Topic: Bionic Commando

[Rize]

I've beaten it on normal ignoring challenges and collectables, and am now half-way through hard trying to get all the collectables and complete many of the challenges. I'm enjoying it a lot and intend to play the hardest difficulty after this (at which time I will ignore the god forsaken collectables and focus on staying alive).

My personal review: the game's got a lot of little flaws (flaky presentation, a really bad story, linear level progression, only a few bosses and only one really good one) but they're superficial flaws mostly. The core gameplay is really fun and the bionic arm mechanics just get better and better as you gain experience with them. The game's biggest sin is lack of basic content. A single play through is only about 8 hours if you don't try to get the relatively pointless "collectables" (tokens that serve no gameplay purpose whatsoever except occasionally to draw your attention to a certain area). Despite the lack of content, the game is worth replaying on harder modes. You take less and less damage forcing you to use the arm more expertly to evade and attack groups of soldiers (and you have a better idea of where you can and can't go). Anyone who was interested in this before the 70% review average ought to at least rent it. Just note that the game likes to kill people who lack skill!

[Caliban]

The only thing that I don't like about this game is that you can't go back to a specific level just in case one collectible was missed. Bionic Commando Rearmed gave such choice, so why couldn't this one.

[Mop it up]

I could never get into that game because of the complete lack of direction... and also a lack of a save feature.

[Rize]

Mop_it_up: I'm talking about the new one (on the 360 and/or PS3) not the old NES

[Flames_of_chaos]

I think the game suffered because the developers, GRIN released 3 games at once(Bionic Commando, Terminator Salvation and Wanted). Working on 3 different projects will definitely thin out resources(all 3 received mixed or average reviews). I heard that because Terminator and Wanted are doing really poorly, GRIN laid off around 140 people.

[KDR_11k]

Meh, if they have 140 people to fire that means they're large enough to handle three projects at once.

[Caliban]

Actually they closed 2 of their subsidiaries, Barcelona (Spain), Gothenburg (Sweden), and in Indonesia (wtf). Only 30 were laid off from their HQ in Stockholm (Sweden).

http://kotaku.com/5271661/rumor-mass-layoffs-hit-bionic-commando-developer-grin

[Mop it up]

Mop_it_up: I'm talking about the new one (on the 360 and/or PS3) not the old NES

Oops. I didn't even know there was a new one... 

[Rize]

Playing this game has made me rethink how I view games based on meta ranking sites.  If the core game mechanic is really really fun (from my point of view), it almost doesn't matter if the rest of the game is mediocre or even short.

Meanwhile a game can get solid 90's (or at least 80's) because of high production values while the actual game experience is tepid at best (the latest Prince of Persia is pretty good example; the games primary redeeming quality is that it's really beautiful).

[Peachylala]

Meh, if they have 140 people to fire that means they're large enough to handle three projects at once.

Welcome to the HD generation. =D

[KDR_11k]

I think for me the core mechanic is a foundation that can be built upon but it's the level design that really decides whether it works out. There are many games that have clever mechanics that could be used for some awesome puzzles but never go beyond "push box A onto switch B". I think Fracture was a game that made shitty use of its main feature.

[Rize]

That's very true of course.  Obviously the core mechanic doesn't do anything in a vacuum.

People seemed to want an open worlds for Bionic Commando, but I think the level design ended up a lot tighter with the linear design.  Each individual level isn't completely linear, but you'll easily find and run into the artificial boundary (which takes the form of deadly radiation or water).  Games always have to contrive a boundary defining where the player can go no further.  That's especially difficult in a game where you can fly (or otherwise go just about anywhere you like).  An open world game like GTA ends up with a pretty natural boundary by setting the entire game in a big city on an island or something but those are getting awful repetitive.  Even BC is set on an island (I think it was originally going to be designed as an open world game).

[Flames_of_chaos]

The NPD sales results aren't pretty. The combined sales of both the PS3 and 360 versions is less than 30,000.

[Caliban]

Wow that's quite bad.

[KDR_11k]

I wonder what it cost to make...

[BlackNMild2k1]

cost just under 20mill US to make

& best cast scenario, 30k sold in US @ $60 a game = $1.8mill earned

subtract retailer cut, developer pay, advertising budget, packaging & shipping and whatever else gets factored in and Capcom is not happy right now & GRIN is probably not gonna be getting much more high profile work anytime soon. 3 Big Budget High Profile HD bombs in a row.

Less has killed better developers (F5)

[Flames_of_chaos]

I wonder what it cost to make...

According to GRIN's CEO about 150 Million Swedish Kroner or roughly 19.6 Million US Dollars.

[TJ Spyke]

3 Big Budget High Profile HD bombs in a row.

I assume you mean "Terminator Salvation" and "Wanted: Weapons of Destruction"? Do we know how those did?

GRIN will probably get relegate back to doing PC ports of console games (there previous two retail games were the PC ports of the GRAW games).

[Flames_of_chaos]

3 Big Budget High Profile HD bombs in a row.

I assume you mean "Terminator Salvation" and "Wanted: Weapons of Destruction"? Do we know how those did?

