NWR Interactive => Podcast Discussion => Topic started by: Jonnyboy117 on April 25, 2013, 12:38:09 AM
Title: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on April 25, 2013, 12:38:09 AM
Please use this forum thread to discuss Mega Man 3, which won the poll to become the latest RFN RetroActive game. It is available on both Wii and 3DS Virtual Console, as well as the Mega Man Anniversary Collection for GameCube/PS2, and of course the original version is on NES.
While comparisons to other Mega Man games, including MM2, are inevitable, I would encourage everyone to focus on this particular game and its own merits. We will try to do the same on the podcast.
Just to remind you all, we will be quoting your forum posts here to help drive the podcast discussion. However, the current plan is to record that segment on Thursday, May 2, so please post your comments by then if you'd like to be read on the show.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Ignoramus on April 25, 2013, 01:24:56 AM
Curious to what platform everyone will choose. I'm going 3DS here.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Sundoulos on April 25, 2013, 02:32:13 AM
I went with the 3DS as well simply because playing things on the handheld is far easier for me these days. I'm a dad, but I'm a dad who is uncomfortable with commandeering the television to play games. :)
No deep thoughts to start out here, but I have to say that I had forgotten how much I liked some of the music of some of the stages in this game, particularly that of the Magnet Man, Spark Man and Snake Man stages, as well as the title song. As this was probably one of the first games I bought for myself as a kid, I played it to death. Those stages really hit the nostalgia button. They probably rank among my favorite stage music in the entire classic Mega Man series.
That being said, I originally bought this game and played it as a kid, while I had tons of fun with the game, I was disappointed in the music overall. Aside from the tracks I mentioned (as well as a few others), I didn't find most of the music as memorable as I had in the first two games. I could hum any number of the themes from the first two games, but I still had trouble remembering a lot of the music from 3.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Shaymin on April 25, 2013, 08:00:23 AM
A6 Red as a starting password breaks everything, just an FYI.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Rodrigue on April 25, 2013, 08:27:07 AM
3DS seems like it would be the logical choice for most people, since it's a current generation platform and it's more convenient for busy people.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on April 25, 2013, 09:33:15 AM
I'll probably burn through it this weekend.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Sarail on April 25, 2013, 11:19:15 AM
Original NES version for me. I keep the console hooked up in my bedroom. MM3, let's do this. Time to finish you for the 3794283472937th time. :)
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: lolmonade on April 25, 2013, 01:17:48 PM
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 25, 2013, 01:41:08 PM
Anyone want to gift me the game on Wii so I can join in? LOL
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on April 26, 2013, 01:15:18 AM
I'm very curious, which stage do you beat first? It seems there are multiple, logical starting points. I've always found Top Man (stage and boss) to be the easiest, but Snake Man is also quite doable without any E Tanks or special weapons.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Sundoulos on April 26, 2013, 07:46:26 AM
When I played the game as a kid, I more often than not start with Top Man. His pattern is fairly easy, and if you immediately use his weapon against the next appropriate boss, you get the Rush Jet earlier in the game. Edit: Nevermind, I misremembered. Shadow Man give you the Rush Marine rather than the Rush Jet.
Snake Man and Magnet Man first are also good entry points for the boss weakness loop because both can be defeated pretty easily with the regular buster. You can usually brute force Snake Man. Magnet Man has pretty simple pattern to his attacks; if you are patient enough to learn it. Magnet Man's stage also provides your easiest encounter with Protoman since the ground is level and you have plenty of room to slide under him as he attacks. The only downside is that Magnet Man's stage has the disappearing blocks, but the block pattern here is much easier to deal with than the ones in the MM1 Ice Man or MM2 Heat Man stages.
Something I really never noticed until this playthrough: In Magnet Man's stage, some of the (what I presume to be) batteries have an R&W symbol on them instead of the traditional 'W'. Then I recalled that in this game, that Wily had supposedly reformed and that Doctor Right/Light and Wily were supposed to have built these eight robot masters together, as well as the peace-keeping robot Gamma. It just goes to show that I'm not very observant, I guess.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on April 26, 2013, 11:48:38 AM
I just died three times in a row on Snake Man's stage. Not because it's difficult, but because those clouds that are supposed to carry you upward don't work, lol. They feel very 'glitchy'. I think it's because of the way they vibrate upwards and left to right, but three times now Mega Man has clipped through those floating platforms or inexplicably been thrown off into a chasm.
I should say, I'm playing the 50HZ PAL version on Wii. I am kind of tempted to buy the game again on 3DS just to have a 60 HZ version.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Rodrigue on April 26, 2013, 12:20:38 PM
One of the worst things about the Mega Man series is how you need to go through the stages in a particular order for it to be doable.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on April 26, 2013, 12:37:54 PM
One of the worst things about the Mega Man series is how you need to go through the stages in a particular order for it to be doable.
You can do the levels in a certain sequence which might make it easier, true, but you can totally approach them any way you want. It's very much doable. I've played through Mega Man 9 (my favourite in the series) numerous times and have very much enjoyed approaching the levels in various different sequences. In fact, that's part of the appeal of the series.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ejamer on April 26, 2013, 03:11:33 PM
Always started with Magnet Man as a kid, so found it funny when Snake/Top were listed as the best starting levels. Can't really remember where I went after getting the cool (but not really that useful) Magnet Missile.
I want to disagree that Mega Man forces you into certain paths - or at least, not that all Mega Man games do. For both 2 and 3 there are multiple possible "easy" starting points, and once you are good enough you really can start with any level. As a kid I always enjoyed the fact that you could experiment with different levels if getting stuck somewhere - made it a lot easier to keep playing then if you had to keep hammering away at one sticking point.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Mop it up on April 26, 2013, 04:05:22 PM
Top Man and Magnet Man are both designed to be a start point, as which each of them, it takes 14 shots from the regular arm cannon to defeat them as opposed to 28 for all other robots. We always went with Top Man first, he and his stage are a little easier with no weapons and items than Magnet Man. I like to have the Shadow Blade when dealing with those large spring things that shoot missiles over your head in Magnet Man's stage.
I'm a bit surprised people start with Snake Man, he's quite unpredictable and does a lot of damage from running into you. Even with the Shadow Blade I still have some trouble there. That isn't his big weakness, but I do find him easier to deal with than Gemini Man and Needle Man so I'd rather face him without his weakness than those two.
The problem with Mega Man 3 is that the boss order was screwed up, making it impossible to always have each robot's weakness. The two loops play out like this:
Top > Shadow > Spark > Magnet > Hard > Top... Needle > Snake > Gemini > Needle...
Fortunately each boss has a couple of other partial weaknesses so there are some weapons that can be used to take them out in 14 or less hits, but still, it's rather odd that CapCom messed up the big weakness chart.
Another fun fact is that each robot is weak to its own weapon, taking them all out in 7 hits, which can be useful when you face them again in Wily's Castle. Then you don't have to deal with Shadow Man with that awful Top Spin...
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Rodrigue on April 26, 2013, 07:37:24 PM
One of the worst things about the Mega Man series is how you need to go through the stages in a particular order for it to be doable.
You can do the levels in a certain sequence which might make it easier, true, but you can totally approach them any way you want. It's very much doable. I've played through Mega Man 9 (my favourite in the series) numerous times and have very much enjoyed approaching the levels in various different sequences. In fact, that's part of the appeal of the series.
Mega Man 9 seemed easier than the others when I played it. I'm not sure if I got lucky and played the easy stage first but I did the flying saucer guy first and I don't think it took me more than two or three tries to beat it. Meanwhile I struggle to reach the halfway point of Top Man's stage here without dying once.
Some stages are easier but have annoying bosses so you end up having to start over until you figure out their patterns perfectly... or just beat the stages the "proper" way.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: NWR_Neal on April 26, 2013, 10:28:43 PM
Beat Top and Shadow.
Man, the slow down in this game can be awful sometimes, especially during the cats in Top Man's stage.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on April 26, 2013, 11:14:43 PM
ooooOOOOOOO GOD DAMN! / (http://i.imgur.com/PjVOP1d.png)
Shoutout if you used a heavy book or something to weigh down 'right' on controller 2 when you were a kid.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Halbred on April 27, 2013, 01:09:42 AM
My path forward has always been Top Man > Shadow Man > Spark Man > Magnet Man > Hard Man > Snake Man (beat him with the Mega Buster) > Gemini Man > Needle Man.
The downside to this is that you get Rush Jet after beating Needle Man, so you have to tolerate Magnet Man's stupid disappearing block puzzles (which aren't that bad, actually), and Snake Man--who is weak to Needle Cannon--has to be beat by the Mega Buster.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on April 27, 2013, 01:33:25 AM
Just finished it, here's the route I took: Top Man > Magnet Man > Hard Man > Shadow Man > Spark Man > Gemini Man > Needle Man > Snake Man
It's a little longer and a little rougher than Mega Man 2, but not by too much. You have to be a real knower for boss weaknesses since you have to deal with all the MM2 bosses as well. The slowdown that happens in some levels is bleaaauugh. All of the music is awesome except for the boss music. The bugs in this game are interesting. So altogether, I rate this game pineapple on a scale of fruit.
