 2017, 06:53:19 PM »
The fact that you feel the need to gloat is absurd and does not sit well with your heroin addict analogy at all.


Any gloating (which will of course be made in jest) is entirely motivated by my making a valid hypothesis built on logic and reason and then being roundly shouted down and chastised.


Quote
Please remember that those who have allocated money towards the purchase of such a device have done so knowing that Nintendo could indeed screw up.


I am one of those that have allocated money towards a purchase. I'm paying close to £500 on launch day. In fact, I actually considered buying a second one today because I'm already getting another set of joycons before MK 8 comes out, I'd get another grip, dock AC adapter. I'd basically be getting another Switch for less than £100.

Gratuitous political cheap shot removed
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 07:34:10 PM by Shaymin »

Offline Khushrenada

  • is an Untrustworthy Liar
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #164 on: February 07, 2017, 06:54:36 PM »
That's an interesting point, you'd think any professional video game website would try to gin up as much interest in everything as possible. And yet that's not what usually happens. There really are some bizarre cultural affectations in the video game world that run deep enough to seemingly counter business logic. Too many folks took schoolyard "kiddy" taunts deep, and were also the kind of people to become "professional game journalists".

The big problem is the way the industry grew. Video games were treated as toys and kid's stuff through it's early beginning in the 80's with Arcades, Atari and the NES / Master System. It's not like there were really professional reviewers discussing the artistic or technical merits of arcade games or early home consoles. Nintendo released Nintendo Power as a way of just advertising more titles for people to buy along with hints, tricks and maps to provide some practical value to the magazine. However, most reviews of games were done on the playground or just visiting with friends.

Things changed a bit in the SNES/ Genesis era as other gaming magazines started coming out but, to my knowledge, it was all done by fans and enthusiasts of the medium. As young gamers grew up and went to school and college and learned how to critically assess things like literature, movies or art, some have tried applying that to video games but there's never been a majorly successful or highly regarded critic of the medium like say Roger Ebert, Pauline Kael or Gene Siskel in movies. They had much influence in the medium they reviewed but were also very good at their craft though they could have their foibles and faults. Yet even now, you can read back and their work on movies they reviewed and so much of it still holds up and is useful. Who can you say that about in the world of video games?

It was in the GameCube era that I first saw video game reviews appearing newspapers I read. Often it seemed to be done by a young person in their late teens or early 20's going by their picture next to their name. I often thought they were probably freshly hired by the newspaper and it was their first job or an intern trying to break into the newspaper industry and get experience. It's not like video game reviews or news was given a prominent place or there own section in newspapers. Usually it was in the back section of the culture or entertainment section. Even today, if one watches the news, you don't see much discussion of videogame related news like with announcements of TV programs or movie titles. If videogame discussion comes up, it is usually because of how much money something made or how its influencing society at the moment like videogames causing violence or Pokémon Go causing disruption with people wandering about everywhere on their phones. It's not regarded as a serious medium but that's no surprise considering the people who do cover it.

The internet soon took over as the place to get videogame information. After sites like IGN, 1UP or GameSpot kind of arose as places for people to get their reviews and latest news on games, YouTube came along allowing people to better see the games in action. Yet, again, the people on YouTube who have become big players in reviewing videogames aren't really of a high caliber. I highly doubt they would be considered serious critics by their peers or others in the wide range of critics and reviewers. It goes back to the debate of whether games are art which is still be discussed. If anything, most YouTube personalities or bloggers are of the form of an editorial than a review. Add in the problem of sites and YouTubers dependent on advertising, trying to stay friends with people in the industry to get news or scoops or getting swag and handouts from developers, it further keeps the medium from gaining any kind of integrity or legitimacy. Heck, there are plenty of times people seem to write reviews having only played a small portion of a game or not at all and the review is full on incorrect facts or missed information. As such, I don't see the industry ever being considered an actual enrichment for culture anytime soon with the state of the Gaming Journalism we currently see even if actual, individual gamers would disagree. I didn't follow any of the gamergate controversy last year (or is it now 2 years ago?) but I remember some of the points being raised about game journalists painted a pretty bleak picture. It comes off as amateurs trying to pose as professionals.