GRIN will probably get relegate back to doing PC ports of console games (there previous two retail games were the PC ports of the GRAW games).

Well lets put it this way Terminator and Wanted did so badly that GRIN laid off 140 people because of how they performed.

[Rize]

It's a shame.  For all it's flaws, BC is actually very fun once you accept it's limitations.

Famitsu actually gave it a 34/40 (9 9 9 7): http://bioniccommando.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1591

[KDR_11k]

Does the plot twist with the girlfriend really beat the walrus hotline?

[Rize]

It's pretty retarded, but then Bionic Commando's entire story is retarded so by that time it's not that big a blow.  In fact, part of me thinks it's a brilliant satire of a certain plot element in the Metal Gear Solid franchise.

Now the ending inFamous made me want to punch things because that story was doing fine up until that point.

[Enner]

GRIN closes up shop.
It's a shame because GRIN nailed the swinging in Bionic Commando which is the one thing they needed to nail. Unfortunently, a lot of the rest of the game was not good. Seeing as how the BC (2009) sold, this big revamp of an old franchise is DOA.

[Deguello]

Bionic Commando is probably dead for good, now.  Because you can't come back from the "too cool for school" "ultra mature" revival to something a little more close to it's original design.

Same thing happened with Final Fight with that lump of retardedness called Final Fight: Streetwise.

[KDR_11k]

At least Konami could still make a Ninja Five-O game. That involved swinging and was totally awesome.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Bionic Commando is probably dead for good, now.  Because you can't come back from the "too cool for school" "ultra mature" revival to something a little more close to it's original design.

Same thing happened with Final Fight with that lump of retardedness called Final Fight: Streetwise.

That was one of the games which caused Capcom to close its US development house.

[KDR_11k]

More mindless jerks for the wall! Watch HD gaming implode!

[Infernal Monkey]

lol finally a studio that deserved to go under does. GRIN was pathetic and I hope their character designer never finds another job in this or any other industry.



LOOK AT THIS ****. Way to ruin a great IP, guys.

[Flames_of_chaos]

I wonder what will happen to Ben Judd, the Capcom employee that contracted GRIN to do Bionic Commando.

[Caliban]

Let's not forget GRIN also made Bionic Commando Rearmed, and it's a great game.

lol finally a studio that deserved to go under does. GRIN was pathetic and I hope their character designer never finds another job in this or any other industry.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gg1j%2BgkXL._SS550_.jpg

LOOK AT THIS ****. Way to ruin a great IP, guys.

What's so bad about it, or is just personal preference?

[Flames_of_chaos]

Personally I think character for the most part in this generation is terrible and generic.

[Caliban]

Link has worn the same green tunic for 20+ years. Talk about generic already.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

He's the ONLY one wearing that tunic.  That's not generic, it's signature and celebrity-like.

Generic is common mass-produced for the massive masses, things like baldness on marines whose careers tend to be in space.

[Deguello]

Let's not forget GRIN also made Bionic Commando Rearmed, and it's a great game.

All you've said here is that Bionic Commando, the NES game, was a good game.  You are crediting the painters for building the house when all they did was paint it.  Games they actually CREATED suck, and sucked so bad they died.

What's so bad about it, or is just personal preference?

This is something you would have to experience with a good 6 years of people clamoring for Nintendo to make Mario and Link "more mature" and how absolutely retarded that idea is.  Mainly because, their idea of "mature" is exactly the sort of mindless, generic design that plagues Bionic Commando, and was further evidenced in Bomberman: Act Zero.  The design is a new kind of awful, generically complex, yet simply soulless.

[Caliban]

He's the ONLY one wearing that tunic.  That's not generic, it's signature and celebrity-like.

Generic is common mass-produced for the massive masses, things like baldness on marines whose careers tend to be in space.

Everyone in Kokiri forest wears a tunic.

Link is as generic as any other character can be.

Let's not forget GRIN also made Bionic Commando Rearmed, and it's a great game.

All you've said here is that Bionic Commando, the NES game, was a good game.  You are crediting the painters for building the house when all they did was paint it.  Games they actually CREATED suck, and sucked so bad they died.

No. You're the one saying that. I have never played Bionic Commando for NES.
The painters of a house are just as instrumental as the carpenters, electricians, bricklayers, etcetera... without them you wouldn't have a house.

What's so bad about it, or is just personal preference?

This is something you would have to experience with a good 6 years of people clamoring for Nintendo to make Mario and Link "more mature" and how absolutely retarded that idea is.  Mainly because, their idea of "mature" is exactly the sort of mindless, generic design that plagues Bionic Commando, and was further evidenced in Bomberman: Act Zero.  The design is a new kind of awful, generically complex, yet simply soulless.

So tell me, how was GRIN supposed to extrapolate on a design that was already generic in 1988?
Look at the boxart, and tell me that if they had the same tech from today back then that they wouldn't try to do something similar? Of course we ended up with this because of technical limitations.



All I'm saying is that whether it's Link, or any other character, it all comes down to personal preference. Claiming them to be generic is irrelevant, and even more so to use such a term to justify how well a game did in the market.