And now I can't get this song out of my head.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on April 27, 2013, 06:06:30 AM
Man, the slow down in this game can be awful sometimes, especially during the cats in Top Man's stage.
Yeah. That was a bummer. Now imagine that slow down combined with 50HZ. It's not pretty.
On that note, I broke down and bought the 60HZ 3DS version. Do I feel dirty about buying it again? Yes. Was it worth paying £4.50 to be able to play it at 60HZ? Unfortunately, yes. Damn you Nintendo!
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: azeke on April 27, 2013, 06:26:19 AM
One of the worst things about the Mega Man series is how you need to go through the stages in a particular order for it to be doable.
I am playing Mega Man 2 on and off, and each time, choosing next level i go just go whatever. I got to Wily's 1st level that way.
I am playing on hard.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: tyrian3 on April 27, 2013, 07:30:58 AM
I am playing it on the NES and I usually go Top Man-Shadow Man-Gemini Man as a starting trio. Don't know why but I've always beaten those 3 in the beginning in that order :P I love the sliding, and I love the music in top man's stage :D boy this is going to be FUN!
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Damaba on April 27, 2013, 07:40:20 AM
This will be my first time doing retroactive and I'm looking forward to some good old mega man challenge. I will be playing this on my brand spanking new 3dsXL! If memory serves me right is this the Mega Man game with the glitch in Gemini's board when you fall down a pit but never die?
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: tyrian3 on April 27, 2013, 08:02:00 AM
This will be my first time doing retroactive and I'm looking forward to some good old mega man challenge. I will be playing this on my brand spanking new 3dsXL! If memory serves me right is this the Mega Man game with the glitch in Gemini's board when you fall down a pit but never die?
congrats for your new jewel first of all :D I don't know about that glitch, but in the Gemini Man stage you meet Proto Man and they just stare at eachother for a while, then he leaves. The other times you always fight. I always wondered why that happened :P
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Shaymin on April 27, 2013, 09:05:12 AM
I'm thinking about doing this Needle -> Snake -> Gemini -> Magnet for a first four. At least then I have Rush Jet for Magnet Man, because the first game beat disappearing block sections out of me.
*shudder*
And for various political and financial reasons, I'll be playing on the Anniversary Collection for Gamecube. Let's see how awkward this gets.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: lolmonade on April 27, 2013, 09:24:46 AM
I'm thinking about doing this Needle -> Snake -> Gemini -> Magnet for a first four. At least then I have Rush Jet for Magnet Man, because the first game beat disappearing block sections out of me.
*shudder*
And for various political and financial reasons, I'll be playing on the Anniversary Collection for Gamecube. Let's see how awkward this gets.
Political?
I'm playing on my gamecube as well starting today. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are, as I recall the controls not being that big of a hinderance when I played it last.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on April 27, 2013, 09:32:56 AM
Quote
I'm playing on my gamecube as well starting today. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are, as I recall the controls not being that big of a hinderance when I played it last.
It's kind of a big deal for those of us old enough that the entirety of certain Megaman games are muscle memory.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: lolmonade on April 27, 2013, 10:18:48 AM
I'm playing on my gamecube as well starting today. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are, as I recall the controls not being that big of a hindrance when I played it last.
It's kind of a big deal for those of us old enough that the entirety of certain Megaman games are muscle memory.
Ok, so I played for about 5 minutes. The controls are ass.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: marty on April 27, 2013, 03:35:30 PM
After about 2 hours of playtime, I've bested the first 8 robot bosses.
I played MM3 quite a bit as a kid but haven't touched the game in 20 years or so and don't really remember too much of it. I didn't remember the "correct" order or having to face off against Protoman. Other things, like having to hook most of my jumps in certain areas (to scroll the screen and trigger an enemy), came back pretty quickly.
A little patience goes a long way and, with few exceptions, it's far safer (and saner) to back up a little bit, assess where you need to land, wait for a safe opportunity, and then continue. Charging ahead and relying on reflexes rarely pays off and often lends itself to a quick, annoying deaths. Once I got used to the idea that Megaman is pretty weak, delicate, and immobile, I was able to lock into a method for clearing stages pretty easily.
Outside the bosses, I'm not really enjoying the game. The game isn't bad, per se, but being Megaman just isn't a very engaging experience and I feel like I'm on autopilot, most of the time. I'll try and finish the game up this weekend and give a final impression.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Shaymin on April 27, 2013, 10:38:41 PM
Lucky for me, my roommate's PS2 collection contained the Anniversary Collection. So I got to play a mostly playable version. And I managed to beat it in a little over two hours.
I still stand by Top Man (Top... Man... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M)) being the most irritating Robot Master in the entire franchise. Yes, I know about Air Man, Heat Man, and I could hear the argument for Shadow Man even. But Top Man's power is probably the most frustrating ability this side of the Charge Kick considering you never know when it's going to make contact.
In the final form of Wily, I spent a good 15 minutes dying repeatedly because I was trying to make the jump from the right platform and land Mega Man on top of Wily's sprite. I finally got the job done when I realized I had to instead land between the giant spike and Wily's sprite to actually do some damage. The only other time I actually managed to get it to work was on the Heat Man fight... even Shadow Man had to be beat with Hard Knuckle (first fight) and his own weapon (boss reunion).
I think I see why they brought in the charge shot for 4 after playing through - I found myself using the rapid-fire function given in the Anniversary games (Y on the Gamecube controller, Triangle on the PS2) way more than I wanted to. If I didn't, I was losing damage races to the likes of the porcupines in Needle Man's stage and the fullscreen snakes in Snake Man's stage.
Last MM3-specific point - I found the game throwing extra lives at you to be a problem in the later Wily stages because I found myself needing more E-tank and weapon refill opportunities than the game would afford. It was really bad after the Yellow Devil because I got bad draws on the ? tanks the rest of the game and got 1-ups where I needed E-Tanks and weapon energy to get Hard Knuckle full again.
I'm not a fan of NES games getting more attention on the 3DS's Virtual Console than actual handheld games, so although I'll take NES games when offered I don't actually buy them.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Rodrigue on April 28, 2013, 01:49:55 AM
Outside the bosses, I'm not really enjoying the game. The game isn't bad, per se, but being Megaman just isn't a very engaging experience and I feel like I'm on autopilot, most of the time. I'll try and finish the game up this weekend and give a final impression.
I agree, but for different reasons I think. Usually I just get stuck at one point and have to restart until I get past it. Rinse and repeat. It's just annoying having to redo the same thing over and over because of a difficult jump or an annoying enemy.
I considered using the save state on the 3DS Virtual Console, but I haven't done it yet. For now I'm just using it to save at the selection screen to avoid remembering passwords.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: tyrian3 on April 28, 2013, 02:19:53 PM
Last night I did the first bosses, in order Top-Shadow-Gemini. Having Rush Marine (you get it with the Shadow Blade) is useful in Gemini Man's stage, maybe the water section there is the only reasonable use for the whole thing. Too bad because I've always liked it! Top Man was very easy, I know that level and the boss like the back of my hand. Shadow Man was pretty hard with the Mega Buster, I couldn't avoid his sliding charge. Then I used the Top Spin and after 4 (kamikaze) hits he was gone. Gemini Man's stage is really cool once you get in the underground part. I've never understood why Proto in this one just stares at you, then opens your path and goes away. The coloured tiles in the background are always nice to look at :) The boss isn't really hard, shoot him to the left and then jump carefully to avoid him, once the clone is gone unload the shadow blade on him with fury! Now I'll do Snake Man and Needle Man. I can't wait to get to the old MM2 bosses part :D
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on April 28, 2013, 02:54:25 PM
Ooooooooooooh, here we go. I promised you folks back in the poll thread that I had a LOT to say about this game, and indeed I do. I'm not sure if I should break my separate talking points into different posts or not. I shall do so at one of the Moderator's requests if my filibuster is one that impedes accessibility to the information herein or the thread in general.
With that disclaimer out of the way, let us begin!
http://puu.sh/2IQKx.png (http://puu.sh/2IQKx.png) < See that right there? that little jittery bit of misplaced pixels just above Shadow Man's window on the stage select screen? THAT right there made me think for years and years and YEARS that there was something wrong with my copy of Mega Man 3. that the game at any moment could go to a mess of garbage graphics and nonsense pixels all over the place. I thought something happened to my copy and I needed to get a new one.
