Topic: Run the Series 1: 2D (Side-scrolling) Mario Platformers.

[Louieturkey]

This is why I didn't play NSMB 2 until last Summer and even after finally playing it, the game confirmed my fears, it really was a rushed lower quality product.  The level design of NSMB 2 is a huge step down from both NSMB Wii and U.  Yeah there's a focus on coin collecting but even that is pretty pointless to me since the only reward you get for those 1 million coins is a worthless gold statue of Mario on the title screen.  Now it's still a decent game because the Mario formula is still a solid base, but to me, NSMB 2 doesn't do much to go beyond that and it's big feature the coin rush is not implemented very well in a way that makes me want to keep playing.

I'd just like to point out that getting all 120 stars in Super Mario 64 only netted you access to the cannon in front of the castle letting you get to the top of the castle where Yoshi is there to congratulate you on doing it.  Also not really worth the reward. 
A better argument would be it was not fun trying to get the million coin challenge and therefore was not worth it.  Whereas getting 120 stars in Mario 64 was fun in a lot of ways (and challenging and frustrating, especially that first time) making the completion of getting all the stars being its own reward.

[Louieturkey]

I've beating SMB 1, 2 and 3, World and NSMB.  I played a little of the Wii version but haven't played any of the others.  I will likely play NSMBU at some point but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[Khushrenada]

A better argument would be it was not fun trying to get the million coin challenge and therefore was not worth it.

Exactly. Since it seemed to be taking a lot of time to build up my coin bank, I checked out what happens when you get the million coins and once I found out it was just the dumb gold Mario statue, I quit playing it. If I was finding the coin rush challenges more fun, I'd have probably kept playing but I did not and the reward did not seem close to the effort needed.

[Khushrenada]

On a different note, I was taking a look on Wikipedia to see how they might classify the Mario games in the series since people have mentioned Mario Maker, World 2. and Land 3 as potentially being included on the list. I found it interesting to see how they divide Mario games. For instance, they use a blanket Mario RPG series in which they place Super Mario RPG on it's own and then subdivide with the Mario and Luigi series and complete Paper Mario series despite it moving to a more action/adventure role.

For Mario platformers, they put those games under a "Super Mario" series and include both the 2D and 3D platformers under that series heading. On that Super Mario Series page, they list Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 in the timeline of Super Mario series releases. However, it is not included elsewhere on the page. It is not given a paragraph under the different Games section of the page. It is not included in the Releases section, the Reception section nor is it included in the bottom links for the different games in the series. If you go to the Wario series section, however, you will find it there and listed under the links of games for the Wario series. As such, I stand by the exclusion of that game as part of the series. The Wario Land entry even states that its "gameplay proves completely different from that of the Mario titles" which is a further reason why I don't think it should be included.

[Khushrenada]

More tricky, however, is Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. Like Wario Land, it's gameplay is a bit different from a normal Mario title with it's egg-aiming and stockpiling, the Yoshi flutter jumps and all-game long escort mission of Baby Mario. Yoshi(s) are the main character of this game although Baby Mario is present and can briefly play when touching an invincibility star. Moreover, this title is seen as the launching point of the Yoshi series. If you go to the Yoshi series' page, this game is the first one included under that series.

Yet, as noted on the Wikipedia entry of the game on the Super Mario series side, SMW2 "is considered by Miyamoto to be part of the Super Mario series" and that's a pretty big point in its favor to be included. Moreover, there are elements of the game that have carried over into the regular titles like collecting red coins in a level or the baby characters being included into other Mario franchise games. Personally, if the interest remains as I create other entries in this "Run the Series" idea, I had always thought that SMW2 would be in a Yoshi entry for the Yoshi platformer series much like I thought I would put Mario's Picross or Pokémon Picross under a Picross series entry. Yet, those titles seemed to be put under the Mario Puzzle Game series and Pokémon Puzzle Game series respectively. As it is, Wikipedia does include SMW2 with the Super Mario series as well despite being entered with the Yoshi series. I guess the game is enough of a crossover to be listed on both so this one could be up for more debate although I think it does a lot differently from the rest of the Super Mario series of which those ideas are only followed up on in the Yoshi series to warrant it as not being included with Mario Platformers. Mario should be the or at least a main controlling character not a secondary character with little game input.

I suppose if 5 people want to petition it's inclusion, I'll add it on and let it crossover into both series as well.

[Phil]

Could never do or find fun with Lost Levels. Barely could beat the original either.

