Topic: Forum Snap Poll: How Sold Are You on the Switch?

[Agent-X-]

Yeah, the price is the big problem. When I thought it could possibly be $200 (like by year's end, ie. Black Friday, etc) I was considering buying 2 of them so my wife and I could both play online together, etc. At a lower price, I was imagining being more forgiving of the underpowered hardware (only 2-3x more powerful than a Wii U), but now I'd say it had better be full blown next gen Tegra and closer to XB1 in power than to the Wii U.


My speculation is that Nintendo knows this too, hence the recent rumors of a more powerful dev unit just before the world presentation.

[BranDonk Kong]

Keep in mind that if you buy a Switch console, your Joycon batteries die, and you want to play on the TV...well, you can't, because you can only charge the Joycons using the console, unless you buy the charging Joycon Grip for an additional $30. What's the difference between them? One has a charging port. Pretty ridiculous and obvious that Nintendo is trying to nickel and dime consumers. Am I going to buy a Switch on day one? Of course. Am I going to be happy about it? Yes. Am I going to be pissed when the batteries die and I have to play using the tablet, and then its battery dies and I'm just screwed? Definitely.

There is no "more powerful dev unit" - Breath of the Wild doesn't get a 3 fps boost on a console that's 2-3x as powerful as the Wii U. It's kind of hard to draw a comparison in terms of power between the Wii U and the Switch, but 2-3x is too high - RAM aside, it's more like 1.5x. The GPU is definitely more powerful, so higher resolutions aren't incredibly difficult, but the CPU isn't that far off. Double the RAM is nice - that doesn't necessarily let you do more complex things though, just more things at once - or bigger things. But it's nowhere near the level of Xbone of PS4, even though it can definitely output 4K video, but won't.

[NWR_insanolord]

If the JoyCon battery really does last 20 hours I don't think you have to be too worried about it running out mid-session.

[Kairon]

I think I underestimated two things when considering the pricing for the Switch:

1. Nintendo really wants to make money this fiscal year. Like, they've promised investors this fiscal year will be a good year after SO many bad ones. So imagine a $50 surcharge on the system multiplied by 2 million launch systems... that's an extra $100,000,000 in revenue. Even if they drop the price immediately on April 1, that's still a LOT of money they are allowed to put on the books right before their financial deadline.

2. The Switch includes TWO controllers. Each Joy-Con is a full controller, with its own battery, wireless tech, HD Rumble, etc. That by its very nature increases the price for the system SKU.

[Stogi]

It really is the price that is pissing everyone off. Pack-in a game (literally any game) and drop the price of accessories, and this all goes away.

But really, I think we all need to take a breath (nice) and actually hold the system. Remember the Gamecube and how stupid that looked? It's still my favorite console. What about the Wii? It sold more than any other console that generation. I mean for fucks sake. We finally have a system that actually looks good and includes all the controls we want out of the box AND its portable. I really think the cost, the lack of power, Nintendo's consistent fumblings, and lack of games will seem trivial when we hold the system and realize we can play HD Nintendo games anywhere.

At least I hope so.

[Kairon]

Well, I think it's

1. Price, and
2. Third party support

With regards to third parties, I think there was some general hope that we would see, well, more sooner, bigger, and newer than what we know so far. However, my other thread on this awhile back expressed a general sense that, well, Western major third-parties were going to Wii U us once again and there was very little hope for improvement. I think we were definitely hoping from more with Japanese and 3DS developers, but I think in this area Nintendo will have to exert some real effort to get things improving to a higher level that could be considered more appealing.

[Luigi Dude]

It really is the price that is pissing everyone off. Pack-in a game (literally any game) and drop the price of accessories, and this all goes away.

But really, I think we all need to take a breath (nice) and actually hold the system. Remember the Gamecube and how stupid that looked? It's still my favorite console. What about the Wii? It sold more than any other console that generation. I mean for fucks sake. We finally have a system that actually looks good and includes all the controls we want out of the box AND its portable. I really think the cost, the lack of power, Nintendo's consistent fumblings, and lack of games will seem trivial when we hold the system and realize we can play HD Nintendo games anywhere.

At least I hope so.

