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Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: tendoboy1984 on July 24, 2012, 07:11:33 PM

Title: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: tendoboy1984 on July 24, 2012, 07:11:33 PM
I found this in the latest "Iwata Asks" article.

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Iwata -
According to the original specifications, if you were playing while charging, you were surpassing the capacity of the existing AC adapter. For that reason, there was a time that, you thought you might have to prepare a special version.

Koshiishi -
Yeah. But later on, through cooperation with the manufacturer, we were able to get by with the existing adapter. We also discussed cost and whether we needed to include the charging cradle. And you suggested not including the AC adapter.

(Editor's note: The North American version of the Nintendo 3DS XL does include an AC adapter.)

Iwata - That's right.

Koshiishi -
We worried over it, but during that time, all the groups within the company naturally shared a desire to separate what was absolutely necessary and what wasn't. In the end, we decided that it was best to sell the AC adapter and the charging cradle separately.

Iwata -
About the AC adapter, this is the fourth of this type since the Nintendo DSi13 system, so I think many people have the previous AC adapters. That being the case, we thought we should make it easier, even if just a little, to buy the system. However, you have to have the stores notify shoppers that this product doesn't come with an AC adapter, so if you don't already have one, you have to buy it separately. This project required the sales division to be thorough on that point as well.

Koshiishi -
That's right. I was relieved that everyone on the staff understood that we were saying to the players, "We won't make you pay for something you don't need."

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"We won't make you pay for something you don't need."

What a bullshit excuse. The device needs an AC adapter to charge, yet Nintendo expects consumers to pay extra for a necessary item? I guess the company really is out of touch with reality.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Ian Sane on July 24, 2012, 07:27:14 PM
I paid extra for my GBA AC adapter but the original GBA model used AA batteries.  Back then the AC adapter was very much an optional accessory.  But to claim the 3DS XL doesn't need one isn't being out-of-touch; it's an outright LIE.  If the only way to spin your greedy decision in a way that doesn't outright admit that you're ripping consumers off is to lie, maybe you should rethink the whole thing.

And any concept of seperating what is or isn't necessary is complete horseshit when Nintendo's whole console business model these days is to force in stupid gimmick controllers to attract rubes.  So it's okay to force me to buy useless junk that most games wouldn't need (but will undoubtable have shoehorned in) but not to force me to buy something I clearly fucking need if I wish to play my system for more than a few hours?
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: tendoboy1984 on July 24, 2012, 07:30:46 PM
I paid extra for my GBA AC adapter but the original GBA model used AA batteries.  Back then the AC adapter was very much an optional accessory.  But to claim the 3DS XL doesn't need one isn't being out-of-touch; it's an outright LIE.  If the only way to spin your greedy decision in a way that doesn't outright admit that you're ripping consumers off is to lie, maybe you should rethink the whole thing.

And any concept of seperating what is or isn't necessary is complete horseshit when Nintendo's whole console business model these days is to force in stupid gimmick controllers to attract rubes.  So it's okay to force me to buy useless junk that most games wouldn't need (but will undoubtable have shoehorned in) but not to force me to buy something I clearly fucking need if I wish to play my system for more than a few hours?


Exactly. But luckily Reggie had an epiphany and realized an AC adapter is necessary for charging a handheld, so it will be included with the system in North America.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 24, 2012, 07:31:22 PM
Nintendo's working under the assumption that a significant portion of the people who buy a 3DS XL already own a standard 3DS or a DSi XL, both of which use the same charging cable. Those people don't necessarily need another one.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Kairon on July 24, 2012, 07:32:11 PM
Nothing dramatic here: Nintendo is trying really, really hard to get back to profitability.

I mean, the 3DS XL is a major part of that effort since they're essentially raising the price versus the regular 3DS here. After all, a major reason that keeps coming up as to why they posted the loss is that they were selling the 3DS at below cost, so I figure they're keen to reduce costs as much as possible with whatever comes in the box. Hence, no included AC Adapter in Japan since they figure people already have access to them... or will pay Nintendo more money to get them.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: tendoboy1984 on July 24, 2012, 07:35:38 PM
Nintendo's working under the assumption that a significant portion of the people who buy a 3DS XL already own a standard 3DS or a DSi XL, both of which use the same charging cable. Those people don't necessarily need another one.


And for the people that don't own a handheld? They're going to be pissed if the store clerk forgets to tell them that the AC adapter is sold separately.


Hopefully Nintendo will put a notice on the packaging: "AC ADAPTER NOT INCLUDED!"
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 24, 2012, 07:49:25 PM
So an AC adapter doesn't count as a necessary item? How the hell can the device be powered or charged without it?
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: tendoboy1984 on July 24, 2012, 07:52:19 PM
So an AC adapter doesn't count as a necessary item? How the hell can the device be powered or charged without it?


Exactly. I'm glad NOA was smart about this, since the North American model will have an AC adapter included.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Kairon on July 24, 2012, 07:56:36 PM
Maybe Nintendo Japan has sales data that convinces them that people who buy the 3DS XL are highly likely to already own a compatible AC Adapter. I think it's a highly unusual decision to make, however, and am glad that NoA isn't following suit.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 24, 2012, 07:58:47 PM
So an AC adapter doesn't count as a necessary item? How the hell can the device be powered or charged without it?

