Author Topic: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)  (Read 29574 times)

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Offline gojira

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2011, 10:15:32 PM »
So I did find my N64 and copy of Perfect Dark.  With the Hi-rez mode turned on and having hooked the game up to my 42" Plasma with S-Video it looked pretty good.  Obviously not as good as the HD port, and the lower frame rate is noticeable. 

I did put a lot of time into the game.  I completed all levels of every weapon on the training mode.  And it looks like what I did was basically play king of the hill like I said.  I even had the weapon setup made for that type of game (laptop gun, dragon).   My team was me and Miyamoto with an alien body against a handful of sims. 

I can't really talk too much about it versus other multiplayer shooters since I haven't really played any.  But I felt it was immensely better than Goldeneye due to the added modes, the customization and especially the addition of sims. 

And the only modern multiplayer shooter I've played is War for Cybertron.  Which I feel is much better than Perfect Dark.  For one I'm playing against real people.  Also there are different types of characters to choose from.  All which makes each session different.  I'm still playing basically the same king of the hill type mode.  The weapons maybe aren't as interesting since they don't have those dual modes.  But I do enjoy the loadouts, leveling up, streaks and whatnot are now basic in shooters.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2011, 10:41:24 PM »
For me, Perfect Dark just has the perfect (sorry, but it's true) balance of everything. It has enough variations and gameplay conventions to keep things interesting without becoming too complex like most modern shooters.

The AI bots in the multiplayer is something that more shooters these days need to have. I don't like to play games competitively so I would always team up with my friends to take on the horde of simulants. Sure, online shooters let you team up with friends to challenge the world, but they have to play on their own system, we can't go online from just one. Also, some of the people who play online spend way too much time playing and are impossibly good, which is no fun. If anything, bots are needed now more than ever so that people can have some beatable opponents to practice the game with in an offline setting.

Beyond that, there are some gameplay conventions I don't particularly care for these days. One is the running mechanic, where you have to hold a button to run and can't fire your weapon while you do. I feel this does nothing but slow down the gameplay. Second is the ridiculous jump height in games like Halo and The Conduit, it just makes everyone hop around like a moron and requires you to do the same in order to survive. I also can't say I'm a fan of preset loadouts for each individual player, and instead like having a set of six weapons per match. I feel the game is more balanced without every weapon in the game possibly coming into play. Perfect Dark has none of this nonsense and it is a better game for it.

So, yeah. I enjoy Perfect Dark because of what would be considered "simplicity" by today's gaming crowd. It provides straight-up shooty shooty action without any of the contrived features and tactical nonsense that make it too complex and slow to be any fun.

Offline GearBoxClock

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2011, 10:50:46 PM »
You know what's strange? The Perfect Dark gameboy colour game. Extremely difficult. I found a copy at a flea market. Apprently it unlocks some cheats in the main game.

I absolutely love PD and have fond memories of sticking mines on bots and telling them to find the other player. And dark sims. Goddamn. The only time I ever killed one was with the far-sight turned off, while hiding in a closet with a laptop turret and a remote missile.
*edit* The gbc game has a rumble pack
*edit2* I read that you can unlock a Skedar model for MP, anyone know anything about that?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 11:18:06 PM by GearBoxClock »
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Offline lolmonade

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2011, 11:34:27 PM »
Just realized I didn't need a memory card...I feel foolish now.

Anyway, plugged a few hours into multiplayer.  Because my friends are all across the country, and my wife struggles with handling the controls for Portal 2 co-op, I decided to just play a few of the challenges and get a match or two in with the bots. 

Actual gameplay graphics are better than I expected.  The maps seem very tight and deliberate in their design, as opposed to what I've seen in the last current-gen FPS i've played (COD4: MW), where a lot of them seem like a series of large open rooms.  I didn't notice any considerable slowdown, although I didn't play a match with more than 3 players, and if my memory serves me correctly, the heavy framerate drops don't occur until there are 5+ characters in a match.

I think there are two main differences between Perfect Dark and modern FPSs multiplayer:

1) RPG Elements in multiplayer - I don't recall seeing players getting the option to use better equipment based on how well/long they play prior to modern shooters.  I experienced the problems with this firsthand when I got COD4: MW a few years after the game came out for PS3.  I began multiplayer with a big handicap not only due to the disparity in skill, but also due to them having an unfair advantage in weapons, armor, and skill upgrades.