People complained about the Wii's price when it was first announced as well.  It was just a modified Gamecube and IGN famously posted an article months earlier saying the hardware Nintendo was making the Wii with was so cheap that they could launch the system for $100.  So when low and behold, they announced the Wii was going to be $250, there was quite a few people saying the Wii was going to be DOA because it's price was way too high.  I still remember, some of the same suspects who are saying Nintendo can't demand such a price because the Wii U was a failure said the same thing about the Wii since the Gamecube was considered a failure back then as well.

Same thing with the nickle and dime complains about the Wiimote, especially when it was revealed the Wiimote and Nunchuck were both sold separately.  The same suspects were once again saying "No way are families going to spend that kind of money to buy more Wiimotes and Nunchucks".

Now I do think the price might make the system a hard sell for some, but I think it's too early to tell.  The most important job for Nintendo is going to be marketing and how they get the message out to the general public who isn't watching every trailer on Youtube or reading about the hardware specs.  If they can get another "Wii would like to play" campaign going on that really makes the system look special and shove Zelda in everyone's face for the next month straight, this thing could be huge.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think I underestimated two things when considering the pricing for the Switch:

2. The Switch includes TWO controllers. Each Joy-Con is a full controller, with its own battery, wireless tech, HD Rumble, etc. That by its very nature increases the price for the system SKU.

I believe it only includes ONE full controller. that 1 controller just happens to split into 2 halves that can function as 2 mini controller for games designed to work with them.

If I bought the console and wanted to play 2 player ARMS where me and friend want to box each other, I don't need to buy a "second" controller? Of course I do.
well, I don't if we decide that we don't want to use motion... maybe. not sure if it's a dual analog game or not, but to play it the way we wanted to play it... the way it was advertised REQUIRES the purchase of a 2nd FULL Controller. Well, atleast a 2nd left and right Joycon (grip is optional).

Same thing with the nickle and dime complains about the Wiimote, especially when it was revealed the Wiimote and Nunchuck were both sold separately.  The same suspects were once again saying "No way are families going to spend that kind of money to buy more Wiimotes and Nunchucks".

I personally don't have a problem with the cost of the system. A portable Wii U++/PS4extralite is worth $300, especially with all the tech involved.

but relating the $40 Wiimotes + the (overpriced) $20 nunchucks as a $60 combo vs the 2xJoycons for $80 + the (overpriced) $30 grip as a $110 combo is quite the sticker shock. Parity for the 2nd player comes at too steep a price...

[Kairon]

I think I underestimated two things when considering the pricing for the Switch:

2. The Switch includes TWO controllers. Each Joy-Con is a full controller, with its own battery, wireless tech, HD Rumble, etc. That by its very nature increases the price for the system SKU.

I believe it only includes ONE full controller. that 1 controller just happens to split into 2 halves that can function as 2 mini controller for games designed to work with them.

If I bought the console and wanted to play 2 player ARMS where me and friend want to box each other, I don't need to buy a "second" controller? Of course I do.
well, I don't if we decide that we don't want to use motion... maybe. not sure if it's a dual analog game or not, but to play it the way we wanted to play it... the way it was advertised REQUIRES the purchase of a 2nd FULL Controller. Well, atleast a 2nd left and right Joycon (grip is optional).

I think of it in a completely different way. Each Joy-Con is it's own complete controller if you look at its hardware: internal battery, wireless connection, motion control, rumble HD, buttons, shoulder buttons, and analog stick... heck, that's MORE than what the Wii Remote ever had! If that's half a controller, then good grief no wonder a "full controller" costs as much as two Wii Remote Plus'!

But here's how I tackle the dilemma that ARMS and games like it pose: the Switch is the first time Nintendo is encouraging and creating games that MANDATE the use of TWO CONTROLLERS to play.

As a comparison, you could play We Cheer with TWO Wii Remotes, one in each hand, but you could always just opt to use one. No such thing with a game like ARMS, it's two controllers or bust. They just happen to give you two controllers out of the box.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well, Wii Sports boxing required both players to have a wiimote & nunchuck, and that game was packed in w/ the system.

$60 v $80min isn't that bad as a straight up comparison, but for 2nd player parity in another game... like a CoD split screen will require that grip... or a procon

the point being that an extra controller just cost too much.
Maybe they should do like like they did with WiiSports Resort and bundle the 2 extra joycons along w/ ARMS as a free (or +$10) pack-in.