An AC adapter is necessary to have only if you don't already have one. As I said, the 3DS XL uses the same adapter as the 3DS, DSi and DSi XL, so if you own one of those you already have one that works with this model. It's a cost cutting measure; Nintendo's banking on the audience for the hardware being primarily people who already have one of those, and being up front about that so people who don't fall into that category know they have to buy one separately.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: lolmonade on July 24, 2012, 08:09:42 PM
Maybe Nintendo Japan has sales data that convinces them that people who buy the 3DS XL are highly likely to already own a compatible AC Adapter. I think it's a highly unusual decision to make, however, and am glad that NoA isn't following suit.

As a selfish, lazy American, I thank you for saving me the trouble of researching this myself.  And now that I know that my land is safe, I can leave this topic and let everyone else bicker about how stupid this decision is for Nintendo.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: MegaByte on July 24, 2012, 08:16:13 PM
Maybe Nintendo Japan has sales data that convinces them that people who buy the 3DS XL are highly likely to already own a compatible AC Adapter. I think it's a highly unusual decision to make, however, and am glad that NoA isn't following suit.
This is what they said right when they announced the system. They expect most 3DS XL purchasers to already own a 3DS (or DSi or DSi XL). It does seem odd that they're already going for second purchasers this early in the system's life though.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Kairon on July 24, 2012, 08:20:18 PM
It does seem odd that they're already going for second purchasers this early in the system's life though.

Yeah, that's why I think this whole thing comes back to the profit motive.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: MegaByte on July 24, 2012, 08:22:19 PM
They reduced the retail price for the charger though. They must really be playing a margins game.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Adrock on July 25, 2012, 03:31:15 AM
I've yet to use the actual 3DS charger that came with it. I've been using my DSi charger which will be the one I trade in when I eventually upgrade to an XL due to all the cat bite marks. I'm glad the NA XL comes with a charger (why not in case of potential cat related accidents), but not including one isn't as crazy as it sounds. From personal experience, I didn't take out the 3DS charger because I didn't want or need another cord out.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on July 25, 2012, 09:32:29 AM
I don't curse often, but this whole debacle was f***ed from the start. I actually did consider trading in my existing 3DS for an XL,  but ultimately decided against it. The thought of paying an additional £6.99 ($10) for something which is Necessary was the determining, if not the sole, factor in my decision not to upgrade. I was teetering on whether or not to go ahead with the exchange, but the fact that an AC adaptor had to be purchased at additional cost made the decision not to upgrade far easier.
 
To not include the adaptor and to ask customers to spend more money on this very crucial component of the system is frankly churlish. New adopters might never have had a DS and those gamers who did own a DS or 3DS have likely already traded these systems in order fund the purchase of the more recent one. It's a pretty crappy move on Nintendo's part if you ask me.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Adrock on July 25, 2012, 11:39:58 AM
Would you have felt better if Nintendo included the AC adapter in the box and just charged you $10 more? They could have done that and you would have been none the wiser. It's a bizarre choice, no doubt. However, I don't think it's that terrible. This isn't even new. Remember when we had to buy memory cards just to save our games? A PS2 memory card was like $35 so suddenly a launch PS2 is $335 unless you wanted to just not make progress in your games. Sony is still doing that with Vita. I'm not just trying to hate on Sony. My point is whether a manufacturer packs a certain something in or charges separately for it, you, the customer, are still paying for it.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Tamazoid on July 25, 2012, 12:10:22 PM
I'm still wondering how Nintendo Australia got away with including the AC adapter down here. They are basically controlled by the Dark Lords of Japan these days. It's also very surprising that NoE went along with Japan. With how things are these day it would have been more likely if NoE included an AC adapter but NoA didn't


Strange times indeed.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: oohhboy on July 25, 2012, 12:19:35 PM
This is all about really, really bad messaging on Nintendo's part. If they just up and said the XL's price is what it would be minus the AC adapter rather than dancing around it like they have here, there wouldn't be a problem. They had half of the solution when they reduced the price of the adapter.

It also doesn't help that it feels like this isn't Iwata's idea, it's something some accountant would come up with in the back room. It doesn't come off like he owns the idea at all. It's completely unnatural.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: UncleBob on July 25, 2012, 12:44:41 PM
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-charging-cable-for-ndsi-dsi-17984

$1.68.

Nintendo should have included something like this in the package.  Shouldn't have raised the price hardly any.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Ian Sane on July 25, 2012, 01:09:02 PM
So the target market for the 3DS XL is double dips?  If you own a DSi, you're a damn sucker who got swindled.  If you already own a 3DS and are buying this one, you're a consumer whore.  The AC adapter is only "unnecessary" for customers that Nintendo is already playing like a fiddle.  If you're a smart shopper who has not bought a 3DS yet you get fucked because some other tool is gladly willing to buy redundant hardware they don't need because Nintendo tweaks it a little.  This is just Nintendo taking advantage of their customers.

