Author Topic: The Next Console Generation Will Be The Last...... Except For Nintendo  (Read 11928 times)

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Offline ThePerm

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Rokus have some hardware behind them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoCore

Probably somewhere between a Nintendo DS and Xbox 360, but with really good video playback capabilities.
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Offline lolmonade

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I'd be lying if I said I was completely up to speed on streaming tech/services.


That said, 5mbps doesn't do matchmaking for games well, and doesn't do game streaming well, either.  Even from the argument of "download a portion of the game, then the streaming service will stream the rest", we're talking about spending an inordinate amount of time on that speed downloading a healthy amount of a 25+GB game, then having to hope that 5 mbps is stable enough to provide a consistent experience.  I don't see anyone talking about 60fps 4k like you're asserting.  We're Nintendo Fans, I think our expectations are lowered a bit :)


Do you have a steam link?  Have you tried streaming services?  I've used PS Now and a Steam link, and there's a wide variance in streaming quality anywhere below 100mbps, which is considered my area's "top-tier" residential package.  I can't gauge your theoretical of the bulk of the game being downloaded, because it's not in a state that's testable from a consumer standpoint, at least not at my home currently.


And from a business standpoint (someplace I AM a little more well versed in), like I mentioned before - ISPs and broad access to stable, consistent internet is going to be the problem.  A company like Sony's ability to sell their last-gen consoles to less developed nations afterwards is going to be a problem. 


To reiterate, not trying to be argumentative.  I'm just not sold anyone but Microsoft who has 1) a very limited footprint outside North America, and 2) Has incentive to integrate with their entire suite of products pushing hard for the all digital, all streaming future.

Offline ThePerm

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In certain places in the US you can get 1Gb speed.  New York, Connecticut, Delaware, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Texas, and California, and Florida from FIOS or Frontier. The Google Fiber has some territory. We would probably have superfast internet anywhere if out country was efficient. I used to get calls working at my old company about people wanting our fiber services, but alas there was some idiocy somewhere down the line. Replacing network infrastructure even with billions of dollars to spend seems to be impossible.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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I live in a smaller city and we have a local company that's basically doing what Google Fiber is doing, buying up all the unused fiber cables that are already laid down and offering up to gigabit speeds. I think more places doing that is the only way we're ever going to see real penetration for that kind of speed. Unfortunately they don't currently offer their service where I live, but I've been thinking about moving and if I do one of my highest priorities will be going somewhere I can get that.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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That processor is weak. It's good for video playback, because that's what it's designed for. Also there's like a miles-long gap between a DS and an Xbox 360 - it's certainly more powerful than a DS, but I'd imagine it's somewhat close to an Nvidia Tegra 4 (Ouya) in terms of power.
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Offline lolmonade

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Yeah, I see "advanced" internet connectivity solutions and move away from physical to digital/streaming similarly to how I see the autonomous car going - the technology will be there, but bureaucracy, vested interests, and business incentives slow-walking progress will be what keeps us back more than the material capability for it to be a viable solution.

Offline MagicCow64

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Yeah, I see "advanced" internet connectivity solutions and move away from physical to digital/streaming similarly to how I see the autonomous car going - the technology will be there, but bureaucracy, vested interests, and business incentives slow-walking progress will be what keeps us back more than the material capability for it to be a viable solution.
I think this is pretty spot on. I read a bit about the state of things after this thread, and Microsoft allegedly has super-low latency tech in place for remote desktops/Azure stuff. Theoretically this could be applied to gaming solutions, although the processing is more intense, and it would have to be outside of the enterprise pipelines where it currently works. So if this turns out to be true, you would be able to run current games playably if you lived within ~100 miles of the server and had a fiber connection running the distance. I have to imagine this will still be a rare set-up even in ten years, either through lack of infrastructure, geographic infelicity, or just plain affordability.

Offline lolmonade

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Yeah, I see "advanced" internet connectivity solutions and move away from physical to digital/streaming similarly to how I see the autonomous car going - the technology will be there, but bureaucracy, vested interests, and business incentives slow-walking progress will be what keeps us back more than the material capability for it to be a viable solution.
I think this is pretty spot on. I read a bit about the state of things after this thread, and Microsoft allegedly has super-low latency tech in place for remote desktops/Azure stuff. Theoretically this could be applied to gaming solutions, although the processing is more intense, and it would have to be outside of the enterprise pipelines where it currently works. So if this turns out to be true, you would be able to run current games playably if you lived within ~100 miles of the server and had a fiber connection running the distance. I have to imagine this will still be a rare set-up even in ten years, either through lack of infrastructure, geographic infelicity, or just plain affordability.


