Topic: Wii Overtakes Xbox360 In WorldWide Sales

[Ian Sane]

Well so far it is.  That doesn't mean that's how it will end up in the end but it has a really lousy lineup right now, far inferior to the corresponding lineups on the other four consoles around the same time.

[UncleBob]

That's just a crazy statement though.  By that logic, I could say that the *next* Nintendo console is the worse Nintendo console ever without *anything* being known about it.

"So far" the Wii is the worse console from Nintendo ever.  Even though it's been out less than a year.  Which other Nintendo console (or any console for that matter) had a *stellar* line up within the first year?  I mean, it's just not a statement that makes any sense.

[Ian Sane]

"Which other Nintendo console (or any console for that matter) had a *stellar* line up within the first year?"

It's not an issue of the lineup being stellar but just being BETTER than the Wii lineup is right now.  The Wii has, what, ONE really awesome game that isn't either a dumbed down non-game or was originally designed for the Cube?  Even the N64 with it's really shallow release schedule had a better lineup at this point.  It had Super Mario 64, Pilotwings 64, Wave Race 64, Star Fox 64 and Mario Kart 64 (geez Nintendo liked putting "64" in the title).  Those are just first party games and that just CRUSHES the current Wii lineup.  The Gamecube at this point had Wave Race, Rogue Leader, SSBM, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, and Super Mario Sunshine which again I would consider better than the current Wii lineup.

Metroid Prime 3 and Super Paper Mario are the only EXCLUSIVE Wii titles that I would put on par with the games listed.  If Resident Evil 4 and Twilight Princess are counted then the lineup gets WAY better but I don't need a Wii to play those games, do I?

I'm not saying that the Xbox 360 or PS3 are doing any better (the X360's first year wasn't so hot) and the DS had this problem too.  Being the worst Nintendo console isn't even that bad to begin with since all four of them had some absolute must-play exclusives.  Since it's number one I think the Wii should have no problem ending up better than the Cube for example and I'd only predict it behind the N64 because Nintendo was on such a roll then, releasing "best game ever" candidates a few times a year.

"By that logic, I could say that the *next* Nintendo console is the worse Nintendo console ever without *anything* being known about it."

No you couldn't.  At this point all the other consoles had zero games and no info revealed about them which logically would make them all a tie.

[NWR_pap64]

It's Ian. What else did you expect? Although his negativity can be a little disturbing sometimes. I mean the WORST console? Its one thing to be disappointed with it right now, but the WORST?

[UncleBob]

You're really just not seeing anything more than you want to, are you Ian?

I don't see what the game being "originally designed for the Cube" has anything to do with it.  Star Fox 64 was basically a reworked version of Star Fox 2 from the SNES - yet you're more than happy to consider it a stellar N64 title.

And this isn't even counting the "non-games" that you're to manly to enjoy like Big Brain Academy, Wario Ware, Mario Party 8 and, of course, Wii Sports.  (Sorry, I did fudge a little to put Brawl on the list, even though it'll be out after the one year anniversary of the Wii...)
 

[AManatee2]

I agree with Ian. It's sad to say that I've spent more time playing N64 games on my Wii (which I love being able to do, don't get me wrong) than actual Wii titles. Sure I've poured *maybe* 20 hours into Zelda and some time with SSX Blur (haven't picked up Prime 3 yet, but will).

I will admit that I haven't finished Super Paper Mario and I've had it for quite some time. I just got... bored. Sorry. Seriously. When I realized I had more fun speed-running through Mario NES and whatnot, I got even more bored. And believe me, I played Mario NES on Wii far longer than Super Paper Mario.

With the N64 I felt I had the heavy-hitting console based solely on the handful of titles that Ian mentioned because that handful of titles were deep and severely fun. I still played them all over again and then some. The biggest downfall of the N64 was it's dying controller.

And while I am truly looking forward to playing through Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy (oh yes), It's just sad to say that I've been mostly disappointed with the line-up thus far. I knew it at the point where I was playing the .skate demo on 360 more than a game I hadn't even finished yet on Wii. And in the past I've been what you forum-ites would call a "fan-boy".  

I'm a gamer, and I need games. Fun. Involving. Games.

EDIT: I see that post. I will admit I played the hell out of Excitetruck, and I'm really looking forward to the thrid-party developed NitroBike by the N64 developers of Excitebike 64. But even then, I feel Excitetruck lacked some severely needed replay value. Oh, if only online, if only.