Only, the same thing happened. Heck, even the ROM i'm using to capture screens for my posts here have this very minor graphical glitch, but it really sets the tone for how barely functioning Capcom allowed this game to be shipped out in, and how stressful of a development cycle it must have been for Mr. Inafune, who at the time was forced to ship out a game that while it stood on a proven engine and has some cool ideas, also suffers from many of these cool ideas being half-baked, ill advised, or the potential in an idea just not being realized properly. Mega Man 3 is my third least favorite classic series game next to Mega Man 7 and Rockman & Forte [not counting spinoffs, the game boy games, Wily Wars, the abominable DOS games, the Game Gear Mega Man V port, Or Rockman & Forte 2: Challenge from the future for the Wonderswan]
Level design is a chief reason that the Mega Man series receives the accolades that it does. Levels are usually intuitive and promote some of the most brilliant examples of iterative learning in a video game. to this effect, they actually do a pretty good job of that by usually placing Hammer Joes in spots where you won't get hit by their hammer at first and you can clearly see their eye color change before they toss it, telling you something is up. There are instances of really, REALLY badly designed levels in this game, though. Things are pretty hunkey dorey outside the bugged out platforms form Snake Man's level that will push you into the abyss if you're standing on the pipe as it spawns them, or the really obnoxious placement of a hammer Joe just at a spot that requires Rush coil to get up to in Hard Man's stage, but those are small potatoes in comparison to the real horror of the Doc Robot stages.
Doc Robot was a good idea in concept. bring back 8 enemies that resonate with those who picked up our huge smash hit game as a set of bosses to face after you beat the new set of robot masters! because we know that the player has toughed it out through the robot master stages already, we can make these stages more difficult and put in more instances of mandatory use of the travel items and weapons! It all sounds great, but the truth to the matter is is that they recycle stage themes from the Robot Master stages, which starts to set in the only instance I can think of in the classic series where fatigue ever really set in from having to play through stages that use similar tile sets, enemies, and the same music from Spark, Shadow, Needle, and Gemini Man's stages. add in the fact that because there are 2 bosses to these stages with stretches of stage in between each boss, these stages are long. they also don't have very many checkpoints. THERE ARE NO CHECKPOINTS BETWEEN THE BEGINNING OF A DOC ROBOT STAGE AND THE FIRST DOC ROBOT IN SAID STAGE.
They even put in the little boss gates, which are usually an indicator of "Hey, here's a checkpoint before you fight a boss!" but this is all terrible lies that were never properly put into the game. Doc Robots themselves are terrible to fight as well. the beauty of the Mega Man series is that not only does a robot master tend to have a weakness to a weapon, these weapons usually tend to be something that is particularly situated to fighting that particular Robot Master. there are good examples of this in Mega Man 3, like Hard Knuckle being good for hitting a target that's only vulnerable while it's completely immobile like Top Man, or Search snakes being well suited to fighting Gemini Man, a robot master who only jumps when he's made a complete run to the walls of his boss arena. The point is that Mega Man 2 bosses were designed for Mega Man 2 boss arenas with Mega Man 2 weapons. Doc Robots are huge in comparison to the robots they are mimicking. This becomes a HUGE problem in fights like Flash Doc, Air Doc, and Quick Doc where strategies that previously worked in Mega Man 2 no longer work because it's nigh impossible to clear them with a jump or stand in a tiny nook of the room where they land from a jump to get in a few quick and easy hits.
There are no checkpoints between the beginning of a level and the first Doc Robot of a Doc Robot stage.
Compounding this further are a couple of the Rush Jet required segments of these stages. Particularly, the Air Doc and Crash Doc stage where immediately after the frustrating Air Doc Fight where you discover the easy way to beat Air Man is gone because Doc Robot is such a fatty, you get greeted with a weapon energy capsule, the annoying Parasyu enemies from Shadow Man's stage, Yambows, and a very, VERY long expanse of bottomless pit. you're likely weak from fighting Air Doc, not aware of the walking in pits cheat unless you have Nintendo Power/internet, and probably not aware of how the heck to exploit Rush Jet's horrible design flaw that makes it the most broken version of Rush in -ANY- Mega Man game. the weapon energy doesn't respawn, so I hope you can make it in one go, or you're gonna have to farm Yambows for weapon energy, which aren't exactly the most ideal enemy to do that from. the inexcusable laziness of not providing at last an easier enemy to farm that has a higher drop rate of weapon energy here is inexcusable, and the lack of health after Air Doc is equally kinda devastating. It makes it a real slog and a chore. especially if you're not particularly well versed in Crash Doc's reactive attack pattern. Long story short, the Wily Castle is a REAL breath of fresh air in spite of being laden with recycled boss battles too [yay, we get to fight another Devil and another Clone like in the original Mega Man!] here from all the slowdown-laden, overly long Doc Robot Stages where you somehow have to figure out how to beat Quick Doc with the worst weapon in the game. ______________________________________________________________________________________
"But wait, Clex!" you say. "Quick Doc isn't weak to the Top Spin!" you cry! That's absolutely correct! you know why? Because Top Spin is actually one of the BETTER weapons in Mega Man 3 when applied correctly.
TOP SPIN: it's a robot master weapon that takes skill and finesse, yes... but it's essentially like the Instant Shield from Sonic 3 and Knuckles. it's energy efficient and takes out a lot of the regular enemies in the air in a fairly efficient manner. yes, you can lose all your weapon energy for it as it only drains weapon energy when you successfully connect with an enemy. Mega Man will also get pushed away from said enemy if you don't have any directional input held, and thus you can kinda harmlessly bounce off of incoming enemies and kill them at the same time with a well timed Top Spin.
GEMINI LASER: Absolutley terrible. does about the same damage as a regular buster shot to most enemies and you can only have one of these slow moving projectiles on screen at once. doesn't go through walls because it rebounds off of them, making it take even LONGER to get your one shot off screen. also, you can't switch weapons while there's a Gemini Laser on screen! if you miss, you are totally defenseless! JOY!
SPARK SHOT: Also pretty bad for similar reasons to the Gemini Laser. it's not very damaging, and when you use it to stun an enemy, you can't hit them again OR switch weapons. it's kinda handy for freezing Bikky at the peak of it's jump or Returning Monking, but otherwise, it's pretty useless except as a boss weakness weapon.
HARD KNUCKLE: This might as well be a melee punch because there's very VERY few enemies that this is worth using on. it freezes Mega Man whenever he fires it, it travels through the air slow with a bit of directional input allowed, and hits hard if you manage to hit with it. I'd say it's kinda good for mini-boss type enemies if Needle Cannon or the buster didn't outclass it in raw DPS and rate of fire. it works best when you get up in the enemy's face and fire it. also good I guess for the first half of the Gamma fight.
SHADOW BLADE: Let's nerf the Metal Blade! yeah, this one doesn't impress me too much because of the rate of fire thing I've been talking about. it'd be a lot more useful if you could shoot it at the downward angles you could for the metal blade or if it could pass through enemies to hit 'em twice.
NEEDLE CANNON: Buster replacement, ho! Now this is what I'm talking about! it may not fire totally straight, but Needle Cannon is a wonderful way to butter through enemies if you're not good at mashin' the B-button with the buster. I suggest prioritizing Needle Man because he gives the two most broken weapons in the game.
MAGNET MISSILE: This one's all right, I guess. outstrips the Shadow Blade in taking out enemies above and below you as it shoots out a projectile that will shoot up or down when it detects an enemy it can hit. at only 14 shots, it's kinda costly for the pittance of damage it does to some aerial enemies in comparison to Top Spin, but it takes a lot less spot-on accuracy to use Magnet Missiles, so it's a preference thing.
SEARCH SNAKE: One of the best weapons in Mega Man 8 Bit Deathmatch is also an improved version of the Bubble Lead from Mega Man 2. does decent damage, has similar rate of fire to the buster with 3 shots on screen at a time, and climbs the terrain. overall, I like the little guys a lot, and I actually would suggest using these to kill Gamma's second form over Top Spin if you're inexperienced with Top Spin.
RUSH COIL: Ah, yes. Robot's best friend was an idea introduced in this game, and to give it a push, many bits of level design are clearly meant to try and get you to use the red pooch as much as possible. Mega Man 3's required bits of level that have Rush Coil are an interesting idea that potentially dooms you to energy farming if you use too much and die before a checkpoint. still, It has to count for something that Rush Coil is a movement utility that lets you fire, unlike the previous Magnet beams and items the series had up to this point.
RUSH MARINE: Cool idea on paper, not very useful in practice. if you have Rush Jet, use it instead.
RUSH JET: More unbalanced than Metal Blades. You heard me right. This game's version of Rush Jet is pretty much a god-tier Mega Man item. fill enemies on the screen no matter where they are with Buster lead, AND trivialize any and all platforming challenges with it's ability to move any direction without hindrance. FUN FACT! Rush Jet does not consume it's weapon energy if Mega Man's Feet are not touching it. this means most of the time you 'ride' rush jet, you should actually be riding it like you're a newb playing your first fighting game and doing nothing but jumps. http://puu.sh/2ISl3.png (http://puu.sh/2ISl3.png) seriously, I think you can get like... 3 minutes of flight out of Rush jet by just hopping on it all the time.
