Topic: Official Sales Thread

[Luigi Dude]

Sadly Bayonetta 2 selling just as bad as I predicted.  Nintendo/PG wasted time and money porting over the first game and added a bunch of "Nintendo" costumes which didn't help sales one bit.  The bad news is this is going kill any hope for NA marketing push from Nintendo, it's going be lucky if it sell 1/4 million lifetime.

Who gives a ****.  Unless you're a stockholder of Nintendo or Platinum, we still got a better product as a result.

[NWR_insanolord]

I really don't see how these numbers are as bad as people are making them out to be. 39,000 in the first week for a game on a console in Japan with as low a user base as the Wii U has seems pretty decent. The numbers for the first game quoted above were with probably ten times as many console owners to sell to. I wouldn't read too much into this too soon.

[Ceric]

Bayonette 2 was the top selling new release for this week.

Now let's look who got that last week.

01./00. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS <FTG> (Nintendo) {2014.09.13} (ÂĄ5.616) - 944.644 / NEW
02./00. [PS4] Destiny # <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2014.09.11} (ÂĄ8.532) - 91.277 / NEW
03./00. [PS3] Destiny <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2014.09.11} (ÂĄ8.532) - 49.503 / NEW

Wait is that Smash?  Yeah it is.  A game that has tails.  Look its Destiny as well... Ok well nothing really to speak of there.  Yeah Smash.  Good chance that the majority of people with a WiiU are still wrapped up in that.

[Mop it up]

People are probably waiting until Bayonetta 2 releases on PS360 or PS4one.

Maybe they'll buy the game five years from now when it doesn't happen.

[UncleBob]

The low sales all make sense now...

http://www.gonintendo.com/s/238379-jeanne-gets-a-slight-makeover-in-bayonetta-1-remake

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

Does that make the game more or less feminist now?

[Ian Sane]

I figure we ought to wait for North American sales, the console market that actually matters, before declaring any game a bomb or success.

Games like W101 or Bayonetta 2 are supporting titles with niche appeal.  They're the sort of games that would do fine on a high selling console with a multiple demographics represented in the userbase.  The Wii U's release schedule is unfortunately so thin that any half-decent game is given unrealistic expectations.  Yeah the Wii U needs Bayonetta 2 to be a big hit but that's more a reflection of the desperate situation the Wii U is in then a realistic appraisal of the game's appeal.  If a game is good it is worth having on your system but there are games that move consoles and games that sell to large or niche portions of an established userbase.  Expectations should be planned according to an honest view of which type the game is.

Blame the Mario games that were "supposed" to move consoles for something like W101's failure because that game required a large userbase to carve a niche out of and the big guns failed to provide that.  What percentage of the userbase bought the game?  Apply that percentage to the console sales numbers Nintendo originally hoped for and you'll have a better idea of the true sales potential of that game.

Also there was backlash for Bayonetta 2 being a Wii U exclusive.  That's a knock on how Nintendo has marketed their image in the Wii/Wii U years.  The target audience for Bayonetta 2 wants the game but NOT the console it's on.

[broodwars]

I figure we ought to wait for North American sales, the console market that actually matters, before declaring any game a bomb or success.

Games like W101 or Bayonetta 2 are supporting titles with niche appeal.  They're the sort of games that would do fine on a high selling console with a multiple demographics represented in the userbase.  The Wii U's release schedule is unfortunately so thin that any half-decent game is given unrealistic expectations.  Yeah the Wii U needs Bayonetta 2 to be a big hit but that's more a reflection of the desperate situation the Wii U is in then a realistic appraisal of the game's appeal.  If a game is good it is worth having on your system but there are games that move consoles and games that sell to large or niche portions of an established userbase.  Expectations should be planned according to an honest view of which type the game is.

Blame the Mario games that were "supposed" to move consoles for something like W101's failure because that game required a large userbase to carve a niche out of and the big guns failed to provide that.  What percentage of the userbase bought the game?  Apply that percentage to the console sales numbers Nintendo originally hoped for and you'll have a better idea of the true sales potential of that game.

Also there was backlash for Bayonetta 2 being a Wii U exclusive.  That's a knock on how Nintendo has marketed their image in the Wii/Wii U years.  The target audience for Bayonetta 2 wants the game but NOT the console it's on.

I don't judge Bayonetta 2's appeal because it's on the Wii U, though being on a failed console doesn't help that. I harp on it because Platinum has a longstanding track record of making games the games press likes to slobber over, but no one wants to actually buy.  They're a company that exists based on publisher willingness to throw away money appealing to the niche of the niche, which is why I've always been skeptical of the value of Nintendo picking up Bayonetta 2 in the first place.