[Faithinchaos]

I for one like the Wii because its a dose of reason and logic in the midst of the most phallic race of power I've ever seen an INDUSTRY play to. Seriously, the money to be made in deceiving the gaming public has been quite good for Sony, and really that they are selling anything to people that are in any way forgiving of their nefarious ways is upsetting to me. I only hope the trend continues against their arrogant favor. Not because I'd rather see it with Nintendo or anything, just that I refuse to let Sony dash my expectations of the world.  And the 360 is broken. Period. Worst made $300 piece of equipment you may ever find that isn't a CAR  thats been totaled.

So Nintendo stands, quietly nowhere in the middle this, somewhere off in left field minding its own P's and Q's. Its overpriced for what it is, but then again maybe not - I would come home from work earlier this year and find my parents playing on MY Wii, having a splendid time with Wii Bowling, almost sheepishly telling me that they couldn't wait to ask. That was a great moment, my parents sneaking time in on MY console. Something about that moment brought something full circle to me, and was actually a little eerie.

They have their own now, BTW.

Plus, don't buy into this HD nonsense, please. You know how much money is made on each HDTV sold? Enough for the industry itself to offer incentives and kickbacks for ANYTHING that will broadcast in HD- networks, TV Shows, and I'm supposing that includes consoles as well (that don't see a price break despite the stipend).
Screw that noise. Call me in five or six years when they aren't at least %100 markup and then I'll be concerned about HD, when I wont have to bend over while buying one.

[NWR_pap64]

Its one thing to be disappointed with the game line up (I admit that they need to kick it up a notch, and that includes third parties), the other is calling the console "Nintendo's worst console yet" on it first year. Its almost as saying a newborn baby will not have a good future because the arms and legs are not well developed.

Ian is also contradicting himself. He admits that the Wii has a long way to go and that many consoles suffered through the same thing yet he is quick to put the label on it based on his own experiences and first year performance.

Its just reeks of bitter fanboyism. Its almost as if Ian was betrayed by Nintendo in the worst way possible and just can't forgive them no matter how well they are doing and how smartly they are playing their cards.

[Ian Sane]

UncleBob why are you including two games that are not out yet for the Wii?  If we're going to do that then put Goldeneye and Metroid Prime and other titles in the N64 and Cube list that at the time had not been released.  Plus the entire Virtual Console should not be included.  If I'm going to include old games then why not go all the way and count every Gamecube game since it too is playable on the Wii?  The PS3 can play PS2 and PS1 games.  Well f*ck it must be the best console ever made.  Games from old consoles don't count for the obvious reason that no one has to buy the new console to play it.  If you own a Cube buying a Wii for Twilight Princess and Resident Evil 4 wouldn't be a very logical buy.

And Star Fox 64 clearly makes use of the N64.  It could never have been possible, as is, on the SNES.  Super Paper Mario pretty much looks exactly like it did when it was on the Gamecube.  I count it anyway so it really doesn't matter but right now Metroid Prime 3 is the only Wii title that really appears to be pushing the Wii hardware.

You guys are overreacting on this "worst Nintendo console yet" stuff.  "Worst" is a relative term.  So far I regard the Wii lineup to be quite inferior to the corresponding lineups of the other Nintendo consoles from the same time.  So it's the worst.  That makes perfect sense.  One of them HAS to be the worst of the five by definition unless they're all equal.

"He admits that the Wii has a long way to go and that many consoles suffered through the same thing"

Yes but it isn't the other four Nintendo consoles that suffered though the same thing.  The PS2 did.  The DS did.  The Xbox 360 did.  The PS3 currently is.  The NES, SNES, N64, and Gamecube did not.  As the only Nintendo console to suffer this problem it is therefore the worst of the five at this point in it's life.

I saw this same tolerance of mediocrity with the DS.  The DS lineup SUCKED for months after launch to the point that the PSP launched with more titles than the DS had accumulated at that point.  Some here bought it for a port of a game that ALREADY OWNED only this new version had worse controls.  I think we as Nintendo fans deserve better than what we've got so far on the Wii.  The third party support is horrible for example.  I want to see improvement so I'm expressing my lack of satisfaction.  Being a Nintendo fan doesn't mean swallowing what the give you no matter what.  The acceptance of the incredibly sh!tty DS launch for example probably contributed to the Wii's similarly lazy launch.  Nintendo thought they could again get away with half-assing it again and they were right.  Next time we'll get the same thing because they know they can get away with it.