That would entice people to not only pick-up a 2nd controller but also give ARMS a chance.

[MagicCow64]

People complained about the Wii's price when it was first announced as well.  It was just a modified Gamecube and IGN famously posted an article months earlier saying the hardware Nintendo was making the Wii with was so cheap that they could launch the system for $100.  So when low and behold, they announced the Wii was going to be $250, there was quite a few people saying the Wii was going to be DOA because it's price was way too high.  I still remember, some of the same suspects who are saying Nintendo can't demand such a price because the Wii U was a failure said the same thing about the Wii since the Gamecube was considered a failure back then as well.

Hmm, this is a pretty good point. According to the inflation calculator, the $250 Wii would be ~$290 today, not far off the Switch. $300 WiiU basic would be about ~$320 today. But of course the $250 3DS would be ~$270 today, and we know how that went . . .

[Adrock]

People complained about the Wii's price when it was first announced as well.  It was just a modified Gamecube and IGN famously posted an article months earlier saying the hardware Nintendo was making the Wii with was so cheap that they could launch the system for $100.  So when low and behold, they announced the Wii was going to be $250, there was quite a few people saying the Wii was going to be DOA because it's price was way too high.  I still remember, some of the same suspects who are saying Nintendo can't demand such a price because the Wii U was a failure said the same thing about the Wii since the Gamecube was considered a failure back then as well.

Same thing with the nickle and dime complains about the Wiimote, especially when it was revealed the Wiimote and Nunchuck were both sold separately.  The same suspects were once again saying "No way are families going to spend that kind of money to buy more Wiimotes and Nunchucks".

People complained about Wii's price without knowing Wii Sports would be a cultural phenomenon, and understandably so since that's quite difficult to predict. People rushing E3 isn't necessarily indicative of how the general public will react. Does anyone expect 1-2 Switch to carry the same weight as Wii Sports? I don't, but maybe I'm wrong. To me, 1-2 Switch doesn't look like something I've never seen before. And not only is 1-2 Switch not-Wii Sports, it isn't even included with the console.

While I think $299.99 is okay and I would personally pay it, I think the criticisms levied against it are fair. People bought Wii Remotes because it was new and no one had ever seen anything like Wii Sports before. The Joy-Con is a Wii Remote with some extras. That means, not only is the Joy-Con no where near as groundbreaking as the Wii Remote, it's largely based on decade old tech. I don't mean that to sound derogatory. It's really great that a single Joy-Con is almost a Super Nintendo controller. Nintendo still isn't reaching back to the Blue Ocean with it. They've seen it before. They want the next Wii Remote, not the Wii Remote again. That said, nickel and diming consumers with Wii Remotes and Nunchuks when no one had ever imagined it or knew how much that tech cost isn't the same thing as what Nintendo is doing with Switch accessories. We've seen it before and know how much most of that costs now, and it isn't $49.99 and $69.99. I don't think to comparison to Wii works here.

[Kairon]

This isn't happening in a vacuum, controller prices have been rising all over. XBox One and PS4 controllers go for $50 with older tech. I'm not arguing that the Joy-con is positioned to set the world on fire, I'm just saying that I consider Joy-con pricing within expectation.

Is there profit motive at play? Certainly! I remember the days when controllers cost $30. Part of it could be inflation or new tech, but I think everyone knows that there's big money to be made in accessories.

However, while I think Joycon pricing isn't unexpected, it's the OTHER accessories that are insane. The Dock is obviously ridiculous. And let's not forget, Nintendo is now CHARGING for wriststraps that they gave awaybfor free on the Wii!

[Soren]

The equivalent of XB1 and PS4 controllers on Nintendo goes for $70 though.

[lolmonade]

I switched my vote, I was going to hold out, but think I've been convinced enough to jump in day one with a copy of Zelda and 3D Mario on the way.  I have a few Wii U games in backlog to tide me over between those two games if there's a bad drought.