2) Departure from split-screen multiplayer - The best part of Perfect Dark (and to a lesser extent Goldeneye) multiplayer is that you are sitting with your friends playing the game.  My best memories are playing this game with my friend, putting a cardboard divider between the screens to prevent screen watchers, and both of us pitting ourselves against as many sims as we can withstand.  Also finding clever new ways to trap sims into a corridor and get multi-kills.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2011, 11:42:57 PM »
So I did find my N64 and copy of Perfect Dark.  With the Hi-rez mode turned on and having hooked the game up to my 42" Plasma with S-Video it looked pretty good.  Obviously not as good as the HD port, and the lower frame rate is noticeable.
If you play with Hi-Res off, the framerate will be considerably better. Still not smooth by any means, but definitely manageable.

Offline Crimm

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2011, 12:12:40 AM »
This game has hilarious voice acting
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Offline Stardust

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2011, 11:42:53 AM »
First thing I have to say is that I agree with Crimm. The voice acting is hilarious. Other than that, I'd like to ask the rfn crew (for the podcast ) and for anyone else, I'm playing Perfect dark on the 360 (My gamertag is beastxxshadowxx btw) and it looks really good to me. So far, I'm loving the gameplay and the cool scenario dark finds herself in. The only I've had is figuring out what to do next for some kind of puzzle, thats not really a puzzle, its more like you don't know what to do and you've looked in every room and berating your self going WTF! Have any of you (Rfn crew and forum) encountered a problem like this? and if  so, in what level or mission?
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Offline Crimm

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2011, 12:41:40 PM »
Yeah, the first mission. Left a body guard alive on a floor. Heaven forbid I not fully sweep every room while under fire from a helicopter.


I've noticed that the game's AI is far more dreadful than I remember, leading me to conclude (in conjunction with what I have seen playing online with Jon/Jonny) that the "skilled" sims must be "cheating." I've had sims that were behind me suddenly cut me off (and to bits) in a way that simply seems impossible. I've had them start firing before they turn a corner, as if they know exactly what spot I'm situated in beyond what one could discern from radar. Etc.


In the single player the game makes up for the poor AI via volume of fire. If one stupid enemy can't kill you, why not 20? Even the very first level, Joanna feels like she's on a personal mission to commit genocide. It's actually a bit jarring exactly how many people she kills in a mission that former Community manager (now a cat-drug pusher) beat in under three minutes.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2011, 06:50:34 PM »
I've had sims that were behind me suddenly cut me off (and to bits) in a way that simply seems impossible. I've had them start firing before they turn a corner, as if they know exactly what spot I'm situated in beyond what one could discern from radar. Etc.
That's how they work. Darksims (if they are still called that) move faster than what is possible for a player, and they are always aware of your location. If you were to use the Farsight weapon and follow a Darksim's movement, you would notice that they are always facing your direction as they move about the level. Their instruction set goes like this: find a weapon > grab a shield (if applicable) > kill you dead.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2011, 06:59:20 PM »
If I remember correctly, with the harder challenges, there would be a way to cheese it with a particular tactic and/or weapons that the sims couldn't do like using the secondaries. Once you figure out what it was, it becomes a lot easier. Also some challenges were near impossible without a second player and others were easier with only one player.

But yeah, Dark sims quite literally cheat.
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Offline gojira

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2011, 09:56:27 PM »

Beyond that, there are some gameplay conventions I don't particularly care for these days. One is the running mechanic, where you have to hold a button to run and can't fire your weapon while you do. I feel this does nothing but slow down the gameplay. ... I also can't say I'm a fan of preset loadouts for each individual player, and instead like having a set of six weapons per match. I feel the game is more balanced without every weapon in the game possibly coming into play. Perfect Dark has none of this nonsense and it is a better game for it.


I've been playing some combat challenges and I would kill for a run button at times.  I don't know how many times I looked to the onscreen indicator just to verify that I'm indeed standing up and not crouching because the game can be so slow at times.

Also at least with a preset loadout when you respawn you have some weapons.  I get really upset when I get killed two seconds after respawning.  Or if you're playing somthing like a king of the hill mode you have to waste time gathering up weapons and shields because you know the enemy is going to be fully loaded.

These instances might be different when playing against real people, but so far I've only seen two types of sims.  Meat sims which are a joke and everything else which all seem to be too smart.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2011, 11:04:40 PM »
I've been playing some combat challenges and I would kill for a run button at times.  I don't know how many times I looked to the onscreen indicator just to verify that I'm indeed standing up and not crouching because the game can be so slow at times.
It won't help with challenges, but there is a Fast Movement option you can use for normal games. Adjusting the game speed is definitely something current shooters should have but most (all?) lack.