I want the Wii to be better.  I don't want it to be Nintendo's worst console.  I would rather the Cube be that.  I want to see Nintendo make the best console they can.  I'm nervous that the Wii with THIS lineup got to number one.  I'm nervous that Nintendo will slack off because of it.  They've got some great games on the way.  Let's hope those games sell well.  Let's hope Nintendo continues to keep that momenum going and that third parties are encouraging to make better Wii games.  A number one selling Wii that attracts no better than this level third party support provides no benefit to us.

[NWR_pap64]

First of all, the Wii launch was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like the DS launch. The games may not have been the best or the most inspired but at least it was more attractive than the DS launch games. Twilight Princess may have been an updated port of the GC version but at least it was a far better product than Mario 64 DS was. Second, you can bitch all you want about it being a "casual game" but Wii Sports did a far better job of selling the Wii than ANY DS launch game did for the DS. The third party support wasn't perfect but many of the titles were solid.

Long story short the Wii launch was NOT garbage and people ate it up not because they were mindless fanboys, they ate it up because it was GOOD.

Oh and do I need to remind you that the DS became a massive success after its disastrous launch? Before you use the "casual game crap made it sell" there are many great games for it right now, including the blockbuster future release of Dragon quest IX.

Second, the N64 and GC never went through a dead spot in releases? Huh? If I'm not mistaken many fans bitched that the N64 didn't have any games, that it suffered from constant delays and that there were many months in which no games were released. Hell, many people praised Sony because a lot of games were released for the Playstation. There was always something new to play. The N64 does have some of the best games ever but it certainly wasn't perfect and to say that it didn't suffer game droughts is just silly. Same with the GC. True many great games were released but after the killer apps were released there was nothing else to look forward to.

Finally, you are very quick to judge the system. Its only been a year. While its true that the system can do better its unfairly to put the label on it. And once more, calling it "the worst Nintendo console" is just childish.

I hate to say this but you definitely need to rethink the way you look at Nintendo and games in general. I've never seen anyone take so deeply to heart the businesses of a company. I know some friends that are hardcore Apple loyalists but have never felt the emotion you feel towards Nintendo.

Not saying that you can't praise or criticize Nintendo but it just looks like you are taking this a tad too far.

[Bill Aurion]

Ian's just upset that Nintendo has done so well by not listening to his "advice"...

[Ian Sane]

"Second, the N64 and GC never went through a dead spot in releases? Huh?"

I'm not talking about dead spots in releases.  The Cube had a horrible drought.  I'm talking about a rocky first year where there's very little that worth a damn at all.  When the N64 had a game it was a really killer game.  The Cube wasn't so hot but it had a better launch than the Wii so at this point it had a better lineup.

"Oh and do I need to remind you that the DS became a massive success after its disastrous launch?"

Don't need to.  And I'm not talking about success because the Wii obviously has that.  And just as the DS improved so hopefully should the Wii.  That doesn't make the DS at about the 10 month mark NOT a really sh!tty videogame system.  I'd consider that to be worse than the Wii at this point.

"Finally, you are very quick to judge the system. Its only been a year."

And I'm judging at about 10 months compared to the other consoles at the same time which is a fair and logical comparison.

"Second, you can bitch all you want about it being a 'casual game' but Wii Sports did a far better job of selling the Wii than ANY DS launch game did for the DS. The third party support wasn't perfect but many of the titles were solid."

I'm not talking about success I'm talking about quality.  Sales don't mean anything in this arguement.  Many horrible games have fantastic sales and many great games bomb.  WiiSports is a fun title that I'm really glad I didn't have to pay for it (though since the Wii costs more here than in Japan I guess I was forced to buy it).  It's fun but limited and intentionally so because of the non-gamer focus.  Twilight Princess is a Gamecube game.  If you own a Gamecube and bought a Wii specifically for that game you're a sucker and Nintendo ripped you off.  And the third party support sucked then and sucks now.  Take away the non-exclusive Zelda game and the Wii launch lineup is really crappy.  I don't care how much it sold.  My whole point is that it's kind of a bummer for me that Nintendo finally got back on top with THIS console.  With THIS weak launch lineup and weak third party support and emphasis on the mainstream.

"I hate to say this but you definitely need to rethink the way you look at Nintendo and games in general. I've never seen anyone take so deeply to heart the businesses of a company."