[Soren]

Also there was backlash for Bayonetta 2 being a Wii U exclusive.  That's a knock on how Nintendo has marketed their image in the Wii/Wii U years.  The target audience for Bayonetta 2 wants the game but NOT the console it's on.

Beggars can't be choosers tho...

[NWR_insanolord]

Nintendo was the only one willing to fund it. It could either be a Wii U exclusive or not exist at all. People whining about that are idiots.

[Ymeegod]

"Nintendo was the only one willing to fund it."

Sega didn't want to fund it doesn't make it everyone.  PG chose Nintendo largely because of the prior relationship (as clover studios) and the fact Nintendo's console was the market leader last gen.

Bayonetta's IP still belongs to PG and if someone wanted to they could buy PG and "remaster/rename" Bayonetta 2 for other consoles but it's going have to make a decent push in the NA/EU markets for anyone bothering another glance.

----------------------
In case you're saying Bayonetta 2 can't be "ported" because Nintendo published it, all you have to do is look back at Mass Effect--a game funded/published by MS and yet EA still ported it over to the PS3. :0

[Enner]

"Nintendo was the only one willing to fund it."

Sega didn't want to fund it doesn't make it everyone.  PG chose Nintendo largely because of the prior relationship (as clover studios) and the fact Nintendo's console was the market leader last gen.

Bayonetta's IP still belongs to PG and if someone wanted to they could buy PG and "remaster/rename" Bayonetta 2 for other consoles but it's going have to make a decent push in the NA/EU markets for anyone bothering another glance.

----------------------
In case you're saying Bayonetta 2 can't be "ported" because Nintendo published it, all you have to do is look back at Mass Effect--a game funded/published by MS and yet EA still ported it over to the PS3. :0

It took a long time for Mass Effect (1) to be playable on PS3. Also a factor is the license/contract tangle that came when EA bought out BioWare-Pandemic in October 2007 (Mass Effect was released November 2007).

It is unknown how the money and legalese works out for Bayonetta 2, so it is hard to figure a path for the game to be available on other platforms. It will assuredly involve Nintendo being paid. With how Platinum's games performed in the past, I don't think any company is willing to foot that bill.

[NWR_insanolord]

Mass Effect didn't come to PS3 until 5 years after it came out on 360. It seemed pretty clear that's when Microsoft's exclusivity deal expired. Even if it does come to other platforms at some point I'd be very surprised if Nintendo didn't have a similar timed exclusivity deal in place. Either way, I doubt the game will sell well enough to warrant that.

[Mop it up]

I'm honestly surprised Nintendo wanted the game. Maybe they thought it would help their image.

[Ian Sane]

I'm honestly surprised Nintendo wanted the game. Maybe they thought it would help their image.

That is probably exactly it.  However the target audience of Bayonetta doesn't want, sorry to say this, last gen hardware with a novelty controller.  The Wii U is a very conventional follow-up to the Wii, incorporating a very similar design philosophy.  Core gamers don't want another Wii because they associate it with casual gaming.  A Wii U purchase says to Nintendo "yes, continue to make consoles like this".  That's why I haven't bought one.  What game is worth me giving Nintendo that message and effectively encouraging future Wii-like consoles?  I doubt there are that many for which Bayonetta 2 is worth giving Nintendo that message, but if it was on the type of console they do want to own like the PS4 they would buy it.

Of course another explanation could be simply that Bayonetta 1 was on the non-Nintendo consoles.  So someone owning those consoles would expect a sequel to appear on the same consoles or successors to those consoles.  The IP is switching to a Nintendo platform that fans may have never had any intention on buying.  Of course Resident Evil did this and Final Fantasy jumped from Nintendo to Sony and there wasn't the same backlash.

[Adrock]

I figured Nintendo picked up Bayonetta 2 to fill in a gap in their lineup that it doesn't want to make and has no business trying to make itself anyway. I guess one might call that an image concern, but it never seemed like Nintendo was too concerned with its "for everyone" image and that's why, for better or worse, it keeps marching to its own beat. To me, it was more "We don't have an action game; let's get an action game" as opposed to "People think we're for kids/casuals, we need more games with boobs, blood, and guns."