As for Super Mario World 2, I tie that game more to the Yoshi series with its most recent release of the game of its type being Woolly World. Dare I say, i enjoyed it more than the SNES classic because of the lack of stress getting 100% in each level. (You didn't have to do everything in one run. This started in Yoshi's New Island, which was a nice thing, especially for those really tough bonus levels.)

[Louieturkey]

Yeah, I'm placing SMW2 in the Yoshi series category.  It played differently than SMW and never really appealed to me even now. 

[Ian Sane]

While I have played most of these aside from some of the newer ones, I realize now that I've only beaten one of them, NSMB Wii.  That's a pretty shitty track record for a series I have a lot of fondness for.  The thing is that I suck at platformers.  They're a lot of fun but I'm really bad at them and usually just hit a wall where the game becomes too hard and I give up on it.

I blame my parents for not letting me own a videogame system during the NES years as other kids got valuable videogame experience on the hardest game console ever made and I did not, putting me at a significant disadvantage.

[Mop it up]

Regardless of what games could count on a technicality, there are already 12 games in this poll. I feel like that's plenty for it, and the Yoshi and Wario polls for example won't have as many games in them, so it seems fine to me to exclude them from this poll and just have them in their own respective polls.

[Wah]

Mario 64 DS (best Mario game other then all-stars's 3) isn't there....

[Spak-Spang]

Well, it is a strange catch 22.  I think Starting with the official Yoshi games and Wario games they are excluded.  I do not believe the Wario series is part of the Mario series of platformers.  Nor do I count Yoshi's story and those sequels.

Now Super Mario World 2 is a strange beast.  Do we penalize a game as not being the main franchise because it does something radically different.  If so Super Mario Bros 2 USA should be out of this poll.  It is not a true 2D Mario platformer.  However it gets included because of legacy status. 

However, Super Mario World 2 even though it is a direct sequel tries something different and it works to the point it creates a new franchise of games and so it is excluded.  However, what if the Yoshi sequels never existed...then it would be just like Super Mario Bros 2...and most likely people would still consider it part of the main series of games.

As it stands...my personal ranking for the games are:

Super Mario World (Not as creative as Mario 3...but the level design is infinitely better)

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island  This game is like Super Mario 3...it is so ambitious and creates a brand new Mario experience.

Super Mario Bros 3:  If World did not exist this would be my number one favorite game.  However, level design, game control, balance of difficulty is just much better in World and so this drops to 3rd place.

Super Mario Bros.  This classic has several flaws, but it still works and surprisingly is still better than many modern platformers.

The middle of the list is difficult...but the bottom is pretty easy.

Super Mario Bros 2
Super Mario Land
Super Mario Bros The Lost Levels
New Super Mario Bros DS

All these games are on the bottom of my list.  Probably in that order as well.  Super Mario Bros 2 just never feels like a Mario game.  And where Yoshi's Island is a breath of fresh air Mario Bros 2 is just a frustration. 

Super Mario Land is weird it works...but also doesn't.  It is just a really weird Mario game that feels like a Mario Clone.

Super Mario Bros The Lost Levels feels like an added level pack...that designers said here play a harder less fun version of Super Mario Bros.  Just because we hate you.

Finally New Super Mario Bros just felt Lazy.  I played and beat the game and there were several levels that I just went through the motions.  I didn't know if I was having fun or not, and honestly didn't care.  The graphics even felt worse than the original because at least pixel art has style but blurry 3D models just are ugly.

[Spak-Spang]

Mario 64 DS (best Mario game other then all-stars's 3) isn't there....

Super Mario 64 DS...I would love this game to be released with normal controls.  The added characters and levels were fun.  Nintendo really should do a HD remake of this game.  Add a few new levels...and a Remix/hard Mode with a few more enemies in the levels to spicy up the level design...and perhaps a few more additions to the environment...to me Super Mario 64 is still the definitive 3D Mario game.

[Louieturkey]

Mario 64 DS (best Mario game other then all-stars's 3) isn't there....

And if it was a 2D platformer, you may have a case.

[Spak-Spang]

I always liked the original 3 better than All-Stars Mario 3. 

[Wah]

But 16-bit Mario 3 is amazing!

[Khushrenada]

While I have played most of these aside from some of the newer ones, I realize now that I've only beaten one of them, NSMB Wii.  That's a pretty shitty track record for a series I have a lot of fondness for.  The thing is that I suck at platformers.  They're a lot of fun but I'm really bad at them and usually just hit a wall where the game becomes too hard and I give up on it.