Also at least with a preset loadout when you respawn you have some weapons.  I get really upset when I get killed two seconds after respawning.  Or if you're playing somthing like a king of the hill mode you have to waste time gathering up weapons and shields because you know the enemy is going to be fully loaded.
I agree it can be an issue, but I still like it better. There should be a "start with weapon" option like there is in TimeSplitters, where you start with the weapon in slot 1. And maybe even a "start with every weapon" where you have all six. The bottom line is, there should be more options for setups in games these days instead of being forced to use one way to play.

Offline Crimm

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2011, 11:59:39 PM »
Tomorrow night, 9 PM Eastern, if you'll be there include your XBL handle.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2011, 12:19:03 AM »
Tomorrow night, 9 PM Eastern, if you'll be there include your XBL handle.

I already posted mine earlier in the thread, but here it is again: broodwars64.  This should be fun.  I haven't played Perfect Dark multi since the N64 days.
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Offline gojira

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2011, 08:31:29 PM »
Tomorrow night, 9 PM Eastern, if you'll be there include your XBL handle.

I already posted mine earlier in the thread, but here it is again: broodwars64.  This should be fun.  I haven't played Perfect Dark multi since the N64 days.

I'll repost as well.  gojira1980

Offline Crimm

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2011, 09:09:20 PM »
Both sent
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Offline broodwars

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2011, 09:27:29 PM »
Yeah, sorry all.  I have a cross-country bit of family business that got moved up a day unexpectedly, so I'm busy packing right now and can't participate.
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Offline Nik Vendiers

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2011, 09:37:01 PM »
I just happened to be checking out the retroactive post after catching up on the last few episodes and I had missed the last multiplayer event, if it ever ended up even happening, but if someone hosting the thing tonight sees this and the session is still going to happen, send me an invite please :D

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2011, 12:17:53 AM »
We're going to do another session tomorrow night. Same time, 9 Eastern.
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Offline gojira

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2011, 12:43:01 AM »
Good games tonight.  Although I felt a bit non-communicative with the combination of my crappy xbox headset and not being a super talkative person in general.  Anyway, I should be able to be around for tomorrow as well.

Offline Nik Vendiers

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2011, 12:51:53 AM »
Aside from entering the multiplayer session last minute, I actually do want to talk about the game itself as a part of Retroactive. Although I really have little to say compared to the people who have played the game since the original N64 release, as I have only played the game for under a year since I downloaded it during the summer of gaming sale on XBLA last year. I'm not sure how I missed this game when it was first released but I suppose it was because I was younger and not really into First Person Shooters but instead played Super Mario 64, Smash Bros and Mario Kart for most of the time that I had my N64. It wasn't until Metroid Prime 2 on the Gamecube that I really discovered the FPS genre. Coming back to some of the older titles such as now with Perfect Dark and hopefully soon to pick up Goldeneye on Wii, yeah I know it's still not the "Retro" version but, close enough right? anyhow, I think if I would have played it back then, being only 17 now, I would have been under 10 when I got my N64, I probably would have been turned off of the FPS genre had I gotten into it at a early age. The controls are far from smooth, frame rate causes characters to often glitch across the screen and altogether difficult to master the controls. Granted you could argue that this point would be only relative to playing more modern games as going back to Super Mario 64 the controls are also very "Bad", but when I first played Halo 2 after I started to get into First Person Shooters, I really wasn't blown away by it. It took me awhile to get the hang of the dual analog controls with moving and looking at the same time, and granted with time it soon became one of my favorite games, even though at the time I didn't have an xbox. In the end I believe that had I started earlier I wouldn't have caught on as quickly and would have most likely completely rejected the genre of games in place of my more preferred and in general "simpler" Mario titles. My final point in all of this is to simply say that from my point of view, as a gamer who got into the FPS genre more recently with more modern games, the multiplayer is quite broken, although that is not to say it isn't fun. We just finished the community session with James, and that was one of the most fun I have had playing a simple yet "complicated" retro game.