What about those that see the need to defend everything Nintendo does no matter if it benefits them or deprives them of something?  What about those who never wish to see fault in Nintendo?  You can accuse me of being too critical.  If that's your opinion of me you're allowed to have it, though I don't think it's accurate.  Why do those that always praise Nintendo not get the same grief?  There are people here that seem to think that being a fan of Nintendo means liking them and supporting them always.  I've pretty much seen some outright DOUBLETHINK here in attempts to defend Nintendo's actions.  Hell this whole discussion seems to have resulted because I dared express a negative opinion about the Wii.

I think at this point the Wii is the worst of the Nintendo consoles and considering that Nintendo consoles are typically of high quality that's not even necessarily a bad thing.  I've got some logical reasons to have formed this opinion and yet this like a big controversy.  If I should rethink how I look at Nintendo I don't think I'm the only one.

[UERD]

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third party support

I would argue that third-party support is deficient right now because of the fact that very few developers were anticipating that the Wii would do any better than third, or at best tied for second, this generation. If you want verification, you can go to any mainstream gaming website (or even many business websites) and look through their archives for analyst predictions. The general consensus seemed to be Sony keeping the lead, MS possibly tying them for second, and the Wii a distant third again. People said that the controller was nothing more than a gimmick, the console was significantly underpowered, the unimpressive online service would play a role in keeping them last, etc.

Now, if you were the person working for a studio in charge of deciding what platforms you were going to develop for next generation, and what games you were going to develop, and you were making these decisions months before the Wii launched, what would you logically think? Probably something like this: "PS3 is probably going to have a huge audience, and the 360's lead is rock solid, so let's develop our cinematic, big-budget FPSes, RPGs, and traditional franchises for those two consoles. Wii sounds interesting, but Nintendo is going to have to work real hard to gain back marketshare, and the hardware is weak, and the controller is unproven, so let's do some cheap-to-develop casual games for the system or some second-tier franchises so that we can call ourselves platform-agnostic." Why would you do otherwise? How would you justify developing big-budget games for the Wii to the person in charge of greenlighting projects?

It doesn't end there, though. Even after the Wii was released, developers had no reason to believe that initial Wii sales would sustain themselves through the holiday season and beyond. They weren't going to make a snap decision to start devoting serious resources to the Wii when millions of dollars worth of development money was at stake. So that's another couple of months after the release of the Wii where developers still didn't have a good reason to start spending large amounts of money to support the Wii.

It's been what, ten months? How long does it take to make a really good game? Not eight months, not necessarily a year, but quite a bit longer. So I think people have a good reason to be skeptical of claims that the Wii is 'not living up to its third-party potential'. In another couple of months, we'll be in a better position to judge- there will be new product announcements, commitments, etc. Maybe events will prove or disprove this argument. Maybe third-parties will stay away from the console for good, at which point this argument becomes null and void. But saying that 'Nintendo has dropped the ball on third-party' at this point in time is shooting blindly into the dark.  

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
UncleBob why are you including two games that are not out yet for the Wii?

Because those two games will be out in the first year of the Wii's life (well, really close, in the case of SSBB).  As I said, the Wii hasn't even been out a year and you're confident in your claim that it's Nintendo's worst system ever.  Before the year is up, we'll have Super Mario Galaxy and almost have SSBB - so I feel okay about adding them to the list.  But heck, take them and the VC off and you're at the same amount of "Stellar" games you had for the N64.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Plus the entire Virtual Console should not be included.  Games from old consoles don't count for the obvious reason that no one has to buy the new console to play it.

Unless these old games are re-released for the new console and aren't a reasonable purchase on an older console.  Seriously, there are great games on the VC that you can't easily get elsewhere.  Counting them are fine, IMHO.  We're looking at all the games you can purchase for the Wii right now, right?

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
If you own a Cube buying a Wii for Twilight Princess and Resident Evil 4 wouldn't be a very logical buy.

First off, that *if* is a pretty big if... I mean, how many people still own their Game Cube?  Additionally, it could be a logical buy if you want the awesome wide screen display on Zelda or want the neat-o controls on RE4.  Your comment is like saying that getting an XBox to play a game you can play on your GameCube isn't a logical buy, even if the XBox version is online.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
And Star Fox 64 clearly makes use of the N64.  It could never have been possible, as is, on the SNES.  Super Paper Mario pretty much looks exactly like it did when it was on the Gamecube.

Is that so?  I didn't know you managed to play though the entire GameCube version of the game.  Additionally, I didn't know games were only about their graphics.  So what if Super Paper Mario looked just like what it would have on the Game Cube version - would you have had the waggle controls on the GCN?

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I count it anyway so it really doesn't matter but right now Metroid Prime 3 is the only Wii title that really appears to be pushing the Wii hardware.