I blame my parents for not letting me own a videogame system during the NES years as other kids got valuable videogame experience on the hardest game console ever made and I did not, putting me at a significant disadvantage.

This has been the most interesting post so far in this thread because it is the most surprising to me. It blows my mind a bit that you would have such a low completion rate for the series.

Personally, I don't think missing the NES should be holding you back. My first videogame system was the SNES and Super Mario World is where I got my gaming experience. I had played a bit of the 3 Super Mario Bros. NES games at some friends houses prior to that point but I wasn't very good at them. I may have gotten to or through the first castle of 1-4 and maybe I warped to world 5 a few times in SMB, for instance, but it's hard to recall. It wasn't until Super Mario All-Stars that I really got to dig into those classic Mario games and play them through to completion and discover all their levels and secrets.

From that beginning, I've now joined the ranks of the few and the proud and have run the series to completion. After making this thread, I was inspired to go back and continue where I left off in New Luigi Bros. U and finished it off getting the 5 star save file for it. Fortunately, I found this game a greater pleasure to play than NSMBU and with it's shorter levels and time limit, I completed the last 7 worlds in about 3 days. It's been a few weeks since then because I wanted to give it some distance before doing a ranking of my own for the series. Here's where my thinking and opinion is at these days with these games.

[Khushrenada]

The Khushrenada Rankings #12-7


#12. Super Mario Land 2 - The years I spent growing up and fantasizing about this game and what secrets it might contain along with the first appearance of Wario as a Mario enemy created hype too great for this game. Finally having played it thanks to the 3DS Virtual Console, I really don't care for it. It just controls kind of funny and the levels came across as boring and simplistic. There's something about the size of the characters or portion of the levels shown that never feels right. With the original Mario Land, everything comes across and registers as properly proportioned to me but that's not the case with SML2. The final castle where you go to fight Wario was a good challenge though and the World Map is interesting looking but all in all I forget this game exists at times when thinking of Mario games.

#11. Super Mario Land - I prefer this over SML2 but it may help that I've had way more experience with it so I never had the expectations for it like SML2. I like some of the music in it and even though it visually seemed strange compared to other Mario titles, it felt a bit more like an NES Mario game so control wise it felt right even if it was aesthetically off. Still, many other Mario games I'd play ahead of it.

#10. SMB (The Lost Levels): I know I played this through over a decade ago on Super Mario All-Stars and just thought it was SMB with its levels mixed up not realizing it was a whole new game only released in Japan back in the day. It was just this mixed up Mario Bros game with some poison mushrooms. If I'm going to play this or the original, I'd rather go with the original but there are times I wonder about trying to complete this title again after so much time has passed since I last did it.

#9. Super Mario Bros. 2 - It's funny how much of this game has been adopted into the Mario canon with Shyguys and Birdos, POW blocks and keys, or the abilities of Mario, Luigi, Toad and Peach. Yet, it's still such an oddity. The masks that chase you when you get keys. The eagle mouths you enter. Being able to wrap around the screen from left to right or right to left. The magic potions that create doors to shadow/negative images of the levels. Very strange. It makes sense as a dream. But, ultimately, it just isn't that fun to me. I usually get tired of it after a few levels. I find it hard to keep up sustained interest in it.

#8. New Super Mario Bros 2 - I talked about this game on the forums before but what I remember saying about it is still true for me. It's very forgettable. There is nothing about any of the levels or design of the game that sticks out for me. Power-ups that just increase the number of coins you collect is not really that fun if you don't care about collecting 1 million coins for a new opening screen. The only thing I recall about this game is this interesting speed up effect as you would warp from a world to another or get to the cannon and riding a platform through clouds as coins would sprinkle around you to collect. That's it. I'd still put it ahead of the other games previously listed because technically it is superior then them and I didn't have a problem finishing the game. It just came after the more superior NSMB Wii and continues to have a negative impression in my mind from being lesser.

#7. New Super Mario Bros. - I played this game a lot when it first came out. Yeah, it might have been more simple than other Mario platformers but it was new and it was fresh. I liked the NSMB main theme before it became overused and how the enemies would dance to the music. I liked the Mega Mushroom and plowing through levels like Mario Godzilla while the Mini Mushroom added an extra challenge especially when having to fight some bosses with it in order to unlock a couple worlds. I went back to it a few years ago when there was a Mario discussion happening on this forum and the game was being dismissed by many for being bland and I thought they were wrong because I remembered a lot from the game. However, playing through a few levels, I realized they were right and it had lost some of its luster and it probably helped that I played so much of it a few times over compared to NSMB2 which was a one and done play experience. Still, when I think of this title, it has a positive memory in my mind no doubt benefitting from its time of release and when I played it but because of that, I'd put it higher than NSMB2 and even as a write this, I suddenly feel like pulling the game out and playing through it all since it has been such a long time since I last did so which, to me, seems like a plus in its favor.

