Topic: What COULD (have) save(d) the Wii U?

[Evan_B]

So as I'm sure we've all noticed, Nintendo is banking hard on Splatoon renewing interest in the Wii U, with a heavy marketing focus and bundles abound. But the game is is riddled with poor design choices and an unappealing art style despite being a marked departure from what the company is known for. Likewise, XCX and Devil's Third look to be on track for release before the end of the year but they're both niche titles that probably won't do well or attract a new audience. Catering to Platinum fans hasn't helped, and the Wii U is already clogged with 2D platformers, so I doubt Wooly World will make much of a splash.

What COULD Nintendo do to turn this situation around? Amiibo are selling out but that doesn't mean Wii U's are flying off the shelves with them. What game would make non-believers sit back and say "maybe I should give this a try"? Opinions are always welcome, but I'd also like to think of the broader audience as well. Splatoon is different, but it's still very Nintendo- in other words, archaic, but most likely polished. What kind of game does the Wii U need to sway it's chances in the market? The obvious answer would be third party support, but what sort? What would be a must-have for the masses? A must-have for you?

[NWR_insanolord]

Nothing's going to save the Wii U at this point. Even if Nintendo hadn't played all their cards at last year's E3 and third parties inexplicably all jumped back onboard, it's too late to make a huge difference now.

I think things like Splatoon could cushion the fall, though. The Wii U has a really good library of games at this point, and if they can continue offering things there aren't real analogs for on other platforms, that combined with a price cut could get some people to bite.

Like the whole "Wii60" idea from the last gen, Nintendo offering a good selection of things you won't find elsewhere could sell some people on it as a second console.

[Evan_B]

Duly noted. 2016 will likely be the Wii Us last year so I've changed the title to reflect that.

[Adrock]

I don't agree at all with your assessment of Splatoon. I really like the art style and design choices (lack of online voice chat notwithstanding). It's a shooter that's very different from all the other shooters on other consoles, and one I can probably actually play since it's third person. Different strokes, I guess.

What could have saved Wii U is the same thing that can save NX: collectively making the best gaming experience for consumers and third parties because Nintendo itself can make great software on anything so it should focus outside of itself. Nintendo can't just throw the highest spec hardware together because that isn't smart. Developers may rejoice, but if it's too expensive, consumers will refuse to buy it. Look at 3DS. Nintendo asked for feedback from third parties (good) then priced the hardware beyond what most people felt was acceptable (bad). Ultimately, Nintendo should get feedback and release hardware that is beneficial to all parties. Communication is key.

Nintendo got all the basics wrong with Wii U, things the company has been getting right for decades. It lacked first party games and the system software was just flat-out awful so it was slow and not user friendly. A first world problem for sure but a problem nonetheless. I'd like see a modern console be capable for going from off to the main menu to the start screen in a game in 10 seconds or less.

Sadly, it took Nintendo like a year and a half to fix. Wii U started to be a good console after Mario Kart 8 and a couple major operating system updates were released. That is way too late. Even when it was clear Wii U was stumbling, Nintendo had no sense of urgency. Logically, it should always operate with a sense of urgency because of how easy it is to fall behind in this industry and how difficult it is to catch up (so difficult that companies seem to bide their time until the next hardware cycle begins). I don't mean to say Nintendo should rush its games. Rather, for example, perhaps the Aonuma's Zelda team shouldn't have spent a year porting Wind Waker. Outsource it to a capable developer, keep an eye on that team's progress, and focus on getting the new Zelda out in the timelinest fashion because that new Zelda is the important one.

Summary
1. Communicate
2. Get the basics right
3. Have a sense of urgency

[lolmonade]

Splatoon seems like something perfect for the F2P model, fairly generic characters with an interesting co-op shooter concept.  If they had a good enough install base of the Wii U, I think it'd be the perfect opportunity for them to push-install the game to your Wii U to entice you, and offer alternate character models, costumes, other cosmetic changes to the game as micro transactions.  I hope I hear differently after launch, but current info on it makes it difficult to see how much value I'd get out of the game.  I'd be much more likely to buy it if there was an easy way to try it out first to  see if the game is better than I expect.


Wii U is beyond "saving" at this point.  Nintendo has produced some of their best games in a while on the Wii U, and that hasn't caught them up to the competition.  Nintendo's in a strange position.  The Wii was hugely successful because it deviated from the competition and sparked people's interest in motion control with a very successful proof of concept (Wii Sports).  Wii U tried to be different by the gamepad, but by the time it released, tablets & touchscreen smart phones are ubiquitous, so while Nintendo may have seen it as a way to extend the success of their DS line of handhelds, I think many others saw it as "oh, they're aping off the success of iPad games.