You have a weird way of enjoying games.  See, when I play games, I like to play games I enjoy.  I could care less if they "push the hardware".  Doesn't me a thing to me.  One of my favorite games on the GBA is the Game and Watch Gallery collection... but then, that's probably some stupid mini-game collection you don't care about, eh?

All well, so Ian thinks the Wii is the worst Nintendo console ever.  Guess it doesn't really matter, as the Wii has OUTSOLD every other current generation console...  heck, at this rate, it's going to outsell the GameCube, XBox.  But poor Ian.  If only he'd learn to play games because their fun instead of only playing games that "push the hardware" and look pretty.

[Ian Sane]

Why does this "fun" arguement always come up?  It's such a cop-out.  "Well I guess you don't like fun games."  "Well sorry but I like games that are fun."  Were the best games prior to the Wii not fun?  I had fun with those games.  We all did.  No one here suggested otherwise until Nintendo told them to.  And it's like "fun" has become some sort of factual statement.  "Non-games are fun.  The old style of gaming isn't."  Fun is an opinion.  I don't find WiiSports that fun because it's dumbed down to the point that I get bored of it quickly.  I find Metroid Prime 3 to be fun because I really enjoy the experience it provides and part of that is because the game has enought depth to keep me interested for a good period of time.  Let's not turn "fun" into some bullsh!t Nintendo marketing buzzword.

I play games because they're fun.  I don't find Nintendo's non-games fun because they're dumbed-down to a point where they don't hold my interest and thus get boring quickly.  Boring = not fun.

"So what if Super Paper Mario looked just like what it would have on the Game Cube version - would you have had the waggle controls on the GCN?"

No.  There's no need to use motion gestures to replace buttons when there is already enough buttons on the controller.  Never use "waggle" as justification for motion control.  That's the exact type of g!mmicky usage that I protest, and use as proof that the remote is not a valid replacement for the old design.  It's like is someone accuses Nintendo of being k!ddy and then you use Wind Waker to defend that it's not.  When pushing motion control promote logical usage like WiiSports or Metroid Prime 3 where the game could likely not have been done with the old design.  "Waggle" just shows the Super Paper Mario not only could have been done on the Cube but would have likely had more accurate controls if it did.

So why are you thread crapping? Cut it out, its getting really old.

-The Management

[Kairon]

The worst Nintendo console ever released was the Gamecube, not the Wii. The GameCube's GAME line-up was slightly deeper, but the Wii has one huge thing that the GC lacked: Wii Sports. And in a catch-22: Wii Sports owes its very existence to the Wii.

... basically, it comes down to this: the conventional wisdom that software is more important than hardware is misleading, if not false. You have to look at Nintendo games as the whole package, the way Nintendo does: Videogames are BOTH hardware and software. It's a union, a combination, a complete integration that means you can't be narrow-minded or have a one-track vision of what needs to be done.

The Wii hardware enables the Wii software. The Wii software sells the hardware. It's a yin and yang, a balance, a relationship that will be at its strongest when both sides feed into and complement the other.

That's one reason why the Wii is one of Nintendo's best consoles ever, in my opinion a better piece of videogame hardware than the SNES or Gamecube. It isn't just a lump of technology simply flopped down waiting to be ravaged for graphical output by developers over and over again. Instead, it's an enabler of gaming, a muse, an oracle, a partner, and finally something that can contribute to the world of gaming instead of just serving stuff up on a platter mutely.

The Wii doesn't just sit there passively like the PS3 and wait for the world to have its way with it. Instead, it stares the world down with a question, a challenge, a dare to create something new, different, special, unique... and out of the ordinary.

[Ian Sane]

"The Wii doesn't just sit there passively like the PS3 and wait for the world to have its way with it. Instead, it stares the world down with a question, a challenge, a dare to create something new, different, special, unique... and out of the ordinary."

And the world responds by giving it last-gen ports with new waggle controls.  With a console the games are everything.  The N64 challenged the world more than the SNES did but the SNES is widely regarded as better because it had way more awesome games.  The Virtual Boy challenged the world and was clearly innovative but is easily Nintendo's worst videogame system.  Computer technology is just a tool.  The software is everything or else the hardware is just a clump of nifty looking chips and doodads.  From a hardware point of view the Cube was pretty damn good.  The controller was really comfy and the console had great graphics and short load times and was very durable and reliable.  The PS2 in comparison was underpowered, had a really uncomfortable controller and the damn thing broke or malfunctioned easily.


