Topic: Holy Crap! *New Tech/Gadget Thread*

[NWR_insanolord]

I think ShyGuy's got the right idea with pushing it as a driveway thing as opposed to a road thing. Converting even relatively small sections of a city into this would be a massive undertaking, but it'd be easier to sell individual homeowners on the long-term benefits. I know around here if you could redo your driveway in a way that melts snow AND lowers your electric bill there would be a lot of takers.

[Ceric]

As someone who has been pricing home improvements lately and would really like to get into solar for the home.  The cost of something like this to the benefits would be way to high.  Just to put it in perspective Siding jumps from $7,800 to $14,400 by just simply adding a foam insulation on the back of the siding.  I would hate to see how much this would cost compared to say an Aggregate driveway.

[BlackNMild2k1]

On an individual basis, solar is an upper middle-class thing. They might be able sell large companies like Google into doing the rooftop, parking lot & driveways of they main complexes, especially if they can add solar panels to the roof of their smart cars and drive then for testing all day without ever really needing to charge it.

But the only way this is getting adopted in any significant way that shows its true worth and brings the cost down to something that the rest of us could buy into, is if the government gets involved and starts supplementing the cost.

Maybe they can team up with Google and a builder and do a test neighborhood in like Arizona. New neighborhood, solar roads, driveways, roofs. HOA covers all electricity (heated pools, heated bathroom & kitchen floors, smart house with automated everything.) and gardening. A proof of concept build in a controlled environment in a super hot and sunny state.

[NWR_insanolord]

The government won't buy into it until it gets cheaper, though. The continued development that gets it to that point is going to need to be funded by smaller-scale projects.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm sure the Pentagon would love to get off the grid, that's a lot of exposed and unused roof space they got there.

[NWR_insanolord]

I'd be surprised if they didn't already have measures in place to that effect.

[Ceric]

I'm sure the Pentagon would love to get off the grid, that's a lot of exposed and unused roof space they got there.

They have a Nuclear Reactor already.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Their own personal power station? probably.
Can't have the government shutting down because the power went out.

I'm sure the Pentagon would love to get off the grid, that's a lot of exposed and unused roof space they got there.

They have a Nuclear Reactor already.

Well... that sounds safe.... nothing could go wrong there...

It would be nice if we could adopt some future tech in this world before we are absolutely forced, kicking and screaming, to do it.

I would actually think that one of the things that would hold a project like this back in the computer components. precious metals that are currently required for circuit boards and computer chips.
Trying to push something like this mainstream could hopefully lead to some advancements in other areas too. Such as wireless energy transfer; new cheaper, more efficient and abundant materials to use for computers, and things where too much power was being used to make it economical.

Maybe we can see something get rolling that moves us as a society into the new age of technology before we die. Probably not, but one can dream.

[Ceric]

We've been trying to since the 70's.  We being the people.  Not the Corporations.   Unfortunately with wage stagnation the only ones getting richer and can afford the tech are the Corporations...

[BlackNMild2k1]

I can't help but imagine what a world of tomorrow would actually look like. If money was never the issue, and we just accepted that things needed to be done, and as long as you did your part in making everything work, you continued to benefit from the advantages of society... where would we be? what could we have accomplished. (I know monetary compensation is a necessity for value and worth, but I'm trying to let my imagine run free here.)\

So say this "Solar Road" tech was adopted today, rolled out tomorrow, completely this year and it worked flawlessly.
- Generated energy from the sun that was then fed into the grid and pushed out to every connected home, business, building, structure, appliance and electric vehicle.
- Super Highspeed internet (and <cell?>phone lines... i guess) fed under the road - gigbit wifi for all.
- Smart Interactive Streets systems, that control and monitor: traffic flow, crosswalks, street lights, detours, repairs, maintenance

What would this mean?
Besides the government knowing where everyone is at all times, using the GPS of your phone, or ID tag in your watch or whatever future personal ID GPS thing we may have going on* (The Machine is now under your feet)
and the police being able to monitor practically anything they have access to...
(this is actually kinda scary as it seems very intrusive.... maybe this is why we can't get anywhere.)
-we would never have to worry about electricity again.
-The streets would have never been safer, as the cars drive themselves, the street is alive and can react to unknown variables such as pesky humans stepping into the street against designated and regulated crosswalk areas.

