Author Topic: Nintendo, the dare devil?  (Read 8811 times)

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Offline Sith

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« on: February 01, 2003, 05:54:03 PM »
As you have seen in the past and the present that Nintendo is the only company to take the big risks in game production.

A prime example is Zelda: The Wind Waker, where they established a new graphics scheme, and many have followed suit. Another would have to be the onslaught of incredible games, inlcuding Pikmin.

Nintendo sets the standards to new innovations in the gaming industry, IMHO.

Offline BlkPaladin

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2003, 06:52:44 PM »
Let's hope they can back that up at E3. Maybe they will let us in on what they did with the Rare money. Its kind of hard to see them as a risk taker right now but then again they have been holding their cards close to themselves since Yamauchi retired.
Stupidity is lost on my. Then again I'm almost always lost.

Offline ThePerm

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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2003, 06:56:00 PM »
you werent going to see Mr Iwata-san do much in his first few months. He hasnt even began. This is a man who was under the wing of Yamauchi. He is younger but he has been taught many things. He could really turn the company back into theraging tiger it once was.
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Offline BlkPaladin

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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2003, 07:00:36 PM »
I know thats why it crucial that people wait until E3 before deciding that Nintendo has been doing nothing these last few months. (I don't know how you can with all the announcments, but there are people out there.
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2003, 08:41:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Sith

A prime example is Zelda: The Wind Waker, where they established a new graphics scheme, and many have followed suit.


*Ahem*

*Points to Jet Set Radio's graphics engine* =P


Offline Matt

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2003, 08:46:48 PM »
I think Nintendo is too conservative.
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Offline dogcow

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2003, 08:50:37 PM »
Nintendo is Conservative on Business decisions.

But they are pretty daring on making games.

Offline DarkDraco2K2

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2003, 10:34:13 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ThePerm
you werent going to see Mr Iwata-san do much in his first few months. He hasnt even began. This is a man who was under the wing of Yamauchi. He is younger but he has been taught many things. He could really turn the company back into theraging tiger it once was.


We can only hope... I really hope that they can get back up into at least second place (if they aren't right now.. I'm not exactly sure). They have major potential, but if they're not aggressive, They're never going to get back up to where they once were. Not that it really matters to me, personally, as long as I still get to play the games, but they need to take more action. Get better advertisers. Appeal to the "mature" crowd a bit more (no, I don't necessarily mean games like GTA or others with mindless violence or whatever, but more stuff along the lines of Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness). Decide on an online plan. Nintendo needs to change quite a bit if they expect to reach out to more people and sell more consoles.

Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2003, 06:17:23 AM »
Um, JSR wasnt a contiuation of a beloved franchise--people were like, ok so it looks funny but its not screwing around wityh anything I know and love. Nintendo will make Windwaker great, I have no doubts but its waaay more daredevlish to change Zelda than make a new franchise that looks like that.
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Offline aoi tsuki

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2003, 01:32:46 PM »
Quote

...its waaay more daredevlish to change Zelda than make a new franchise that looks like that.


Or is it more "daredevilish" to make a game that combines rollerblading with tagging and running from the cops using a fresh graphics style while jammin to a soundtrack that ranges from old school house to indie Japanese rock "mixed" by a DJ with a K on his head?

Until someone invents the daredevilometer, the world will never know.
"Snake felt a hunger for Meryl blossom within his loins."

Offline Sean

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2003, 07:49:47 AM »
I think we should create a DareDevilMeter (TM), actually, and use it to guage the quality of Ben Affleck's new movie, which, if you didn't know (ahem) is called Daredevil.  My estimate on intial readings is as follows:

Good ideas here and there (like showing how young Matt experiences his newly acquired powers through handicap--I found this well done), a couple decent fight sequences (almost no really good action sequences--in fact, almost no action sequences period), some incredibly bad dialogue, too predictable, and overall lacking in energy and fun.  Oh, and Ben Affleck isn't Daredevil.  