Phil Spencer and Giant Bomb's Jeff Gerstmann actually had a good exchange on this subject too.  It'll likely be a gradual move as an "option" for games whose latency and fps aren't as important.  But they're decidedly not out of the "sell you a console" market.

Offline segagamersteph

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I think it is the future, and we're a hell of a lot closer now than we were the last time this topic came up. The fact they keep pushing it, pushing downloads, streaming, internet connectivity it's inevitable. If this next gen lasts the usual 6 or 7 years and the current gen finishes its 6 years that puts us into 2030 before all this takes place, or 2028 at the earliest. By then internet connectivity will no longer be an issue, hell it's hardly an issue now.

Offline lolmonade

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I think it is the future, and we're a hell of a lot closer now than we were the last time this topic came up. The fact they keep pushing it, pushing downloads, streaming, internet connectivity it's inevitable. If this next gen lasts the usual 6 or 7 years and the current gen finishes its 6 years that puts us into 2030 before all this takes place, or 2028 at the earliest. By then internet connectivity will no longer be an issue, hell it's hardly an issue now.




I disagree with your take on the state of the internet today, but could see a possibility that by Xbox Two and PS5s end-of-life, the landscape being drastically different.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 10:05:17 AM by lolmonade »



Offline ThePerm

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Offline MagicCow64

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I mean, it's definitely a problem now. I live two miles from the downtown of the biggest city in my state and I can't get a fiber connection. The best internet package available to me is completely mediocre. There is a competing provider, but it's for a budget-level sub-broadband connection. Nobody has any plans to extend fiber to my neighborhood. Google Fiber was going to do the whole city, supposedly, but shut down due to regulatory turbulence/industry lobbying. I have family who live in the third biggest city in my state who are only serviced by one provider with absolutely horrendous speeds for their regular package, which is all they can afford. Like, 1 meg download speeds. Maybe President Elon Musk in 2025 will make this a top priority, but I doubt it.

Offline lolmonade

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I mean, it's definitely a problem now. I live two miles from the downtown of the biggest city in my state and I can't get a fiber connection. The best internet package available to me is completely mediocre. There is a competing provider, but it's for a budget-level sub-broadband connection. Nobody has any plans to extend fiber to my neighborhood. Google Fiber was going to do the whole city, supposedly, but shut down due to regulatory turbulence/industry lobbying. I have family who live in the third biggest city in my state who are only serviced by one provider with absolutely horrendous speeds for their regular package, which is all they can afford. Like, 1 meg download speeds. Maybe President Elon Musk in 2025 will make this a top priority, but I doubt it.


I'm guessing Steph is suggesting that the technology behind gaming streaming will improve so that someone with 10-25 mbps will be able to play most games without much issue, rather than the rest of the country catching up on higher end internet speeds.


But who knows.  It's fair to say in a decade, we have no idea what the internet/technology landscape will look like.

Offline Soren

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Throwing some numbers into this discussion.
https://gizmodo.com/if-streaming-is-the-future-of-console-gaming-it-might-1827056790

Quote
According to Akamai, the average internet speed in the United States is just 18.7Mbps, which would deliver just 720p at 60fps. Worse, a quarter of homes in the U.S. are unable to get broadband-level speeds, which is defined as 25Mbps or higher. In fact, only one in five houses can get 25Mbps. Which means only one in five houses could effectively stream games—and even then, not at the quality they might be accustomed to when playing directly off a console.


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Offline segagamersteph

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But it's a moving goal post. A few years ago broadband was defined as 3 Meg speeds. Now it's 25.

The problem you all are having is you are expecting 1080p 60 FPS full HD rnedering and I am saying the market will accept a lower quality product to make this happen.

It's not about the speeds. It's about what the users want. I know video is different but the disparity between Netlfix so-called HD and normal DVD quality is laughable. Nobody seems to care. I think it will be the same with gaming. The ultra hard core gamers will complain but chances are most of them already have strong internet anyways. Everyone else will either be fine with 480p and not know the difference. Most people can't even tell they are not getting true HD with Netflix as is and still think DVD is as good as Blu Ray.