The SNES, N64 and Gamecube all use the same A/V cables but Nintendo didn't assume that I already had a set when I bought a Cube.  Yeah, I didn't need the extra cables but I never thought "this is such bullshit I have to pay for this".  It's an essential item because it is needed for the damn thing to even work.  I should be able to just buy a videogame system and have it come with everything necessary to use it, except for the games.  It has to come with a power supply, cables to hook the system up to the TV, a controller.  Console not including memory cards was pretty annoying but at least without one you can still use the system.

At least NOA isn't doing this so if I buy a 3DS I don't have to worry about this nonsense.  Just a penny-pinching joke from a company I long ago lost any respect for.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Adrock on July 25, 2012, 01:30:50 PM
If you own a DSi, you're a damn sucker who got swindled.
I don't see how you can make a blanket statement like that and even attempt to pass that off as correct. For example, I gave my unemployed 16 year old brother my DS Lite and bought a DSi at launch so we could play Contra 4 and Phantasy Star 0. How did I get swindled if I got exactly what I wanted? Your argument is invalid.
Quote
If you already own a 3DS and are buying this one, you're a consumer whore.
Or I got a bunch of free games and a hefty discount yet prefer the larger screens and the larger hardware footprint of the XL. I'm selling my 3DS to my brother so we can play multiplayer games such as Resident Evil: Revelaitons, Mario Kart 7, and the upcoming Code of Princess. Some people already have the AC adapter for a variety of reasons.  Again, your argument is invalid. Good day to you, sir.
Quote
Just a penny-pinching joke from a company I long ago lost any respect for.
Then why are you here? I'm not asking you to leave. I just don't understand. You don't have to keep coming to a message board to continue complaining about a company you no longer respect. What is this? I don't even...
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 25, 2012, 03:55:46 PM
They are basically controlled by the Dark Lords of Japan these days. It's also very surprising that NoE went along with Japan. With how things are these day it would have been more likely if NoE included an AC adapter but NoA didn't
Strange times indeed.

NOE basically just does what NOJ tells them to, NOA is more independent.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Ceric on July 25, 2012, 04:15:16 PM
This is like Printers that don't come with USB cables.  If you can't use the product without something, printers case USB Cable.  It is not optional.  The excuse that you may already have one is not kosher.  I have spoons and forks at home so should they not be provided at resteraunts?
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Ian Sane on July 25, 2012, 04:38:08 PM
Adrock, if you sell your 3DS to your brother and buy a 3DS XL, how would you already have an AC adapter?  Doesn't HE need one as well?  So you're going to share the one AC adapter or what?  Or does he now have to buy one?  The only way to truly already have one is if the individual owns both systems, which means he got swindled by the DSi or already bought a 3DS.

The DSi is a scam because everyone with the slightest knowledge about videogames knew that it wasn't going to be the real DS successor and that successor was going to show up soon.  The plan was either for people ignorant of that to buy a DSi and find themselve with out-of-date hardware very quickly or for people who are well aware that the DSi was a stop gap but just don't have enough control over their spending habbits to not give in and buy it.  The whole thing was Nintendo manipulating their customers.

The 3DS has been out for a little over a year and you're going to replace it?  It isn't like there are exclusive 3DS XL games.  What do you really gain from buying another model?  To me, the purchase seems completely unnecessary.  Double dips like that are a scam and Nintendo is taking advantage of customers with misplaced priorities.

Maybe it's just the way I was raised.  I don't replace things that still work correctly unless the new product provides some significant new functionality that justifies the purchase by itself.  Does the 3DS XL honestly provide such new functionality that upgrading to one would be anything but out-of-control consumerism?

At least with your example with your brother, it's really like your brother getting a new system and, hey, why not buy the latest model?  It's two systems for two people and that works (but doesn't work with the one AC adapter; what do you do if the two of you are seperated from any length of time and both want your handheld?)  The DSi isn't an outright rip-off if that's the only DS you've ever owned.  But upgrading to it made no sense and that was Nintendo's plan.  DS sales were maxing out and they wanted to trick DS owners into upgrading to a largely meaningless upgrade and then to upgrade from THAT to the real upgrade shortly afterwards.  The whole thing is a screwjob and hardly anyone who didn't fall for this scam will not need an AC adapter (basically it only applies to late DS adopters who bought a DSi and now want to get the 3DS XL).
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: UncleBob on July 25, 2012, 04:41:48 PM
So you'd prefer to be charged for something you may or may not need?

A television is required to operate a Wii.  Should Nintendo pack a TV in with each unit?
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 25, 2012, 04:56:21 PM
Ian, how can you possibly say the DSi was a scam? It is no more of a scam than any other new version of a system. Was Game Boy Pocket a scam? The PSOne, PS2 Slim, or PS3 Slim scams? NES 2? SNES 2? DS Lite? At least DSi added new features like a camera (albeit a shitty one) and DSiWare.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Ceric on July 25, 2012, 05:00:49 PM
So you'd prefer to be charged for something you may or may not need?