I don't think Nintendo could make a game like Bayonetta which is fine and I'm glad it reached out to a developer who can make that kind of game. Nintendo should stick to making the games it's good at making, or at least the kinds of games that have Nintendo quirkiness. For example, I wouldn't want Nintendo to make a standard squad based shooter. Splatoon, on the other hand, is exactly the kind of shooter I want from Nintendo. At the same time, Nintendo doesn't have a standard squad based shooter itself so maybe it should reach out to a developer who can make an exclusive for Nintendo hardware. I'd really like Nintendo to continue reaching out to developers and bringing more unique content over. Hopefully, Bayonetta 2's sales won't discourage this kind of thing.

[Luigi Dude]

Or maybe Iwata was a huge fan of the first Bayonetta and when he heard Sega canceled the sequel he went, "**** it, I'm going to fund it myself".

[azeke]

"Nintendo was the only one willing to fund it."

Sega didn't want to fund it doesn't make it everyone.  PG chose Nintendo largely because of the prior relationship (as clover studios) and the fact Nintendo's console was the market leader last gen.

Bayonetta's IP still belongs to PG and if someone wanted to they could buy PG and "remaster/rename" Bayonetta 2 for other consoles but it's going have to make a decent push in the NA/EU markets for anyone bothering another glance.

I think I have discussed this many times before but here goes… First of all, we [Platinum Games] are developers and receive support from publishers by making games that they request or suggest.

 As for Bayonetta, we developed the game after signing a deal with SEGA. Later it was decided to also develop the sequel, so we started working on Bayonetta 2.

 When development had progressed to a certain degree, in SEGA’s situation it turned into “This isn’t a good plan”, so development halted temporarily.

 Without funding we didn’t have the possibility to continue development, but we wanted to get this partially developed Bayonetta 2 available to the public one way or another. So we offered it to various publishers, but as it is a big title, we couldn’t find a partner company. Finally, Bayonetta 2 was about to get terminated completely, when…

 Nintendo came in and lent a hand and we were able to restart the development we so desired. Finally the game was released last week, so in five years, we were able to make Bayonetta 2 available to the public.

 Knowing those circumstances, if someone is still angry for heading towards Nintendo, I wonder what’s the reason for that, wouldn’t you tell me in a way that is easy to understand?

 As I have said earlier, if you want Bayonetta 2 on PS4 or Xbox One, how about trying to ask Nintendo… If Nintendo doesn’t say yes, it’s not going to happen… While you’re at it, try asking for Mario and Zelda too…

Also, you're all going around how Bayo 2 is a huge bomb.

It's really not.

For a niche game on weak platform in Japan it did decently. If i am reading this right, according to reports, retailers already sold through the first shipment (first week sellthrough was 50%) and got a bit more.

[Ymeegod]

LOL, MS sold 50% of it's xbox one shipments does that make it an success?  % mean jack in Japan other than you can figure out the total shipment which is roughly 60K which isn't high at all.  Stores won't have to reorder which means not another reprint anytime soon and that's going kill the game in Japan.  Japan has very few "evergreen" titles that are in the "action" genre. 

And Bayonetta 2 isn't just an niche game though, it's budgeted as a "AAA" title (I'm guessing 15-20milion to make).  Why does they matter?  As the publisher Nintendo doesn't really need the money as much as they need a 3rd party title to sell well on the WII U, something to draw back it's lost 3rd party support.  As the developer, Platinum Games need a hit, how many titles did they produce that netted any publisher a profit?  And finally as a gamer like myself, I wanted Bayonetta 2 to sell well for the series to continue of course :0--can't really see that happening at this time (it's all up to the NA/EU market).

[Ian Sane]

I figured Nintendo picked up Bayonetta 2 to fill in a gap in their lineup that it doesn't want to make and has no business trying to make itself anyway. I guess one might call that an image concern, but it never seemed like Nintendo was too concerned with its "for everyone" image and that's why, for better or worse, it keeps marching to its own beat. To me, it was more "We don't have an action game; let's get an action game" as opposed to "People think we're for kids/casuals, we need more games with boobs, blood, and guns."

I don't think Nintendo could make a game like Bayonetta which is fine and I'm glad it reached out to a developer who can make that kind of game. Nintendo should stick to making the games it's good at making, or at least the kinds of games that have Nintendo quirkiness. For example, I wouldn't want Nintendo to make a standard squad based shooter. Splatoon, on the other hand, is exactly the kind of shooter I want from Nintendo. At the same time, Nintendo doesn't have a standard squad based shooter itself so maybe it should reach out to a developer who can make an exclusive for Nintendo hardware. I'd really like Nintendo to continue reaching out to developers and bringing more unique content over. Hopefully, Bayonetta 2's sales won't discourage this kind of thing.