I am being realistic and you are all talking idealistic. There is a difference. It's NOT going to be ideal conditions for 1080p but the market will gladly take a step back for convenience. Case in point, the Wii was SD at a time when the other two were pushing into HD. Even since then the average consumer still is satisfied with the fake HD Netflix gives them and they don't even bat an eye.

We have the speeds RIGHT NOW to stream GameCube level games in SD. We can stream 360/Wii U Switch level games in a reasonable facsimile of HD the average consumer won't give a ****, including the vast majority of Nintendo gamers.

I am NOT arguing that we can stream TRUE HD over 15 meg speeds, but I am absolutely certain we can stream something the mass market will accept at that speed. The quality improves, the experience improves, as your speed increases. It is the way the market is going. FOr every one of us who bemoan the death of physical there's 1500 young twerps celebrating the death of physical. We're out numbered. We lost. The masses won't care and the hard core gamers will gravitate to PC. It's not likely to be 100 percent perfect over night but it's certainly acceptable for the vast majority of gamers and consumers now. The hard cores gamers who actually care about FPS and all that are the minority they don't drive the market. Never have despite all their delusions. If they did the Switch/Wii/DS/GameBoy would have all tanked.


Offline ThePerm

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15 megabits is dogshit. That is the bare minimum someone should have if they want to use a web browser. The low end FIOS customers tend to have 50/5 Mb a second.

https://fios.verizon.com/fios-speeds.html

**** 50 was the low end 4 years ago when I worked there. 100/100 for 59.99 is better than it used to be. Too bad it's mostly east coast and California.

Broadband was only 3 here in America, where we have low end internet because we let the corporations hold us back. It wasn't good back then when I had customers calling just to bitch how slow their internet was. Then you have to explain what different speeds are capable of. 3 and 15 aren't good for gaming, especially not streaming gameplay off a server.

There's a reason why the Resident Evil 7 was meant for Japan only. The internet is better over there.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 04:28:04 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline lolmonade

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Steph, you're putting words into our mouths saying we all expect 1080p/60fps with streaming.  We're all Nintendo fans here, you put up with inconsistent framerates and lower than bleeding edge graphics all the time.  We're all pretty conditioned to the "good enough" spectrum by being a part of the community. 


I started writing out a post, but realized you're pretty dug-into your opinion of how this'll play out and us being pessimists.  Only time will tell on this question, but getting this to be a viable mass-market solution is multi-faceted and not just about the technological capability -  but I have less faith in ISPs getting the internet quality up to snuff with the market at large, and the mbps is only one facet of the entire picture of what makes game streaming work. 



Offline segagamersteph

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no, you are being fair. I was being a pessimist myself because I am just tired. Life has been kicking my ass so I don't have any fight left in me, I am trying not to be a jerk.
I honestly don't like it I just think it is inevitable. I all the things that have been pointed out to contradict my assesment don't in my mind. It sounds exactly like to me it will suck and the market won't care because we're used to shitty internet. I am NOT trying to defend the telecoms here. I know I kind of was defending comast but that was more calling out the myth of them having a monopoly in anymarket. A monopoly of GOOD internet maybe but I am of the mindset that internet is a luxury item not a utility. So to that end you are right I am not changing my mind. Four years of college didn't change my mind it only reaffirmed my stance. I believe in capitalism point blank. I also firmly believe that as long as people's basic needs are met everything else is pure gravy and absolutely not worth fighting over. Especially something as trivial as internet. Extra especially when talking about internet in the context of video games. It's not life or death to me.

Perm, 15 meg being dogshit is literally your opinion. Not to sound like a tool but it certainly is more than adequate for gaming. Not ideal, not the best but it's passable. I am certainly happy with my 25 meg speed in terms of I can browse the internet and web pages load as expected. I can download games, upload my podcast and YouTube videos and stream Netflix daily. I can't do more than two things at a time but so what? It's not the end of the world and it's certainly a hell of a lot better than it was just 5 years ago when I couldn't get 8 meg speeds to save my life. I had 3 meg in 2006. I didn't get 6 meg until 2009. I didn't get 8 meg until 2013, and I jumped from 25 meg to 100 meg over night in Texas, literally they just opened up the bandwidth one month. Now I am on 25 meg hughs net and while it's not as fast as what is out there it is faster than what we had before.