[Khushrenada]

The Khushrenada Rankings #6-4

#6. New Super Mario Bros. U - I realized one day that I had 3 Mario games I hadn't even played in my collection which would have seemed unfathomable to my young self who would have wanted to play any new Mario game he could. The games were Galaxy 2, NSMBU and Mario 3D World. I went with Galaxy 2 expecting to dislike it the most since I've long been on record of not liking Galaxy 1. Turns out I was wrong about that and Galaxy 2 might be the best Mario game I've played since Sunshine. Anyways, I followed that up with NSMBU so maybe that has a factor of why I'm not as positive as other users on this game.

When I first opened and started playing this game, my cousin was visiting with me so we played through the first world and some other levels together. As I was playing it, I was locating star coins or hidden blocks like those beside walls at the door to a castle boss. My cousin couldn't figure out how I knew where to look and find these things when I was playing this for the first time. Thinking about, I just knew what to do from having played all the NSMB games and other Mario games up to this point. You've just long been trained on this stuff as a player. Yet, the more I played the game after he left, the more it stuck with me because I just wasn't finding the game super fun and was wondering if it was because of all the other Mario games I'd played up to this point. Was the series just too repetitive now? Was Nintendo too stuck in sticking to fans expectations? Could they change things up or would that be rejected? That was my headspace through the first 4 worlds.

Finally, in World 5, when I encountered a sort of repeat to the Forest of Illusion from SMW, I discovered the secret level through the Ghost House to the Parabeetle level and the game suddenly started opening up again in fun and challenge. There was the strange Van Gogh art level right after and I began to enjoy the game a lot. It definitely had a lot of hard secret exits and I ended up having to use a guide to find them which I hadn't done for a Mario game in a long time. Not sure if that's a good thing but it just seems to symbolize the unevenness this game had for me of being half blah and half really fun. It's just a shame it took so long to reach the fun point. I think SMW still has a better cohesive and put together overworld but it was nice to see that return ever so briefly in this game. But after this game, I also share the opinion that it is time to put the "NSMB" series to rest especially when the DLC expansion pack manages to outrank the main game.

#5. Super Mario Bros. 3 - This is where things are going to get hard. But right now, SMB3, a favorite or number one choice for many, is falling at number 5 for me. My experience with this game mainly comes from Mario All-Stars. In many ways the template for most Mario games to come, there is a lot to like about this game and it is probably the pinnacle of the NES. That said, years later when I bought an NES, I also later picked up a copy of this game and after playing it a bit in its original form, I prefer the All-Stars version for looks and save states. One effect of the recent batch of NSMB and the recent 3D World games is that it has diluted the appeal of SMB3 to me. A lot of the things that were new or original in this game have since been cropping up a lot in these games and have been getting reused in them. Sure, they might not be using everything in the game but at this point so much has been copied that thinking about playing SMB3 doesn't interest me as much as it used to.

I still think it's a great game that showcases why Mario became and has stayed so popular with gamers. Yet, at the same time, I'm in no hurry or feel any urge to play it anytime soon. It might come from overfamiliarity (which will come up again with another game.) It might be all the forced screen scrolling in the 8th world of tanks and airships where you are waiting for the screen to move so you can move instead of being able to run at will that makes the end feel like its bogging down. Perhaps I'm just used to exploring more or looking for more secrets in a Mario game than just going from point A to point B each level. There are a couple worlds where I just feel like taking out the warp whistle and jumping ahead because interest starts to wane, usually worlds 3 or 6. Whatever the case, the other games ahead of it just speak and appeal to me more and right now, I just seem to feel like I've played it enough.

#4. Super Mario Bros. - I know there won't be many people that put SMB ahead of SMB3. Of the lists made by Luigi Dude and Mop it up, Super Mario Bros. ranked 10th both times. Yet, this game still appeals to me. It might be the least visually impressive of the Mario games. It only has two power-ups which are the Mushroom and Fire Flower. However, I see it as platforming and gaming distilled to its essence. It teaches you everything so simply in the beginning. Mario is facing a direction for you to run. Even if you want to go in the other direction you are blocked so instinctively you know you have only one way to go. The first thing you see is a flashing question block to raise your curiosity. There's also an enemy walking your way. You learn to jump. To land on the enemies. That question marks contain goodies to make them worth checking out. The higher and higher pipes teach you to make running leaps to get more distance for platforms. It's obvious and simple but conveys these ideas with no language. It can be picked up by anyone. Maybe I'm waxing poetic but that's what I think of when I think of SMB.

