Author Topic: Casual Encounter  (Read 6743 times)

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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Casual Encounter
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2012, 04:58:45 PM »
@Luigi Dude

I'm with you about the Wii having a great selection of games, despite the widespread misconception that it doesn't. But I wonder if you over-value what Wii Fit U will do. If the different SKUs rumor is true, then it's likely we'll see a Wii Fit U bundle announced tomorrow, but I wonder if the strength of the brand hasn't weakened since Wii Fit Plus. Like Neal pointed out, there are a bevy of exercise games available now, from Kinect to iPhone, which replicate or improve upon Fit's offerings. Moreover, I think Wii Fit was a perfect storm; Wii consoles were in a crazy amount of households already, and it had huge mainstream buzz (Oprah!). I really don't think that's going to happen again.

While that might end up true, you have to look at things from Nintendo's perspective.  The Wii Fit balance board bundles sold 37 million units, and considering it was something that was more expensive then a regular game, I imagine Nintendo was very impressed with the sales.  In comparison Wii Sports Resort's sales which include standalone and Wii hardware bundles are currently at 30 million.

Yes, everything you've said about Wii Fit U might end up being true, but right now to Nintendo, Wii Fit is the more popular series.  From a pure business standpoint, Nintendo feels getting the new Wii Fit out first on the Wii U is more important then a new Wii Sports.  It could come back to hurt them, but it's makes sense why Nintendo is currently doing what they're doing.  Of course considering there was only a one year gap between Wii Sports and Wii Fit in Japan, I fully expect a Wii Sports U game to come out Fall 2013 anyway so there won't be that long a wait in the Wii U's life before a new Wii Sports hit the system.  Considering the 720/PS4 will more then likely hit stores around the same time frame, I fully expect Wii Sports U to be Nintendo's big fall casual game to counter any casual games Microsoft and Sony might try to use to sell their new systems.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Casual Encounter
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2012, 05:22:30 PM »
The Wii's whole design is casual focused.  From a hardware perspective it is practically a re-released Gamecube only now with online features (that SHOULD have been offered on the Cube in the first place) and motion control.  When they introduced the remote all they talked about was how accessible it was and how the traditional controller was so intimidating and confusing and how this TV remote design was good because TV remotes are something everyone is confortable with.  They whole system was designed to get people who don't play games to buy the system.  It's a non-gamer system.  If they tried to sell it to just the then pre-existing videogame market they would have gotten creamed.  So much of the appeal relied on the target market being ignorant that Nintendo was essentially refurbing last gen hardware.  Even the launch lineup relies on ignorance with a Zelda game originally designed for and available for the Gamecube (though delayed a month so that the suckers don't see it on the store shelves and thus get wise to the con).

Nintendo probably did not want to exclude core gamers or get branded as the "casual system".  I think they went for an "everyone" approach.  The problem is that stuff for "everyone" is usually more for the "lowest common denominator" and that's why teens and young adults weren't interested in Nintendo's "kiddy" games in the past and core gamers aren't interested in their "casual" games today.

The only first party Wii title that earnestly comes across as solely for core gamers is Metroid Prime 3.  In everything else the motion control appears to exist in hope of making the game more accessible to casuals.  All the waggle nonsense comes from the theory that motion control is less intimidating and more inviting and that casuals and non-gamers will be drawn to it.  Even something like Skyward Sword bases its design on the hope that sword swinging will expand the Zelda audience.  Metroid Prime 3 is rare in that the design seems to be to use motion control to innovate in a core game.  It makes no effort to be accessible to the inexperienced.  On the other side you have something like DKC Returns which clearly has the design of a core game but is hurt by casual-targetted controls.  Aside from waggle it also has the NES style control layout that Nintendo got a hard-on for because they figured it would attract lapsed gamers.  This doesn't mean all Wii games are casual games but the constant forced usage of waggle is to accomodate any casuals that end up playing.  They try to be "casual friendly" (super guide is another good example of this).