Speaking of new series additions, there's a couple of other big ones that Mega Man 3 brought to the table... namely, the Slide and Protoman.
The Slide is about the best idea in Mega Man 3. it provides two VERY much needed things to Mega Man in giving him a way to move a bit faster from his usual plodding jog, and away to shrink his hit box in a way that can't be abused like a duck and promotes using good timing to dodge the telegraphed attacks of the Robot Masters.
Proto Man, however... as much as I LOVE Blues and his Racer X-esque qualities, I can't help but feel he's a very half-baked idea. that could have been SO much more grandiose than what we actually got. there's actually another series that had an NES entry that did this kind of character in a way that was great.
Before this handsome fellow was toppin' the tiers at Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tournaments, he was a menacing mini-boss type situation that would show up unexpectedly to either lend Kirby a hand or challenge and test him. We never actually got to see Meta Knight's actual fighting abilities through the course of the game, only that he wielded a sword and had a very similar body type to Kirby. It built this tension as he threw his minion waves at Kirby, which were enemies you wouldn't normally face through normal levels, and you had to figure out how to get through the mall.
Picture this, if you will; Proto Man has been challenging Mega Man as a mini-boss, but uses various different robots to challenge him and test his abilities rather than doing it himself. that is saved for the actual Break Man battle that serves as a pretty pointless stop-gap between the Doc Robot and Wily stages in the current game.
This last Proto Man fight is pointless as you've faced far tougher challenges in the Doc Robot stages, and literally nothing changes about Proto Man in this fight other than the arena and his appearance. But if you hadn't fought him before and found out he has a similar Skill set to Mega Man, but one thing even better; He can Charge up his Buster shots and Fire them at you in a large burst!
Dr. Wily's Revenge was already in development when this game came out for the NES, and in that you fought a new rival enemy that gave you one last power for the Wily fortress... And Proto Man as of late has always been shown to be the one with the chargeable buster and have that unstable reactor that gives him such power that he won't let Dr. Light replace. How wicked would it have been if the Mega Buster was your prize for beating Break Man before the wily stages? oh well.
There's a few other little attentions to Detail I could note, like talking about how you can get Weapons and Rush adapters early because of the poor implementation of the menu screen, or how there always seems to be this weird colored flicker when ever there's horizontal scrolling or how you can enable odd Debug codes by holding button combos on Controller 2 [I used to do that with my feet when I was a kid.] or wacky other bits of trivia and such, but I feel that this post shall have to suffice for now.
I'd like to congratulate those who managed to brave this word soup. As I said before, I can edit this post and split the various points of it into individual posts if need be, Dr. Metts.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: BrandonCHFG on April 28, 2013, 03:01:42 PM
I had three games for the NES, Super Mario Bros (and Duck Hunt), Mario 3, and RC Pro Am. Of those three I played them endlessly, but I never played many of the classic NES games. Since I've got my 3DS, I've been playing through some of them, and I'm excited to play this one for the first time. I am almost finished with Mega Man 2 and it'll be interesting to see how they compare.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: BrandonCHFG on April 29, 2013, 08:32:22 AM
My first lesson playing Mega Man 3 is that the Save State functionality of the VC can utterly ruin an experience. I started MM3 by setting save points after every difficult point. If I died or lost a lot of energy, I'd restore and replay until I got through with my health intact, then save again. Functionally, this worked, but it was boring, especially those points where I died over and over. Then I decided to play through each level until Game Over, and didn't worry about saving. Queue the Heavenly music! It was a completely awesome experience. Sure, it sucks to finally get through a massively difficult section, only to die because you mistimed a jump, but it pays off in the end when you start to get the level's rhythm. After doing 5 levels so far like this, the game is starting to feel comfortable. That comfortable feeling is why I still have fun playing Super Mario Bros. even now. :D
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: sirmastersephiroth on April 29, 2013, 09:59:35 PM
This is my first Nintendo World Report (Radio Free Nintendo) RetroActive. Here's my progress:
Robot Masters Magnet Man:[size=78%] The stage is pretty easy except for those disapearing blocks. I’ve always hated those. Magnet Man himself was a bit challenging. But I was able to defeat him eventually.[/size]
Hard Man: This stage was kind of hard. And I had to “farm” for weapon energy since I used up all my Magnet on the gorillas.
Top Man: This level was pretty easy. The cat gave me a bit of trouble the first time he appeared. I was able to beat them easily the second time onward.
Shadow Man: Ok, that whole darkness thing? Pretty cool. And what’s the red liquid coming from the ceiling supposed to be? I’m sure this would have been censored if this was a Castlevania game (like Super Castlevania IV). Shadow Man was easy to defeat with Top Man’s weapon but, I don’t like the mechanic.
Spark Man: This stage is pretty cool. And very easy. The most difficult parts were avoiding the electrical beams and especially the screws that unite in the air. Spark Man was a cinch with the Shadow Blades.
Snake Man: Snake Man’s stage is really awesome. The graphics are great and the snake heads look really cool. It suddenly turns into Airman’s stage at the end.
Gemini Man: This stage looks good, but it’s pretty annoying, at first because of the robots that drop flame walls, then because of the tadpoles, then because of the big penguins. Gemini man was real easy, though.
Needle Man: Needle Man’s stage was pretty boring. And Needle Man went down fast with the Gemini Laser.
Old Robot Masters Spark Man Ruins: Metal Man: I used Hard Man’s punches and he went down easy. Quick Man: He gave me a bit more trouble because his boomerangs hit hard and you can’t have more than one Gemini Laser beam out.
Needle Man Ruins: Air Man: Air Man was a bit difficult. I died a few times trying to jump over his vortexes.
Mini Bosses: Big Hard hat. This was annoying because you had to hit him square in the cross. I found the best weapon to be the Hard Hand.
Crash Man: I ran out of Hard Knuckle, so I had to use Needle Cannon. It worked pretty well against Crash Man.
Gemini Man Ruins: Flash Man: He went down really quick with the needle cannon. Wood Man: Took a few tries and an energy tank, but I was able to defeat him with the Needle Cannon.
Shadow Man Ruins: Bubble Man: He was easy to defeat, but the Shadow Blade is no Metal Blade. Heat Man: This has been the most difficult boss so far. He deals lots of damage and is very cheap.
I'll continue tonight.....
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on April 30, 2013, 01:11:17 AM
My old friend AussieBen posted this link on Twitter, and I had to share it here due to the perfect timing.
It's a hacked version of MM3 with a new arrangement to use Konami's sound chip that has three extra audio channels (the one in Japan's version of Castlevania 3). It sounds unbelievably awesome, yet still totally 8-bit and totally Mega Man.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: sirmastersephiroth on April 30, 2013, 01:46:05 AM
It's a hacked version of MM3 with a new arrangement to use Konami's sound chip that has three extra audio channels (the one in Japan's version of Castlevania 3). It sounds unbelievably awesome, yet still totally 8-bit and totally Mega Man.
That sounds great! I wish he would do the same for Mega Man 2.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on April 30, 2013, 01:51:25 AM
It's a hacked version of MM3 with a new arrangement to use Konami's sound chip that has three extra audio channels (the one in Japan's version of Castlevania 3). It sounds unbelievably awesome, yet still totally 8-bit and totally Mega Man.
Actually, Johnny, it's not so much a hacked game as it is that RushJet1 did up an arranged soundtrack in Famitracker and then basically edited the video together by splicing in sound effect rips along with his tracks [the one he did for Wily 4 was impressively timed out to be in time with the music, considering that he used counter melodies and base lines from the robot master's stage.]
Yes, RushJet1 did a fine job. especially love how he's got the Mega Man 1 Wily boss riff in there for the wily castle boss music since that castle recycles boss concepts from that game in spades. Also love that he did the Wily Marine fortress theme from Rockman World 3/Mega Man III on Gameboy.
I'm glad someone linked that, though. I was thinking about doing so on Wednesday when everything was wrapping up, as it also proves to be a very skillful playthrough that doesn't use Energy Tanks and goes Buster Only on all bosses Except Gamma. Take note on how he seems to struggle the most on the poorly designed Doc Robot bosses. >_> it's a good basis for my argument that they are a really bad addition to this game. I could then springboard off and say that tooting the nostalgia horn doesn't work since you only faced them in the previous game. Doc Robots are a rehash in the worst way possible, and I'm very glad that the closest they ever get to trying to do them again is the Wily Memory unit out of Mega Man 10, which by comparison is actually an excellent boss battle because the Memory units are still the same size as the Robot Masters in question and still manage to replicate the attack pattern without introducing any poorly thought out variables.