Also, we're a hell of a lot more spread out than Japan and we have other social problems they don't have which get in the way of things. Not to mention the astronomical amounts of money we spend on our military they don't even have. It's not apples to apples at all. It's priorities. I, personally, would rather invest the limited money elsewhere and let the things that are not life threatening, like internet speeds, progress naturally instead of artificially inflating speeds to satisfy a minority of users. Of course I am assuming entirely legal usage here not getting into the shadier stuff that often accompany those demanding faster speeds. not accusing anyone just saying that's often the motive and gaming or streaming is a used as a cover.

I, know I am rambling but I don't care, not a damn person on this site takes me seriously so why should I try to convince anyone to change their mind? I just like to challenge people. Even if I agree with you secretly, you'll never know because I will always try to see the other side of an argument and push people to defend their points. It kind of goes with being a journalist, I try to see both sides of any argument.

Besides, Big Brother 20 started, that's all that matters for the next 3 months.

Offline segagamersteph

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I just want to follow through with this to prove I am not a damn idiot.We're complaining about telecoms not increasing internet speeds fast enough to satisfy the market and blaming it on telecoms controlling the internet market. But that is a a one sided, narrow perspective.

Before we had internet all communication was tremendously faster than it is now. why?

Because cable companies were delivering a tight NTC beam over a coaxial cable  at the speed of light, and phone companies were transmitting TCP/IP packets over telephone lines at speeds so slow your watch wouldn't be able to connect. Back then internet speeds were atrocious but television, phone, radio, and even short band coverage was fantastic.
Here is what actually happened. Cable companies had higher bandwidth to spare so they began offering access to TCP/IP packets (very inefficient method of transmitting data BTW) in order to attract those high paying internet customers away from the phone companies. Phone companies couldn't compete so they invested in installing DSL lines and T3 lines as fast as they could afford to in order to stave off the cable companies.

Then the market kept moving at a pace faster than either types of companies could keep up. Broadcast radio providers had to share bandwidth now with more TV stations and increasing cell phone providers. Less bandwidth to go around so either a, invest in more towers, or b, consolidate to cut costs. They chose to do both. Radio companies began consolidating in order to cut costs because they could run multiple stations out of a single office. Jobs were lost. Money was tightened.

The market kept moving at a pace faster than tech could keep up. Broadcast TV stations were facing increased costs and less bandwidth because cell phones. They made the switch to digital in a way to get more out of the bandwidth they had access to. But cell phone companies continued to demand more data so they had to build more towers. Governments were slow to invest in building more towers because demand was exceeding the supply and costs were going up as a result.
The market kept moving at a pace faster than the cable companies could keep up. Facing increased competition from cable companies, and wireless providers, phone companies had to adapt. They had to continue to increase their spending on adding lines, increasing their cost, but not being able to charge more because of outdated laws and having less access to bandwidth. Cable companies took advantage and cut their throats by offering VOIP. Phone companies had no choice but to consolidate, cutting costs while bleeding customers and losing profits.

The market kept moving at a pace faster than the government could keep up. Because phone companies were treated like utilities and cable companies were not that gave cable companies the upper hand. So they began consolidating in an effort to squeeze out competition and make siphon all those internet users into their customer base. They problem was they were now facing increased competition from mobile carriers and they had to invest money in infrastructure.

Here is the reality. Broadcast TV and radio signals are actually incredibly fast, even faster than fiber optic. A straight shot, at the speed of light, with multiple translators and satellites allowd for the instantaneous transmission of HUNDREDS of NTSC channels simultaneously for pennies. This allowed satellite and cable companies to increase the product they offered while slowly increasing the bandwidth for internet usage.
The market kept moving at a pace faster than satellite companies could keep up. They were now forced to also dedicate some of their bandwidth to the increasing TCP/IP packets being transmitted.