A television is required to operate a Wii.  Should Nintendo pack a TV in with each unit?
Should you car come with a battery?
In your world no.

Stop being stupid UncleBob.  That is a flawed example and you know it.

Your Printer shouldn't come with Ink. You bought it to be a Coffee Table Accessory Right?
Your M&M Package doesn't need M&M in it.  You Paid for the Package of M&M. You don't need the M&M to Enjoy it.
Your Game Case shouldn't come with a Game.  I know you wanted to just have an alternate cover for the Games you already own.

All flawed examples.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: UncleBob on July 25, 2012, 05:21:27 PM
In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: tendoboy1984 on July 25, 2012, 05:22:32 PM
In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.


He mentioned ink, not a cable.


But that's completely different than a handheld device being sold without a necessary power cord for charging.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: UncleBob on July 25, 2012, 05:28:12 PM
In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.


He mentioned ink, not a cable.


But that's completely different than a handheld device being sold without a necessary power cord for charging.

Please read the thread before commenting. (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=38614.msg747190#msg747190)
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Ceric on July 25, 2012, 05:32:09 PM
In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.
*shrug* Consider a USB cable that can run a Printer is at most a dollar.  I rather just spend the extra Dollar.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Adrock on July 25, 2012, 05:32:41 PM
Adrock, if you sell your 3DS to your brother and buy a 3DS XL, how would you already have an AC adapter?  Doesn't HE need one as well?
As previously stated many times on these boards including this topic. I still have my DSi and its charger. I already have the charger. If the NA XL didn't come with a charger, I'd still be all set.

For households with multiple 3DS systems, they could conceivably make do with 1 charger. People share chargers for a variety of devices from phones to laptops all the time. Sometimes chargers get lost or aren't pet proofed and a single charger is all that's available. It's less convenient, but it does happen. NOA made a judgement call to include the charger, probably so they don't have to explain that it's sold separately. I don't think it's a coincidence that DSi XL launched for $190 and 3DS XL is launching at $200 while DSi and 3DS were both $170 (after the 3DS price drop). One way or another, consumers will be paying for that charger whether or not it's included or sold separately.

Nintendo isn't asking or requiring anyone to double dip. That's up to the consumer. Even if my brother wasn't buying my 3DS, I would have still traded up to the 3DS XL because the larger screens matter to me as someone who treats handhelds as home consoles. With each new model, I weigh my options. There's no scam. Nintendo isn't tricking anyone. I bought a DSi, but I didn't upgrade to a DSi XL.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: UncleBob on July 25, 2012, 05:38:34 PM
In the case of the printer, the USB cable is a pretty standardized piece of equipment that most anyone who owns a computer likely already has.  To include it with the printer only serves the purpose of raising the price of the printer (for most folks).  Heck, many printers now-a-days don't even need the USB cable at all.

Many, many products on the market *require* the use and purchase of another product to get the most out of the primary product.  It's nothing new.

In this case, I agree that the power cord should be included with the XL (or, at least, a cheap USB charger). However, I disagree with printers needing to ship with USB cables.
*shrug* Consider a USB cable that can run a Printer is at most a dollar.  I rather just spend the extra Dollar.

If only it worked out that way. I recall selling printers that were similar in specs (different brands though, so that could make a difference).  Some advertised that they came with the USB Cable... but were more than the similar-spec'd printers that didn't come with the cable AND a cable purchased by itself.

Personally, I'm still ticked the 3DS came with a 2GB SD card.  It's currently sitting in a 3DS case (with my AR Cards) and will likely never be used again.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: broodwars on July 25, 2012, 06:33:39 PM
The problem I have with the printer analogy is that a USB cable is a universal cord. Many electronic devices use them for purposes ranging from electrical charging to data transfer, so the possibility of the user already having one (even if they don't already own a printer) is fairly high.  And even if you don't already have one, USB cables are pretty cheap and easy to acquire.  By contrast, the 3DS cable is a proprietary cable: the only cords that can swap in for it are those that came with other Nintendo handhelds, which users probably get rid of when they sell-off their handhelds to acquire the latest model.  Most users aren't likely going to have an extra Nintendo charging cable just lying around.

If the 3DS used a standardized cord for charging, I could understand them not including one with the unit to cut down on costs.  But this device requires a cord only Nintendo can provide, so I think it's ultimately Nintendo's responsibility to include the cable with the 3DS XL.  At least the Nintendo branches outside Japan seem to understand this.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 25, 2012, 06:49:08 PM
Even for those who already own a 3DS or DSi and thus already have the AC adapter, they still need a 2nd AC adapter because odds are if they are buying an XL they will want to trade in the old 3DS at Gamestop or give it to a friend or something, and Gamestop will demand that you surrender the AC adapter along with it for the trade in.. and the same goes if you give the old one to a friend or whatever. They are going to want that AC Adapter.