If they're going to continue their trend of deviation from the competition, they need to create a value proposition to all gamers, not just Nintendo enthusiasts.  I think Wii U shows us how Nintendo's systems do now with just core Nintendo fans buying-in, which is probably a very concerning thing to Nintendo.  And that's the challenge I don't have an answer to, otherwise I'd be approaching Nintendo looking for a job.

[BranDonk Kong]

Splatoon will sell miserably even thought it looks pretty cool. It's a squirt gun FPS. I don't think there's anything Nintendo could have done, other than releasing the console several years earlier.

[broodwars]

To add on to what Adrock said (because he mostly nailed it), to me the key thing Nintendo didn't do was prepare to make HD games. They openly stated early in the Wii U's lifespan that 1st party games were taking longer to make because they weren't used to making HD games and weren't prepared for the kind of resources and time it takes to make them. They also didn't expand their 1st party studios so they had the manpower to support the Wii U by themselves, if need be (like Sony did with the early years of the PS3). Finally, they once again basically ignored 3rd parties and made no attempt to court them, so when the sales dried up so did the 3rd party support.

[Triforce Hermit]

More multiplayer games. The only console that doesn't require a stupid online pass and there is very little that takes advantage of that. Its a waste of potential. Sure Splatoon, Xenoblade, and Devil's Third will take advantage of it, but that is too little to late. A huge portion of the gaming community loves multiplayer. Nintendo isn't taking enough advantage of that and they don't have enough notable games for their online. Wii U had the potential to become a primary console, but instead people see it as a secondary because they want multiplayer and they have to look elsewhere.

[ShyGuy]

The Wii U had MULTIPLE software title stumbles in the first year of its life. If those had went right, not to mention the EA 'taking there toys and going home' that seemed to happen, Wii U would be in a different position now.

I talked about it back in July 2013! http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=42192.0

[Nile Boogie Returns]

"Proper planning prevents piss poor performance!"

Nintendo could have saved the Wii U with 4GB of RAM. To be more specific:
Underestimating the the difficulty in producing HD games, Designing a most inefficient OS and cheeping out on the specs while not showing what the Gamepad was truly useful for. 


With that being said, its still a better pound for pound console than the other 2 nextgen systems but suspect that margin to be closed by summers end.


The Name didn't help either. Didn't bother me none but alotta folks were confuzzled.

[Luigi Dude]

It also helps not to completely take away hype from you're biggest launch title by releasing a similar game just 3 months earlier.  Actually that's been the biggest problem for the Wii U in general, the majority of it's biggest games are having similar games released earlier on the much cheaper and popular 3DS.  The Wii U's biggest competition hasn't been the Playstation or Xbox, it's been the 3DS.  Since Nintendo's main audience is kids and casuals who don't mind playing on handhelds, they don't exactly have a compelling reason to spend hundreds of dollars more to buy a Wii U just to get similar experiences.

I mean think about it, if the GBA was capable of releasing the same type of 3D games that the Gamecube could, the Gamecube probably would have done Wii U level numbers.  At least back then, more Nintendo fans had to buy the home console since that was the system for the 3D Nintendo games because the handheld only had 2D.  But now, the handheld is getting almost as many 3D games as the home console which is taking away a lot of their home consoles appeal.

Yeah now the Wii U has been getting more unique software but as everyone has already said it's to late.  Nintendo needs to make sure the next home console gets a lot more unique first party titles from the start to really separate itself.

[ThePerm]

i kinda have a feeling Splatoon will do better than we all think. Its one of those games someones going to bring to a party and then it becomes popular like smash bros.

[Mop it up]

Honestly, I feel Nintendo have made so many mistakes with the Wii U, that there was and still is no saving it. The only way Nintendo could have done better is if they made an entirely different system with different choices. Wii U was never a good product and is selling as such.

That said, I don't feel like the PS4 and XBONE should be selling well either.

Also, the OP is way too harsh on Splatoon. The game looks good to me.

[ShyGuy]

Luigi Dude, you make a googe point about the 3DS. That is why I think the software is going to be unified between console and portable next time around. I don't think NX is going to be a hybrid anymore, because Nintendo is going to want to sell two devices with the same libraries, like the iPhone and the iPad.

[Adrock]

I don't think NX is going to be a hybrid anymore, because Nintendo is going to want to sell two devices with the same libraries, like the iPhone and the iPad.

