Author Topic: Game Journalism  (Read 127468 times)

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Offline Stratos

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #125 on: February 02, 2010, 04:56:27 AM »
"Pap64 gave the game a score of 6.5"  LOL that's a D bud right on the line of F.  Yeah it sounds like he tried to get his groove on but really there's better choices out there DDR anyone?



Note the DDR games have done quite well on Wii so far in spite of charging $70 for it and a pad which is higher than the PS2 games with pads were.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #126 on: February 02, 2010, 05:20:01 AM »
Quote
They still made a profit but it's not as high as Big N expects.  Iwata made a few comments at 2009 gdc.  Basically he wasn't happy with sales of Music or Animal Forest and both of these games outsold MP3.

Does not translate into "we are sorely disappointed with Retro bringing in X profit."  This is an inference with no data, just supposition.

Quote
Fzero GX hit the barginbin which counts at total sales but if you look at NPD numbers back then you'll see less than 100K sold during the first two months the rest came after RETAILERS reduced the price.  ED was in the same boat back then.  Both were considered flops even though the reviews were high.  Also why you haven't heard about an upcoming Fzero game--poor sales = discontinued.

You don't have much evidence for Retailers dropping the price other than your own anecdote.  So far it seem like the game slow burnt its way to success and then got a price drop that pushed the title far beyond 100k.

Quote
But I think we got astray from the main topic a bit.

Hey you started it.  We were taking about whether is intellectually consistent for third parties to claim that "Nintendo games overshadow our efforts." And "Core games don't sell on Wii" when the actual games they've made are a 5:1 ratio of Junk to merely decent.  Also whether or not their rampant shovelware has hurt their own reputations, and whether or not they are justified AT ALL to blame Nintendo or to accuse these amorphous children/casual gamers/Nintendo fans for not buying their cheap junk or misguided spinoffry.  Then all of a sudden we're talking about F-Zero GX and Carnival Games Golf being a success at 1 millin and Metroid Prime 3 being a failure at 1.5 million and whether Iwata's going to fire them into the moon because the game sold less than Killzone 2 (no word on whether Sony is disappointed about that game's sales.  took longer and cost way more money.  Eh,  one way street of criticism I guess).

Quote
Back to topic --Just Dance fails on alot of levels because the CORE game is broken (the controls).  Why pay money for something that doesn't work like it's supposed to?  Why do I even need it in the first place?  I can dance just fine without it and still look like a tool in front of my friends?  So what the catch?  I can get training videos and better music for much less.

That's not the topic.  The topic is the third party wall of shame and whether third parties are justified in complaining about low sales when they make really crappy games and mind-boggling spinoff choices in the face of consumer demand, or whether their own sullied reputations are a factor when they try to make something different from the casual games (which appear to not be selling.)

Does anybody think this strategy of flooding the market with garbage was a good idea?  Even though the market and the numbers didn't bear them out?  Does anybody dispute that the third parties deserve their lower sales through bad games, bad reputations, bad marketing, or all three?
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #127 on: February 02, 2010, 06:14:04 AM »
I think I just found a number of targets to bludgeon to death with my Wii Play copy. It's a great game you fools! Sure, it is no Mario Galaxy, it's a minigame collection and nothing else but there are enough good minigames in this collection to be fully worth the money. Maybe it's the controller that makes it stand out but as a game it has its own merits and I would recommend it to anyone who doesn't own it yet.

Just Dance is their Number 1 game and it's freaking awful yet it'll continue to sell.

Really? I've seen many user reviews that state that once you adjust to the detection method it's a good game and they like it. Those are the reviews you really have to look for: Are the people who bought the game satisfied with it? I've seen cases where professional reviews and user reviews were massively dissonant because the pro reviewers think a lot about aspects the buyers don't give a **** about. Think MaBoShi's high scores, the game was extremely polished and everything but most people hated the gameplay itself.

Offline D_Average

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #128 on: February 02, 2010, 12:19:16 PM »
Come on guys. Do you really have to play every game to know it's crap?  No. This is an impossible standard no one in this thread could keep.  Do you watch every tv show or movie before making some sort of opinion?  Do you eat at every restaurant?  Listen to every album?  Date every girl and/or guy? Try out every religion?  Etc.....
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #129 on: February 02, 2010, 12:33:58 PM »
You can assume that something is bad but you'll have to live with that being an assumption, not a fact and it may end up being wrong.

Offline Deguello

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #130 on: February 02, 2010, 12:39:10 PM »
It is nice to know that now Wii owners and Nintendo no longer have to shoulder the blame for when a game flops.  It just must have been so unappealing on the surface or from a third party with such a bad reputation that they just knew it was a bad game or a con job at the outset.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #131 on: February 02, 2010, 01:25:47 PM »
"Pap64 gave the game a score of 6.5"  LOL that's a D bud right on the line of F.  Yeah it sounds like he tried to get his groove on but really there's better choices out there DDR anyone?

Actually a 6.5 out of 10 is actually above average but nothing special. This isn't a term paper going by grades of 50% equals F.