If people are planning on throwing their old 3DS in the trash with the purchase of the XL, then sure they could just use the old AC adapter and its no problem, but if they're going to trade it in, sell it, or give it away then the AC Adapter needs to go with it. So either they do without an adapter, or the new owners of the old 3DS do without it. Ideally NEITHER should go without it, because every system should come with its own adapter.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Ian Sane on July 25, 2012, 07:18:32 PM
I want to know which of you bought a 3DS and thought "****!  I can't believe they made me buy another AC adapter when I already have one!"  No one on the face of the planet thought of this until the almighty infallible Nintendo used this is an excuse for penny pinching.

I never even thought of this as some unfair mandatory extra cost.  My Gamecube's AV cables never got used because I just used my existing N64 ones and swapped the connection to whichever system I was playing at the time (no need to eat up two inputs on the TV).  At the time I just thought to myself "well I guess I don't actually need these cables then" and kind of laughed it off.  I wasn't outraged that I was forced to buy them.  I can't imagine the cost is high enough that it would initiate any change in the MSRP.  Of COURSE the Cube was going to come with those cables.  What if I didn't own an N64?  It needs to just work out of the box, right?

And as Chozo pointed out these aren't standardized cords that you can buy from anyone.  Nintendo is the one selling it.  Seems like somewhat of a conflict of interest to not include something most buyers are going to need when you're the only retailer they can buy the adapter from.  I'm sure that's just a coincedence and not some plan to get an extra purchase, presumably with it's own mark-up and profit margin.

I consider the DSi a scam over something like the DS Lite because it offers some new functionality in DSiWare so that existing DS users are missing out on actual content but the upgrade is not so significant to truly be worth buying a new system when the real successor was almost certainly due to be released soon afterwards.  I think it was a borderline worthless upgrade just to get DS owners to buy an unnecessary purchase prior to the 3DS coming out.  To me it was like if the N64 expansion pack was actually the N64+ and you had to buy a whole new system to play the like three games that needed it.  It's the old Greatest Hits album with one new song to get die-hards to pay full price for a sliver of new content.  At least the DS Lite or the PS2 Slim don't have new exclusive content.  It's just a physical redesign.  No one would ever feel any pressure to buy such a minor upgrade to get access to any content they would otherwise have unavailable to them.  The DSi has just enough new content to entice an existing DS owner to upgrade but not enough to actually make that worthwhile.  I think Nintendo did that intentionally and that's why it's a scam.  They wanted you to buy a new DS for essentially no reason.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Kairon on July 25, 2012, 08:18:37 PM
They wanted you to buy a new DS for essentially no reason.

This is what I was thinking while I lovingly cradled my DS Phat in my hands while so many others rushed to buy a DS Lite.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 25, 2012, 08:44:03 PM
Ian, new features and new content ARE reasons to buy it. If anything, people buying a DS Lite were being scammed because it was inferior. You could also play all of your DS games on the DSi. Also, the PS2 Slim was a scam because it actually had fewer games (due to not being able to use the modem) and some accessories not working. The DSi XL, it could be argued, was worthless. The DSi though WAS worthwhile. I for one skipped the DS Lite and went right from the DS to the DSi and was glad I had waited.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 25, 2012, 08:44:41 PM
They wanted you to buy a new DS for essentially no reason.

This is what I was thinking while I lovingly cradled my DS Phat in my hands while so many others rushed to buy a DS Lite.

I was one of the original DS Phat owners and just like you I passed on the Lite, because the Phat was good enough for me.... but then the DSi came out, and I sold my Phat and bought it immediately. I wouldn't say that's the worst mistake I've ever made, but it definitely was a mistake and I regret it every time I think about it.

It wouldn't have been so bad if the 3DS hadn't come out just a year or two later. This is one of the reasons why I haven't bought a 3DS thus far. I felt duped and cheated with the DSi just like how Sega fans who bought the 32X and Sega CD must have felt years ago. The DSi wasn't quite as bad as the 32x, but it is a similar situation. Sega lost a lot of loyal fans from the 32X betrayal. Nintendo hasn't lost me yet, but between that and the Wii I'm kinda on the fence right now. Of course, petty things like forcing people to buy AC adapters separately aren't helping either, of course it is a minor thing, but minor things do add up.

So because of the DSi I decided to pass on the 3DS, and that turned out pretty well because I avoided the scam of being overcharged $80 to be an early adopter, and unsurprisingly we now have a new and better 3DS revision. See how waiting can pay off? But I don't think the XL is good enough. I have a feeling there will be at least one more revision before all is said and done, and my fingers are crossed that this one will have dual circle pads. If it does then I will buy it immediately, and I will know that I did the right thing by waiting.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 25, 2012, 08:45:50 PM
You could also play all of your DS games on the DSi.