That's not to say everyone involved in trying to review or cover games is of the same cloth or not worth listening to. I've stuck around with Nintendo World Report this long since I've always respected the reviews and information it provides. My favorite game reviewer of the past couple years has been Grubdog from the Pietriots website. I love his style of writing. He seems to be able to capture the essence of the fun to be experienced in a game and put that into his writing and review of a title to give you a great idea of what playing the game is like or could be like. There are times after reading a review of his, I immediately want to go and buy a game (or if I have it) start playing it myself. There are titles I wasn't interested in before that he's made me interested in because of how he writes up his experiences with them. Honestly, he's the closest the reviewer I'd compare in that Roger Ebert mold. Yet, again with Pietroits or NWR, these are volunteers and fans who are putting out this content. Unpaid non-professionals but they do it better than the actual professionals these days.

That's why I think Nintendo is right to consider their business as toys or just games and not worry about their games creating a grand artistic statement. It keeps them on the right side of game development where the focus is keeping a player entertained and not about an epic story to rival a Hollywood production. Doesn't mean the games they make can't have artistic merit or plot in them but they are smart enough to realize that shouldn't be the main focus in making a game and why they're still standing today.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 12:03:05 PM by Khushrenada »
Whoever said, "Cheaters never win" must've never met Khushrenada.

Offline Khushrenada

  • is an Untrustworthy Liar
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #165 on: February 07, 2017, 07:06:58 PM »
The fact that you feel the need to gloat is absurd and does not sit well with your heroin addict analogy at all.


Any gloating (which will of course be made in jest) is entirely motivated by my making a valid hypothesis built on logic and reason and then being roundly shouted down and chastised.

Oh man. You realize then that going by your heroin addiction analogy, you are basically saying that you will be gloating to your family about how right you were and wrong they were when the third cousin encounters these dangers of heroin addiction. That... is not a good stance to take in such a matter. I can't see any family where that makes you look good. Therefore, the analogy is not good as Evan_B was trying to point out.

Quote
This is why Trump is your president.

This statement also makes no sense. It has nothing to do with the part of the post you quoted and seems to have been made to be possibly inflammatory. As established, the heroin analogy is flawed in comparison to the actual situation of how much and how fast the Switch might sell. If a person has gone through a situation with a close friend or loved one who has gone through a battle with addiction they either lost or overcame through a long, tough, struggle, the personal trauma they experienced during that time will not be close to how they or anyone should or would feel to how good or bad the Switch sells. Therefore, by pointing out, again, the erroneous comparison of arguing about a person with an addiction problem to arguing about potential switch sales and how it could be seen as insensitive, what does that have to do with Trump winning the presidency? There is no relation. You do yourself no favors when you say make posts on logic and reason and then add statements and comments like this that show none.
Whoever said, "Cheaters never win" must've never met Khushrenada.

Offline Phil

  • Good day, citizens!
  • Score: 51
    • View Profile
    • SuperPhillip Central
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #166 on: February 07, 2017, 08:56:42 PM »
I'm not a hater, but I will gloat when I'm right? Well, might not be a hater, but it makes you a petty jerk, which is worse. And then does "this is why Trump is your president?"

Get some damn perspective, son. Get away from your keyboard for a few days and cool down.
Switch Friend Code: SW-4962-7799-3963 (Phil)

Offline Oedo

  • This title is an insult!
  • Score: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #167 on: February 07, 2017, 10:05:31 PM »
According to a TIME interview with Kimishima, "launch day preorders have nearly reached the maximum available," and Nintendo is increasing its production of Switch. With respect to the UK, market factors outside of Nintendo's control have led to retailers pricing the Switch much higher than they would have a year ago (which is no doubt having an impact on preorders, as RFN's own Greg Leahy can attest to). From an objective, fact-based perspective, I don't see how you can view the overall pre-release position of Switch as anything other than positive.

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #168 on: February 07, 2017, 10:17:10 PM »
Pre-orders are sold out in Virginia.

Ebay prices are creeping up for guaranteed switch pre-orders as well.
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline MagicCow64

  • Still no title
  • Score: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #169 on: February 07, 2017, 11:28:19 PM »
Well-stated examination of the current state of video games vis a vis criticism

I agree with everything you've written. From one perspective, you could argue that this is all part of the growing pains of any new medium, and that it took decades to develop the technique and language surrounding motion pictures, for instance, which started off as hand-cranked novelty exhibitions.

But with video games as a modern phenomenon, it really seems like the consumers, producers, and commentators are locked in an unhealthy hermetic ecosystem. I've heard anecdotally from friends in academia that critical studies of video games were starting to pick up steam, but got kneecapped by the Gamergate "movement".