The problem comes down to the very nature of the internet. If you wanted instant access to HD ATSC TV with On Demand capabilities investing in cable made a whole lot more sense. BUt we didn't do that. Instead we, (Us the gamers and them the hackers/pirates) kept pushing for faster internet speeds so we could

1. Cut the cord and have a negative impact on broadcast companies whos's costs kept rising but profits were sinking.2. Provide unfair free alternatives (often relying on theft of Intellectual Property) for news sites which taught the public to expect free access to news while using ad blockers (under the guise of saving bandwidth or protest choose your poison) and forcing newspapers (the cornerstone of our Republic) to go bankrupt or consolidate.3. Network our video games while demanding telecoms increase speed without providing them incentives for investing and then demonizing the companies providing our services to us.
4. Newspapers, broadcasters, cable companies, network providers and wireless companies were all forced to consolidate putting us in the situation where content providers have to sell to content developers in order to stay in business.5. We have to pay for all of this by losing access to solid reporting at the local and state level, replaced by a social media platform that propgated Fake News to the point of influencing not only the election but the response by companies (many of whom have resorted to collecting and selling data in order to stay in business) while demonizing journalists (broadcast, print, radio, digital) as a scapegoat for the mess we created.6. We continue to demand cable companies decrease their bandwidth devoted to providing INSTANT access to HD content by replacing it with increasing bandwidth for more TCP/IP packets which have to travel in spider web mazes before reaching their destination. This, while increasing vulnerabilities and decreasing consumer safety. (in the name of faster internet)7. Increase dependence on data forced wireless companies to consolidate and reduce competition while purchasing other media and communications companies to streamline the process and increase revenues while cutting costs (jobs) in an effort to continue to meet demand for a product that is an absolute luxury at best but treated as a life or death utility.

I could go on, but as I work in the media business and I studied the affects the INTERNET has had on destroying the very business we are all not complaining we are losing all because WE demanded faster internet in the name of video games.

At the end of the day there are 7 billion people on the planet, less than 400 million world wide are gamers. I don't think we should invest, or force companies to invest, resources into increasing internet speeds anymore than we already have.
I was on that side until I went back to Dish and freed up my internet usage for more important things. Sure my actual internet is slower than it was BUT since I can push a button and bam there is all the HD content I want, with On Demand and DVR, I remembered how much better it was to have a system where we transmitted CONTENT at the speed of light versus transmitting TCP/IP packets (with cyber risks in the process) at speeds that will NEVER match ATSC HD content delivered at the speed of light over the 50 year old cables we installed before there even was an internet.

It comes down to convenience. We demand the convencience of Netlfix and instant chat and playing games online without realizing the costs it had to our society. Are we better off? I don't know it sounds to me like it depends on which sector you are in. If you work for the cable companies I would say no as they have consolidated to the point where chances are you've been laid off more than once and are working now for less money than you did 20 years ago.
If you work in the broadcast TV business or the print news business I would say HELL MF NO. Because you've been laid on more than once and are working now for considerably less money than you did 20 years ago. IF you can even get a job.
If you work in radio...wireless...movie theaters... telephone companies...movie studios...cable TV networks... the list goes on.
Here let me spell it out clearer. I have a friend who got his first job working for a local ABC station in 1985. Back then he was a photo (camera man following a reporter around in a big ass van) and they paid him $18 an hour. TV stations don't even hire photos anymore. That positon has been all but eliminated to save money. Now reporters are MMJ's. Instead of sending a van with a bunch of good solid radio equipment, a news reporter, a camera man, a sound engineer to set up the mic, and a video editor (all professionals with years of experience well paid for their work) you now send out a 22 year old fresh graduate in a Chevy sonic with a backpack that contains a very lousy portable radio not that different than soldiers used in WWII. She has to carry the camera and mic herself, shoot and edit the videos and do it for, starting wage, $10 an hour.

Then we (society/gamers/techies) complain the quality of our local news has diminished and bitch when Sinclair Broadcasting petitions the government to grant them permission to SAVE the newspapers in their markets as both a cost cutting measure and desperate last ditch effort to keep real journalism alive.
Yes my attitude on the internet changed, a lot, when I left college after studying what the internet did to the news media, broadcast media and print industries. Oh and guess who makes money of it all, here is a hint it's NOT the cable companies desperately trying to maximize profits to keep meeting demands.

My news reporter friend told me he used to make $18 an hour just as a staff writer at a daily newspaper. Now he's barely getting $11 an hour and he's expected to write, shoot, and deliver the newspapers.

Forgive me if I am cynical. Forgive me if I am one to think that the more money and resources we pour into making internet speeds faster at the expense of the very journalists who would be able to do a better job fact checking and vetting sources if they didn't have to worry about being technology experts, video experts and audio experts when they are being asked to work harder for considerably less pay.