Nintendo's image isn't just based on boobs and guns.  The casual image exists because whole genres are just outright absent or are so poorly represented they might as well be.  Casual focused genres however remain plentiful, cementing the image.  Nintendo publishing a game like Bayonetta is great.  They need more variety and going out and getting it is what I want them to do.  The real issue is "why does Nintendo have to provide this stuff themselves?"  The third party support, as it has been since 1996, is the real issue.  If the support was at an acceptable level then these games would just be there and Nintendo could stick to their usual stuff and it wouldn't matter.

Getting Bayonetta 2 is a Band-Aid on a severed artery.  The real solution would have been to actually take into account third party developer needs when designing their hardware, which they didn't do.  Hell, we have anecdotes from devs that suggests that Nintendo outright IGNORED these concerns because dumb bullshit like power consumption and size were Nintendo's priority.  If their thinking is "well, we're going to make the hardware we want to regardless of what other devs want but if they don't support us we'll just publish a few token 'hardcore' games and we'll be fine" then that explains the Wii U's poor sales.  The N64 situation where they busted their ass to keep the console afloat themselves was making the best of a bad situation created by a huge mistake.  It's not something any sane company would ever want to go through again yet the Wii U was essentially designed like that ON PURPOSE.

[Adrock]

Casual focused genres however remain plentiful, cementing the image.

The rest of your post has been addressed way too many times to even take seriously anymore. This one line though is ridiculous and over-dramatic to the point of hilarity.

[Ceric]

Casual focused genres however remain plentiful, cementing the image.

The rest of your post has been addressed way too many times to even take seriously anymore. This one line though is ridiculous and over-dramatic to the point of hilarity.

Especially considering that on RFN400 Neg-G lamented that there was a quiz show game on WiiU.

[Enner]

Japan numbers!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=904733

Top-seller: [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 109.811 / 1.375.818

Nintendo 3DS/3DS XL sales:    30.439 /  16.239.845

PlayStation Vita/Vita TV sales:  16.716 /   3.270.124

Wii U sales: 9.950 / 1.940.237

PlayStation 4 sales : 8.033 /     726.079

Xbox One sales:  1.113 /     31.116

Media Create Sales: Week 39, 2014 (Sep 22 - Sep 28)

01./01. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS <FTG> (Nintendo) {2014.09.13} (ÂĄ5.616) - 109.811 / 1.375.818 (-66%)
02./00. [PSV] The Legend Of Heroes: Sen no Kiseki II # <RPG> (Nihon Falcom) {2014.09.25} (ÂĄ7.344) - 86.283 / NEW
03./00. [PSV] DanganRonpa: Another Episode <ADV> (Spike Chunsoft) {2014.09.25} (ÂĄ7.020) - 70.596 / NEW
04./02. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch 2: Ganso / Honke <RPG> (Level 5) {2014.07.10} (ÂĄ4.937) - 66.847 / 2.592.438 (+19%)
05./00. [PS3] The Legend Of Heroes: Sen no Kiseki II # <RPG> (Nihon Falcom) {2014.09.25} (ÂĄ8.424) - 65.498 / NEW
06./00. [3DS] Haikyu!! Tsunage! Itadaki no Keshiki!! # <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.09.25} (ÂĄ6.145) - 43.839 / NEW
07./00. [WIU] Fatal Frame: Oracle of the Sodden Raven <ADV> (Nintendo) {2014.09.27} (ÂĄ7.128) - 27.505 / NEW
08./00. [PSV] Dungeon Travelers 2: Ouritsu Tokoshan to Mamono no Fuuin # <RPG> (Aqua Plus) {2014.09.25} (ÂĄ6.264) - 16.460 / NEW
09./00. [PS3] Destiny # <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2014.09.11} (ÂĄ8.532) - 12.095 / 79.990
10./00. [PSP] La Corda d'Oro 3: Another Sky feat. Amane Gakuen # <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) {2014.09.25} (ÂĄ6.264) - 11.005 / NEW
11./05. [3DS] Dragon Quest X Online <RPG> (Square Enix) {2014.09.04} (ÂĄ4.104) - 7.150 / 96.449 (-49%)
12./03. [WIU] Bayonetta 2 <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.09.20} (ÂĄ8.316) - 6.970 / 45.797 (-82%)
13./06. [PS4] Destiny # <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2014.09.11} (ÂĄ8.532) - 6.481 / 110.772 (-50%)
14./08. [PSV] Toukiden: The Age of Demons Extreme # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2014.08.28} (ÂĄ6.264) - 6.220 / 135.476 (-22%)
15./09. [WIU] Mario Kart 8 <RCE> (Nintendo) {2014.05.29} (ÂĄ6.156) - 5.936 / 678.250 (-7%)
16./07. [PS3] Naruto Shippuden: Narutimate Storm Revolution <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.09.11} (ÂĄ7.689) - 5.628 / 55.197 (-40%)
17./00. [PS3] Kamisama to Unmei Kakusei no Cross Thesis # <RPG> (Nippon Ichi Software) {2014.09.25} (ÂĄ7.344) - 5.561 / NEW
18./00. [PSV] Bakumatsu Rock: Ultra Soul # <ADV> (Marvelous) {2014.09.25} (ÂĄ6.264) - 5.551 / NEW
19./11. [3DS] Yoshi's New Island <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.07.24} (ÂĄ4.936) - 4.342 / 188.390 (+0%)
20./10. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (ÂĄ4.800) - 4.082 / 1.278.378 (-10%)