With that out of the way, I think it's safe to say that Nintendo is indeed conservative--everyone knows this.  And it is their restraint and conservation that directs their decision-making and allows their games to have that beautiful subtlety, which sets them apart from most, if not all.  Showing restraint in the current gaming age is about as daring as you can get.
"I think that if the devil does not exist,
and man has therefore created him,
he has created him in his own image and likeness."
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Offline Uglydot

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2003, 08:22:40 AM »
Who the hell cares?   My other friends were pretending to fight, my friend and I went all out and started boxing, I have a broken thumb, he is a bit bruised.  We were "more daredevilish"  but it doesn't matter.  JSR(DC) sold like crap.  Who cares if they were daredevilish.

Offline Hemmorrhoid

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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2003, 08:25:48 AM »
Daredevil or not, they make the best games. Period.

I wouldnt necessarilly call it dardevilish, but rather revolutionary milestone work that gets copied but never to the same quality, ie target system from Zelda.
LZ 2005

Offline Agent

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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2003, 08:36:45 AM »
Quote

As you have seen in the past and the present that Nintendo is the only company to take the big risks in game production.

A prime example is Zelda: The Wind Waker


I know the point of your topic, was to make a feel-good nintendo post, but yes that really is a bad example.

I don't think it was genre-defining, or original to realease a sequel. Sequel's are safe bets that can get you cash, as well as please fans. . Are you referring to them putting the cel-shaded in it. Cel-shaded games have been done, so thats not really original either.

BTW, to the other guy, JSRF WAS a sequel. And loved by fans of the dreamcast who had the original. Just becuase the original wasn't realeased on a nintendo console, or wasn't loved by AS many, doesn't mean it wasn't a good series.

Offline theaveng

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2003, 10:39:33 AM »
Mr. Mosquito (for Playstation) is an example of doing something daring.  To me knowledge, no video game has ever simulated life as a mosquito.  Okay, that might not be your cup of tea, but you have to admit it is VERY inventive and definitely fresh and new.

As for Zelda, it's the same old game with elements *borrowed* from other games like Final Fantasy and Jet Set Radio.  Sure if you want to believe Nintendo's propaganda that "cel-shading is new and never-done-before" that's your choice, but a quick look at a game catalog shows cel-shading is nothing new.

Offline WesDawg

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2003, 12:47:41 PM »
To call Nintendo innovative might be a stretch, but they certainly take a lot of risks. Launching without Mario was a risk. Pikmin was a risk. Animal Crossing was a risk. Either they're risky or they're just really stupid sometimes.  I've never heard of Mr. Mosquito. I would list other games I've heard of that sounded real innovative, but I have a feeling this would turn into a poll and get shut down then. How we're ever supposed to discuss anything is beyond me.

Offline The Omen

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2003, 01:38:55 PM »
Since when has Zelda taken anything from Final Fantasy?  OOT was possibly the best game ever made, and had little to nothing to do with the FF games.  Also, LOZ- 1987  when was the first FF-89-90?[in jap]

As far as taking risks, they have taken some big ones since releasing the GC.  First off , LOZ:WW is a huge risk.  Nintendo was assured of incredible sales if it stayed as close to the series as possible.  To completely change the look of one of the best games EVER is daring.  AC and METROID PRIME  are other examples.  Metroid-people were clamoring for a metroid game for about 10 years. And then they change it to first person, which everyone hated!  But they did, that is daring.  To me, changing a game that will sell if you just threw out the same old formula is taking a risk.  A daring move.
"If a man comes to the door of poetry untouched by the madness of the muses, believing that technique alone will make him a great poet, he and his sane compositions never reach perfection, but are utterly eclipsed by the inspired madman." Socrates

Offline theaveng

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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2003, 04:29:15 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: The Omen
Since when has Zelda taken anything from Final Fantasy?  OOT...
I was talking about the Wind Waker.  According to reviews, the new game is much, much more dependent upon story with myriad cutscenes.  Like an RPG.  Like FF10.  That's what I was referring to.

re: Cel-shading, yeah it's a risk.  But that wasn't my point.  I was objecting to this statement: "Nintendo is only company to take big risks".  The *only* company?  NO.  Several of companies have done cel-shading already.  No offense to Sith, but his statement sounds like someone who doesn't read anything else but Nintendo Power.  For those of us who DO look beyond Nintendo, it's obvious that Zelda's cel-shading is neither the "only" game of its type or a "new" graphics scheme.