In terms of campaign the game can get more credit from me than it can in terms of the multiplayer learning curve that I compared to when I first got into shooters in general. On terms of gameplay I found it to be much smoother than with the multiplayer. It rarely gave me reason to gripe about bad performance and generally ran pretty smooth, and for an older game, had I played it when it first came out, I would have been impressed with the graphics, in fact, still am. It is indeed a game that had aged well with a history of over ten years under its belt, and can be played without cringing your eyes in pain over terrible graphics, better than can be said for some "new" games I have played on the xbox 360. In terms of story, well, I hope I'm not the only one who played through and during the credit roll just said "what the hell just happened?" The campaign is fun to play offering interesting objectives to which I'm not sure if there are any differences between the xbox version and original N64 but I doubt it. I only played on one of the easy difficulties, although I did do the first level on the hardest difficulty for an achievement and can say that I wasn't fun. The game just throws so many bullets at you while making you do many more objectives then are required on the easy mode that it's barely possible to play, let alone finish, which I was only able to do by following a speed run that cuts most of the level out. Aside from the difficulty, just throw it on easy and play through the game, it's definitely worth playing and as it's not very long of a game unless you just find a reason to be utterly disgusted by the game, you should be engrossed in it to not be bored until you reach the end. This is helped by the way in which the game gives you newer weapons to use throughout the game and if on the 360, my personal favorites: Achievements. In the end it is a good game and worth getting as it's only around ten bucks on XBLA, or if you want to go retro I have no idea how much it runs, or the cost of the expansion card thing which is required to play most of the content on the actual game. My outlook on the game may be a little more critical than what some others may think based on the reason that I don't have the same nostalgia value towards it that they might, but I believe I give it a fair shot and if you get bored of Smash Bros, this is a good retro shooter to pull out during a LAN party.

So, I'm not sure if there is a real reason or specific point that is supposed to be covered in Retroactive posts, but here is my two cents about Perfect Dark, my history with it, and opinions. After over two years of being a behind the curtain member, and even longer that I've been listening to the podcast, I think it's about time that I truly join the community and participate with Retroactive.

Good games guys and I look forward to more community activities in the future. After tonight, I'll be sure not to miss any! :D

Offline adadad

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2011, 10:47:12 AM »
Hey Nik, cool post, good to have you joining in the discussion. Just to comment on what you wrote about the controls.

I haven't played the XBLA version but it sounds as though the control scheme has been updated. In the original game the default control is not dual analog. You use the N64 analog stick to look left and right and move backwards and forwards. You can strafe and look up and down with the C-buttons but it's not usually necessary to use them, unlike a dual analog setup which absolutely requires you to use both sticks to get around. So in this sense I think Goldeneye and Perfect Dark on the N64 are actually quite hospitable to newcomers. I'm only a few years older than you, and so I was playing Goldeneye from around the age of 8 or 9 (incidentally that was why I was not able to play Perfect Dark at the time; in the UK Perfect Dark was given a 15 rating, and my parents refused to buy it for me), and the basic controls were fine for me. Since you were never required to strafe on the main stick, strafing with the C-buttons was something you graduated up to, so to speak.

Bear in mind both Goldeneye, and to a lesser extent Perfect Dark, were part of the very first wave of console first person shooters. There was no standard for how a console shooter ought to control, unlike now, and also many people just weren't used to controlling in 3D yet. That's one of the trade-offs for dual analog shooters nowadays - they allow for much more control than other control schemes, but they are also far less accessible for newcomers than Doom and Quake were.

While we're on the topic of the controls, I'd also like to mention the dual analog option on the N64. I feel like an idiot because I only just figured out today how you can accomplish this with two controllers (control schemes 2.2 and 2.4), but five minutes of play later and I'm finding it's a real struggle because of the N64's slightly dodgy analog sticks, which just aren't cut out for precision aiming. I'm going to keep practising and see where it gets me, but I seriously doubt that I'm going to lose the ability to get my ass handed to me by the high-level bots any time soon.

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2011, 11:54:38 AM »
Don't have my headset on me, so you won't be able to yell at me for screwing up the plan. Or include me in it at all. =P


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Offline Nik Vendiers

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2011, 01:34:51 PM »
Not going to quote as that would stretch the page to a ridiculous length for only a few replies, so to Adadad:

Duh, I completely forgot, as I haven't actually dug out my N64 from the depth of my closet in years, that the N64 only had one analog stick. feel pretty foolish now... :P:

Anyhow on that note, Now I must destroy my ethos and reconsider my previous post as I'm not sure how I would have handled the controls had I played it when it was released. On one hand I may have picked it up with the same learning curve as I did with the first FPS that I played, Metroid Prime 2, or being younger and more preoccupied with simpler titles my previous post may still have applied and I would have still rejected first person titles in place of those other platformers. Since now that I realise that Perfect Dark set the precedent for the 3D Metroid games with it's "simpler" albeit terrible set of controls I refer to as "freeze-frame aiming" I may have just picked it up at the same pace. Although on a side note as my parents at the time were extremely controlling over the rating of the games that I played, there would be no chance they would have ever gotten the game for me with its "M" rating so I suppose either way things would have led the same way.