The first camera job I applied for paid $20 an hour. The last camera op job I had started at $8 an hour and I had to work 3 months to get up to ten.


TL:DR version
20 years ago we could send high speed CABLE TV at the speed of light for less money and cable companies were profitable. Internet speeds increase at the expense of bandwidth to cable and companies have to consolidate. 20 years ago journalists in the print and broadcast industries were paid a damn good wage for highly profession, skilled work. Today those same journalists do the work it used to take 4 or 5 people for less money than the lowerest paid of those previous.

Cable companies started stealing customers from phone companies but weren't regulated the same and phone companies went out of business or branched into other industries to stay afloat. The market consoldiated into the mess we have today all in the name of faster internet at the demands of gamers, a statistically insignificant percentage of the worlds population.
Final final edit and I am going to bed: even with all this taking place the larger market as a whole is still oblivious to internet speeds and how gamers are still pretending like TCP/IP is somehow better than what we had before.

I swear final edit and I am done.
If we could get away from TCP/IP and transmit RAW data over those pipelines it would be at the speed of light and we would have faster internet than we can ever imagine. Again, telecoms would gladly make the, very expensive switch, if the tech companies would get over their beloved, antequated protocol and find a way to send raw data over a direct line. the protocol was created as a way to transmit data over extremely tight bandwidth with very few nodes. We have so many nodes and open pipes now if we replaced the Internet with a direct line to data centers we'd all be in heaven with gigabit speeds.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 02:01:36 AM by segagamersteph »

Offline Adrock

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To circle back to the whole next-generation-will-be-the-last thing:

Microsoft’s next-generation Xbox reportedly arriving in 2020

Microsoft's next generation Xbox is reportedly "a family of devices" that fall under the codename Scarlet which lines up with Microsoft executive, Phil Spencer, referring to the next Xbox as plural "consoles." This quote from a different Verge article is particularly telling:
Quote
“Our cloud engineers are building a game streaming network to unlock console gaming on any device,” says Spencer, and the service will work across Xbox, PCs, or phones.

Sources: Google Is Planning A Game Platform That Could Take On Xbox And PlayStation

Now Google apparently wants a piece of the game streaming pie. Too many cooks. Too maaaaaany cooks.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 08:40:30 AM by Adrock »

Offline MagicCow64

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Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they would love for it to work. Too bad old evil dinosaur companies like Comcast easily rolled over any opposition from the Silicon Valley princes with the net neutrality thing! I don't even know about cellphones, I pay $50 a month for a line with 2 gigs of data and use it to check my email, navigate, and send texts/tweets. And almost every month I get shrieking warnings about nearing my data limit, which, if I go over, I get charged an additional $15 a gig, which also defaults my plan to a 3 gig plan and automatically charges me that for the next month too.

But that kind of brings me to a point I hadn't even touched on: why is streaming desirable? What makes it actually significantly better for a consumer than just owning a game cartridge that maintains value, or even a local download/license? Did an average home user actually benefit from having to move to a permanent Word subscription instead of just having a discrete program they could use on their computer? Why would I want to pay $100 a year for meter-expensive streaming game access rather than buying a console, new or used, at a price point I consider appropriate, and then buying games as I wish to play them?

To go full tin foil hat, I wonder whether the relentless push toward multiplayer games as well as always online and service stuff wasn't part of a long-term strategy to move everything toward subscriptions. Tail wagging the dog.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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The only real benefit to consumers would be that it would theoretically cut down on hardware costs. You don't need high end specs if all your end is doing is decoding the stream and sending button inputs, and you don't need to buy a new box every time you want a bump in graphics or processing power. I don't think that's at all worth the trade-offs, though.
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Offline ThePerm

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SGS

You're happy with your 25Mbs because that is a reasonable speed for all sorts of things. Below that and you have dogshit. That 10Mbs goes a long way. You just went from 1.87 MegaBytes a second to 3.12MegaBytes a second. You've gone from the equivalent of downloading 1/4 of a song a second to downloading 3/4 of song a second. At a lower speed you'd have trouble with youtube and you'd probably have it buffer constantly, or buffer and have a low resolution. You traveled back in time to 2009 when youtube was fun, but not nearly as good.