But I have a totally unrelated question.
Can you or someone define a "Tool" to me?
Ymee just used it up above, MTV has a show focused on it and I've even used the term in the past. But my girl tried to define it to me but I don't think her description is accurate. I just wanna see how all of you might define the term.

Offline Kairon

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #132 on: February 02, 2010, 05:06:29 PM »
You can assume that something is bad but you'll have to live with that being an assumption, not a fact and it may end up being wrong.

This.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #133 on: February 02, 2010, 06:38:29 PM »
"Pap64 gave the game a score of 6.5"  LOL that's a D bud right on the line of F.  Yeah it sounds like he tried to get his groove on but really there's better choices out there DDR anyone?
That's your opinion. The average consumer isn't so fastidious, and is a lot more open-minded.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #134 on: February 02, 2010, 09:50:52 PM »
lol Academy Champions Soccer, i know a programmer who worked on that game. Ubisoft used to make less(and better games) what happened?
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #135 on: February 03, 2010, 06:33:03 PM »
"The average consumer isn't so fastidious, and is a lot more open-minded."

And that's the problem with the WII isn't it?  Sure if you never played an game then what are you comparing it to?  Yeah, it's does have the advantage over DDR in terms of pricing but really what does it do that watching MTV doesn't?  I can dance for FREE--hell I'll even send you a video if you like :)

As for pricedrops, yeah I can tell you because I bought my COPY of FZERO GX two months after release for $17.95 just like I can tell you can buy Deadspace Ext or even Punchout for $20 too.  Hell Sams had Punchout at $9.  I'm all CAG baby, haven't paid full retail price for years. 

Offline noname2200

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #136 on: February 03, 2010, 07:04:28 PM »
Yeah, it's does have the advantage over DDR in terms of pricing but really what does it do that watching MTV doesn't?

Play music.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #137 on: February 03, 2010, 08:16:46 PM »
Yeah, it's does have the advantage over DDR in terms of pricing but really what does it do that watching MTV doesn't?

Play music.

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #138 on: February 03, 2010, 10:45:25 PM »
"The average consumer isn't so fastidious, and is a lot more open-minded."

And that's the problem with the WII isn't it?
I don't understand how having a userbase of people who are open-minded and willing to try new things is a problem. It means developers don't have to create a game in a tired genre like a shooter in order for a game to have a chance of selling. No, the problem is the third-party companies who decided to take advantage of these consumers by releasing a flood of poor-quality titles. Their short-sightedness is now starting to blow up in their face.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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« Reply #139 on: February 04, 2010, 03:13:51 AM »
Opening post has been updated with...
>> http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30478.msg581036#msg581036

~ Electronic Arts ~

After looking at so much box art, so much SHAME, I'm beginning to see a uh, uhh... a PATTERN creeping throughout these 3rd Party libraries.

Some select quotes:

=====
[EA]  We polled Core Gamers about Dead Space Extraction...
[Core Gamers]  Don't make a Rail shooter.  We hate rail shooters.  Make a rail shooter and die.
[EA]  And we've found they've said the words "rail shooter" 1,239 times!

=====
[EA]  We understand the Wii audience and we know what Wii gamers want!  This is why we've been able to create such a diverse line-up*!  This line-up is targetted specifically to the Wii audience and the Wii audience that isn't exactly part of the Wii audience!
(*see Wall)

Is there anything more that needs to be said?



Coming Soon...

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Offline Deguello

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #140 on: February 04, 2010, 03:29:02 AM »
EA's got a few good games there.  But there's also enough crap like Charm Girls Whatever and Littlest Pet Shop to make people wonder if EA has their head on straight. and Overuse of the word "Party"  (Seriously, does this work?  Do they think the word "Party" is why people buy "Mario Party?")

Since EA is all about Branding, does anybody think this lineup of games has helped EA's brand?

Myself, I'm baffled is to why they downplayed Boom Blox's name on the Sequel, shuffling it to the left, and giving the name "Bash Party" more prominence.  There's also the happy fluffy all-play sports crap that hurt sales.

I remember EA Making a big deal about Charm girls Club at last year's E3.  Considering it's a way bigger flop than Dead Space Extraction, can they reach the conclusion that Wii gamers don't like casual shovelware, please?  Because there's way more evidence for that here.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #141 on: February 04, 2010, 04:34:32 AM »
69 games...and 7 I am interested in or own. I have 4 of them: Boom Blox 1 & 2, Godfather and Rock Band 2.

The NASCAR game is full of fail on so many levels. My Dad is a big NASCAR fan and owns a Wii. He was telling me how he wanted a NASCAR game with Wii Wheel controls and when I mentioned this as the only thing on the horizon he lost total interest and even seemed offended that people would try to combine Mario Kart (which he loves as well) with NASCAR. Other Wii owners I know who like NASCAR were also appalled by that NASCAR Kart racer game. People who like NASCAR want it to play like NASCAR and items play no part in the sport. One person I know who is a very casual Wii person (first console and all) said something along the lines of 'do they think NASCAR fans like me are dumb? If I want that I'll play Mario Kart. I want NASCAR to play like I'm really racing NASCAR.'
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 05:24:57 AM by Stratos »
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #142 on: February 04, 2010, 04:48:14 AM »
I have that Trivial Pursuit game.  It's virtually no good.  Picture a party game, where everyone watches the screen to know what's going on.  Now picture a text-based solo title, where one person watches the screen.  What's the difference?