I've been meaning to start a new thread entirely around this concept. A hybrid paints Nintendo into a corner and forces it to make compromises it may not want to make. A console and a handheld that play the same games makes the most sense for Nintendo and solves a big problem: supporting two platforms. Scalable engines and DLC make this much easier for the company to go down this route. I think Nintendo would still prefer to sell two Mario Karts or two Super Smash Bros. to people, but it's getting harder to justify from both a development and consumer perspective. With the blurring of console and handheld games over the past 10 years or so, I feel like this is the best case scenario.

[nickmitch]

I think making a system with built-in compromises is a bad idea.  It's been holding them back this gen, and it won't be a good way to kick off a new system.

[Spak-Spang]

Compromises always exist.  You have to decide if the advancement you want to pursue is worth the compromise.  For the Wii the technology a new concept, and it was better for Nintendo to compromise on specs just in case the system's motion controls are not a bigger seller.  That gamble paid off for Nintendo in spades...and looking back, Nintendo could have had a more powerful system. 

Now, the Wii U came along and Nintendo needed to make compromises again...this game the compromises were for the actual technology being used not just for the gamble of whether the gimmick would work.  Unfortunately the gimmick didn't catch on as quickly and the compromises crippled the system. 

In the end, the system failed for several reasons, but that being said, none of the reasons it failed is because of poor games.  The Wii U has a very strong library of Nintendo published games...perhaps their best games in years, and IF Nintendo continues to release great games, the library will just get more compelling as it ages.  I see the Wii U really being the Dreamcast console.  It is a console that never caught on but has some of the best games that fans really remember and cherish. 

The question I have is if the Wii U console ends early, will Nintendo re-release those games on another console?  Or will it be backwards compatible or will some of the best Nintendo games of 2 generations be locked away on an unpopular system?   

[Adrock]

I think making a system with built-in compromises is a bad idea.  It's been holding them back this gen, and it won't be a good way to kick off a new system.

In such a scenario, I think this carries the least amount of compromises for a company that wants to continue selling two pieces of hardware as it tackles different markets. I'd expect the console to be much more powerful than the handheld, like its always been. The console would play most if not all the games. There would likely be instances in which developers may choose to go console only if it wants/needs the extra power. Some games won't make a lot of sense on the handheld (e.g. Wii Sports) while parts of others won't (Palutena's Temple in Super Smash Bros.). For a good portion of the generation, this may work because it's kind of how it's working now. 360 and PS3 are still getting ports. If Nintendo releases a console and handheld that are a generation apart, this may not be too farfetched. Virtual Console and most indie games would easily play on both. Like I said in another post, "Imagine if Nintendo could use the same emulator on the successors of both Wii U and 3DS."

The question I have is if the Wii U console ends early, will Nintendo re-release those games on another console?  Or will it be backwards compatible or will some of the best Nintendo games of 2 generations be locked away on an unpopular system?

Based on what Nintendo has been saying over the past couple years, it wants to make porting easier. I'd be surprised if Nintendo's console was hardware backwards compatible because I see it moving away from PowerPC and it would have to include the hardware to make this possible. If Nintendo goes the same library on console/handheld route, I'd imagine it'd be forced to drop discs in favor of cards as digital downloads continue to become more popular.

[NWR_insanolord]

That plan gives them most of the advantages of the hybrid concept without some of the biggest drawbacks. They simplify development across platforms, give developers a wider user base to go after, without having to make the hardware cuts necessary to allow the one hybrid system to be portable. If they start from that, make an effort to involve third parties in the process of designing the hardware, and don't launch it as late in the cycle as they did with Wii U, they might have something.

[nickmitch]

Compromises always exist.  You have to decide if the advancement you want to pursue is worth the compromise.

Compromises on the Wii hurt Nintendo on the Wii U.  A non-HD system that gen poorly prepared them for having an HD console this gen.  Compromises on the Wii U are hurting the Wii U now.  There's no telling what the total effects will be going forward.

In the hybrid scenario, are we making a console that isn't as powerful as it could be, so that it can be portable?  Or are we making a handheld that's not-quite-that portable (e.g., is too bulky or has a short battery life)?  What kind of cost effects does this have on the storage medium? Disks? Carts?  Almost nobody is going to carry full sized CDs, but how much would full-sized costs?  Going digital only?  Are retailers still going to want to give you shelf space?

There's compromise everywhere.  And while it's true that it'll always be there, there's some that Nintendo shouldn't have room for next time around.

[ShyGuy]

I think if you have the right hardware and software, you can scale decently.

[Soren]

Compromises always exist.  You have to decide if the advancement you want to pursue is worth the compromise.