Top 20

3DS - 6
PSV - 5
PS3 - 4
WIU - 3
PS4 - 1
PSP - 1

HARDWARE

Code: [Select]


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 3DS # |     30.439 |     43.592 |    134.244 |  1.577.925 |  3.107.095 |  16.239.845 |
| PSV # |     16.716 |     11.857 |      6.031 |    914.767 |    710.098 |   3.270.124 |
|  WIU  |      9.950 |      8.396 |      5.909 |    414.807 |    457.348 |   1.940.237 |
|  PS4  |      8.033 |      8.939 |            |    726.079 |            |     726.079 |
|  PS3  |      6.026 |      6.078 |     11.382 |    378.938 |    640.141 |  10.088.612 |
|  XB1  |      1.113 |      1.314 |            |     31.116 |            |      31.116 |
|  360  |        143 |        103 |        511 |      8.436 |     19.546 |   1.647.752 |
| PSP # |        102 |         99 |      4.805 |     97.239 |    373.453 |  20.165.648 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ALL  |     72.522 |     80.378 |    163.748 |  4.149.307 |  5.368.589 |  54.109.413 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| PSVTV |        977 |        709 |            |     62.895 |            |     139.139 |
|  PSV  |     15.739 |     11.148 |      6.031 |    851.872 |    710.098 |   3.130.985 |
| 3DSLL |     22.988 |     35.622 |     93.757 |  1.194.287 |  2.111.579 |   6.620.173 |
|  3DS  |      7.451 |      7.970 |     40.487 |    383.638 |    995.516 |   9.619.672 |
|  PSP  |        102 |         99 |      4.805 |     97.239 |    373.453 |  19.989.661 |
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Smash for 3DS stays on top while Yo-kai Watch 2 looks hungry in 4th. 2nd and 3rd belong to Playstation Vita titles of the latest entries to The Legend of Heroes and DanganRonpa series, respectively.

Of interest to Nintendo fans is Fatal Frame V: Oracle of the Sodden Raven which sold 27k for 7th place. According to Famitsu trackers, the game sold 32k with a sell-through percentage in the 60-80% range. Seems like decent sales for the game.

[Ceric]

Yo-Kai Watch beaten.  Now on to Yo-Kai watch 2.

[Ian Sane]

Casual focused genres however remain plentiful, cementing the image.

The rest of your post has been addressed way too many times to even take seriously anymore. This one line though is ridiculous and over-dramatic to the point of hilarity.

The Wii was absolutely full of casual focused fare like Carnival Games and Petz and a million bad Wii Sports knock-offs and stuff like that.  Where do you think this image came from?  You looked at the store shelf and it was just full of games like this while missing most of the major multiplatform games the other consoles had.  "Gee, this is missing a lot of the games I'm interested in and has a lot of these games that are clearly not targeted at me instead."  That creates the image right there.  And now we have the Wii U.  Same naming convention, same basic appearance, same controller focused design - so people aren't going to assume it's more of the same?

Even if you don't agree that the image is justified, does it not exist?  What does it matter at all to Nintendo whether this image is an accurate appraisal of their consoles or not?  The negative impact of the image hurts them either way.  I never thought Nintendo was kiddy during the N64 days but I sure as hell recognized that the image was there and was damaging.  I figure Nintendo is at least somewhat aware of this and that's why they nabbed up Bayonetta 2.  It's just not a big enough gesture to really change anything.