BTW, good points with Animal Crossing and Pikmin.  Definitely unusual games.  Well, sorta.  Animal Crossing is like the Sims 3D.  But Pikmin doesn't copy any other games (that I know of), and is definitely original.

Offline ThePerm

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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2003, 04:46:35 PM »
mario 64 had a limited opening and ending cut scene in it. Zelda: Oot was fileld with cutscnes.
Final Fantasy came out a year before zelda, but i dont htink they really had any correlation with each other. Games were going to get more and more cutscenes when it became possible given the power of the systems to make cutscenes.Wind Waker takes what they had in oot and kicks it up.
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Offline Mario

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2003, 05:00:25 PM »
Wind Waker is not the first cel shaded game, but it IS the first popular celshaded game. There is a difference. Nintendo were taking a huge risk bringing the most popular videogames character EVER into a cel shaded world, no other company has ever done that!

Offline AGENTDICKLAURENT

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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2003, 06:10:56 PM »
Quote

Wind Waker is not the first cel shaded game, but it IS the first popular celshaded game.


Eh no.. stick to the other point. The risk Nintendo took with Zelda was changing Zelda, doesn't have anything to do with cel-shading per see. Making a cel-shaded game isn't risky. Changing something you know already works was the risk. For example see what Capcom did with the MegaMan games in the NES-days or what Capcom did with the Street Fighter games in the 16-bit era or what they've done with the Resident Evil franchise. Good examples of what a company that won't risk changes to something would do.

Sorry Capcom..

Offline Termin8Anakin

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2003, 09:51:12 PM »
You know why Wind Waker isn't a risk anymore? Because it already is a success! Albeit not compared to other Zeldas, but still a success.
Nintendo, of course, isn't the only company who takes risks, but they are the biggest company to take risks this side of Sega.
Do you know what I say to all the people who are comparing the 'cool' graphics of Sly Racoon (and JSRF)to the 'kiddy' graphics in Zelda?
"Both Sly Racoon and Zelda use a new graphics technique called 'cel-shading'. It's like an advanced form of 2D sprites, which were used in old games like Doom and Wolfenstien, and makes the game like a live cartoon. You can tell that it's cel-shaded by the big thick black outlines that all the characters have. The reason why the new Zelda doens't have it is because Nintendo have used a sort of next-generation of cel-shading, which rids the game of the outlines, and gives it a more natural look. Companies everywhere are using cel-shading now. It's like a current trend. Nintendo just took it to the next level."

And yes, there's some 'Nintenso is great' sorta comments there, but that's the only way I can get them to listen. Tell them everyone does the same things over and over again, and that Nintendo does things differently, and infinitely better than everyone. But then I say if they think the new Zelda looks good, they say 'yes'.

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Offline Tael

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2003, 10:46:57 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin
The reason why the new Zelda doens't have it is because Nintendo have used a sort of next-generation of cel-shading, which rids the game of the outlines, and gives it a more natural look.
Wrong, the outlines are there because they want them to be there, it's a design decision. They actually have to add polys to the models to create the outlines.  

Offline Termin8Anakin

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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2003, 11:00:09 PM »
Oh well.
At least i got those kids interested in Zelda.
And that's all that counts to me - awareness that Nintendo is better than most, if not all developers.
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Offline Kuchakor

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Nintendo, the dare devil?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2003, 03:10:48 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: theaveng
Quote

Originally posted by: The Omen
BTW, good points with Animal Crossing and Pikmin.  Definitely unusual games.  Well, sorta.  Animal Crossing is like the Sims 3D.  But Pikmin doesn't copy any other games (that I know of), and is definitely original.


Well, Animal Forest (what AC started as on N64) and when was the Sims ever 2d??

Selling Rare might also be considered a risk, but....
so long banjo....

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