Even Guitar Hero?
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Ceric on July 25, 2012, 09:58:34 PM
...
Personally, I'm still ticked the 3DS came with a 2GB SD card.  It's currently sitting in a 3DS case (with my AR Cards) and will likely never be used again.
Yeah, considering the 3DS has built in memory as well that is something I would have considered optional.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Adrock on July 26, 2012, 12:30:05 AM
I still don't really understand the controversy of the AC adapter. Once again, consumers will be paying for the AC adapter one way or another. Nintendo even lowered the price of the AC adapter in Japan and they didn't have to do that so I can't see this being Nintendo pushing profit margins. They're not forcing consumers to buy something they might not need or want, even though the hardware requires it. This move is for people who might already have one. If the AC adapter was included in the box, Nintendo would just mark up the box slightly to compensate for it being there. It probably comes down to the same price, just in 2 separate boxes. I admit, it's a strange strategy especially since I personally don't really want or need the SD card and if I did, I probably wouldn't waste my time on 2GB-4GB, but that's all it is.
I felt duped and cheated with the DSi just like how Sega fans who bought the 32X and Sega CD must have felt years ago.
No disrespect but I don't see how you can rightly say this. First, it was your decision and yours alone. No one put a gun to your head. Second, you're an avid reader of videogame news sites and a long time member of a Nintendo message board. How did you get duped and/or cheated? You should have known exactly what it was and it's your fault if you didn't. Nintendo never once said or claimed that DSi was the successor to the the DS Lite or original model. I can understand buyer's remorse, but that's not Nintendo's fault. You weighed the pros and cons. The choice was ultimately yours. Being duped or cheated would be if you bought a DSi and opened the box and it was anything but a DSi inside. You bought a DSi and you got a DSi.
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I avoided the scam of being overcharged $80 to be an early adopter, and unsurprisingly we now have a new and better 3DS revision.
If a marked up product is a scam, then EVERY product is a scam and you should just avoid buying things forever. Nintendo set a price. They didn't plan a price drop. They misjudged the market and paid dearly for it (as they should, that's how business works). Nintendo is still paying for that mistake. On top of that, they offered free games to early adopters and they didn't have to. Those people already paid the price of entry. The Ambassador titles were simply an act of good will. I bought a Gamecube at launch, but I didn't get anything after Nintendo dropped the price 6-7 months later, nor did I expect to. I paid what I felt was a fair price. A scam requires an intent to deceive. "Here's the product and this is what it costs." What part of that is a deception? Marking the price up? That's not deceptive. They priced 3DS based on what they thought most people were willing to pay and they were wrong. Uh-oh, Spaghetti-O. They fucked up. It happens. That's not a scam. That's just fucking up. Every company has done that.

Also, better is a matter of perspective. A friend of mine really couldn't care less about the 3DS XL. He thinks it's too big and is worried about the larger screens will make the graphics fuzzy.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: tendoboy1984 on July 26, 2012, 12:33:01 AM
I still don't really understand the controversy of the AC adapter. Once again, consumers will be paying for the AC adapter one way or another. Nintendo even lowered the price of the AC adapter in Japan and they didn't have to do that so I can't see this being Nintendo pushing profit margins. They're not forcing consumers to buy something they might not need or want, even though the hardware requires it. This move is for people who might already have one. If the AC adapter was included in the box, Nintendo would just mark up the box slightly to compensate for it being there. It probably comes down to the same price, just in 2 separate boxes. I admit, it's a strange strategy especially since I personally don't really want or need the SD card and if I did, I probably wouldn't waste my time on 2GB-4GB, but that's all it is.
I felt duped and cheated with the DSi just like how Sega fans who bought the 32X and Sega CD must have felt years ago.
No disrespect but I don't see how you can rightly say this. First, it was your decision and yours alone. No one put a gun to your head. Second, you're an avid reader of videogame news sites and a long time member of a Nintendo message board. How did you get duped and/or cheated? You should have known exactly what it was and it's your fault if you didn't. Nintendo never once said or claimed that DSi was the successor to the the DS Lite or original model. I can understand buyer's remorse, but that's not Nintendo's fault. You weighed the pros and cons. The choice was ultimately yours. Being duped or cheated would be if you bought a DSi and opened the box and it was anything but a DSi inside. You bought a DSi and you got a DSi.
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I avoided the scam of being overcharged $80 to be an early adopter, and unsurprisingly we now have a new and better 3DS revision.
If a marked up product is a scam, then EVERY product is a scam and you should just avoid buying things forever. Nintendo set a price. They didn't plan a price drop. They misjudged the market and paid dearly for it (as they should, that's how business works). Nintendo is still paying for that mistake. On top of that, they offered free games to early adopters and they didn't have to. Those people already paid the price of entry. The Ambassador titles were simply an act of good will. I bought a Gamecube at launch, but I didn't get anything after Nintendo dropped the price 6-7 months later, nor did I expect to. I paid what I felt was a fair price. A scam requires an intent to deceive. "Here's the product and this is what it costs." What part of that is a deception? Marking the price up? That's not deceptive. They priced 3DS based on what they thought most people were willing to pay and they were wrong. Uh-oh, Spaghetti-O. They fucked up. It happens. That's not a scam. That's just fucking up. Every company has done that.

Also, better is a matter of perspective. A friend of mine really couldn't care less about the 3DS XL. He thinks it's too big and is worried about the larger screens will make the graphics fuzzy.