Wow, ok, maybe I shouldn't look to far ahead. One step at a time. One thing at a time. no need to rush.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I said basically the same thing and Shyguy gets the credit?

[ShyGuy]

I said basically the same thing and Shyguy gets the credit?

I gots da swagger.
BnM is starting to go full blow Futurtopia in here! I always say you can change the world around them as much as you want, but people are still people.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

being totally honest its nothing more than a pipe dream period. We have government subsidies on Solar power for homes and businesses right now, and nobody takes advantage of them.

[NWR_insanolord]

There are tons of examples from all different types of tech of things that were very niche, limited appeal products, right up until the point that they weren't. I'd imagine that during the recession people either haven't had or weren't willing to spend the money for that kind of large-scale home improvement project, subsidy or no subsidy. The benefits of it are only becoming more pronounced over time.

[BlackNMild2k1]

because they are still too expensive and do little to replace your current dependency on PG&E.

The panels they are selling to the public have something like 10% power conversion, and after subsidies and taxes and cost and installation (and optional battery).... for a small panel that sits on your roof, you have still just spent at least $10k ($20k w/ battery) out of pocket and eliminated about 10-20% of your PG&E bill.

I'm getting these figures from the numerous presentations that have been done at my house over the last year. As exciting as it all sounds when they present it to you, the consumer level tech is just not worth the cost to those that can't afford to spend the money freely. They payback on that investment is like over a decade.

To make serious dent and collect enough sun, you are going to need the full roof replacement w/ solar battery and now you're looking at close to if not more than $100k. You might then still be looking at quite a few year payback on investment, but you won't be paying PG&E, as they would be paying you instead.

It may be pipe dream, but if this is gonna happen, it needs to happen on a rather large scale, even if that large scale is kinda small at first (i.e. proof of concept neighborhood or a business complex conversion - roof, parkinglot, private roads). You can't expect individuals to foot the bill as these type of panels would be far too expensive and not beneficial to a sparse selection of individuals spread out over a single town, county or state.

BnM is starting to go full blow Futurtopia in here! I always say you can change the world around them as much as you want, but people are still people.

Can you tell that I've been watching a lot of COSMOS lately? Great show BTW.
Really gets your inner futurist going. Reconnecting the discoveries of the past to the way that things have become in the present, lets you see where the things of the now may take us one day in the future.

developing solar on the ground now could lead to all sorts of new ****.
-what if all the excess energy we had led to a free way to space? using that extra electricity to make a magnetized space elevator.
-Since that the ground is literally a source of energy.... hoverboards? Back to the future could be sooner rather than later. MagLevBoards might not be what we call it, but it could be what makes it possible.
-Now that we are using Solar for everything, we should be able to refine it and get better energy conversion. Free way to space allowing us to now use solar energy to somehow propel our ships for free. No more heavy propulsion payloads.
Surviving on other planets now since we don't need fuel, we would have stored up plenty of solar energy for scouting robots, vehicles, etc etc.

my mind is running wild. I know we will get there someday (hopefully), but the paper chase is what is slowing down progress.

[Oblivion]

Oxygen is far more important for surviving on other planets than fuel. That's still a pipe dream since we'd need to ship it from Earth and that isn't exactly easy.

[NWR_insanolord]

Also, if we were going to do a base on another planet it would probably be Mars, where solar would be less of an option due to its greater distance from the sun. I also can't imagine any such venture being taken without including a nuclear reactor for that purpose.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But we could possibly get there without the heavy payload of fuel, which means we could use that space to carry other equipment, such as some terraforming CO2 producing factory equipment.

And Mars gets plenty of sunlight, solar would still be very useful there, as I'm sure that is how we power the rovers currently on the planet.

We also might be able to mine oxygen from asteroids.
First step is easily getting to space though.

[NWR_insanolord]

The most recent Mars rover, which is essentially an SUV full of scientific sensors driving around up there, is nuclear powered. Previous, more limited ones were solar powered, however.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well, with 10-15% power conversion of current solar, I can only imagine how limited that solar must have been.

But no reason we can't use both.

[NWR_insanolord]

One thing I wasn't thinking of is the greater distance from the sun is counteracted by the thinner atmosphere and weaker magnetic fields that allow more of the sun's rays to get through. Still, I'd think you'd want both. If you're stuck on an alien planet with no real lifeline you're going to want all the contingencies you can get in there.