I see your point that those older titles with their "bad controls" at the time were indeed laying the road for first person controls for consol gaming. Although I can't fully appreciate the controls themselves as to me its quite clunky, I can appreciate the precedent it sets, as I suppose without these clunky controls we wouldn't have the more fine tuned aiming systems that we have today.

Although I have found many reasons to bash on the game, I don't want to leave the impression that I think it is a bad game. Although I don't have the same retro-nostalgic attachment to Perfect Dark as others have, it's still fun to play and offers a variety of modes and setting that modern games have strayed away from. Although you could say that some of the more off the wall type games in Call of Duty: Black Ops could have been inspired by some of the settings in those older titles. It is fun to play a shooter that really does not take itself seriously and offers gameplay that while "modern" gamers might have a slight period of adjustment to older controls, is just plain fun to play.

I've never heard of being able to use two controllers to play with a dual analog setup? although as I've never played shooters on the N64 that may be why...

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Re: RFN RetroActive #18 - Perfect Dark (N64/XBLA)
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2011, 07:21:25 PM »
I've never heard of being able to use two controllers to play with a dual analog setup? although as I've never played shooters on the N64 that may be why...

It's featured in both Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, although when I was young to me it just seemed like a way of playing co-op, so I would play with my brother sometimes with him moving and me aiming and shooting. As you can probably imagine, that made getting through missions a lot more difficult and would result in much yelling and arguing.

I've been playing a lot of Perfect Dark today, in particular I am proud because I finally beat the last (regular) mission. And god, what a load of crap. I know I already complained about it, but it's so infuriating to spend so much time trundling through the mission only to die at the final boss. Even though I replayed the mission at least 15 times - a conservative guess - and knew exactly what to do, my final completion time on the level was still 10 minutes. The whole level is just an exercise in frustration and I feel as though it offers a neat summary of the game's failings as a singleplayer game. Towards the end of the final level I got the impression that Rare are aiming for a suspenseful atmosphere - the corridors are mostly dark as the lights flicker, and little aliens (a blatant rip off of headcrabs from Half-Life) jump at you. Following this, there's a sequence in which you are trapped in a room and assaulted by 10 Skedar soldiers (another blatant rip off, this time of the Vortigaunt creatures in Half-Life) consecutively. It's cool the first time, but inevitably during subsequent retries these sections quickly become tedious as they're both completely linear and require little to no strategy. I think Oohhboy made a good point in the talkback thread about the Carrington Villa mission: replaying that mission is enjoyable because there are alternative routes through the level and a variety of strategies for tackling objectives.

My impression of Perfect Dark's singleplayer though so far (finished on the easy difficulty and now starting over on the middle) is that it gets bogged down trying to imitate the modern Half-Life style of gameplay, by stretching the levels out in an attempt to offer players an atmospheric or cinematic experience, as opposed to Goldeneye's more arcade-y levels. Did Rare forget that missions like Runway in Goldeneye could easily be beaten in under two minutes, and that perhaps made the level fun? Perfect Dark is excessive, decadent even by comparison, with the boss fights and expansive levels, but it lacks the structure to facilitate that sort of gameplay. A single stage or mission without a checkpoint can only offer so much before the prospect of losing and having to repeat the stage becomes a source of frustration. This could easily have been resolved if missions were split up better: as it is they're mostly too damn big with too many objectives. And at times, such as in the final mission, the levels are bogged down with the sort of challenges and events that are fun to do only a very limited number of times before they start to lose their appeal. A series of linear corridors in darkness facing off against headcrabs can only be suspenseful once or twice in succession, because after the first time you know what's going to happen next, and exactly where that thing's going to jump out at you, etc.

Despite all my negative words for Perfect Dark's singleplayer, I'm grateful for this Retroactive, because it has shown me the appeal of Perfect Dark's multiplayer, which I had never really understood before. While I think I still marginally prefer Goldeneye for multiplayer parties, I can completely understand why someone would prefer Perfect Dark for its bots and its nutty arsenal. In singleplayer though I don't think there's any contest. Perfect Dark has a few good missions (the opening mission and the Carrington Villa are both good levels), but Goldeneye is a far tighter experience overall in my opinion. That's not that to say that Goldeneye is without its clunkers mind you. Still, I'll carry on going through Perfect Dark's missions tomorrow, and I hope that they'll leave me with a more positive taste in my mouth.