[Luigi Dude]

While I think $299.99 is okay and I would personally pay it, I think the criticisms levied against it are fair. People bought Wii Remotes because it was new and no one had ever seen anything like Wii Sports before. The Joy-Con is a Wii Remote with some extras. That means, not only is the Joy-Con no where near as groundbreaking as the Wii Remote, it's largely based on decade old tech. I don't mean that to sound derogatory. It's really great that a single Joy-Con is almost a Super Nintendo controller. Nintendo still isn't reaching back to the Blue Ocean with it. They've seen it before. They want the next Wii Remote, not the Wii Remote again. That said, nickel and diming consumers with Wii Remotes and Nunchuks when no one had ever imagined it or knew how much that tech cost isn't the same thing as what Nintendo is doing with Switch accessories. We've seen it before and know how much most of that costs now, and it isn't $49.99 and $69.99. I don't think to comparison to Wii works here.

But once again the thing is the general public doesn't know how much this tech cost for Nintendo to product.  To them the only comparison is a Wiimote plus Nunchuck was $60, while another Joycon is $80.  The average consumer isn't looking up to see how much Nintendo is overpricing the thing, it's just a $20 different to them.  Plus the big multiplayer game at launch, 1-2 Switch and even the month after Mario Kart 8 can both allow multiplayer with both pieces of the Joycon that comes with the system so it's not like people will feel they have to go out right away to buy another Joycon like they had to with Wii Sports.

I do agree that not bundling 1-2 Switch is kind of stupid for Nintendo since I don't see a lot of people willing to pay $50 for it.  Of course if they can get it on the right talk show and have people like Jimmy Fallon and Ellen have a lot of fun with it then who know, maybe it could catch on.  I imagine in Nintendo's mind they feel because of how big Wii Sports became they probably could have sold that thing separately and gotten similar sales from all the hype it ended up getting.  I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo advertises 1-2 Switch just as heavily as Zelda because of this in hopes it becomes another Wii Sports phenomenon and they can get more profit this time.

Either way the Joycon prices aren't going to really effect them until ARMS comes out since they game requires players to send another $80 for that second Joycon.  Of course I wonder if Nintendo might pull a Wiiplay with it and release a bundle that has the game and Joycon together so it creates a really good value to many consumers since they're getting a second controller and game together for a pretty similar price.  Nice way to fill any gaps in the Switch post launch lineup while giving a lot of households a second controllers so they'll be ready for Splatoon 2 with local multiplayer only a few months later.

[nickmitch]

I think I underestimated two things when considering the pricing for the Switch:

1. Nintendo really wants to make money this fiscal year. Like, they've promised investors this fiscal year will be a good year after SO many bad ones. So imagine a $50 surcharge on the system multiplied by 2 million launch systems... that's an extra $100,000,000 in revenue. Even if they drop the price immediately on April 1, that's still a LOT of money they are allowed to put on the books right before their financial deadline.

This is an interesting strategy: price gouge the early adopters and then drop the price maybe around the holiday?  I just wonder what the perception will be if they drop the prices too hard.  Naturally, if you do it around the holidays under the guise of a sale price, it looks fine, but that's assuming whatever hype Nintendo has left lasts that long.

I'm still down for my Day 1 purchase (got 2 pre-orders).  But I'll definitely be playing wait-and-see with getting a pro-controller or a second set of JoyCon.

[Evan_B]

Another Joy-Con is not 80 dollars. Please stop with this nonsense. Yes, you can argue the Wii Remote and Nunchuck was 60 but that was not two Wii Remotes.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Another Joy-Con is not 80 dollars. Please stop with this nonsense. Yes, you can argue the Wii Remote and Nunchuck was 60 but that was not two Wii Remotes.

how is it nonsense if a complete second controller is a pair of left & rt joycons, which together cost $80? and that's not counting the grip to hold them in single controller config, which will run you another $30 on top of that.

Technically another Joycon (singular) cost $50, but even that sounds high for something that is so small. General populace isn't gonna care what tech is in it if Nintendo can't sell it as a necessity.

[Adrock]

But once again the thing is the general public doesn't know how much this tech cost for Nintendo to product.  To them the only comparison is a Wiimote plus Nunchuck was $60, while another Joycon is $80.  The average consumer isn't looking up to see how much Nintendo is overpricing the thing, it's just a $20 different to them.