Thank you for using logic and reasoning. Too many people don't utilize those traits.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 26, 2012, 01:00:35 AM
No disrespect but I don't see how you can rightly say this. First, it was your decision and yours alone. No one put a gun to your head. Second, you're an avid reader of videogame news sites and a long time member of a Nintendo message board. How did you get duped and/or cheated? You should have known exactly what it was and it's your fault if you didn't. Nintendo never once said or claimed that DSi was the successor to the the DS Lite or original model. I can understand buyer's remorse, but that's not Nintendo's fault. You weighed the pros and cons. The choice was ultimately yours. Being duped or cheated would be if you bought a DSi and opened the box and it was anything but a DSi inside. You bought a DSi and you got a DSi.

I never once said I was forced to buy it. I said I felt "cheated and duped" that's what I said and that's exactly what i meant. I don't know where you're getting the idea I felt like I had a gun pointed to my head. The problem wasn't force. I want to say the problem was fraud, but that's not quite accurate. Nintendo didn't lie and say the DSi was going to have a long and healthy life and that there wouldn't be a successor 3DS right around the corner. Nintendo didn't say that, so they didn't exactly lie to me... but I made an assumption.

If you want to say its my fault that I assumed something that wasn't true, that's fine, but Nintendo obviously didn't do much to dissuade people from making that assumption. So its not so much that they lied, but that they didn't quite tell the whole truth about what the DSi was. Now we know that the DSi was a dead end system, but at the time how could anyone have known that?

No one put a gun to Sega fans who bought a 32X back in the day and were lead to believe this was the future of gaming. Are you saying they didn't have a right to be upset when just a few months later Sega announced the Saturn and pulled the plug on the 32X after only about a dozen games were produced? The DSi is like that. No force was used, but one argue fraud was involved. There was no lying, but Sega didn't make any effort to stop consumers from believing that the 32x was going to be this huge thing with a long life ahead of it, even though Sega knew damn well that this was just a stop gap measure, and that the real deal was the Saturn. That was deceitful and dishonest, and this had a lot to do with Sega's downfall.

Come to think of it, maybe the DSi has an awful lot to do with how badly the 3DS struggled early on. Many people had just gotten burned on the DSi so why would they want to open up their wallets again so soon on the 3DS?  Sales eventually did pick up after the price drop and release of new games, but the DSi probably accounts for at least some of that crappy initial start. I know I was in no rush to buy a new handheld because I felt (and still feel to some extent) that I didn't quite get my money's worth out of the DSi.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 26, 2012, 06:40:42 AM
The DSi was a great idea, and it had NOTHING to do with 3DS struggling early on. That was due to the price of the system, relatively lack of good games, and not strong marketing.

And "right around the corner"? The DSi was released almost 2 1/2 years before the 3DS came out. That is a pretty damn long time.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Adrock on July 26, 2012, 08:16:50 AM
I never once said I was forced to buy it. I said I felt "cheated and duped" that's what I said and that's exactly what i meant. I don't know where you're getting the idea I felt like I had a gun pointed to my head.
Lulz. I didn't say you were forced either. I never even used that word in the part you quoted either. The "no one put a gun to your head" comment was made to illustrate that because the choice to buy the DSi was yours and yours alone, you don't get to pass the buck on Nintendo for that. Go ahead and be upset if you want. I just think it's misdirected if your aiming it at Nintendo.
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If you want to say its my fault that I assumed something that wasn't true, that's fine, but Nintendo obviously didn't do much to dissuade people from making that assumption. So its not so much that they lied, but that they didn't quite tell the whole truth about what the DSi was. Now we know that the DSi was a dead end system, but at the time how could anyone have known that?
It was entirely your fault. Why is it Nintendo's responsibility to explain to you the nature of consumer electronics? You made the assumption and you bought the product. I'm not saying you suck because of it. I've never met anyone who didn't regret a transaction at least once in their life. I have many times, a few times I even caught myself and returned a product. Lost Planet 2 comes to mind. However, I can't, for example, blame GameStop because I stupidly traded in Valkyrie Profile for PS1. Or blame Nintendo when I bought a Gameboy Pocket the February before the Gameboy Color was announced. I can't blame them because I made those choices.

I don't know why you expect Nintendo to tell you not to buy their current product and to wait for an upcoming product. First, no company will ever do that. Second, new products are always on the horizon. If people always waited for the next thing, no one would ever buy anything and the entire economy would collapse upon itself. Nintendo was pretty open about what the DSi was. There was a whole Iwata Asks about it.

The 32X example isn't the same thing. Like TJ said, DSi came out nearly 2.5 years before 3DS. That's a far cry from 32X and Saturn. And I'm sure Sega would have preferred the 32X to perform better and if it had, maybe the Saturn wouldn't have been an architectural mess. Unfortunately, 32X didn't and the Saturn was rushed for a variety of reasons. Again, releasing Saturn wasn't deception. That was Sega fucking up due to poor management. I wouldn't put DSi in the same pot though.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: DonnyKD on July 26, 2012, 11:05:08 AM
Isn't the 3DS and 3DS XL compatible with any AC Adapter?

Who doesn't have a freaking AC Adapter?