At the same time, the product is becoming more and more overdetermined by multiplayer and online  considerations (including streamers) on the one hand, in which it's hard to describe something like Overwatch or Destiny as "art" (are sports art? are board games?), and on the other hand by semi-interactive theme park attraction games that are perversely trying to focus on narrative and eschew the actual foundational and unique elements of the medium. As you say, I think Nintendo is one of the few major producers still doing it right (at least part of the time).

Offline ShyGuy

  • Fight Me!
  • *
  • Score: -9660
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #170 on: February 08, 2017, 01:53:21 AM »
UK has always been a week market for Nintendo. The chavs just want their GTA and their FIFA footy, bruv! ;)

Offline Miyamoto

  • Only person correctly capable of predicting the Switch's demise
  • Score: -9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #171 on: February 08, 2017, 06:22:49 AM »

Quote
Gratuitous political cheap shot removed


Ha, fair enough. It would appear that some people have maybe taken some of my comments perhaps a little too seriously and are getting a bit worked up by them, so I would like to genuinely and sincerely apologise for the offence or outrage I may have potentially inadvertently caused. It was never my intention to upset anyone, honest. We're talking about video games on the internet. I often forget that people take this more seriously than I do.
That being said, I'll try in future to keep to the topic of the thread, that being the success (or lack there, of) of the Nintendo Switch with as little sass as I can manage. And if anyone would like to have the more fruitful and positive discussion on how Nintendo can turn it all around, I'll be happy to have that too!

Offline Phil

  • Good day, citizens!
  • Score: 51
    • View Profile
    • SuperPhillip Central
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #172 on: February 08, 2017, 06:24:41 AM »
Apology accepted (at least by me). Good show!  ;D
Switch Friend Code: SW-4962-7799-3963 (Phil)

Offline Sarail

  • That Starlink makes me wet.
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
    • Sarail's Safe Haven
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #173 on: February 10, 2017, 08:43:27 PM »
Not a hater, but...

Switch will be awesome. It's going to kick so much ass — especially once word gets out to the mass market of casual gamers outside of the core. If my boyfriend, who loves his Xbox more than anything, and doesn't necessarily care for Nintendo all that much, can get super excited for Nintendo's new console (I mean, seriously, he's stoked for this thing...maybe more than my little fangirl ass is), then that means Nintendo have a hit on their hands once again.

Now, more than ever, it's up to third-parties to seriously deliver the goods.
I like Nintendo more than j00!
Jet. Force. Gemini. 'Nuff said.
Muh Backloggery!

Offline Miyamoto

  • Only person correctly capable of predicting the Switch's demise
  • Score: -9
    • View Profile
Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #174 on: February 11, 2017, 05:42:36 AM »

Now, more than ever, it's up to third-parties to seriously deliver the goods.


Third-party support is one of the bigger problems facing the Switch. It's one thing for the unbreakable Kimi Shima and co to point out that the Switch is compatible with Unity and Unreal but that doesn't count for much if developers aren't going to bring their bigger titles to the Switch. Final Fantasy XV, RE VII, Mass Effect Andromeda etc. Where are they? Even Ubi aren't supporting the Switch in the same way they did the Wii and Wii U. EA only offering the legacy edition of FIFA? They offered more support to the Wii U. Nintendo need to be aggressive with their courting of third-parties, just like Microsoft did over ten years ago with the 360.
You talk about how excited your Xbox-loving boyf is for the Switch and that is great, but what is he going to play after Breath of the Wild? Is he going to wait two months to play a three year old game like Mario Kart 8? And even if Nintendo had that third party support, the games would still run better on the Xbone (or PS 4), so why is he so excited for the Switch? So he can play on a system with a significantly smaller library that plays at a lower frame rate/resolution? Outside of first-party software, the Switch is all but redundant, just like the Wii U. Oh, and let's not forget that you have to pay a premium price for the Switch. How many of us here are wii U owners paying well in excess of $400 to play Zelda and then Mario Kart 8 a couple of months later?
The best Nintendo could do, would be if at E3 they had a huge third-party presentation featuring all the biggest publishers/developers and all the big games that are coming to Xbone/PS4 were also announced for Switch. That is the best they could hope for. To have the same as the competition with noticeably less performance. But they won't even achieve that.