Plus, the game is tough. I think it still makes a good platforming challenge. I really dislike most NES games. They may have been great when they came out and gaming was still growing but the technical limitations they had and continue to have cause them to suffer in comparison to most games that have been released since the 16 bit era. I lose interest with pretty much most of the NES games I try to play. SMB is one of the very few NES games to overcome those limitations and still be worthy of playing in todays modern era. It's one of the few Mario games I still keep popping in and playing to this day. I was part of the 3DS Ambassador program. I liked getting the 10 GBA games. The NES games not so much. The only one of the 10 games I've bothered to play either at all or more than once or twice is SMB. I still like to load it up in any system and see how far I can get with no warping. It's a great challenge and still remains fun to me after all this time. Perhaps the difficulty, the sort of bland visuals or always being told the princess is in another castle could be tiring or disinteresting to some players today like other NES games can be to me. Yet despite all that, to me, I think this should be every person's introduction to gaming and is still one of Mario's finest outings. It's why 2D platforming is still a big thing in Nintendo development. There's magic here.

[Khushrenada]

The Khushrenada Rankings #3-1

#3. New Luigi Bros. U - Maybe it benefits from some recency bias having been the last and latest 2D Mario game for me to play but I don't think I'm wrong to place it so high. Unlike the breezy and languid pace of NSMBU's beginning, from the very beginning Luigi U puts you under the gun with only 100 seconds so you immediately feel like you have to pick up the pace. Now you are rushing to the finish line to make it in time and can't always be as careful as you might be with more time in the Mario version. On top of that, there are still 3 hidden star coins per level for you to find. How fast can you search through a level to find them and still make it to the end?

The expectation for the game is that you would most likely have completed Mario U so the difficulty seems to be a bit higher as well. I wouldn't say it's the highest degree of difficulty in a Mario game. Lost Levels may have that. It is just difficult enough to keep you engaged and paying attention and still having fun. There is a sweet spot that this game just seems to nail. Since levels aren't too long, you seem to progress at a quicker pace which in turn keeps you excited to keep playing since you are seeing so much progress. There's even the fun little touch of every level having a "hidden" Luigi face/character in each level. You get nothing for finding them yet I just enjoyed searching for them or seeing them. Just this simple thing that really appealed to me and made the game extra enjoyable. The biggest drawback to this game is how closely it adheres to the Mario U map. It's the same layout, the secret exits are in the same levels, the levels all seem to use the same hook or have the same makeup as the spot they would in Mario U. That takes away a bit of the freshness and appeal this game has. Although, even then, despite knowing that a secret exit had to be in a level, I had to look up a FAQ on a couple because it never occurred to me to search for a spot where it sounds  or looks like Mario is walking on hidden bricks instead of ground.

I was playing though some of Mario 3D World before deciding to come back and finish this game. I've gone back to 3D World now where I am currently at the 6th world. Right now, Luigi U seems like it will have been the better experience and game. I find 3D World to alternate between fun and inspired to monotonous or repetitive. Sometimes, at the same time. It's a game I'll play a few levels of and then just want to put down and walk away from. I don't know if it is the collecting aspect of the game or the level design or something else I haven't put my finger on but I find it hard to keep up sustained play of the game.

With Luigi U, when I first bought the game, I put it in my system just to test it and make sure it worked and ended up beating the first 2 worlds because it was so engaging. I reluctantly set it aside so that it wouldn't distract me from finishing other games and it wasn't in my plans to play it all right away at that initial time. Coming back to it and continuing from that point, it hooked me again and I just wanted to keep playing it to completion. Looking at the poll, Luigi U is one of the least played Mario games and having now finished it, that is a tragedy to me. If this list accomplishes one thing hopefully it is that more people seek this game out and play it because I think it is worth it and this is what Nintendo should be encouraged to make more of instead of coin rush challenges in NSMB2.

(I'll finish posting my thoughts on the final two games in awhile but it's time for a break. However, I won't leave you wondering as to what they are so I'll list them without explanations for their ranking for now.)

#2. Super Mario World -

#1. New Super Mario Bros. Wii -