It's not entirely obvious, but with the party game, text needs to be big enough that everyone playing can read it on a moderately sized television.  There's not enough space to scoot in.

Also, there wasn't enough customization.  There was a built-in timer, and it couldn't be turned off or lengthened.  Add in that we saw several repeat questions in just a few rounds, and you've got several problems for a console port of a trivia game with a legacy that spans generations.

Offline Kairon

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #143 on: February 04, 2010, 04:55:34 AM »
I've also been waiting this ENTIRE generation for a Nascar game. I've never bought one before, but I'm ready for one.

... instead I'll have to settle for an F1 game since Nascar games don't exist for the Wii.
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #144 on: February 04, 2010, 05:11:29 AM »
I own more EA games for Wii than I ever have for any other console.

TW10
DSE
Smarty pants
EA Sports Active
and the More Workouts Expansion pack

Soon I' likely to have NBA Jam too and TW11 depending on what they do with it.


As far as who's next. Who is Zoo Games? what games have they made that I might know of?

please let THQ be next after Zoo.
I bet they are the most shameful this gen.

Offline Stratos

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #145 on: February 04, 2010, 05:31:57 AM »
So maybe me watching numbers and sales and labor percents at work has warped me, but I came up with a percentage of titles that caught my attention and how many times they successfully got me to purchase their products.

          Interest / Actual Sales / Total Titles Published
Ubisoft - 10.6%, 4.5%, 66
Activision - 7.8%, 3.9%, 77
EA - 10.1%, 5.8%, 69
Nintendo - 84.8%, 30.3%, 33*

My collection - 37 games total
Nintendo - 21.6%
EA - 10.8%
Activision - 8.1%
Ubisoft - 8.1%

*Published in NA

Notice the trend here: 66 & 77 & 69 VS. only 33. The 'Big Shameful Three' on The Wall have twice as many titles out as Nintendo does or more. Not only is this pointing out the obvious of 'quality over quantity' but they are cannibalizing their own potential sales by flooding the market with too many games of similar material. Mini/party game a huge culprit; how many of those do you really want to own, anyway, especially when a collection of them come with most people's second remote in WiiPlay?).
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #146 on: February 04, 2010, 07:30:02 AM »
The problem with EA Active, More Workouts was the game was released like 5 months after the original.  Which is why it isn't pulling the Wii Fit Plus numbers EA expects.
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Offline Urkel

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #147 on: February 04, 2010, 05:24:14 PM »
Don't forget that the Nascar Kart racer doesn't have an online mode while MKWii does.
 
EA is lazy and you DO care.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: The 3rd Party Wall of Shame
« Reply #148 on: February 04, 2010, 07:00:37 PM »
The only EA game I own is Boom Blox Bash Party. I bought the first Boom Blox when it was released, but quickly sold it off. There are a few which I'm curious about though, which are Dead Space Extraction, The Godfather, The Simpson Game, Need For Speed Nitro, and maybe the Nerf game. Dunno why.

The NASCAR game is full of fail on so many levels. My Dad is a big NASCAR fan and owns a Wii. He was telling me how he wanted a NASCAR game with Wii Wheel controls and when I mentioned this as the only thing on the horizon he lost total interest and even seemed offended that people would try to combine Mario Kart (which he loves as well) with NASCAR.
It's funny you say that, because I have a friend who is a huge fan of NASCAR, and she loves that game. Have NASCAR games ever been successful anyway? They're so boring, all you do is drive in a complete circle and hope for a spectacular wreck to happen just to make things not mind-numbingly boring.

Nintendo - 84.8%, 30.3%, 33*
Nintendo published just 33 games? I thought they've released a bit more than that. Regardless, for me there are two games they've published that were pretty big disappointments, but that's still a great track record, especially compared to third-parties. There's only one game they've published which I have absolutely no interest in, which is Pokémon Battle Revolution; everything else I plan to get when the price is right.

Myself, I'm baffled is to why they downplayed Boom Blox's name on the Sequel, shuffling it to the left, and giving the name "Bash Party" more prominence.
I'll never understand that, either. When my sister saw the game sitting on my table, she thought it was titled simply "Bash Party" and assumed it was just a generic minigame collection, until I pointed out it was Boom Blox. I doubt she is the only one who glanced at the case without realizing what it was.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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~ Zoo Games ~
« Reply #149 on: February 05, 2010, 12:20:26 AM »
Opening post has been updated with...
>> http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30478.msg581036#msg581036

~ Zoo Games ~

^This^ is what Zoo Games does.  They can't help it, that's their nature.  But all the other publishers on the Wall know better, are better, and can be better.  Why do third party libraries look more like ^this^?  Don't they WANT to make good games?  Laziness is bad (so I hear).

That's all for the Wall for tonight.  Pro Daisy has a headache.



Coming Soon...

~ THQ ~
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PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.