In the hybrid scenario, are we making a console that isn't as powerful as it could be, so that it can be portable?  Or are we making a handheld that's not-quite-that portable (e.g., is too bulky or has a short battery life)?  What kind of cost effects does this have on the storage medium? Disks? Carts?  Almost nobody is going to carry full sized CDs, but how much would full-sized costs?  Going digital only?  Are retailers still going to want to give you shelf space?

No. You're making an OS that's compatible across all platforms, hopefully cutting development costs and being able to scale performance to specific targets with ease. The console is still a console, and ditto the handheld, but they all exists in the same space, regardless of whether they use discs, carts, cards or digital media to store the software.

[Evan_B]

i kinda have a feeling Splatoon will do better than we all think. Its one of those games someones going to bring to a party and then it becomes popular like smash bros.

Impossible, since co-op is split-screen only and nothing like multiplayer. Also, I don't think it's necessary to defend my viewpoint on Splatoon, but I will anyway: Nintendo's first foray features no friend matchmaking, no custom rule sets, no voice chat, already-confirmed DLC and gated Amiibo content, and a decidedly in-Nintendo aesthetic outside of having colors. It's a novel concept but delivered with mediocrity, likely a result of the game being rushed to have a title for May.

I do agree with the 3DS competition- most games are getting sequels on Wii U and that has lessened their impact. However, I would also say that the majority of Nintendo's exciting releases for the console didn't land until way after they were announced too.

[Spak-Spang]

Compromises always exist.  You have to decide if the advancement you want to pursue is worth the compromise.

Compromises on the Wii hurt Nintendo on the Wii U.  A non-HD system that gen poorly prepared them for having an HD console this gen.  Compromises on the Wii U are hurting the Wii U now.  There's no telling what the total effects will be going forward.

In the hybrid scenario, are we making a console that isn't as powerful as it could be, so that it can be portable?  Or are we making a handheld that's not-quite-that portable (e.g., is too bulky or has a short battery life)?  What kind of cost effects does this have on the storage medium? Disks? Carts?  Almost nobody is going to carry full sized CDs, but how much would full-sized costs?  Going digital only?  Are retailers still going to want to give you shelf space?

There's compromise everywhere.  And while it's true that it'll always be there, there's some that Nintendo shouldn't have room for next time around.

The Wii was not the problem with gearing up to make HD games.  If Nintendo were smart they could have had teams working on HD preparation awhile ago.  Whatever happened to them designing models that would be ready for dropping into games?  They should have used the Wii generation as a time to spend prepping their development teams for HD, but they didn't.  The Wii could have been SD and bought Nintendo the time necessary to properly prepare for a true HD generation and market.  It was not the Wii it was bad management and poor vision for future generations and game development.

[ThePerm]

yeah the whole "we weren't ready for hd" thing is a crock of ****. No excuses should be made. These are technical people, they should be capable of doing hd. Its harder to streamline your flow for more limited content than to work with higher powered content. There is a problem with management, where they aren't hiring enough people, projects are falling behind, and are not complete on time. If 3 or 4 really good games need to be made per year than they need to be ready every year. If you think about it Nintendo was a lot better at supplying games for wii than wii u. Twilight Princess came out with wii u launch, mario galaxy 1 and 2 became available, metroid was there, mario kart.

on the other hand people are being extra harsh right now. I'm kinda happy with the new Mario Kart DLC, Splatoon is on its way, and Xenosaga looks amazing. Zelda will be out next year, theres a star fox on the way. What type of surprises can we expect at e3?

Wii U will be year 4 next year, and that is as long as console needs to be out. Comparing it to Nintendo's other consoles, it is similar to gamecube in a lot of ways. Gamecube had better third party support. On the other had despite this, I actually bought a lot of third party wii u games. The wii u at least started with better support.

Moving on might be the best thing Nintendo can do. If i were in charge, i would keep things simple. I would release a console with better graphics than ps4 and xbox one. I would keep the controller the same, I wouldnt change anything there. I would continue to support backwards compatability. Id extend it to gamecube of course. One thing Nintendo would want to do is release some sort of controller/handheld hybrid. Do the scalability thing. Keeping it simple would be the way yo go. I think for the most part Nintendo did everything right except getting games on the system. Nintendo needs to make sure there are lots and lots of games on the system.

e3 predictions: Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 hd. Unlike Wind Waker Mario Galaxy is already gorgeous and all they need to do is bump up the resolution.

if there was a mario galaxy 3 it would probably be on nx ready for launch.  The whole mario 3dland/world stuff never appealed to me.