I also love how many super-entitled people there are here.

"Nintendo's losing touch with reality!"

"I feel cheated and duped!"

As if you're actually going to get the 3DS XL. And why are you guys complaining that you have to buy it separately? I'm pretty sure the bundle would cost extra if it DID COME WITH THE SYSTEM.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on July 26, 2012, 11:59:46 AM
Isn't the 3DS and 3DS XL compatible with any AC Adapter?

Who doesn't have a freaking AC Adapter?

I also love how many super-entitled people there are here.

"Nintendo's losing touch with reality!"

"I feel cheated and duped!"

As if you're actually going to get the 3DS XL. And why are you guys complaining that you have to buy it separately? I'm pretty sure the bundle would cost extra if it DID COME WITH THE SYSTEM.

I have an AC adapter, but were I to trade in my 3DS to fund the purchase of the XL I would be without one.
By and large I would agree with you that people on the internet have an over inflated sense of entitlement. On this occasion, however, I'd have to disagree with you. There are warranted and unwarranted senses of entitlement. There are certain expectations that are valid for consumers to hold, and in my opinion including a power supply for an electronic device is one of them.
 
I understand the argument that some people have put forth, that in fact Nintendo are giving their consumers the option. That had they included an AC adapter with each XL they would be driving up the overall cost, and that by not including it they are able to provide a better price point to those consumers who don't require the AC adapter. I understand this argument, but that doesn't change my opinion that this was a bad decision.
 
From what I understand Nintendo have being doing things like this in Japan for years, but I'm worried that this will set a similar precedent in Europe and perhaps eventually other regions. The fact that some people might already own an AC adapter is not in my opinion sufficient justification to not include one with the boxed product. Without wanting to sound naive, the decision to put cost saving above wider consumer convenience is I believe a mis-step. I understand that Nintendo are eager to return to profitability but removing components from the original package and selling them separately is not only the wrong way to go about it, it also comes off as a little desperate.
 
There's also something to be said for having a robust and clear package to sell to consumers. Nintendo now have two 3DS SKUs, two variants of the Circle Pad Pro, and now they will have one bundle which includes an AC Adapter and one for which the adapter will have to be purchased separately. Not to mention the fact that the adapter is included in some regions but not others. It's a crazy decision in my opinion, but then again Nintendo have made quite a few crazy decisions over the course of the last two years.

Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 26, 2012, 07:12:43 PM
Isn't the 3DS and 3DS XL compatible with any AC Adapter?

Far from it. Even if you have a so called "universal" AC adapter like I do, it isn't compatible with Nintendo's proprietary port.

The XL isn't even compatible with any DS adapter either. It will work with the DSi one apparently, but you are SOL if you happen to have a Phat or a Lite (which is the one most DS owners are likely to have).
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: tendoboy1984 on July 26, 2012, 09:30:18 PM
It's a crazy decision in my opinion, but then again Nintendo have made quite a few crazy decisions over the course of the last two years.


Nintendo has been making crazy decisions since they started making video games.


Remember the whole "N64 won't play CD's" fiasco that caused many developers to jump ship to the PlayStation?


Remember the whole "GameCube supports online gaming, but we [Nintendo] won't support it because we don't think it's important". Fast-forward to now, and Iwata finally realizes the importance of online connectivity in gaming.


Remember the whole 64DD add-on that was bulky, expensive, and pretty much worthless outside of a few user-creation games?


I could go on and on. Nintendo has made just as many mistakes as Sony and Sega, yet no one bitches at Sony for their flops (PSP Go, PS2 hard drive, PS2 network adapter, etc.).
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: AnGer on July 27, 2012, 10:08:48 AM
It's probably because Nintendo fans are more loyal than Sony fans, but at the same time, they're more strict. At least that's what I can tell from my experience.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: Hey Einstein! on July 27, 2012, 11:50:49 AM
Some of the fuming here reminded me of this great commentary on a similar debate:
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/08/25 (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/08/25)


(Apologies if it's already been shared in this thread)
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: tendoboy1984 on July 28, 2012, 09:58:15 AM
Personally, I'm still ticked the 3DS came with a 2GB SD card.  It's currently sitting in a 3DS case (with my AR Cards) and will likely never be used again.

Just be thankful that Nintendo actually included an SD card, unlike Sony and the Vita.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: lolmonade on July 28, 2012, 10:58:02 AM
Personally, I'm still ticked the 3DS came with a 2GB SD card.  It's currently sitting in a 3DS case (with my AR Cards) and will likely never be used again.

Just be thankful that Nintendo actually included an SD card, unlike Sony and the Vita.

Ok....now we're comparing a 2 GB SD card which costs nearly nothing and isn't necessary to an A/C adapter which is necessary for the system to actually function.
Title: Re: Nintendo's reasoning for not including an AC Adapter with the 3DS XL...
Post by: nickmitch on July 29, 2012, 04:43:52 PM
Apple could sell me an iPhone/iPod/iPad without a charger, and I'd be fine because I already have like 30. Kind of an extreme of what Nintendo's doing here, but I think they're right at that border.