Get back on topic and quit picking fights. This is your last warning.

- The Management

[Kairon]

Well, then, the Wii has Wii Sports, which is head and shoulders above any other piece of software on a console at this point in time... and even though the rest of the world may be disappointing with their porting and lackluster efforts so far, Nintendo has the Wii HARDWARE to thank for the existence of this single colossal killer app. The hardware enabled the software and vice versa.

What I'm saying Ian, is that the Wii is a much better "tool" for making games than you give it credit for. Sure, the GameCube was technically impressive, but it was just another hammer. The PS3 and XBox 360 are just bigger, shinier hammers. When that's all you have, all videogames will ever end up as are nails.

The Wii is an altogether different sort of tool, and that's why it's succeeding so wildly. It's the first videogame hardware in a long while to suggest that there's more to gaming than pounding buttons. Sure, as a hammer, (piece of technical graphical hardware) it's very lackluster. But there's gotta be more in the gaming toolbox than just nails and hammers, dontcha think?

... so in conclusion, I agree with you Ian. The Nintendo Wii is the worst "hammer" that Nintendo has made in a long while. But it's a great... uh... screwdriver. Yeah. The Wii is a great screwdriver. And people need screwdrivers.

[UncleBob]

Ian - I never said the old games aren't fun.  I play plenty of them.  Doesn't change the fact today's days are just as fun.  Sorry that you don't like the non-games and the mini-games, but I, along with, apparently 10 million other families apparently do.  And you know what?  We like Waggle.

Correction.  Wii like waggle.  Go buy yourself a 360 or PS3.  It sounds like the Wii just isn't for you.

[Smash_Brother]

Wii Sports isn't a non-game, and if it doesn't entice you, Ian, that's because you don't have an opponent who is good enough to present a challenge.

Sports is only as hard as the opponents you face. It's a game which has universal appeal, yes, but at the highest level, the game is incredibly deep.

[NWR_pap64]

Thinking about it, the Wii is definitely not for people who thought that the next Nintendo console should have been the Gamecube 2.0 with hi def gaming and other hardcore features. One of my friends (who is also an anti Wii gamer) believes that this should have been an additional peripheral for the GC, not their next console.

Simply put the Wii is not for gamers who just wanted a highly technological GC. It breaks tradition, and not everybody is ready to leave tradition behind.

[King of Twitch]

Way to snatch triumph from the jaws of the greatest gaming moment of the past 10 years. Acid rain on my parade.

[Mashiro]

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Go buy yourself a 360 or PS3. It sounds like the Wii just isn't for you.

I think everyone on these forums realize it is what he should do . . . except for Ian lol.

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Simply put the Wii is not for gamers who just wanted a highly technological GC. It breaks tradition, and not everybody is ready to leave tradition behind.

But isn't the Wii a more highly technological GC?

Besides just because it breaks traditions doesn't mean the traditions it breaks are bad.

For example: Resident Evil 4 is arguably the best RE to date on Wii. Why? Because the Wii controls allow the game to be all that much better. Metroid Prime 3 benefits similarly.

The Wii may help enhance traditional gameplay, it may even introduce new gameplay methods and ideology for various games but the console isn't forcing traditions to be left behind.

It's merely enhancing the gameplay experience, at least that is how I see it.

[Kairon]

If breaking old traditions means I can finally play Metroid and Resident Evil 4... I think I've got reason to be optimistic.

[IceCold]

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I think Nintendo should send a thank-you card to Sony for f*cking up pretty much everything with the PS3. Without Sony's severe incompetance this day would have never been possible. Now Nintendo found a formula that worked and was dead-on about the change in the Japanese market. But still, like Sony before them, they got lucky and benefited from the previous market leader being a complete dumbass.

I've always disagreed with this, and I always will. Nintendo just got the perfect strategy for the Wii - they differentiated themselves and put the marketing in the hands of the console development. If the PS3 had launched at $400 or even $350, the Wii might have done a bit worse, but not by much. Basically, the Wii is Nintendo's accomplishment through and through. Sony's screwups had little to do with it - if Nintendo had launched an upgraded GameCube, it would have still bombed horribly.

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. I think we as Nintendo fans deserve better than what we've got so far on the Wii. The third party support is horrible for example.

And is that Nintendo's fault? They've basically laid the table for third parties - lower costs for developer kits, much lower cost to develop a Wii game, highest userbase and software tie-in ratio, and potential for innovation. It's just that the whole industry has a mental block when it comes to Nintendo.. hopefully the dollars change their minds.