Being Spread out doesn't mean much to a fiber optic network. You're still dealing with the speed of light. There isn't any copper latency issues. There is still latency, but it is minimal. Every person gents their own line(sort of). As far as spending money goes I wouldn't say it is all the fault of the Federal Government or ISPs. Local governments give ISPs Monopolies and this gets in the way of progress for companies who want to build giant networks. Its the equivalent of wanting to build a railroad on land and some squatter saying you can't. ISPs get billions of dollars to build networks, and can't always do it. It's not always their fault.  The reason you had better internet in Texas was because Texas has a giant Fiber Optic Backbone. It is one of the better places to have internet in country. The best places to have internet in the country are the upper east coast, Texas, and California. Which, happens to be where people are. I'm not sure what the deal with Florida is because theoretically they should have had good internet like the others, but it was rare and when I did get a call from Florida they most they would have is 3Mbs. Verizon did sell FIOS West to Frontier. I'm not sure what has happened since that time.

As far as wireless broadcasts go, you have to keep in mind there is a limit that you can send out Wirelessly before people start getting fried. It isn't so much to ask that places in the middle of the country get as much attention for internet infrastructure as places where the population is higher. Also, it isn't much to ask that we keep up with other countries. We're not ready to just stream games from servers. Only half the country could have that to where it works currently.

Also, you're not correct with sending raw data over wired copper lines. That would only work if everyone was watching the exact same thing or only going to certain websites. The raw data streams of yesteryear had a limit of channels. That's why everyone had to switch to cable boxes. They ran into a limit. If the signals were HD you could only have about 25 channels on a coaxial cable. If you wanted to compete with how we transmit data now then you would catch houses on fire.

Though I have to say when I had 50ish NTSC channels I was much more satisfied with my service. I used to watch tv constantly, but now it's mostly reality garbage(not counting gameshows which are still awesome). I only watch FX, AMC, Food Network, and Syfy and it's only like twice a week. Many of the channels I used to like are shadows of what they once were. I mean fucking hell MTV. When I was a kid I used to get trippy videos like Sledgehammer now its the Teen Mom channel. Still, either way I have better things to do than watch TV and that's to watch Youtube. King of Random or the Hydraulic Press Channel is much more entertaining than The News. I'd rather watch a guy in 18th Century clothes fry chicken than watch how Burglars on Bicycles(BOBS) are robbing houses and I should be afraid of Bicyclists.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 05:21:02 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline Adrock

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But that kind of brings me to a point I hadn't even touched on: why is streaming desirable? What makes it actually significantly better for a consumer than just owning a game cartridge that maintains value, or even a local download/license? Did an average home user actually benefit from having to move to a permanent Word subscription instead of just having a discrete program they could use on their computer? Why would I want to pay $100 a year for meter-expensive streaming game access rather than buying a console, new or used, at a price point I consider appropriate, and then buying games as I wish to play them?
Streaming video games isn’t desirable to me literally at all. While I’ve accepted streaming for music and movies/TV, I fear a streaming future for gaming. The time investment for games is so much greater that I don’t want to find myself in a position in which I can’t finish a game because the publisher pulled it. That’s at least partially why I like physical copies. A lot is lost without the patches these days, but indefinitely owning something tangible holds a tremendous amount of value to me. I have a lot of GameCube, Wii, and Wii U games. I’m aware that optical media degrades over time. I don’t revisit those games often, but it’s comforting to know I can whenever I want.

Offline Ian Sane

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In theory streaming could allow for very affordable hardware or the ability to play "console" games on devices you already own like your computer or phone.  I can really see the selling point in terms of PCs where the cost difference between a low end PC for web browsing/word processing and a gaming PC is huge.  Users may also like a streaming service where they have access to every game for one monthly fee instead of having to buy each game individually, if that's the model offered.

But really I think it strongly favours the game companies and it's rather obvious why they would be pushing it.  But if they all do it it can come down effectively a threat.  "Play by our rules or you play nothing at all!"  I've got a subscription to Adobe Premiere and I HATE that business model and would never normally support it but I have a need for that software and don't really have the option to get it any other way.  It doesn't benefit me at all but the alternative of just making do without it is worse.

Nintendo could hold out which in theory could provide the alternative that would leave Sony and MS (and Google) hanging but if the streaming model is better for third parties then they'll just all leave Nintendo again and we know that Nintendo's first party stuff alone isn't enough to attract more than a niche segment of the market.