But yeah. Rushjet1 is pretty awesome. seriously, check out his other videos. And Danooct1. And all the other awesome people out there that do awesome Famitracker stuff.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on April 30, 2013, 04:12:54 AM
It's a hacked version of MM3 with a new arrangement to use Konami's sound chip that has three extra audio channels (the one in Japan's version of Castlevania 3). It sounds unbelievably awesome, yet still totally 8-bit and totally Mega Man.
Holy moly, that Sparkman!
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: noname2200 on April 30, 2013, 01:07:49 PM
Haven't played this game since the early 90's, but it's still a blast. I've completely forgotten the "correct" order to defeat the bosses, but I seem to have lucked out, since I picked Top Man at random. From there I've just been going clockwise, so aside from Shadow Man I haven't been exploiting any weaknesses yet.
On a related note, am I using Top Man's power incorrectly? I don't recall pirouetting into enemies to be the ideal way to use a boss' weapon, and I sometimes take damage when I use it...
On a broader note, the game's easier than I remember. I only died three times in four stages so far (twice to Shadow Man, before I remembered to try using prior powers. I couldn't figure out what pattern, if any, he uses, and his slides hurt).
I suspect though that's mostly because I recently replayed Castlevania, which has instilled a certain caution and deliberateness in me. One thing I really like about the series, and this game in particular, is that there are extremely few "cheap" moments, at least so far. There are plenty of death pits, and enemies placed in infuriating positions (hate those stupid hedgehogs), but you always get a chance to observe the danger in relative safety first, so you know how to approach the things. One example that leapt out to me was Shadow Man's stage, where the parachuting enemies can knock you back into a pit, but the first few stop high enough to warn you, with future ones gradually creeping down. By the time you encounter one that will hit you the moment you land on the platform, you've run into three or so such enemies, so dying there is really your own fault for not paying attention. Contrast this with other NES games, like the crows in Ninja Gaiden, and Mega Man III feels even more refreshing in its fairness.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Sarail on April 30, 2013, 03:35:11 PM
So, I started playing this yesterday. First time seriously playing it in probably 15 years. My pre-planned route?
Snake Man -> Gemini Man -> Needle Man -> Magnet Man* -> Spark Man -> Hard Man -> Top Man -> Shadow Man
So far, I'm up through Hard Man's stage. For some reason in my mind, I could have sworn that Magnet was weak to Needle. Wrong wrong wrong. So anyway, after that hiccup, I've continued on. At least I almost remembered the full boss/stage order - or as a friend used to say when we were kids, "Have you made it to the captain yet?! Ah, days gone by.
Mega Man 3 has always been my favourite of the 8-bit MM games. I've played and beat all of the others, though I've yet to finish MM6, but MM3 is definitely my fav. It probably has more to do with the fact that this was the one MM game I actually owned - I rented or borrowed all of the others.
I tried playing this on the NES, but I'm missing my controller. So, I tried using my old NES Advantage. :P: Big mistake...not because it's a bad controller, but because the B button wasn't working. Ooof. Back to the GameCube version. Ugh.
So, yeah, that's how I've been playing the game. Reversed jump/fire buttons. And it's awful. But I can do it.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Kwolf on April 30, 2013, 05:06:19 PM
As a kid I always went Snake man first. I don't know why, there wasn't any real strategy or anything I just always started with him. The funny thing is I still remember that stage as an adult now. Maybe because I played it so much. I originally decided to play like that, which I did on my first start.
Today though I decided to retry and do one of the more practical orders. So I started with Top man, was shocked at how easy the stage was in comparison. I don't remember that stage at all, yet had no problem with it. Going to move on to Shadow next.
It's funny how I have replayed the X series so much, yet I haven't revisted the original series in a very long time.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: grantimus on April 30, 2013, 08:11:04 PM
Like a lot of folks here, this is my first time playing along and writing about a Retro Active feature.
I consider myself to be a glutton for punishment with games of today's era. Trials, Super Meat Boy, Runner 2; these are the games I find myself playing over and over again, losing hours to my desire to get a slightly better score.
With the Mega Man games, I started as a kid on SNES with the Mega Man X series. I've never really played one of the numbered iterations. This game is hard, and what makes it worse than the games I've mentioned above is that you can't immediately retry the section that I died in. I typically get 3 tries to beat a level, sometimes there's checkpoints midway through the stage, other times there's not, but most often, I got to the end of the stage with no lives left and barely any health, and promptly died before I could even figure out the boss' patterns.
I still managed to beat a few of the bosses, but maybe Mega Man just isn't my thing, because I feel no real desire to plow forward. Call me a heretic if you will, but damn I'm glad most games now have eliminated "lives."
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: lolmonade on April 30, 2013, 08:59:17 PM
Maybe it's a sign of me getting older, but I am finding that I don't have the patience to learn some of the old platformers like I used to. I've started a few times before committing to Snake Man as a start point. I got to the point where you're on the sky pillars, and twice in a row got hit mid air, being knocked into an insta-death pit.
I'll second Grantimus' comments that being forced to start a stage all over because you run out of lives is a bit too punishing for a game that hinges on you memorizing enemy patterns to effectively counter them.
This kind of game is something that as a kid I probably would have played hours on end, taking the time to complete the game by trial-and-error. Hell, I did that with the original Mega Man. But I can't seem to make much progress before encountering an entire new enemy that whittles my health away to nothing.
When I'm playing something like Demon's souls, it provides a considerable level of challenge while also conditioning you to learn enemy patterns, utilizing proper tactics, and punishing you appropriately for doing something you know you shouldn't have after the fact.
My biggest problem with this game is that I don't feel like there are any lessons learned when you make a mistake in this game, other than "lol, shoulda seen that coming".
----- As a fun side note, here is Title Intro to the Megaman Anniversary Collection I played on GC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDn4fC5Zjz4). Was a very WTF moment every time I loaded it up.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: marty on April 30, 2013, 10:14:17 PM
I remembered the game being much more fun when I was a kid.
I ended up with a glut of energy tanks due to their abundance in the later levels as well as 2 of the redux stages having parts that become impassable if you're all out of Rush Jet. Terrible level design for a game that places enemies pretty fairly and doesn't ever really pile on the player. Doc Wily was a cakewalk and I had 5 unused energy tanks when the credits rolled. Kind of an anti-climactic end, unfortunately.
I never locked into a groove when playing MM3. It might just be the weapon/rush switching really breaks the flow of the gameplay, or the fact that certain errors, like clipping an enemy while jumping a gap, are entirely damning, but I could never escape the feeling that I'm performing a few select functions again and again just to progress. My play-style was more procedural than intuitive or organic--the game just didn't feel good to play.
Just for a bit of vicarious living, I checked out youtube to see how this game is played by people that love it. Some people have truly impressive runs through the levels and glitch (or cheat/fake) in ways that would never occur to someone like myself (who was never in love with MM enough to really try and break the game down). For all my complaints, I do really appreciate that the game is well made--with great sounds/music/graphics--as well as being loaded with unique levels and enemies. I can easily see why people (with different tastes than my own) would love Megaman 3.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: BrandonCHFG on April 30, 2013, 11:03:24 PM
I've now played all of the levels except Gemini. I've beat one (Top Man), the others I've played through until my lives were spent, which usually got me pretty far or to the boss. After I attempt Gemini, I'm gonna go back through them all the same way. At this point, I care more about getting a feel for the game than actually beating it.
The music is fun. I don't always notice/care about music in general, but some things just catch my ear (Mumford and Sons!) and I find myself just sitting at the MM3 title screen waiting for the melody change. The levels are also catchy.
Level design is interesting. I also don't like switching between my weapon and rush. However, the spinning tops platforms, the parachuting heads, cloud camouflaged missiles, etc. are fun and unique.
Gameplay... meh. It's rewarding to make it through a series of perfectly timed jumps. The jump/blaster moves are tight. I HATE the slide. It's probably just me but I can't get the hang of it and instead of sliding under the enemy I hit him. The slowdown when several enemies hit the screen is also killing me. Literally. The screen slows down and I can't aim at the stupid cat's bug children! The crazy thing, though, is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Some snippets of a level are downright boring. Others might lag or otherwise cheat your way to a quick death. But the whole level, played through multiple times until you feel the rhythm (a.k.a. memorize it), adds up to a rewarding experience. But, I STILL hate the slide. :D
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on May 01, 2013, 04:14:59 AM
Maybe it's a sign of me getting older, but I am finding that I don't have the patience to learn some of the old platformers like I used to. I've started a few times before committing to Snake Man as a start point. I got to the point where you're on the sky pillars, and twice in a row got hit mid air, being knocked into an insta-death pit.
I'll second Grantimus' comments that being forced to start a stage all over because you run out of lives is a bit too punishing for a game that hinges on you memorizing enemy patterns to effectively counter them.