[ShyGuy]

I've read that one of the things that lessens the efficiency of solar is overheating for the converting technology. I can't find the article, but here's some cool tech from IBM: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/410143/a-cool-trick-for-solar-cells/

[BlackNMild2k1]

I've read that one of the things that lessens the efficiency of solar is overheating for the converting technology. I can't find the article, but here's some cool tech from IBM: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/410143/a-cool-trick-for-solar-cells/

See, this is what I'm talking about

IBM is not known for its work in solar energy, but that has changed recently, with the rising cost of fuel and the growing interest in renewable alternative energies, says Supratik Guha, lead scientist of photovoltaic research at IBM’s T.J. Watson Research Center, in Yorktown Heights, NJ. "About a year and a half ago, we decided to start looking at photovoltaics,” he says.

By employing a trick normally used to cool high-performance computer chips, IBM researchers have found a way to make concentrated photovoltaic cells that are more efficient in converting the sun’s energy into electricity.

The researchers have shown that it is possible to increase the concentration of light on photovoltaic cells by about ten times without causing them to melt. This, they say, makes it possible to boost the amount of usable electrical energy produced by up to five times.

No interest in solar until 1.5yrs ago, then they make a break thru that can multiply efficiency by 5x... (pre-post edit: Just realized the article was from 2008)
assuming that translates directly, we are talking 50-75% conversion from 10-15% previously. That could change alot of things regarding solar if it is cheap to apply.

pre post edit: Why has none of this made it into current solar tech? why are we still at 15% or is this what brought us up to 15%? they figured this out 6 years ago, i figure some of that research has got to have made it into something other than IBM calculators right?

[stevey]

No interest in solar until 1.5yrs ago, then they make a break thru that can multiply efficiency by 5x... (pre-post edit: Just realized the article was from 2008)
assuming that translates directly, we are talking 50-75% conversion from 10-15% previously. That could change alot of things regarding solar if it is cheap to apply.

pre post edit: Why has none of this made it into current solar tech? why are we still at 15% or is this what brought us up to 15%? they figured this out 6 years ago, i figure some of that research has got to have made it into something other than IBM calculators right?

The wording is misleading but I believe the improvement isn't the conversion efficiency but of less solar cell area. Concentrated photovoltaics use a big Fresnel lens to focus a larger area of sunlight down to a smaller area solar cell to save cost and use more expensive high efficiency cells. Since it's essentially a solar death-ray, you need to have a heavy duty cooling system and need to track the sun for the light to actually hit the underlying cell so they're not the kind panel you would mount to a static roof or road.

[Stogi]

Wow, I completely missed this conversation.

Free energy for all vs. cost. Free energy for all vs. cost. What are we arguing about?

It could cost all the world's money for a year and it would still be worth it. That is an investment into forever. This is as monumental as finding out that electricity can do work for us. If we were to look back in history and find out that the cost of the electric motor was the Earth's money in a day, we wouldn't care. We know the benefits, and everyday we use them. In all honesty, the person that time travelled with us and thought the cost was too high would be bitch-slapped on site.

So, maybe this isn't the exact product we need, but it sounds very close. The fact that each individual square or hexagon is autonomous is my favorite thing about it. They all work together but can be replaced separately. Brilliant.

I'm with Mr. Black on this one. Free energy going forward, smart grids instead of idiotic powerlines, easily upgradeable, no proprietary lines for cable companies to only have access, heating, pressurized, waste-water management, and complete and utter independence.

Now let's just look at one of those things - free energy. Could you imagine the platform that would make for businesses? The internet allowed Google to happen. Now imagine free energy...My God, it's the last flood gate and we could make it burst. Almost immediately, everything, everything would be cheaper. Next new scientific discoveries that were simply to impractical would immediately be viable. Was it costing to much to try and make nuclear fusion? Not anymore? How about you, CERN? Costing too much to smash protons? Run it all day, every day. Next, water would be abundant. Desalination plants would form everywhere. We could reforest the deserts; the Sahara even. And that brings me to solving Climate Change. More plants equal more C02 use and more Oxygen, and a healthier planet. But what else could we use free energy for other than silly little things like food production, communication or transportation? How about global well-being? How about stopping wars solely based on energy? How about even something as crazy as alchemy? It's all possible.

Obviously, these are high hopes of which I do not think making roads solar powered can fix. But let's start there and use the new, extremely cheap energy to get to free energy.