People don't need to know how much tech costs to consider it overpriced. It just particularly sucks for the people who do know. That said, in response to "some of the same suspects who are saying Nintendo can't demand such a price because the Wii U was a failure," I think their criticisms on the price of the Switch console and peripherals are fair.

Separately, you keep bringing up the Wii Remote and Nunchuk, but the comparison doesn't work. People didn't just pay $60 for a controller; they paid $60 for a controller that was different and new. Nintendo sold Wii on the back of motion controls. It can't do that in 2017. There's nothing about the Joy-Con that makes it as easy to justify as the Wii Remote in 2006. Also, you're weirdly cavalier about "just a $20 difference." I can't speak for anyone else, but $20 is a big enough difference for me in most circumstances. There are games I'd buy at $20 that I'd never consider buying at $40, let alone $60. An $80 controller is bananas, and it isn't even $80 with the hidden cost of the Joy-Con grip.

[nickmitch]

I think the JoyCon grip is included, since it's pictured on the box.

But for $80, Microsoft will let you customize an XB1 controller.

[Luigi Dude]

Separately, you keep bringing up the Wii Remote and Nunchuk, but the comparison doesn't work. People didn't just pay $60 for a controller; they paid $60 for a controller that was different and new. Nintendo sold Wii on the back of motion controls. It can't do that in 2017. There's nothing about the Joy-Con that makes it as easy to justify as the Wii Remote in 2006. Also, you're weirdly cavalier about "just a $20 difference." I can't speak for anyone else, but $20 is a big enough difference for me in most circumstances. There are games I'd buy at $20 that I'd never consider buying at $40, let alone $60. An $80 controller is bananas, and it isn't even $80 with the hidden cost of the Joy-Con grip.

Once again, your looking at this from the tech standpoint of someone who's actually educated in what this hardware can do and cost which the average consumer isn't going to look up.  It wasn't the fact the motion controls where new that sold it, it was the fact Wii Sports was a great game to show it off.  If the technology was selling because it's new then Playstation VR should be lighting up the charts right now, but it's not because there's no killer app for it.

Seriously, that's my whole point.  If Nintendo can get the right software that convinces people they need a second full set of Joycons, I don't see the price being as big a deal.  Which is what people thought the full $60 for the Wiimote + Nunchuck back in the day was too much until Wii Sports proved them wrong.  Of course that will be up to Nintendo to make happen and ARMS will be their first true test.  Will that be the game that sells it, I don't know.  But with other major multiplayer games like 1-2 Switch and Mario Kart being playable with each Joycon that comes out of the box, even if ARMS fails to sell I don't think that will really harm the Switch momentum since not every game is forcing people to spend an extra $80 for multiplayer. 

[Clonester11]

Part of the pricing problem is that in some areas, the Switch is the most expensive console. From what I understand, all three consoles are $299 in the US, with the Xbox One+ PS4 having a game included at that price. $250 for the Switch would have been more competitive, but $299 is not unreasonable.

In Canada, the Xbox one S is $70 cheaper with a game packed in. The PS4, the most popular console, is $30 cheaper with one or two games packed in. The Switch is $399 just for the console, making it the most expensive of the three.

At the end of the day, Nintendo would rather nickel + dime (higher first year profit margins), while gambling on the Switch either booming or busting, than be competitive out of the gate (lower first year profit margins) and have a better chance of long term success.

[nickmitch]

Don't forget that both consoles are $299 with a 500GB hard drive as well as a game.  Switch's 32GB and no game look bad at that price.  But the novelty of the system I think makes the price fair.  It's really the accessories where they're pooping the bed.

[Clonester11]

Don't forget that both consoles are $299 with a 500GB hard drive as well as a game.  Switch's 32GB and no game look bad at that price.  But the novelty of the system I think makes the price fair.  It's really the accessories where they're pooping the bed.

Very true with the storage. Another added cost reducing value. I still love the concept and hope it does well long term

Regarding the accessories, it's true that PS4 and Xbox One controllers are expensive, but a lot of gamers just play alone or online. Nintendo has always made themselves attractive for local multiplayer, which I love about them. But when the controllers are expensive, it makes multiplayer much less attractive, and it detracts a bit from fun multiplayer games like Mario Kart, Splatoon, and ARMS. Whereas a better price point and affordable controllers increases the value of these games.