This kind of game is something that as a kid I probably would have played hours on end, taking the time to complete the game by trial-and-error. Hell, I did that with the original Mega Man. But I can't seem to make much progress before encountering an entire new enemy that whittles my health away to nothing.
When I'm playing something like Demon's souls, it provides a considerable level of challenge while also conditioning you to learn enemy patterns, utilizing proper tactics, and punishing you appropriately for doing something you know you shouldn't have after the fact.
My biggest problem with this game is that I don't feel like there are any lessons learned when you make a mistake in this game, other than "lol, shoulda seen that coming".
----- As a fun side note, here is Title Intro to the Megaman Anniversary Collection I played on GC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDn4fC5Zjz4). Was a very WTF moment every time I loaded it up.
I'd like to say that the brilliant thing about these Mega Man games is that Mega Man has a very specific way he handles that's incredibly tight and precise if you think of the game as being on a grid, he can jump a distance of 3 tile blocks horizontally and 2 blocks vertically upwards and has quite the fast fall to it. taping the D-pad lightly lets you take a pixel worth of a step to orient Mega Man, the disappearing blocks go on a sorta 2 second timer and generally have a specific rhythm to them, etc.
I find that getting used to these facts as well as knowing that the game usually presents it's new enemies and such in a manner that invokes that iterative gameplay are the main things that get me through a Mega Man game. My first run through of Mega Man 9 [a game that does unfortunately incorporate that "I Wanna Be The Guy" mentality of pretty much having newbie traps that will require more level memorization than exercising any sort of twitch reflex or such] took about 3 and a half hours because I kept in mind how Mega Man handles and was able to pick up on patterns quick. I did much the same for the likes of Mega Man 10, Mega Man X Street Fighter, and the good Romhacks I played such as Rockman 4 Minus Infinity.
As a random plug, I CANNOT RECOMMEND ROCKMAN 4 MI ENOUGH. IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD ENOUGH MEGA MAN AFTER THIS RETROACTIVE, GO TO https://sites.google.com/site/rockman4mi/home (https://sites.google.com/site/rockman4mi/home). Rockman 4 MI is a hack of Mega Man 4 that is absolutely over the top and fun. some of the rules have changed, such as Mega Man's invulnerability period and knockback being shortened, rush's functions being changed [PROTIP: Use Rush Search whenever possible!], and all the robot master weapons have been redesigned to be very, VERY powerful. it's a good time, and I managed to beat it the first time without getting a game over or abusing save states [that being said, the game does feed you 1-ups like candy.]
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: jonkykong on May 01, 2013, 08:24:11 AM
Is it just me or is the slowdown REALLY bad in this game? I remember it being a frequent thing in NES games, but never to this degree. I just tried defeating the 2nd Dark Master in the Spark Man level (I believe it's Quick Man?) using the Snake Search weapon and between all the snakes and Quick Man's boomerangs, the entire battle was in slow motion.
I'm playing on 3DS, so I'm not sure if this was always a problem with the original cart or if it's an emulation issue.
Do you think Nintendo should actively try to fix these problems when they release older games on the virtual console or would you rather play the games exactly like you remember them, warts and all?
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: lolmonade on May 01, 2013, 08:50:42 AM
Is it just me or is the slowdown REALLY bad in this game? I remember it being a frequent thing in NES games, but never to this degree. I just tried defeating the 2nd Dark Master in the Spark Man level (I believe it's Quick Man?) using the Snake Search weapon and between all the snakes and Quick Man's boomerangs, the entire battle was in slow motion.
I'm playing on 3DS, so I'm not sure if this was always a problem with the original cart or if it's an emulation issue.
Do you think Nintendo should actively try to fix these problems when they release older games on the virtual console or would you rather play the games exactly like you remember them, warts and all?
I had horrible slow framerate as well, although I don't know if it is because I'm playing on the GC port. Improving a game from its original state can be a catch 22 sometimes. Even though it would be an improvement to those playing it for the first time, if its a game you've devoured as a youngster, you often compensate for it in the way you play it, which could screw with your ability to play it.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on May 01, 2013, 01:59:25 PM
Is it just me or is the slowdown REALLY bad in this game? I remember it being a frequent thing in NES games, but never to this degree. I just tried defeating the 2nd Dark Master in the Spark Man level (I believe it's Quick Man?) using the Snake Search weapon and between all the snakes and Quick Man's boomerangs, the entire battle was in slow motion.
I'm playing on 3DS, so I'm not sure if this was always a problem with the original cart or if it's an emulation issue.
Do you think Nintendo should actively try to fix these problems when they release older games on the virtual console or would you rather play the games exactly like you remember them, warts and all?
Mega Man 3 is easily the most unstable game in the NES game line, featuring many framerate chugs and points where the sprite flicker is somehow WORSE than it is when fighting the Mecha Dragon. The 'father' of Mega Man, Keiji Inafune, sites the game's rushed nature. If you read Mega Man Official Complete Works [published by Canada based UDON entertainment], Interviews with Inafune on Mega Man 3 states that the project supervisor on the first two Mega Man games left Capcom and the man the company put in his place really didn't GET Mega Man. This management issue also caused the head planner to quit, and Inafune was forced to take a lot more responsibility on Mega Man 3 than he had on the previous games, and the last couple of months of the project were some of the most stressful he had ever gone through on a Mega Man related project. "I knew that if we had more time to polish (Mega Man 3), we could do a lot of things better, make it a better game, but the company said we needed to release it. The whole environment behind what went into the production of the game is what I least favored. Numbers one and two - I really wanted to make those games; I was so excited about them. Number three- it just turned very different" - Keiji Inafune, Nintendo Power issue 220. BONUS FUN FACT: Doc Robots' name is actually a pun in Japan that was poorly localized! The word 'dokuro' means skull, so if you said 'dokurobotto'.. uh... yeah, I think you get where I'm going with this. ^_^;;
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: sirmastersephiroth on May 01, 2013, 09:11:14 PM
This is my first Nintendo World Report (Radio Free Nintendo) RetroActive. Here's my progress:
Robot Masters Magnet Man:[size=78%] The stage is pretty easy except for those disapearing blocks. I’ve always hated those. Magnet Man himself was a bit challenging. But I was able to defeat him eventually.[/size]
Hard Man: This stage was kind of hard. And I had to “farm” for weapon energy since I used up all my Magnet on the gorillas.
Top Man: This level was pretty easy. The cat gave me a bit of trouble the first time he appeared. I was able to beat them easily the second time onward.
Shadow Man: Ok, that whole darkness thing? Pretty cool. And what’s the red liquid coming from the ceiling supposed to be? I’m sure this would have been censored if this was a Castlevania game (like Super Castlevania IV). Shadow Man was easy to defeat with Top Man’s weapon but, I don’t like the mechanic.
Spark Man: This stage is pretty cool. And very easy. The most difficult parts were avoiding the electrical beams and especially the screws that unite in the air. Spark Man was a cinch with the Shadow Blades.
Snake Man: Snake Man’s stage is really awesome. The graphics are great and the snake heads look really cool. It suddenly turns into Airman’s stage at the end.
Gemini Man: This stage looks good, but it’s pretty annoying, at first because of the robots that drop flame walls, then because of the tadpoles, then because of the big penguins. Gemini man was real easy, though.
Needle Man: Needle Man’s stage was pretty boring. And Needle Man went down fast with the Gemini Laser.
Old Robot Masters Spark Man Ruins: Metal Man: I used Hard Man’s punches and he went down easy. Quick Man: He gave me a bit more trouble because his boomerangs hit hard and you can’t have more than one Gemini Laser beam out.
Needle Man Ruins: Air Man: Air Man was a bit difficult. I died a few times trying to jump over his vortexes.
Mini Bosses: Big Hard hat. This was annoying because you had to hit him square in the cross. I found the best weapon to be the Hard Hand.
Crash Man: I ran out of Hard Knuckle, so I had to use Needle Cannon. It worked pretty well against Crash Man.
Gemini Man Ruins: Flash Man: He went down really quick with the needle cannon. Wood Man: Took a few tries and an energy tank, but I was able to defeat him with the Needle Cannon.
Shadow Man Ruins: Bubble Man: He was easy to defeat, but the Shadow Blade is no Metal Blade. Heat Man: This has been the most difficult boss so far. He deals lots of damage and is very cheap.
I'll continue tonight.....
Continued from before...
Wily’s Castle: First Section: This section was super easy. And the Turtle Machine was a cinch. I just used my Mega Buster.
Second Section: This section was pretty easy. Until I reached the boss. I opened the room and I was like “Where’s the boss?” And then bit’s and pieces started to form together. I thought, “Oh Crap!!! Not again!!!” At least he’s not as hard as in Mega Man.