[bustin98]

I wouldn't call the character generic. But I would say that just because Grin put a fresh coat of pixels on a NES game doesn't mean they get to take credit for it being a good game. How many people are saying Metal Gear Twin Snakes is a good game thanks to Silicon Knights? Its just a fresh look at an old game with some tooling around thrown in.

The character may lack something that is appealing, but dreadlocks aren't plentiful. A huge metallic arm with his wife embeded isn't very common.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"Everyone in Kokiri forest wears a tunic.

Link is as generic as any other character can be."

The Kokiri made their biggest mark ONCE in the series, living hidden away from the rest of society.  In the scheme of popular VIDEO GAMES, they're a unique niche within several layers of niche, and `this` green tunic comes hand in hand embodied in a recurring character we know as Link.

Don't try to make insignificant details significant and come back with examples that are actually relavant to the scope.

Try convincing us why Mario shouldn't have a mustache, why don't you.

[KDR_11k]

Yeah, generic means generic across gaming, not generic within their game world.

[Deguello]

The painters of a house are just as instrumental as the carpenters, electricians, bricklayers, etcetera... without them you wouldn't have a house.

No.  No they aren't.  To put it another way, if you hired some painters to paint your house and they charged you a full bill for the house's construction, you'd be pissed off, because they didn't build the house.

The character may lack something that is appealing, but dreadlocks aren't plentiful. A huge metallic arm with his wife embeded isn't very common.

No that plotline was already done before in the first PS2 Castlevania (and it sucked, too).

So tell me, how was GRIN supposed to extrapolate on a design that was already generic in 1988?

By working hard?  By maybe making it resemble more like something in the original game?  Either way they failed and made something that literally blends into the crowd and thus failed.

[Caliban]

Yeah, generic means generic across gaming, not generic within their game world.

I know that. I meant in the sense that if the same character design is used for over 20 years, why can't it be considered generic?

[KDR_11k]

It's only generic if everyone uses it, if one character uses it for 20 years it's a trademark.

[Peachylala]

Link's tunic is genetic? As a Zelda fan, that insults me.

Pro basically said what I was going to say, but might as well add somethig else. The Kokiri only made a mark once in the Zelda universe, and that was Ocarina of Time. If anyone pays attention to a minor plot details (which we should humbly thank Yoshiaki Koizumi for), the tunic is the symbol of a legendary hero who bears the mark of the Triforce of Courage. This was brought about in Wind Waker, to an extent. So, frankly, the Kokiri tunic was the base of which Link's legend was built.

As far to my knowledge, Zelda 1/2/LttP/LA didn't acknowledge this element.

Bionic Commando is probably dead for good, now.  Because you can't come back from the "too cool for school" "ultra mature" revival to something a little more close to it's original design.

Same thing happened with Final Fight with that lump of retardedness called Final Fight: Streetwise.

To be fair, the mature look of FF: Slumpwise would've worked if the gameplay didn't suck massive amounts of ass.

And Bomberman: Act Zero. That game can burn in hell and rot. Thank you for nearly destorying a legendary multiplayer character, HD generation.

And back to Bionic Commando... Ignoring the Wii in favor for HD maturity when the Wii-mote could've EASILY emulated the chain grapple is perfect proof that developer pride will bite you in the ass.

God I love this generation of Highly Dramatic failures.

[Rize]

lol finally a studio that deserved to go under does. GRIN was pathetic and I hope their character designer never finds another job in this or any other industry.

Yes that's kind of retarded, but it least they didn't make him generic, almost-shaved-bald, tough-guy number 1038.  They tried to do something a little different.

Also, I wonder how many people who are declaring them pathetic actually played any of their games (particularly the ones they gave a **** about such as either Bionic Commando.. including the console game not just the XBLA).  Also, to say that rearmed was just a fresh coat of paint is understating things significantly.

[Peachylala]

BC for PS360 was no a fresh coat of paint, but a whole new game based on an old (and memorable) gameplay mechanic that sudden;y self-destructed in bad level design choices.

The BC remake, however, is just a fresh coat of paint. IMHO, it lost some of the So Bad It's Good charm that made the NES version awesome.

[Rize]

Personally, I prefer the original BC over the remake, and the new 3D game over either of them.  The original BC is fun and nostalgic, but the sense of pure gameplay adrenaline I get from swinging around in the new game is just unparalleled in any game I've ever played. 

The main reason the new one is so much fun for me is that the swinging has just the right amount of control mixed with automatic behavior.  If you fail in a swing, you usually just end up on the ground, or end up dangling like a fool (rather than dead).  This is enough of a penalty to make it really rewarding when you get it right and swing with authority (which happens more and more as you increase your skills).  Contrast this with Prototype which lets you run up walls and glide and generally act like a bad ass.  It's empowering and fun (and far more accessible), but I never get the same sense of awesomeness as I get in Bionic Commando because they is almost zero consequence for making a mistake (which is a good thing, because the controls aren't precise enough in Prototype).

Very few games give you a unique way to move around, so I'm willing to cut the rest of a game some slack if they do something like BC did and really nail it.

[KDR_11k]

Did you play Ninja Five-O?

[Rize]

nope.  I just watched some videos and it doesn't look very fluid.