Nintendo probably did not expect third parties to fill the Wii library with shovelware.  They probably didn't think the huge hardware gap would completely kill core game third party support (Nintendo, being extremely arrogant, probably thought third parties would switch to the Wii to use motion control).  They were totally caught off guard by the backlash of the infamous Wii Music E3 and when talking about the Wii U have talked a lot about the Wii being the "casual system" as not being the intention.  But the whole design of the Wii was so focused on attracting the blue ocean crowd that there is no way it could not have ended up that way.  Nintendo assumed that since core gamers COULD enjoy the Wii, they would have no problem with the concessions the Wii made for non-gamers.  That assumption is just very naive.  It's like assuming everyone likes pop music because it's so inoffensive and accessible.

The whole point of the Wii was that there was a big group of people that didn't buy videogames and Nintendo wanted them to become Nintendo customers.  I believe when a rock band does that they call it "selling out".  That's casual.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Casual Encounter
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2012, 05:29:05 PM »
I think Nintendo are in a tough spot, and they are not entirely sure how to market the Wii U during the launch period. They clearly want everyone to buy it, but the everyone approach didn't work as well as they hoped with the Wii, so I think they are starting with a, as they say, "core" approach to the launch so that it doesn't suffer the same issues of the Wii. Plus, they probably don't expect the "casuals" to rush out and buy a new ~$300 system right away, so they figure that a new Wii Sports can wait until after they establish the system for the "core." With the Wii, I believe they underestimated what it would take to draw in the "core" crowd, and they don't want to make that mistake again.

As for the "casual vs hardcore" debate that seems to have developed in the comments, I don't think I'll be touching that. It's always a battle of semantics that never goes anywhere.

Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Casual Encounter
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2012, 06:24:40 PM »
Ian I am just going to say this once and then I am getting out of this topic because I am tired of hearing the same tired arguments.

The Wii is a console for gamers and everyone else as well. The system has a good mix of games for the veteran gamers and the newer gamers. The Wii has the Virtual console and as well Gamecube backwards compatablity.Before you jump on my case about newer systems a so called core gamer if they really wanted could find a backwards compatable system themselves or could gut their gamecube and find a way to get the drive into the newer systems. As well as lots of great games for the system for the so called core gamer. As for the so called casual gamer (who invented these terms?) there is enough on the system and more that they can jump into when they want to.


As for your accusation about the only core game being Metroid Prime 3 that made good use of the controls you clearly haven't played many games this year or many 3rd party games.


As for "selling out" as you say. Selling out would be this still making systems and putting their franchises on competing platforms as a first party. Don't think they are doing that yet.
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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Casual Encounter
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2012, 06:55:38 PM »
Man, Looking at the list Luigi Dude wrote out reminded me how freaking awesome the Wii is/was. I won't regret any complaints of lulls I made (see: mid 2012, 3/4 of 2011, second half of 2008), but on the whole, the Wii had a fantastic set of games out for it.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Casual Encounter
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2012, 04:39:43 AM »
Although I feel like Ian pretty much nailed it, I don't want to let this thread go just yet.
 
It boggles my mind to think that some people believe that Nintendo made any sort of real effort to bring in hardcore gamers to the Wii. Really, it didn't have a chance with the crowd that went to 360/PS3, systems that had way better hardware, supported HD, and had substantial online infrastructure. It was already decided from the start that Wii would not be the go-to system for high profile multi-system games.
 
And yet some people, in this very thread, think that the Wii still served hardcore gamers reasonably well. Maybe we just have different definitions of hardcore, or something? Like people who buy everything Nintendo puts out because they love Nintendo so much? I know there's a lot of those people present in this forum, and that was also me as recently as 5 years ago. Nintendo's first party games are the same games they've always released, but now, just a little easier, and a little dumber. I can't really get any enjoyment out of those if it's like a worse version of something I've already played. They're great for my kids and grandmas or whatever, though. Whatever other second and third party exclusives they secured were few and far between, and listing like 4 games nobody cares about like it magically proves that Nintendo catered to hardcore gamers is absurd. Yes, the Wii had great games for hardcore gamers, but I can count them on one hand. The Wii had a pretty robust library if you like shovelware and low-budget phoned-in spinoff games, I guess?
 
And let's not even talk about downloadable games. No online play, no HD upgrades, no leaderboards. Even PC emulators were better.