Third Section: This section is kind of annoying because of those little robots that shoot horizontally and in a vertical arc .The Cloning Machine was easy, once I knew what I had to do. I did use an energy tank on it, though.
Bosses Redux: This is always a painful part of the Mega Man experience, having to fight the monsters again.
Dr. Wily: Shooting the turret at the bottom was easy with the Spark Shot. Shooting the top of the saucers was a bit harder because of the timing involved, especially since the Hammer Arm has a bit of a delay. Wait, this is a fake Wily? What a surprise.
Gamma: Shooting of the head with the Shadow Blade was easy. Using the Top Spin on Wily was even easier. This last boss was very disappointing.
Overall, Mega Man III is a really cool game. But I prefer the second one a lot better. The music is better, the game play is more balanced, and I like the robot masters better too. One thing I hated from Mega Man III was using “Host Robot Bodies” for the Mega Man 2 bosses. I would have preferred to fight the bosses in their original form. One thing I loved was Rush. I think it brought some personality to the special items and a cool companion that Mega Man did not have in Mega Man II.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on May 01, 2013, 10:18:37 PM
Dr. Wily: Shooting the turret at the bottom was easy with the Spark Shot. Shooting the top of the saucers was a bit harder because of the timing involved, especially since the Hammer Arm has a bit of a delay. Wait, this is a fake Wily? What a surprise.
this boss gets even more trivialized when you realise you can just hover with rush jet and shoot the second form unhindered. decimates it FAR quicker than trying to use Hard Knuckle, which is a terrible weapon unless you can get close or the target is totally immobile.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: JordanElek on May 01, 2013, 11:36:36 PM
I'll second Grantimus' comments that being forced to start a stage all over because you run out of lives is a bit too punishing for a game that hinges on you memorizing enemy patterns to effectively counter them.
The levels are only a couple minutes long, though. I'm actually finding the checkpoints to be overly generous, so a game over feels like proper punishment if I couldn't get through in at least three tries.
When I'm playing something like Demon's souls, it provides a considerable level of challenge while also conditioning you to learn enemy patterns, utilizing proper tactics, and punishing you appropriately for doing something you know you shouldn't have after the fact.
My biggest problem with this game is that I don't feel like there are any lessons learned when you make a mistake in this game, other than "lol, shoulda seen that coming".
I feel the opposite. Like someone already mentioned, this game is pretty good at providing iterative learning opportunities. After a few tries at a level, I've been able to make it to the end without any damage, which means I've learned how to properly navigate the level. This is the same kind of experience I had with Dark Souls, and since this is the first Megaman game I've replayed since finishing Dark Souls, I feel like I'm extra prepared for this type of challenge. I notice level design in ways I wouldn't have before, like when an enemy is first introduced in such a way that I can easily see how it behaves without putting me in an overly dangerous position.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Smeatbass on May 02, 2013, 01:36:43 AM
OK - Here's my thoughts on this matter. May, or may not get mentioned on podcast, but here goes.
I am a champion of Mega Man 2 over 3. Although, I still adore both games. I play all 6 of the originals at least once a year. Have for the past 20 or so years. Kind of a tradition.
Having said that, I played both 2 and 3 this week to not only spark my nostalgia for them, but to give my adult perspective on them.
I'll say this to start - Mega man 2 is all about the bosses, and music. 3 is all about the level design. 3 has great music but it can't hold a candle to 2, which has probably the best music in 8-bit ever (Aside from Mario).
Mega Man 2 is all about the bosses. The 8 robot bosses were all inventive, and mostly had styles I had never seen in games before. The first time that dragon jumped up at me in Dr. Wily stage 1, it scared the crap out of me. All the other bosses Wily's castle were a treat as well, cept for the 2nd one... Meh. I also got freaked when I first saw the giant Robot on the tank in stage 3. I was 8 to remind. Then, of course you had, arguably one of the hardest bosses on game history in stage 4, where it's only weak to Crash Man and if you messed up once, you were dead. Took years for me to get figure him out. Then the final battle, while not mammoth, had its way of making it seem like Wily was an alien, and destroying him felt so satisfying.
Then I move on to 3. The level design is probably the best on the whole series (cept Needle Man - Yuck). All the levels were unique and had a great flow of difficulty, and the areas matched the boss you were heading for. The level design gets a 8 from me. Amazing. Not to say 2 didn't have great level design. Air Man, Bubble Man and Quick Man were perfect. Those lasers in Quick Man made me go rookie in my pants the first time. I still give level design to 3.
However, then you get to the bosses, and all of them were so easy and underwhelming to me. Gemini Man is the only exception. They felt unoriginal, and uninspired. All easy and predictable patterns.
Then you move to the 8 rehashes of Megaman 2 bosses, and they fell flat like a shadow of what they once were. There was no strategy cause you were max powered by this point. Whereas when you fought them in 2, you had to figure out the best way to destroy them.
Now we move on to Proto Man. An absolute waste until the very end. What the hell was his point???
Of course there's the slide, which was a cheap way to introduce new paths and make things "easier". Another waste.
Then, Rush, while cool cosmetically, served the same purpose as the items in 2, they just decided to give it a character. I'll give him a pass.
You then get to Wily Castle. What a total 180 from the rest of the game. Boring levels, and the bosses were so unforgettable. What was that first boss? Then you have 3 bosses that are remakes from bosses from 1. What a cheap thing to do - Recycle everything they did 2 games prior. Then when you get to Wily, neither form was any challenge. Rush Jet on first form and he's toast, final form, use Shadow Blades under him where he can't hit you, then one Top Spin in the middle and you win? Disappointing. Then they introduce cut scenes - which were cool at the time, but st 10 years old, I didn't care.
I haven't even mentioned the god awful frame rate in it. It's been covered.
To sum, I love 3. It's an amazing marvel for the NES with the best level design in series history for the first half, good music, and cool weapons. It just has serious flaws. They tried to do too much with the NES power I think and it backfired. Bosses were lame and rehashes, and the Wily segments gave me no surprises like 2 did.
2 has better bosses, music and overall balance (If you use the Metal Blade as a counter argument, it's simple, don't do it!).
I will always prefer 2 over 3. Though I love both, I just think 2 has stood the test of time better than 3.
To close, I'll say, if everyone didn't agree with some of what I said, why did they ho back to Mega Man 2 style when they made 9 and 10? Cause that's what most loved more.
Bottom line for me - Mega Man 2 is a solid 9.5 for me even today, Mega Man 3 is modest 8.
That's my opinion. Sorry to bash a game I love, but it gets enough love as it is.
Hope this gets read on podcast, if not, at least I mentioned my reasons.
With that, I'm out. Keep it up RFN :)
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 02, 2013, 01:58:22 AM
I'm a bit surprised people start with Snake Man, he's quite unpredictable and does a lot of damage from running into you. Even with the Shadow Blade I still have some trouble there. That isn't his big weakness, but I do find him easier to deal with than Gemini Man and Needle Man so I'd rather face him without his weakness than those two.
If you stay in the far left corner and jump at the right time, you can completely avoid body hits from Snake Man. He tags the wall and immediately runs back the other way, so it's just a matter of setting up the correct jump arc. Other than that, his snakes are usually avoidable, and these combined effects make it fairly easy to defeat him through attrition, even with the Mega Buster.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on May 02, 2013, 02:50:56 AM
Well, it's Thursday now in my time zone, so this will likely be my last post in this thread.
I was honestly planning on closing out with an analysis on the soundtrack and link that one from Rushjet1 before Johnny beat me to it or just spouting off quirky facts or even post up my playthrough that I recorded via livestream [scrapped that because recording curse decided to find cruel and unusual ways to humiliate me in my 3 or 4 takes I did.]
What I AM going to say is that as much as I complained about dumb things in this game, I enjoyed getting to put it under the microscope and just... appreciate it through trying to practice for such a recorded session. there are spots of really good level design along with the bad spots I mentioned, and I can appreciate what this game tried to do. it's still Mega Man and I will still take it over 95% of the NES Library. Hell, I'll take it over 95% of games in general.
It's still good, and it doesn't piss me off like Mega Man X6 does. >_>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWY5sV2g_fA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWY5sV2g_fA) I guess I can leave this as a final parting gift for funsies. I dunno.
Oh, and thank you, RFN. Thank you for giving me an excuse to play more Mega Man.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Sundoulos on May 02, 2013, 08:25:10 AM
I found time to finish up the game last night. I had not remembered how underwhelming the Dr. Wily stages were in this game, and it is strange the way the game sort of fizzles out by the end. By that time, they put you in short, empty, somewhat lifeless stages without any challenge while simultaneously throwing items at you. It's very strange how most of those final stages are much easier than the Doc Robot stages that immediately precede them. I'm thinking that Dr. Wily had just begun to approach senility at this point.
Also, the bosses of MM3's Wily stages? Completely unmemorable. In Mega Man 2, I still clearly remember the Dragon and the Gutsman Dozer, which were both seemed larger than life and were very visually stunning for the time. Other than the Yellow Devil Mk II, you really don't get that. On the other hand, it was pretty cool that the Yellow Devil and the cloning machines were callbacks to bosses from the original game.
It is a shame why they didn't really at least give much explanation in-game for Protoman's schizophrenic behavior. I think it possibly would have been more effective (or at least made slightly more sense) if they had you fight him a few times over the course of the beginning, and then have him help you (like he did in the original Gemini Man stage) during the Doc Robot stages.
At this point it sounds like I'm down on the game, but I'm not, really. Mega Man 3 is one of my favorite games of all time. They did a great job of making the game a great entry point for the series, since the Robot Masters and their stages were challenging without being frustrating and the slide move made Mega Man far more maneuverable. Looking at Mega Man 1, 2, 3 and 4 as a whole, I'd say that 3 probably has the lowest barrier of entry among them.
Also, the Mega Man 3 is memorable because it influenced so much that came after it, since several of the elements (the slide, Protoman, Rush, Rush's transformations) persisted into the later games. You could even argue that some of the stuff from Mega Man 3 (especially the slide, the ambigious enemy/ally like Protoman, and the animal-themed boss Snakeman) influenced the X series that would come three years later.
As an aside, for years after the first few MMX games (when I still cared about the connections between the various series), I thought for sure that they would reveal that Zero was a refactored Protoman, especially since they strongly hinted that Zero was created by Wily. I'm still a little disappointed they didn't go that route.
Also, thanks for the link to the rushjet1 stuff. I really enjoyed it. I don't know where they rank now, but I think that there is a reason that Mega Man 2 and Mega Man 3 were some of the most remixed games on OCRemix. The chiptune music from this series was steps above and beyond most other game series from the very beginning.
Lasty, I mentioned this in another recent Mega Man-related talkback thread, but I'm still amused whenever I think of Greg Leahy's comparison of Mega Man and Sylar from Heroes during an old episode of RFN. (It's a dated reference by now, but I've never forgotten the comment because I found it so funny.)
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Kwolf on May 02, 2013, 09:51:43 AM
Since it's Thursday morning, thought I would post my final update. Never got around to beating it, the week turned much more busy than I had hoped. I hope to go back and finish though. I ended up going Top - Shadow-Magnet- Spark- Snake. After that I couldn't play much more cause of things going on.
I do have to say I agree with everyone else the slow down was pretty bad in some spots. Yet I honestly used a lot of the slow down to my advantage. Kinda plotting out my moves with it. So it wasn't too bad. I kinda felt like the game, at least what I played was easier than I remember. Might be because I took it a bit slower and tried to learn the patterns, more than I probably did as a kid.
Still really enjoyed playing Mega Man 3. It's also been a blast reading everyone's opinions and experiences. Looking forward to hearing more on RFN.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on May 02, 2013, 11:29:43 AM
So, I've also beaten this game today.
It's a Mega Man game. It's a good one. It's slightly better than some and not as good as others. It introduced a slide which was pretty cool. Proto Man sure is mysterious...ahhhm...what else?...Oh! The music is good...let me see, what else do I have here?...
*flips through Columbo style notepad*
Top spin sucks, blah blah blah, Rush turns into a submarine, the slow down is a bummer...The music is good...Oh, I said that already...ahhhm
Sorry guys, I've still got nothing interesting to say about this game, lol. What can I say? It's a classic Mega Man game. It's still fun, but it really doesn't illicit a strong emotion in me one way or the other.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: tyrian3 on May 02, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
it is hard to make any more comments than the others already (very well) expressed here. I'll add my personal feelings about the game. This game is a big part of my childhood, I played and loved 2 but I've always found 3 better, it was everything I loved from 2 but more and better. Loved the bosses, loved the return of the old ones (I'm a sucker for that kind of things!) and I even loved Protoman. Yes one could argue that there was the opportunity to do more with him but I liked how the game introduced us to this misterious new character and even developed a story in a very 8-bit 20 years ago kind of way :) It is a game I still play from start to finish every now and then, I have a lot of nostalgia for it that's true but I also think it made a lot of things right. You could argue about 2 over 3 and viceversa, but I believe it's pretty easy to agree on that period being the pinnacle of the 8-bit Megaman era.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Mop it up on May 02, 2013, 07:47:49 PM
My path forward has always been Top Man > Shadow Man > Spark Man > Magnet Man > Hard Man > Snake Man (beat him with the Mega Buster) > Gemini Man > Needle Man.
The downside to this is that you get Rush Jet after beating Needle Man,
Unless you exploit the glitch to get Rush Jet after Shadow Man, which is what I always do.
But Top Man's power is probably the most frustrating ability this side of the Charge Kick considering you never know when it's going to make contact. In the final form of Wily, I spent a good 15 minutes dying repeatedly because I was trying to make the jump from the right platform and land Mega Man on top of Wily's sprite.
It's a good thing that Top Spin isn't Wily's only weakness...
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on May 02, 2013, 09:28:28 PM
It's a Mega Man game. It's a good one. It's slightly better than some and not as good as others. It introduced a slide which was pretty cool. Proto Man sure is mysterious...ahhhm...what else?...Oh! The music is good...let me see, what else do I have here?...
*flips through Columbo style notepad*
Top spin sucks, blah blah blah, Rush turns into a submarine, the slow down is a bummer...The music is good...Oh, I said that already...ahhhm
Sorry guys, I've still got nothing interesting to say about this game, lol. What can I say? It's a classic Mega Man game. It's still fun, but it really doesn't illicit a strong emotion in me one way or the other.
Okay, I lied. PixPix, I made a post about how the top Spin is actually pretty awesome. XD seriously, I was trying to make my posts out to help folks like you who needed talking points that AREN'T talked out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPYHstNYOSM
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Shaymin on May 02, 2013, 09:41:14 PM
It is a shame why they didn't really at least give much explanation in-game for Protoman's schizophrenic behavior. I think it possibly would have been more effective (or at least made slightly more sense) if they had you fight him a few times over the course of the beginning, and then have him help you (like he did in the original Gemini Man stage) during the Doc Robot stages.
There's a very brief stage before you go to Wily's castle where you have the final fight, and he's called "Break Man" there.
Fighting him = Break Man Gemini Man stage = Protoman
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 03, 2013, 04:56:13 AM
Meh, I prefer Mega Man 4. It has better music, better stage design, more creative Robot Masters (Skull Man), and more polished play mechanics.
And I'm serious about Mega Man 3 having a mediocre soundtrack. The actual compositions are decent, but the music has a weird "tinny" and metallic sound, a complete departure from Mega Man 2's music.
Last but not least - Whoever designed the Mega Buster sound effects after Mega Man 2 needs his ears checked. It's quite possibly the most grating sound of any NES game.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Sundoulos on May 03, 2013, 08:19:05 AM
And I'm serious about Mega Man 3 having a mediocre soundtrack. The actual compositions are decent, but the music has a weird "tinny" and metallic sound, a complete departure from Mega Man 2's music.
I'd have to agree with that. I love the rhythm of the music on most of the stages, but some of the instrument choices in some of MM3's stages are just weird. I actually find some of the music on Hard Man's stage simply grating because of the sounds, but the sound choices in the rushjet1 remix make it pretty catchy. I caught myself humming it at work the other day after listening to it in the background.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: jayar on May 03, 2013, 08:47:08 AM
There's an awful lot of jumping and shooting.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Mop it up on May 03, 2013, 03:48:13 PM
That reminds me, why was Proto Man called Break Man on the select screen? Is that some sort of translation error or was there some other reason behind it?
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 03, 2013, 03:51:30 PM
That reminds me, why was Proto Man called Break Man on the select screen? Is that some sort of translation error or was there some other reason behind it?
Apparently it's supposed to be an alias to hide his identity from Dr. Light.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: Pandareus on May 07, 2013, 10:04:02 AM
Just for the record: I beat the game properly last night, without using the save state. I feel much better about myself now.
Once you know what you're doing, the game isn't that hard. I guess I didn't want to deal with the trial-and-error process of discovery while playing two versions of the game in under a week.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on May 08, 2013, 06:30:36 AM
Thank you, Gui. I have a friend who I got to play Mega Man 2 for the first time out of interest he got from the Archie comic, and he kinda just save stated his way through, and I think he really missed out because he really didn't take time to get intimate with the game in the way game overs and checkpoints would allow one to do so.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: noname2200 on May 10, 2013, 08:05:06 PM
It's definitely a different game with save states. The stages where you fight two of the past Robot Masters become a complete and utter pain in the ass, for starters...
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #27: Mega Man 3 - Official Discussion Thread
Post by: ClexYoshi on June 09, 2013, 04:39:58 PM
